Why do some non-cathloics not have Baptism for infants

[guanophore]

NO! You are protected against these errors when believing in the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it is the HS who ministers the gift of infallibility.

He will guide you!! And this is true for ALL denominations. Although not all people listened to the Holy Spirit but to themselves (like the Prophet Joseph Smith!)

Yes, the HS does guide, but the gift of infallibilty does not belong to “all denominations”. On the contrary, all the denominations separated themselves from the benefit of this gift by rejecting the Apostolic Authority to whom it was given.

I do agree with you though, most of those in the denominations do not realize that they have been led astray from that which the HS has already revealed to the Church. The HS never leads into division, but always into unity. That is why, when persons and communities become more and more separated from the Apostolic Tradition, they move progressively away from Truth.

 

[guanophore]

Well, here our belief diverges again. We don’t believe that a man is born with the Original Sin because God doesn’t judge us for the sins of our ancestors! By the way: The original Sin was crucified together with Jesus on the Cross!!

You are suffering from a very deficient theology of sin, Esdra. Scripture is clear that we are all born into the effects of Adam’s sin. It is not his actual sin, but the consequence of it.

Yes, Jesus did triumph over original sin on the cross, but not everyone benefits from His victory. Those that do not come to Him in faith to be cleansed will die in their sin.

We all enter into this world condemned to death, because of the fallen state of mankind (original sin).

This is oneo f the main reasons that we do not withhold the cleansing waters of baptism from infants. We know that God desires all to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Sorry to disappoint you, I am not sure what that means!

It means that you lack understanding of the incarnation.

This is not biblical!! Otherwise show me the verse!

"Have you read the book of Revelation recently? Do you know who that Woman is, who gave birth to the One who saved the world from sin?

Do you realize where she is? Where does the Scripture say she is?

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[guanophore]

No, it doesn’t say explicitely in the Holy Bible. BUT one can count, can’t one?

The Bible talkes about god the father. Then in the NT we get to know about Jesus, his son. And we get to know that jesus will send the holy spirit when he has gotten back to his father in heaven (after resurrection)

So, let’S count: 1+1+1 = 3 = TRInity

If this were true, then we would not have sincere persons reading Scripture and failing to see the Trinity. What you don’t seem to understand is that your notion of Trinity came through the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church, just like your bible.

Sacred Tradition = man made. In the bible it says:

In Christ,
Esdra

No Esdra, you are confused. Sacred Tradition means that it came from God. There is no man made part of the Word of God that was given to the Church.

Jesus criticized human traditions (customs) when they interfered with obedience to God.

There is nothing inherintly wrong with human traditions either, so long as they do not pull one away from God.

One of the man made traditions that pull people away from God is Sola Scriptura.

Another is that baptism should be withheld from children, about whom Jesus commanded that we should let them come to Him.

 

[guanophore]

I think,guanophore, we are saying the same thing.

Yes, the HS is the interpreter of Scripture–but how does that work? Does it work by someone reading a passage and, after praying to the HS, deciding it means a particular doctrine? Clearly not! We see the fruits of this paradigm in the thousands of Protestant denominations, each teaching its own version of “HS inspired” doctrines.

That was my point to Esdra.

Yes, I think we are in agreement. It is a good thing to read, and pray to the HS for understanding. However, our interpretations must be informed by what has already been revealed to the Church, and by the Teaching Authority put in place by Christ. I think our separated brethren are big on the first one, but sadly lacking on the other two.

 

[guanophore]

Again I ask. By whose authority do you judge these churches?

Esdra makes this judgement based upon her own authority, which she derives by reading scripture and assuming it.

Catholics make this judgement by the criteria handed down to us by the Apostles. Those ecclesial communities have departed from the Apostolic Teaching, thereby preaching “a different gospel”.

The only source of doctrine and faith is the word of God (the bible). The SDA teaches this.

Then you are judged by your own mouth, because this notion is one of the heresies emanating from the Reformation about 500 years ago. It is not found in any of the Apostolic Teaching, or in the bible itself. It is a man-made tradition that divides the Body of Christ.

 

[Esdra]

Esdra makes this judgement based upon **her **own authority, which **she **derives by reading scripture and assuming it.

Catholics make this judgement by the criteria handed down to us by the Apostles. Those ecclesial communities have departed from the Apostolic Teaching, thereby preaching “a different gospel”.

Then you are judged by your own mouth, because this notion is one of the heresies emanating from the Reformation about 500 years ago. It is not found in any of the Apostolic Teaching, or in the bible itself. It is a man-made tradition that divides the Body of Christ.

