Why do some non-cathloics not have Baptism for infants

[dyluck]

Your reasoning still does not line up with scripture. Just because God knew way ahead of time what would happen, by no means made it happen. God gave us free will. That free will to sin or not to sin was given to us from God.

If God right now gives me a million dollars yes he knows what I will do with it. Not because he makes me do it, because he is God and knows all. God knows a heart. Only God. Just because he know the future does not mean he still does not let me make my own choices.

You ignore the verses I just gave you

What you fail to see is Judas betraying Jesus had nothing to do with fullfilling scripture. Do you not see that if Judas did not betray Jesus that would have been the scripture. God knows everything that we will do, have done because he can see in the future. But just because he can see what has and will happen by no means makes him make it happen. If he was going to take control of our life, why put us here in the first place. He gave us the choice to make.

You do not understand why he put us here. Certianly was not a test.

Again you want scripture 2 ways and that can’t be. We either have free will or we don’t. Either we make our own decisions in life or we do not.

Wrong, I said we have free will. But we are also predestined, elected.

You feel if a person drinks or eats with sinners are to be condemned.

rinnie, i mean no offence, but the next time you miss quote me this conversation is over.
Find and quote for me where I said the person that eats or drinks with sinners are to be condemned… Secondly, I know from your statment you didn’t even crack your bible to read the verse I supplied for that. you would have read SPECIFICALLY
READ IT:
1 Cornthians 5:9-13
9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
**11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother **if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one.
12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

I was always taught that I was not to worry about your sin. I have enough of my own to worry about.

Exactly you were taught… you didn’t look, you didn’t read for yourself what the obligation of brother’s and sisters are in the Lord.

Now getting back tot he Priest do you believe that Jesus had the right to forgive sin? Do you believe that he gave that right to the APostles. Then if you agree with that then how can you deny Apostolic succession. When Jesus said himself I am with you always until the end of the world. Now either the Apostles had the power or they did not. If they had the Power then they also had the power by God to pass on like he told them. So the bottom line here is this. If Jesus had the power to forgive sin. then he had the power to pass it on, and if he had the power to pass it on then the apostles had the power to pass it on also. If you do not agree that it could not be passed on and the Priest does not have the Power then how can you say Jesus did then.

Jesus passed on the Gospel and opened heaven for the first time to mankind. Jesus forgives sins. We can forgive sin committed towards us, but God forgives.

Again your scripture never adds up.

Funny, at least I use scripture for my arguements.

Jesus never gave me a right to follow around sinners and observe what they do. Sure if someone is doing something they you do not agree with you should by all means not join in. But who named you judge. You are giving that name to yourself by feeling that you are obligated to observe and condemn others sin. I am sorry again it contradicts scripture.

Wow… I dont’ think it is even worth continuing banter with you simply because you aren’t reading my posts. I think you are only reading bits and pieces of it because i am not going to repeat myself.

And Mickey is right that scripture you quoted has to do with incest, not judgeing anothers sin. That scripture is telling you incest is wrong and do not have anything to do with it. It is not telling you to put yourself above others condemm them to hell. No one has that right but God.

Oh my goodness… Where does it say insest specifcally. It just lists a pile of other issues… My Goodness you guys aren’t even reading the verse. It is VERY scary people. Immorality is immorality, rivalry, drunkards, swindlers… is that insest too???. If Paul mean insest alone, he would have said Insest. It just baffles me how nobody wants to be accountable. Nobody wants to seek the truth beyond what they have been taught. Nobody wants to read the context of the scripture.

 

[dyluck]

Yes rinnie.

**Practice self-observation. And if you want to benefit yourself and your fellow men, look at your own faults and not those of others. The Lord tells us: “Judge not, that ye be not judged,” condemn not that ye be not condemned. And the Apostle Paul says: "Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? **
St. Arsenios of Paros

“Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?” you obviously didn’t get what that is saying.
There are 2 masters 1 = Sin and the Devil. the Second is Christ and righeousness.
This verse says who is a sinner to judge a beilever or a believer to judge a wordly person.
If it said “Who are you to judge my servent” then it would have been a different story.

Correct again.
We are not here to “follow someone around with a video camera”.

My goodness, well i guess I can’t use examples. Clearly they don’t work to prove my point.

 

[Mickey]

you obviously didn’t get what that is saying.

I understand it. And St Arsenios understands it also.

It is you who are confused.

"My goodness, well i guess I can’t use examples. Clearly they don’t work to prove my point.

Clearly.

 

[dyluck]

On a personal level–I do not know any swindlers, revilers or idolaters. I do not drink, so I do not hang around a social event if drinking begins. Do I know people who are immoral? I cannot say. I suppose they would have to tell me that they are immoral in which case I would attempt to appeal to their conscience. If someone else tells me that my brother is immoral–it is second-hand information.

Do I know covetous people? I do not know. But they would have to tell me that they are covetous in which case I would attempt to appeal to their conscience. If someone else tells me that my brother is covetous–it is second-hand information.

So if someone told you that a fellow brother was covetous, you would not join him as the verse says bring 2 or 3 people to approach them about their sin?
Why do we pick and choose some things we want to believe and some things we don’t want to believe?

I am not here to judge people to hell with fire and brimstone.

Neither am I. Why do you insist on saying this? did you not read my posts either?

