Why do some non-cathloics not have Baptism for infants

[rinnie]

Well Esdra, it is good that you are reading some of the writings of the Early Fathers. If you continue to do this, you will soon learn that Tertullian’s rejection of infant baptism was a departure from the Apostolic practice.

And, if you use your common sense, you will realize that Tertullian could not “reject” something that did not first exist. that is why the assertion that the “theological basis” for infant baptism being laid the next century makes no sense at all.

It was God that laid the theological foundation when He commanded Abraham to circumcize all the male infants born to the chosen people. Circumcision was given as a shadow and a figure of what was to come in the New covenant. Jesus commanded that baptism replaced circumcision as the entrance rite into the Covenant of His Blood.

By the way, it is required here that you cite your sources. You directed me to “read this article”, but you did not tell me where it could be found. I can see that the article is giving misinformation, but I would prefer to consult the source.

Slam and Dunk as usual. On top of your game Guan. Esdra I must say one thing. Trust me on this. I have read many many people on this site. Guan is someone who you can believe on the teachings of the Church. Trust me my friend, very educated in the teachings of the Church. If you just give it a chance you can learn alot from Guan.

Of course you should check out what Guan says also, I am sure Guan would welcome it. But that is how you learn my friend.:thumbsup:

 

[rinnie]

FantonScholar, I must say I disagree with you. I do not see any instruction on Baptism. All I ever saw in SS or OT is you must be Baptised in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I never read for baptism you must repent, believe and be baptised as instruction for baptism.

I was taught in order to have eternal life in Christ you must be repent, believe and be baptised.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

No tricks this time Richard just the straight up truth this time.

Well you seem to have missed the point of my post rinnie, so here it is again

:
Originally Posted by rinnie
In case you do not know they meant the same Exact things. Now if a baby could be circumcised without believing and accepting Jesus Christ as you say, how were they circum. back then. Same meaning Circ, Baptism. I asked you good friend Richard and he never responded. Maybe you could answer it for me.

I think like everyone else here though its going to be a Long wait

You said that you asked me about this baptism circumscision thing and that I never responded. Of coarse that was not true. So, I replied

Up to your old tricks again I see rinnie. Remember this from this thread.

And I included the previous post to prove it. The thing of it is this was at least he second time that I posted this to you rinnie.

:
Ok, let’s examine this a little closer. Who chose the Jews to be “The Chosen People”. Of coarse it was God. Now, this was a commandment of God. God tells Abram that through him all nations will be blessed.Gen 12. This of coarse is a reference to His plan of salvation. Manifest in Jesus Christ. This was God’s decision. There is no faith involved on the part of the people and God in order to identify His chosen people COMMANDS that they be cicumcised.
Ok, fast forward to Jesus time
Jn.3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What Jesus is saying here is that a man an adult of the human race (mankind)must choose to be born again so that he can enter the Kingdom. So, just as circumcision is an outward sign of God’s choice of His people.
Gen.17
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Perhaps You can explain why you say: “I asked you good friend Richard and he never responded.” When I had responded at least twice before. Don’t you see how confusing you make this for people who are reading this when you perpetrate such falsehoods. Not to mention your attempt to discredit me personally. Jesus said in Jn. 8: 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When you speak a falsehood whether or not you intend it, it is a lie and the devil becomes your father. I don’t think that that is what you want so, why do it?

 

[guanophore]

Paul said that the one who is still fleshly cannot please God. If such a person is the enemy of God, enslaved to sin, how is it that he is able to do such a spiritual and pleasing thing as to desire to be baptized?

This is a very good question, and emanates from a false premise that is based upon the heretical doctrines spawned by John Calvin during the Reformation. Calvine, an attorney, deemed that humanity was “totally depraved” by the Fall of Adam. This was a significant departure from the Apostolic Teaching, which is that humans are made in the image and likeness of God, and that each one of us is created to seek after Him, and to find Him.

It is when His grace meets with our faith that salvation is kindled in us. Of ourselves, we can do nothing to please Him, but within us is created the desire to do so.

A person who is enslaved is not deprived of all choices. In fact, the Apostle Paul encouraged slaves to serve their master’s in the love of God. This teaching was a major departure from the Jewish idea that freedom meant a person would not be enslaved. The freedom lies in the ability to serve the master from a loving heart, not one’s legal status as slave or free.