One quick note: I AM MALE (Never read the apocryphal book 1 and 2 Esdras? Esdra is another name for Ezra. )

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[Esdra]

If this were true, then we would not have sincere persons reading Scripture and failing to see the Trinity. What you don’t seem to understand is that your notion of Trinity came through the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church, just like your bible.

Okay, let’s go deeper into detail:
You say reading only the Bible will not reveal to you that God the father, Christ Jesus his Son and the Holy Ghost are one, don’t you?

Then please have a look at these verses:

NASB:

John 10:30

30"I and the Father are one."

AND

John 17:11

11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

So we know now: The father and the son are one.

Let’s go on:

NASB:

John 14:16-18

16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

** 17**that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

** 18**"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

So we see, in this verse Jesus says he will talk to his Father in heaven (and we know from the previous verses that Jesus and the Father in Heaven are ONE) so that He may send the Holy Spirist. And Jesus than says “I will come to you” (Verse 18). So this means the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE. Or as Paul states it in Colossians 1:27: " 27…to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory (NASB).

So, 1+1+1 = 3. One good three persons = Trinity.

ESDRA

 

[Esdra]

You are suffering from a very deficient theology of sin, Esdra. Scripture is clear that we are all born into the effects of Adam’s sin. It is not his actual sin, but the consequence of it.

Yes I know. But as soon as we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour (accomplished by baptism) we are also freed not only from our own sins but also from the original Sin!

Yes, Jesus did triumph over original sin on the cross, but not everyone benefits from His victory. Those that do not come to Him in faith to be cleansed will die in their sin.

I know. Of course you have to accept Christ Jesus as your saviour. Otherwise you will die with the original Sin.

We all enter into this world condemned to death, because of the fallen state of mankind (original sin).

Yes, but as soon as we accept Jesus as our Saviour we are freed also from the original Sin.

This is oneo f the main reasons that we do not withhold the cleansing waters of baptism from infants. We know that God desires all to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

It means that you lack understanding of the incarnation.

"Have you read the book of Revelation recently? Do you know who that Woman is, who gave birth to the One who saved the world from sin?

Do you realize where she is? Where does the Scripture say she is?

I am not sure if we are talking about the same woman in Revalation. I had a quick glance in my Concordance and I found only a woman who is referred to be the new City of Jerusalem (like it is often written in the OT. That the bride = Jerusalem and God it’s bridgerom!)
Please write me down the verses you are referring to!

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard what does it mean to be born of water and of the spirit? Does it or does it not mean to be Baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and Of the Holy Spirit.

Yes it does. But Jesus first said Jn.3: 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Being born again means accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in Faith.

When Jesus said except MAN he man a huMAN. I told you this Richard. I told you if Jesus actually Meant only MAN he would exclude Women as you are excluding infants. We have been through this Richard. How many times now?

When Jesus said man He meant an ADULT HUMAN. This is a generic meaning an ADULT of the human race. This would include women, but exclude infants. I have explained this to you many times, but you just don’t seem to get it.

I asked you a million times why could an infant be circumcised in the O.T and not be baptised in the N.T.

And every time you have brought it up, I have answered. Remember this

:
Ok, let’s examine this a little closer. Who chose the Jews to be “The Chosen People”. Of coarse it was God. Now, this was a commandment of God. God tells Abram that through him all nations will be blessed.Gen 12. This of coarse is a reference to His plan of salvation. Manifest in Jesus Christ. This was God’s decision. There is no faith involved on the part of the people and God in order to identify His chosen people COMMANDS that they be cicumcised.
Ok, fast forward to Jesus time
Jn.3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What Jesus is saying here is that a man an adult of the human race (mankind)must choose to be born again so that he can enter the Kingdom. So, just as circumcision is an outward sign of God’s choice of His people.
Gen.17
10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
While circumcision was an outward sign of **God’s choice **to have the Jews as His chosen people. Baptism is an outward sign of **our choice **to be one of God’s people in Christ.

Where does it state that an infant cannot be Baptised. It does not.

It doesn’t state that pigs can’t fly either, that doesn’t mean they can.

Now explain this to me Richard. In Jn 1:11-13 He came to his own home and people received him not. But to all who **received him. who believed **in his name he gave power to become CHILDREN OF GOD. who were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man But of GOD.

Now you claim we must have faith in order to receive him. But you see Richard that is not quite enough now is it?

You quoted it rinnie.
In Jn 1:11-13 He came to his own home and people received him not. But to all who **received him. who believed **in his name he gave power to become CHILDREN OF GOD.