It is said that the man who merely looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery in his heart. And that anger is synonymous with murder. So I ask you again.

hmmm, good point. This is just getting silly… Your Catholic friend whom says he believes and loves God and is even teaching children about God. You see he has pictures up on Facebook with him at the bar Getting drunk every weekend. THAT is blatenet and MUST be addressed. Its not judging dude… Someone lusting in their mind, how do I know unless they approach me about it and confide in me as a brother.

Honesly what battle are you fighting.

Do you eat alone?

I guess so…

 

[dyluck]

I understand it. And St Arsenios understands it also.

It is you who are confused.
Clearly.

Ok since we are going to quote brethren of old. Lets go back to St. Augustine.
“de correptione et gratia” (The Treatise on Rebuke and Grace)

I challenge you to read it… Chapters 5 through 9
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf105.xx.viii.html

That way its not coming from a prodestant but from a Catholic.

On free will by the way even Augustine says that definitely a lost person is not free. You are either a slave to sin or righeousness.

God bless.

 

[Mickey]

It is VERY scary people.

Yes. You are frightening me.

Nobody wants to read the context of the scripture.

It is YOU who are not reading in context.

 

[Mickey]

On free will by the way even Augustine says that definitely a lost person is not free.

Huh?

St Augustine wrote against the heresy of Pelagianism. The protestants like to use his refutations to support total depravity.

 

[dyluck]

Right from Catholics

tldm.org/News6/judging.htm

 

[Mickey]

So if someone told you that a fellow brother was covetous, you would not join him…

I am very weary of gossip.

 

[dyluck]

Huh?

St Augustine wrote against the heresy of Pelagianism. The protestants like to use his refutations to support total depravity.

We are totally depraved without God
Read Romans 1:18 on. The fact that God imputed the condemnation of Sin to all mankind is nothing other then the depravity of mankind.

 

[dyluck]

I am very weary of gossip.

Its not gossip if you approach the person. It will either be true or a lie at that point.

 

[Mickey]

This is just getting silly… Your Catholic friend whom says he believes and loves God and is even teaching children about God. You see he has pictures up on Facebook with him at the bar Getting drunk every weekend. THAT is blatenet and MUST be addressed. Its not judging dude.

It is your analogies that are getting silly…dude.

 

[Mickey]

Its not gossip if you approach the person. It will either be true or a lie at that point.

Knock yourself out. Follow others around with your camera. Try to catch them at the bars. Listen to what others say.

And then judge them into hellfire.

If this is how you want to operate—no one can stop you. You have free will.

 

[dyluck]

Knock yourself out. Follow others around with your camera. Try to catch them at the bars. Listen to what others say.

And then judge them into hellfire.

If this is how you want to operate—no one can stop you. You have free will.

God bless you Mickey.

 

[Mickey]

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in a week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as hiseyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Lk. 18:9-14).

 

[Mickey]

God bless you Mickey.

S’nami Boh.

 

[jam070406]

Mickey!
Welcome back.

 

[dyluck]

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in a week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as hiseyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Lk. 18:9-14).

I liked that actually.
I hope you are not implying I am like the pharisee simply because I am trying to prove a point about this subject in particular.

 

[rinnie]

dyluck, I am not trying to upset you, I do not agree with you and how you interpret scripture. Thats all. Scripture cannot contradict scripture. According to your interpretations it does.

You say we have free will. You do not understand that predis. does not take away free will. I go by the teachings of the Church not my own. You are trying to tell us scripture but it does not line up. I have showed you. You get angry with me because I did read the scripture you wrote. I do not agree with what you say, I do agree with Mickey because he goes by the teachings of the Church and it lines up.

Mickey nor I do not have the wisdom nor authority to define scripture. We know that. We know that scripture must tie into tradition and written, Only the church has both, so only the church can understand what God was relaying to us.

Again I understand you are going to refuse to talk to me, but please don’t do it because I did not read your scripture you gave me. I did, I just do not see it as you see it. I see it as the Church teaches it because with the way they teach it, it makes sense. The way you quote it, it does not.

And again I do not understand how you can agree with Apostolic succession, and then not see that the Priest is not frogiving sin on his own authority it was given to him through God. Again we see 2 very different things.

Maybe I misunderstood. Do you agree with apostolic succession. Do you believe that Jesus gave peter and the Apostles the power to forgive sin through the Holy Spirit.

 

[rinnie]

Time to get down to the nitty gritty.

1 cor 1-6 Do you not know that the Holy ones will judge the world.

Rom 2:6 It says quite clear only God can judge mans secrets.

James 4:11-12 Who are we to judge our neighbor

Matthew 7

Romans 14:10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you why do you look down on your brother For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written. As I live says the Lord every knee shall bend before me and every tongue shall give me praise. So that EACH OF US SHALL GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD.

tHEN LET US NO LONGER JUDGE ONE ANOTHER B UT RATHER RESOLVE NEVER TO PUT A STUMBLING BLOCK OF HINDRANCE IN THE WAY OF A BROTHER.

I could go on and on. But it would do me no good. The point is no one is without sin to cast any stones. All we can do is do our best to help a Brother or Sister in need, pray for them when they are in trouble. Sure we can try to talk to them, try to help, but we are in no position to judge them or their sin. Only God knows a heart and God only. It is up to us to defend ourself to one person and one person only. And that is God. ANd it will Be GOD that will render his judgement. I have no right to judge anyone. And I pray I will never do that.