In the same way, though people are slaves to sin until set free by grace, they still have choices, and are able to respond to God’s grace, and God’s call. When one does respond to God’s grace (Latin Catholics call this “prevenient” grace, scripture calls it drawing grace) then their faith mixes with His grace, and they are changed.

Obviously, this is impossible.

No. nothing is impossible for God.

However, I do agree that, if one embraces the heresies of Calvin, then it seems impossible.

Baptism signifies our death to the old way of life and our resurrection to new life in Christ, as Paul uses it in Rom. 6:1-4. Unless we have died to sin, and been raised with Christ in reality prior to our baptism, the symbol becomes meaningless.

This is your personal construct making it meaningless. The Apostles never separated the act of faith that cleanses from the waters of regeneration in which we are washed. That is why, when Peter saw that the house of Cornelius had received the circumcision of the heart without hands by the HS, he declared that they could not be refused baptism. The two go together.

 

[guanophore]

So we see that the position that posits baptism as the means of regeneration and forgiveness ignores the most basic teachings of Scripture regarding man’s inability. Baptismal regenerationists not only make man capable of things he is not, but they reduce God’s grace to a mere aid, and make the death of Christ a theory that is dependent upon man’s act of obedience, rather than the finished and effective work that the Bible teaches it to be (Heb. 10:10-14). Hence, we are justified by God’s action, not by any action of our own. Never is it said that we are justified by baptism.

I can understand why it seems this way to you, since you perceive baptism as something man does, rather than the HS working through the water to effect these changes upon the human soul. Your spiritual ancestors were separated from the Aposotlic teaching on baptism about 500 years ago, and each generation drifts a little further from the Truth that was committed once for all to the Church. The Reformers sought to separate the grace of God from the sacramental life of the Church so as to wrest control from the authorities that they deemed corrupted. They did not understand that it is men who always in need of reform, not doctrine.

This is true whether we are speaking of adult or infant baptism.

I understand why it seems this way to you, since you do not have access to the Teaching of the Apostles.

No disagreement here, except that the washing of the heart takes place prior to Baptism.

In some cases is does, as in the case of the house of Cornelius. However, the two (water and Spirit) are not to be separated.

This, however, is a projection onto the Apostles from later historical developments. Unless you rely strictly on the interpretations of later theologians as some antiquitous basis for what the Apostles taught, you are left with an argument of silence from the Apostles themselves. You are correct in saying that the NT does not give instruction on how children are to be managed, other than being raised in admonishment of the Lord. The only instruction we are given on baptism is repent, believe, and be baptized.

Catholics have no need to project into the past, since we have received the fullness of the Apostolic teaching “whether by word of mouth, or by letter”. These truths have been preserved from the Apostles in the Sacred Traditions of the church, and have not changed since the once for all deposit of faith was made to the Church through the Apostles.

The manner in which the shadow is fulfilled is through regeneration, however, which is the manner by which we enter into the New Covenant. Regeneration is the circumcision made without hands. Baptism is the means by which we visibly enter fellowship with the church, since it demonstrates that regeneration has taken place.

It is true that baptism does demonstrate that we have become members of the Body of Christ, and through it, regeneration has taken place. There is no separation between the water, and the circumcision made without hands. This is the Teaching of the Apostles. when you study your history, you will learn that this was the constant teaching of the Church until the Reformation.

God is able to circumcize the heart regardless of our profession of faith. However, we have no way to recognize that this has taken place unless the individual professes faith in Christ. If an infant is regenerated while still an infant, the child will eventually profess faith in Christ and be baptized to signify that he has been born from above.

This is a Calvanistic statement.

We don't separate, we distinguish. The two are intimately connected with each other inasmuch as our union with Christ has taken place through regeneration, and this is pictured for us through water baptism.

The Apostles taught that baptism was more than a picture, though it is also that. They taught that it is a spiritual event during which permanent changes take place in the human soul.

It might be useful to ask yourself, what advantage might there be for separated the sacrament from the spiritual effects? This will help you to understand why the Reformers abandoned the Apostolic Teaching on this matter.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Now for the rest of your post.

Jesus said that circumcision is the same as baptism

Where does Jesus say this?

but when we are baptised we are circumcised to the heart of Christ. THis is done by the Holy Spirit.