Why in Jn 22:23-24 did John tell us that MANY people received HIM and BELIEVED in his name and yet Jesus did not trust himself to them?

rinnie there is no Jn.22

I will not ask you to answer this Richard I am tired of your twists and turns and games.

What have I twisted rinnie? All that I have done is relate the truth of what scripture says and the truth seems to be frustrating you.

I will let John answer it for you. In Jn 2:25 John answers this question, Jesus withheld his saving grace BECAUSE he knew all men and needed no one to bear witness of man for HE HIMSELF knew what was IN MAN.

I think you are drawing too broad of a conclusion. Jesus withheld Himself from these men because He knew what was in their hearts.

3 Times Jesus uses the word MAN. What Jesus says is that Human nature what was in man by itself is not CAPABLE of attaining ETERNAL LIFE.

Actually He doesn’t say anything about eternal life.

Its not enough to receive and believe,

This is not true.

Jn.3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Psalm 51:17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

even our own best efforts cannot save us.

This is quite true, however it’s not what Jesus was addressing in Jn.2:24

From my commentary
24. Commit himself. Or, “trust himself,” that is, to those who professed to believe in Him (v. 23). He knew that many of those now so eager to acclaim Him would, like the people of Galilee two years later, turn away and walk no more with Him (cf. ch. 6:66). He knew the fickleness of the human heart, and how many fair-weather converts were heedless or hypocritical (see ch. 6:64). See on ch. 7:2–9.

I’m not sure what your point is with all this.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

So what more can a MAN DO? John shows us when he uses the word man 4 TIMES. THere we meet a Man named Nicodemus a renowned teacher of the Jews. John would have us to understand this MAN is EVERYMAN, EVERYONE that lives and breathes.

How in the world do you draw this conclusion? What John would have us believe is that Nicodemus is just who Jesus says he is.
Jn.3:10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Now there is your proof that Baptism will not and could not be held from a infant because it does not have faith. Jesus knows who has faith and who has no faith in them. Because as I have quoted you in scripture Jesus knows what is in every huMAN rather, women, child or Man.

Foregoing your convoluted and completely illogical conclusions. Let me ask you this. Matt.7:13&14 states
Matthew 7:13-14 (King James Version)
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now this clearly states that most people are not going to make it into God’s heavenly kingdom. Jn. 3:16 states that only those that believe in Jesus will enter the heavenly Kingdom. You say and I believe scripture bears this out that Jesus knows the hearts of men. Yet the CC insists on baptising infants who have not professed faith in Jesus (clearly a requirement according to Jn.3:16) and according to Matt.7:13&14 probably will not be in God’s heavenly kingdom. Sort of an exercise in futility, isn’t it?

If you are not a Child of Christ you will not receive the Grace given to you from God at Baptism. Jesus will not trust himself to you. You will be held back this Grace from Christ because you are not one of his Children. Children Richard!

If this is true. Why do it?

 

[rinnie]

Yes it does. But Jesus first said Jn.3: 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Being born again means accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in Faith.

When Jesus said man He meant an ADULT HUMAN. This is a generic meaning an ADULT of the human race. This would include women, but exclude infants. I have explained this to you many times, but you just don’t seem to get it.

And every time you have brought it up, I have answered. Remember this

It doesn’t state that pigs can’t fly either, that doesn’t mean they can.

You quoted it rinnie.
In Jn 1:11-13 He came to his own home and people received him not. But to all who **received him. who believed **in his name he gave power to become CHILDREN OF GOD.

rinnie there is no Jn.22

What have I twisted rinnie? All that I have done is relate the truth of what scripture says and the truth seems to be frustrating you.

I think you are drawing too broad of a conclusion. Jesus withheld Himself from these men because He knew what was in their hearts.

Actually He doesn’t say anything about eternal life.

This is not true.

Jn.3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Psalm 51:17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

This is quite true, however it’s not what Jesus was addressing in Jn.2:24

From my commentary
24. Commit himself. Or, “trust himself,” that is, to those who professed to believe in Him (v. 23). He knew that many of those now so eager to acclaim Him would, like the people of Galilee two years later, turn away and walk no more with Him (cf. ch. 6:66). He knew the fickleness of the human heart, and how many fair-weather converts were heedless or hypocritical (see ch. 6:64). See on ch. 7:2–9.

I’m not sure what your point is with all this.

Hold on there a minute Richard, You said that whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. I agree with that its it written John 3:36. But he also said you must obey. To believe is not near enough.

