Why do some non-cathloics not have Baptism for infants

[JohnDeereFan]

Yes you most certainly did.

Then why aren’t you able to show the alleged “contradiction”?

Again. John3:5 states clearly Amen Amen I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water ANd the spirit.

I agree. However, the “water” here is not baptism.

There is nothing thats say baptism comes from response to being born again. You are adding to the words of scripture.

And you’re taking verses out of context and adding your own meaning to them.

 

[rinnie]

Good luck. Baptism cannot remove sin. The Bible says that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin.

Anybody who thinks that children do not sin has never been to a playground.

Right here. You said that baptism cannot remove sin. You said that the bible says that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin. Yes it does. But how does the blood of Christ cleanse us from sin, Through Baptism.

In Baptism all sins is wiped away. The SAVING WATERS of baptism REMOVE ORIGINAL SIN. Now you tell me how is original sin removed?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Right here. You said that baptism cannot remove sin. You said that the bible says that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin. Yes it does. But how does the blood of Christ cleanse us from sin, Through Baptism.

That’s not a contradiction.

The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. Baptism is just water. It just makes us wet.

In Baptism all sins is wiped away. The SAVING WATERS of baptism REMOVE ORIGINAL SIN. Now you tell me how is original sin removed?

By being born again.

If being baptised removes the sin nature, then why do people still sin after being baptised?

 

[rinnie]

Then why aren’t you able to show the alleged “contradiction”?

I agree. However, the “water” here is not baptism.

And you’re taking verses out of context and adding your own meaning to them.

No I am not taking one verse out of context. I hear it loud and clear. Noone can enter the kingdom of God without being born of Water and Spirit. John 3:5 I showed you that.

When a person is baptised the baptismal WATER which you deny is poured over the candidates head 3 times. I baptise you th ithe Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The water and words symbolize the new life of the Trinity to which one is called by sharing in the death and ressurrection of Christ.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

No I am not taking one verse out of context. I hear it loud and clear. Noone can enter the kingdom of God without being born of Water and Spirit. John 3:5 I showed you that.

You showed me a verse and claimed that it’s about baptism.

 

[ParkerD]

Yes you most certainly did. Again. John3:5 states clearly Amen Amen I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water ANd the spirit.

THere is nothing thats say baptism comes from response to being born again. You are adding to the words of scripture.

Unless you can now show me scripture that states that. I gave you the scripture and it clearly does not!

Hi, Rinnie,
I hope you are doing well. I happened to read this discussion, and wanted to note that John 3:3-7 says

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(Note that “man” or “woman” could be used in those verses, but it would not keep the context to say “baby”.)

Have a good day.

 

[rinnie]

Hi, Rinnie,
I hope you are doing well. I happened to read this discussion, and wanted to note that John 3:3-7 says

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(Note that “man” or “woman” could be used in those verses, but it would not keep the context to say “baby”.)

Okay but lets try this one. Children and a baby are the same. Lets go back to 1 John 3:1 See what love the Father has given us that we should become CHILDREN of God.

The O.T. signs of baptism show us that the water is at once destructive and life-giving. So in baptism there is a destructive process. Those who have been baptized are engrated in the likeness of death. They are buried with him. (Rite of Baptism for Children.) St Paul explains we know that our old self was crufified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be a slavery to sin. Romans6:6 In the water of baptism personal and original sin is washed away so that we can truly say we have died with Christ and were buried with him at the same time.

 

[rinnie]

You showed me a verse and claimed that it’s about baptism.

His name is John. He was a cousin of Jesus. He was baptizing and preaching in the wilderness. You remember him don’t you. He was baptizing people. It was to wash cermonially. The baptism of John the Baptist was an ExTERNAL SIGN of REPENTANCE. THe sacrament washes away any stain of original sin. Remember him.

 

[ParkerD]

Rinnie,
I agree that John 3 has a clear symbolism about becoming “children of God” by being baptized. There are many New Testament verses that talk about becoming “like a little child.” Being “born again” would follow that symbolism of becoming a “new creature in Christ,” leaving behind the old person and becoming a new person who has started over and hence become “like a little child.”

 

[rinnie]

That’s not a contradiction.

The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. Baptism is just water. It just makes us wet.

By being born again.