Col.2
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

I think we need to ask ourselves what is meant by the “circumcision of Christ”. It is probably safe to say that the circumcision of Christ" would be the same as the circumcision of the heart. This circumcision of Christ is our choice “in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh”. This of coarse can only be accomplished through the indwelling of God’s Spirit.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
And we have to realise that this is not exclusively a NT concept.
Consider this Deu.30

1And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Notice that all these blessings of the Lord including the circumcision of the heart come about if and only if they “shalt return unto the LORD thy God” This is of coarse a choice. It is a matter of FAITH even in the OT.

Now, compare this to Gen. 17
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

This is not a choice. It is a commandment of God. So altho baptism and circumcision are similar in that they both identify us as God’s chosen people. The circumcision done with hands in the flesh is a command by God to show that it is from this people that God will impliment His plan of salvation. And that of coarse is manifest in the person of Jesus Christ. The circimcision done without hands, circumcision of Christ, of the heart is our choice through the power of the Holy Spirit and as Col2 points out is done before baptism which is the announcement to the world of our circumcision in Christ “in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh”

 

[Richard_Kastner]

By the way Richard what Jesus meant by being born again was this, they did not understand that Baptism is how you are born into the Spirit of Christ. When we are born into this world we are not born with the Holy Spirit pouring into our souls. It is not until we are baptised that we are truly born and alive. The is the difference Richard that you cannot see. To be born into this world is one thing, to be born into Christ is another.

Let me put it to you Richard as simple as I can. To be born in this world is born in the Physical sense, the body can will die to death. But to be born in the Soul is to be born of the Holy Spirit it is not outer it is inner, into the soul. To be baptised is to unite you inner soul with Chirst, that is what gives you eternal life. That can never mean death, unless you sin and refuse to repent and give you life to Christ. So it you die and are in mortal sin, you not only die physically you die spritually also. But if you die in a state of grace you only die in the mortal body, but you spirit you soul will never die, it will live on into eternal life with CHrist.

Ya got it now Richard?

This from my commentary on Jn.v.3

According to Jewish theology, to be born a son of Abraham was almost certainly a guarantee of admission into the kingdom of heaven (ch. 8:33). But in order to be saved, non-Jews must become sons of Abraham by adoption. It would not have startled Nicodemus to hear Jesus affirm that non-Jews must be “born again” in order to “see the kingdom of God,” but the idea that he, a circumspect Jew, stood outside the circle of salvation was a new and disturbing thought. Two and a half years later (ch. 8:39) Jesus explicitly declared that descent from Abraham is to be reckoned by moral likeness rather than by physical relationship. Compare Paul’s teachings on the same point (Rom. 2:28, 29; 9:6, 7; 10:12, 13; Gal. 3:9, 28, 29; etc.). Conversion and birth are alike in that both mark the beginning of new life (see on John 1:13; Rom. 6:3–6; 2 Cor. 5:17; cf. Eph. 4:22–24; Col. 3:9–11).

The born again experience is recieving new life in Jesus through acceptance of His death and resurrection for our sins.

Think about it Richard, why in the O.T were they held in with Abraham. Because they needed Jesus to die to sin and release those souls.

This is an unbiblical fabrication of the CC.

When Jesus died where did he go Richard?

He went into the grave. He died our death that we might have eternal life.Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
and His spirit breath went back to His Father who gave it.

It is by the death of Jesus they we all receive Eternal life of the Soul and can enter heaven. Not until!! Baptism was not possible before the death and res. of Christ!!

Most of this is true. However we will not enter heaven until Jesus returns to take us there.
Jn.14:1-3, 1Cor 15:51-55, 1Thess.14-18

 

[guanophore]

I was baptized into the Catholic Church as an infant. During the time I spent at the local Convent for my early education, I was reminded that as a Catholic I would have to follow the precepts of the Church. So it was an involuntary membership I was saddled with.

It seems that you were not taught your faith very well. Jesus’ yoke is easy,and His burden is light. It is not something a person is “saddled with”, but a great gift of grace. The fact that you describe it this way says volumes about the state of your heart and attitude.

Don't come up with your "baptism to join the body of Christ", that's nonsense. You were baptized into this specific "club" without you even knowing it.

There is only One Body, and One Baptism, and no nonsense there.