Now you admit Jesus knows a heart. Niw you cannot understand what I am saying to you in that scripture, you cannot see my Point!

Let me make my point clearer. John 1:12 But those who he gave power to become children to God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor a mans decision but of God. Do you get that Richard, we are chosen by God. To be a true believer and child of God it is not through any of the 3 natural causes but through God who is the immediate cause of the New Spirtual Life. The Holy Spirit is not given to us by our power to believe, to believe comes from the Power of God to believe. So how can you possibley believe and accept Jesus Christ if that Power is not given to you by God. A child does not have to believe in order to be accepted by Christ. If that Child is a child of God and is baptised and the Holy Spirit enters that Childs soul it is because its Gods will. Just like a person older can be baptised and say he believe, and accepts Jesus Christ as his savior. But God knows a older heart just like a younger heart and if that person is not one of Christ’s Children that believers baptism did nothing. God know whats you are and what you will become before you even take that first breath.

Do you not think that the devil believes in Jesus Christ? Please! The devil is probally one of the biggest believers in God. But the devil is not one of Gods Children because he refuses to obey God.

Do you think that every single person that is baptised truly believes in Christ and that baptism is going to save him. You are mistaken.

When we baptise our Children we ask God to accept that Child as a child of God. If that Child is a child of God he is given the power of the Holy Spirit and begins his journey in Christ. We know that God forbid if that child were to be taken, and it is indeed Gods child it is safe with him in heaven. Because we did what is asked, we had that child baptised in Christs name, which is needed to gain entrance to heaven. We did our part, the most important gift we could give, we obeyed Gods command.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

How in the world do you draw this conclusion? What John would have us believe is that Nicodemus is just who Jesus says he is.
Jn.3:10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Foregoing your convoluted and completely illogical conclusions. Let me ask you this. Matt.7:13&14 states
Matthew 7:13-14 (King James Version)
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now this clearly states that most people are not going to make it into God’s heavenly kingdom. Jn. 3:16 states that only those that believe in Jesus will enter the heavenly Kingdom. You say and I believe scripture bears this out that Jesus knows the hearts of men. Yet the CC insists on baptising infants who have not professed faith in Jesus (clearly a requirement according to Jn.3:16) and according to Matt.7:13&14 probably will not be in God’s heavenly kingdom. Sort of an exercise in futility, isn’t it?

[SIGN]If this is true. Why do it?

[/SIGN] Because Jesus commnded it of us. He said in order to enter heaven we must be baptised. You do not have to repent original sin, just be cleansed from it at baptism. You only have to repent actual sin, sin that you have committed. A child does not have any sin at baptism to repent. It only has to be cleansed from original sin at Baptism.

The only person who has to repent at baptism is an older person who has committed sin.

 

[rinnie]

You deny original sin Richard, You deny that we are all brought into this world by sin. But the word of God disagrees with you.

Romans 5:12 ( Its states plain as day that just as sin entered the world thru one man Adam we are all born into sin. This sin is wiped away by Baptism. Just as one mans sin brought us sin through death, and death came to all, Jesus Christ took away death, by his death on the cross. It is by his death on the cross that makes Baptism possible for us all to have life again. Eternal life in Christ.

 

[rinnie]

Origen (post 244AD) The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving baptism also to infants. (commentary on Romans 5, 9)

1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an APPEAL TO GOD FOR A CLEAR CONSCIENCE THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

[SIGN]How in the world do you draw this conclusion? [/SIGN]What John would have us believe is that Nicodemus is just who Jesus says he is.
Jn.3:10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Foregoing your convoluted and completely illogical conclusions. Let me ask you this. Matt.7:13&14 states
Matthew 7:13-14 (King James Version)
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now this clearly states that most people are not going to make it into God’s heavenly kingdom. Jn. 3:16 states that only those that believe in Jesus will enter the heavenly Kingdom. You say and I believe scripture bears this out that Jesus knows the hearts of men. Yet the CC insists on baptising infants who have not professed faith in Jesus (clearly a requirement according to Jn.3:16) and according to Matt.7:13&14 probably will not be in God’s heavenly kingdom. Sort of an exercise in futility, isn’t it?

If this is true. Why do it?

I didn’t draw that conclusion Richard. It is the teaching of the Apostolic Tradition.

 

[rinnie]

Richard you asked me how a man is reborn.

It is quite simple. Baptism

Baptism is greek for immerse, plunge. The water represents the person dying and resurrecting again with Christ. It is a new birth and a new creation. Like a dove a new creation

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard you asked me how a man is reborn.