If being baptised removes the sin nature, then why do people still sin after being baptised?

Because they are human. I BAPTIZE WITH WATER JOHN ANSWERED. Can’t get no more clearer than that.

And then Jesus was Baptized he went up immediately from the WATER. and behold the heavens were opened up and he saw the spirit of God descending on him like a dove. and alighting on him. and behold a voice from heaven saying This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

The Dove reminds us of the dove that Noah sent out after the flood. Like the flood Baptism is a new creation.

Jesus will be the source of the Spirit for all mankind. At his BAPTISM the heavens were opened mt 3:16 the heavens that Adams sin had closed and the waters were sanctified by the descent of Jesus and the SPirit a prelude to the New creation.

 

[swplan76]

Hey JL,
If you were able to read and understand my words, you would be able to see that I am saying, it is **not **magic.

I find your response very difficult to follow, so I am going to leave you with just one more thought.

You seem to be posing yourself as a judge here, “categorizing” me. Be careful of doing that - God is the only one who has authority to judge us. Your job is to be sure that you understand who you are supposed to be - “work out **your **faith with fear and trembling.”

See what James 4 & 5 says about judging others.

Peace,
SW

 

[JohnDeereFan]

His name is John. He was a cousin of Jesus. He was baptizing and preaching in the wilderness. You remember him don’t you.

Your name is rinnie. You’re the one who made that post.

 

[swplan76]

Hi, Rinnie,
I hope you are doing well. I happened to read this discussion, and wanted to note that John 3:3-7 says

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(Note that “man” or “woman” could be used in those verses, but it would not keep the context to say “baby”.)

Have a good day.

There are some issues that, despite logic, people are going to disagree over. Sometimes I wonder if God wants us to have different ways of seeing things, to see if we can love each other regardless of our disagreements.

Its my job to be the person God has called me to be, not to make you or others into the people God is calling me to be.

Peace,
SW

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Because they are human.

I see. So then, people who aren’t baptised aren’t human?

How can they serve sin when they no longer have a sin nature, according to you?

 

[rinnie]

Your name is rinnie. You’re the one who made that post.

Excuse me. You asked me for proof that Baptism was done with Water I showed you. His name was John, John the Baptism. He baptised with water. You said to show you proof, I did.

 

[rinnie]

I see. So then, people who aren’t baptised aren’t human?

How can they serve sin when they no longer have a sin nature, according to you?

What are you talking about. You asked me how can someone be baptised and free from sin and then sin again. I told you because they are only free from original sin. I told you just because you are baptised does not mean you cannot sin again. That is what you said. I said they can sin after baptism simply because they are human and humans do sin.

And where did I ever say that just because the sin of orignal sin is wiped away in baptism that we no longer have a sin nature?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What are you talking about.

Paul says that when we’re born again, our old nature is crucified and we receive a new nature that no longer serves sin.

You claim that people are born again when they’re baptised.

I’m asking you how so many people who have been baptized can continue to serve sin when Paul says we receive a new nature that rebels against sin.

And where did I ever say that just because the sin of orignal sin is wiped away in baptism that we no longer have a sin nature?

Are you familiar with Romans 5-7?

Excuse me. You asked me for proof that Baptism was done with Water I showed you. His name was John, John the Baptism. He baptised with water. You said to show you proof, I did.

What? Where did I ever ask for proof that baptism was done with water?

 

[rinnie]

Paul says that when we’re born again, our old nature is crucified and we receive a new nature that no longer serves sin.

You claim that people are born again when they’re baptised.

I’m asking you how so many people who have been baptized can continue to serve sin when Paul says we receive a new nature that rebels against sin.

Are you familiar with Romans 5-7?

What? Where did I ever ask for proof that baptism was done with water?

quite!

 

[rinnie]

That’s not a contradiction.

The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. Baptism is just water. It just makes us wet.

By being born again.

If being baptised removes the sin nature, then why do people still sin after being baptised?

Right here. Baptism is just water. thats what you said. You said all baptism does is make us wet.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Right here. Baptism is just water. thats what you said. You said all baptism does is make us wet.

Could you please show me where in any of my posts I said that baptism doesn’t involve water or asked you to prove that it does?

And if I don’t believe that baptism involves water, then what in the world am I doing twice a month standing waist deep in water dunking people?