Yes, I was baptized into it without knowing it.

No hatred, just discernment of the truth.

Perhaps you are not able to recognize the cynicism in yourself, but it is clear for all of us to see.

"Are properly catechized"? At the time of my baptism I could not read or write and regardless how many classes I attended for instruction on this "serious matter" I couldn't understand a word that the priest spoke.

Infants are baptized upon the faith of their parents and godparents, who pledge to raise them in the faith. perhaps, like me, this did not happen for you.

There are many of us that sat in catechism classes and did not understand what was said.

On baptism? “Chapter 7. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. **But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.” **

I can’t remember if my mother withheld my daily ration of milk, but I doubt it.

Keep reading.

 

[guanophore]

FantonScholar, I must say I disagree with you. I do not see any instruction on Baptism. All I ever saw in SS or OT is you must be Baptised in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I never read for baptism you must repent, believe and be baptised as instruction for baptism.

I was taught in order to have eternal life in Christ you must be repent, believe and be baptised.

This is the instruction that is given to adults, such as those our first Pope addressed in the book of Acts.

2:14 Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
…
[21] And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall
be saved.’
…
[37] Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
[38] And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[39] For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
[40] And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
[41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

 

[guanophore]

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

I think we need to ask ourselves what is meant by the “circumcision of Christ”. It is probably safe to say that the circumcision of Christ" would be the same as the circumcision of the heart.

Yes. This is what the Aposltes taught occurs in baptism.

 This circumcision of Christ is our choice "in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh". This of coarse can only be accomplished through the indwelling of God's Spirit.

It makes a nice story, but does not fit the evidence. First of all, it is an initiation rite, which means it occurs first, before any other practice of the faith. Second, people are unable to “put off teh body of the sins of the flesh”. We are constitutionally incapable of doing so. That is a consequence of our fallen nature.

The HS does not indwell those who have not yet been joined to Christ.

Notice that all these blessings of the Lord including the circumcision of the heart come about if and only if they “shalt return unto the LORD thy God” This is of coarse a choice. It is a matter of FAITH even in the OT.

No arguement there.

This is not a choice. It is a commandment of God. So altho baptism and circumcision are similar in that they both identify us as God’s chosen people. The circumcision done with hands in the flesh is a command by God to show that it is from this people that God will impliment His plan of salvation. And that of coarse is manifest in the person of Jesus Christ.

Are you claiming that Jesus did not command baptism?

The circimcision done without hands, circumcision of Christ, of the heart is our choice through the power of the Holy Spirit and as Col2 points out is done before baptism which is the announcement to the world of our circumcision in Christ “in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh”

There is nothing in Scripture that supports Baptism as an “announcement” of any kind.

The Aposltes taught that it is in baptism that our hearts are circumcised into Christ by the HS.

 

[guanophore]

The born again experience is recieving new life in Jesus through acceptance of His death and resurrection for our sins.

This is what happens in baptism.

This is an unbiblical fabrication of the CC.

Since the CC is not founded on the Bible, that is not a problem for us. However, this Aposotlic Teaching is recorded in the Bible.

The Gates of Heaven were closed upon Adam’s sin. All the righteous dead waited until Christ could open the doors. All those that had not yet heard the gospel were able to hear it from Him after His death:

[18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
[19]** in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, **
[20] who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

1Pet.4
[6] For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God.

It is not a 'fabrication" Richard but part of the Revelation of God in Christ.

He went into the grave. Then will the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
and His spirit breath went back to His Father who gave it.

Well, it appears you are missing some of the biblical evidence there, Richard.

The Apostles taught that Jesus descended to the dead, preached to the souls there, released those from prison who believed, then 40 days later ascended into heaven, taking some of them with Him.

 However we will not enter heaven until Jesus returns to take us there.

Jn.14:1-3, 1Cor 15:51-55, 1Thess.14-18

The Apostles taught that it was up to God who enters heaven,a nd when.

 

[avflf]

It seems that you were not taught your faith very well. Jesus’ yoke is easy,and His burden is light.

So says the book, but like anything written by man it may not reflect truth

It is not something a person is “saddled with”, but a great gift of grace. The fact that you describe it this way says volumes about the state of your heart and attitude.

My heart is fine, my conscience is clear and I did it all my way

There is only One Body, and One Baptism

Unto repentance, full stop

and no nonsense there.