It is quite simple. Baptism

Baptism is greek for immerse, plunge. The water represents the person dying and resurrecting again with Christ. It is a new birth and a new creation. Like a dove a new creation

Well, I don’t believe I asked you this rinnie. What I did was make a statement. “Being born again means accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in Faith.” This statement is still true. A man is not born again through baptism. He is born again through acceptance of Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Baptism is the outward sign of that acceptance. See what you are doing by requiring infants to be “baptised”. is that you are depriving them of the free will choice to become children of God. When they get old enough you tell them that the reguirements of baptism have been fullfilled when they have not. And the candidate may never accept Jesus because of this false belief. This is the real tragedy of your false belief in salvation through baptism, instead of through the blood of Christ.

 

[rinnie]

Well, I don’t believe I asked you this rinnie. What I did was make a statement. “Being born again means accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in Faith.” This statement is still true. A man is not born again through baptism. He is born again through acceptance of Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Baptism is the outward sign of that acceptance.

And I think I made my point clear also Richard that Jesus knows a heart. And when the Sacrament of Baptism is given to a person, rather child, adult, or teenager God knows the heart of that person.

God does not only know the mind of an adult he knows the mind of us all at all ages. And when the sacrament of Baptism is given and Gods grace is poured into an indivdual only Gods knows who truly has accepted that Grace from him.

Until you can show me the scripture that says that Children cannot accept Jesus Christ in their hearts you have not a leg to stand on. Scripture says that God know the heart of ALL. And all are called to be Baptised in the name of the Trinity.

Scripture is written that ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS we Baptised. Acts 16:15
Mark 10:14 Let the children come to me, for such is the kingdom of heaven.

Lets take Mark for example Richard, Did Jesus say only Children could enter heaven? Of course not, for I do not turn scripture to fit into what I want.

Jesus said Let the Children come to me. Do NOT PREVENT THEM, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen I say to you whoever dos not accept the Kingdom of God like a child will not enter it. Then he embraced them and blessed them placing his hands on them. Sounds like Baptism to me.

As I said Richard God knows a heart. The blind man kept calling out Jesus Son of David have pity on me. Jesus stopped and said what do you want from me. He said to see, Jesus go, your faith has saved you. Jesus knows a heart.

 

[JoellaFaith]

That is pretty sad that they don’t. I have a 7 year old niece who has not been baptized yet. Her older sister however (17yrs old), was baptized Catholic as an infant and I’m her Godmother. Her mother, my sister, left the church right after she baptized her daughter (my niece & Goddaughter).

They say that infants cannot speak for themselves. But that does not hold water according to scripture.

Here the centurion has faith and with his faith the centurion’s servant is healed;
Mt 8:5-13 The Faith of a Centurion
5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him,
6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.
7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.
8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed.
9 For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,
12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

Here the head of the household is the only one that needed to have faith and the whole household is baptized;
Acts 16:30-34 The Philippian Jailer Converted
30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.
34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.
Not only that, what’s to say that there were no infants in the house?! It doesn’t say anywhere that there were no infants &/or children in the house.

So there’s no exuse not to baptize infants.

why would someone leave the church my family bapist and when i was old enough to understand everything i wish i was cathloic but i was born into the wrong family for that

 

[guanophore]

One quick note: I AM MALE (Never read the apocryphal book 1 and 2 Esdras? Esdra is another name for Ezra. )

In Christ,
Esdra

Sorry. The illogical and emotive reasoning threw me off.

Okay, let’s go deeper into detail:
You say reading only the Bible will not reveal to you that God the father, Christ Jesus his Son and the Holy Ghost are one, don’t you?

It reveals that to me because I have already received the Apostolic faith.

Others who have not find a different gospel there.

Then please have a look at these verses:

So we see, in this verse Jesus says he will talk to his Father in heaven (and we know from the previous verses that Jesus and the Father in Heaven are ONE) so that He may send the Holy Spirist. And Jesus than says “I will come to you” (Verse 18). So this means the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE. Or as Paul states it in Colossians 1:27: " 27…to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory (NASB).

So, 1+1+1 = 3. One good three persons = Trinity.

ESDRA

You see Trinity because you have already embraced this tenent of the Apostolic faith. Those who received a different gospel read it differently.

My point is that the text can be interpreted in as many ways as there are belly buttons. People with sincerity read the scriptures and come up with different findings. The scriptures were not intended to be used in separation from the Apostolic faith that produced them. When they are, all kinds of error results.