Plenty of it in your way of interpreting baptism

Yes, I was baptized into it without knowing it.

And thus joined the club

Perhaps you are not able to recognize the cynicism in yourself, but it is clear for all of us to see.

Cynicism is not hatred, which is what you inferred in your post

Infants are baptized upon the faith of their parents and godparents, who pledge to raise them in the faith. perhaps, like me, this did not happen for you.

A simple pledge by the parents would be enough without having to get wet and have salt pushed down your throat, forcefully.

There are many of us that sat in catechism classes and did not understand what was said.

I didn’t expect you to understand anything at the age you were baptized. So, to you and me, it was a waste of feed time.

Keep reading.

The quote I provided on baptism is more than sufficient for this discussion

 

[Dokimas]

There is only One Body, and One Baptism, and no nonsense there.

Which one?

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[Dokimas]

This is the instruction that is given to adults, such as those our first Pope addressed in the book of Acts.

2:14 Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
…
[21] And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall
be saved.’
…
[37] Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
[38] And Peter said to them, “Repent, and **be baptized **every one of you **in the name of Jesus Christ **for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[39] For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
[40] And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
[41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Good point: it clearly says here that the promise (repent and be baptized) is for our children and all who are far off. Repent first, baptize after.

Question: are we to be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or in the Name of Jesus Christ?

 

[Esdra]

Good point: it clearly says here that the promise (repent and be baptized) is for our children and all who are far off. Repent first, baptize after.

Question: are we to be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or in the Name of Jesus Christ?

As far as I know - we are all baptised in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Never on Jesus’ name alone.

Have a look here:

Mt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[Dokimas]

As far as I know - we are all baptised in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Never on Jesus’ name alone.

Have a look here:

In Christ,
Esdra

Are you saying Peter, the one know as the first pope, was incorrect?

 

[Esdra]

Are you saying Peter, the one know as the first pope, was incorrect?

Well, first of all, I as Baptist don’t believe in Peter being the first pope. He was “just” a missionar/evangelist, preaching the Gosple, like Paul or John and so on. - And this means that he was also faillable!

Secondly, I think what Jesus said is more important than what Peter said! Because Jesus, as He is God, is indeed infaillable!

Thirdly I have never heard of baptizing on the Name of Christ Jesus alone. Neither in the RCC, nor in any other Christian denomination. Have you?

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[PRmerger]

Baptism in the CC is very much like joining a club.

It’s more like joining a family, actually.

Baptism is our betrothal. The Eucharist is our consummation.

And if you want to get as many paying members as possible you lower the age of admission.

I suppose no one could accuse Catholics, based on infant baptism, of saying one “earns his way into salvation”; for clearly an infant can do nothing to work his way into heaven, yes?

 

[guanophore]

So says the book, but like anything written by man it may not reflect truth

This is certainly true, but fortunately, the Scriptures are written by the Spirit of God, who can speak nothing but Truth.

 My heart is fine, my conscience is clear and I did it all my way

This being the case, why are you here? You seem to be meeting some need inside yourself to mock our faith.

Cynicism is not hatred, which is what you inferred in your post

Something motivates you to come here, and take pot shots at our beliefs. I wonder what that might be? What is it, in you, that has not been resolved that you are trying to work out at our expense?

A simple pledge by the parents would be enough without having to get wet and have salt pushed down your throat, forcefully.

No, it would not. I don’t know anything about any salt in the throat, but I do know that Jesus directed that we must be born again of water and Spirit.

I didn't expect you to understand anything at the age you were baptized. So, to you and me, it was a waste of feed time.

If you wish to deny the gift that was given to you at baptism, that is your choice. I have chosen to embrace mine, which is an expression of the grace of God intended for my salvation.

 

[PRmerger]

Thirdly I have never heard of baptizing on the Name of Christ Jesus alone. Neither in the RCC, nor in any other Christian denomination. Have you?

In Christ,
Esdra

Sadly, yes, there are people who believe, based on the same Scriptures that you and I read, that Jesus wants us to baptize in the name of Jesus only.

They can indeed cite Scripture verses to back up their beliefs.

Here is another example that one cannot assume a Holy Spirit-guided illumination of the Scriptures will necessarily lead to a correct understanding of God’s message.