WHy do some non catholics "fear" Mary?

[traillius]

For lack of better terms, some(not all ) non catholics are “afraid” of the catholic ‘version’ of mary, like she is some demon, or foreign goddess. Please explain. Clearly in the bible she is honored " from now on all generations shall call me blessed " and she was completely obedient with faith. " I am the handmaiden of the lord. Let it be done to me as you say."
Based on the bible then, there is nothing to be afraid of. So why all the anxiety. If Christ is our brother, which is in the bible IIRC, then his mother is our mother. Why do some non catholic christians seem to minimize Mary so much?

 

[NDfan]

For lack of better terms, some(not all ) non catholics are “afraid” of the catholic ‘version’ of mary, like she is some demon, or foreign goddess. Please explain. Clearly in the bible she is honored " from now on all generations shall call me blessed " and she was completely obedient with faith. " I am the handmaiden of the lord. Let it be done to me as you say."
Based on the bible then, there is nothing to be afraid of. So why all the anxiety. If Christ is our brother, which is in the bible IIRC, then his mother is our mother. Why do some non catholic christians seem to minimize Mary so much?

Mary is Jesus’ earthly mother and no where in scripture does it claim that Mary is “our” mother. Christ never makes that claim but does state that anyone who does the will of GOD is HIS mother and HIS brother and HIS sister. After someone calls out blessed is the womb from which you came and the breasts from which you fed Christ says blessed rather are those that hear the word of GOD and obey. Immediately deflecting the focus away from Mary as a person and on Mary as an example of someone who heard the word of GOD and obeyed.

As far as being honored the word used in scripture is Makarizo which is a Greek verb from the word Makarios meaning to call someone blessed. Makarios is used some 44 times to refer to those considered blessed including the poor in spirit, the peacemakers, the merciful etc. etc. Of course anyone who is called by GOD to service is blessed. Scripture never portrays Mary as being honored although we certainly admire and respect her greatly. So for me there is no anxiety nor fear as you state about the Mary of scripture. There is concern for lack of a better word for the position that the Catholic church has elevated Mary to outside of scripture. I don’t minimize her at all but I certainly don’t hold the same view as the Catholic church does.

 

[traillius]

Other things not found in scripture, which make me have concern, for lack of a better term, about our separated brethren.

1. Sola fide
2. Sola scriptura

just to name a few.

It makes me sad, and a little angry, that some protestants object to catholics, and only catholics for "extra biblical " theology, when they themselves practice such theology. But I don’t want to hijack my own thread.

Here is my biblical reason for honoring, not worshipping, Mary.

Mary is Jesus’ Mother
Jesus obeyed all the commandments
therefore Jesus honored his mother under the 4th Commandment
I must be an imitator of Christ.
Therefore I must honor my mother
I am a brother of christ, when I try to do the will of his, and my,father in Heaven.
Therefore, Mary is my mother.
So I must honor Mary.

Therefore, rosary is scriptural, since it honors mary
and the hail mary prayer consists of 2 parts

1. a quotation of scripture
2. Asking my mother mary to pray for me.

The rosary consists of
The apostles creed
The our father
The hail mary
and The gloria
All of which either quote the bible, or completely agree with bibilical theology.

Finally I quote Fr. John Corapi
" you pray to Jesus directly, and I will pray through Mary, his mother, and we will see who gets there first. "

 

[phoenix3212]

Mary is Jesus’ earthly mother and no where in scripture does it claim that Mary is “our” mother. Christ never makes that claim but does state that anyone who does the will of GOD is HIS mother and HIS brother and HIS sister. After someone calls out blessed is the womb from which you came and the breasts from which you fed Christ says blessed rather are those that hear the word of GOD and obey. Immediately deflecting the focus away from Mary as a person and on Mary as an example of someone who heard the word of GOD and obeyed.

As far as being honored the word used in scripture is Makarizo which is a Greek verb from the word Makarios meaning to call someone blessed. Makarios is used some 44 times to refer to those considered blessed including the poor in spirit, the peacemakers, the merciful etc. etc. Of course anyone who is called by GOD to service is blessed. Scripture never portrays Mary as being honored although we certainly admire and respect her greatly. So for me there is no anxiety nor fear as you state about the Mary of scripture. There is concern for lack of a better word for the position that the Catholic church has elevated Mary to outside of scripture. I don’t minimize her at all but I certainly don’t hold the same view as the Catholic church does.

What about this?

"And a great portent appeared in heaven, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . . he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was angry with the Woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:1–2, 5, 17).

Sounds like the mother of all believers to me.

See this: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp

 

[JohnDeereFan]

For lack of better terms, some(not all ) non catholics are “afraid” of the catholic ‘version’ of mary, like she is some demon, or foreign goddess. Please explain. Clearly in the bible she is honored " from now on all generations shall call me blessed " and she was completely obedient with faith. " I am the handmaiden of the lord. Let it be done to me as you say."
Based on the bible then, there is nothing to be afraid of. So why all the anxiety. If Christ is our brother, which is in the bible IIRC, then his mother is our mother. Why do some non catholic christians seem to minimize Mary so much?

I don’t fear her at all. In fact, assuming she’s in Heaven, I look forward to meeting her.

 

[sambos671]

Other things not found in scripture, which make me have concern, for lack of a better term, about our separated brethren.

1. Sola fide
2. Sola scriptura

just to name a few.

It makes me sad, and a little angry, that some protestants object to catholics, and only catholics for "extra biblical " theology, when they themselves practice such theology. But I don’t want to hijack my own thread.

Here is my biblical reason for honoring, not worshipping, Mary.

Mary is Jesus’ Mother
Jesus obeyed all the commandments
therefore Jesus honored his mother under the 4th Commandment
I must be an imitator of Christ.
Therefore I must honor my mother
I am a brother of christ, when I try to do the will of his, and my,father in Heaven.
Therefore, Mary is my mother.
So I must honor Mary.

Therefore, rosary is scriptural, since it honors mary
and the hail mary prayer consists of 2 parts

1. a quotation of scripture
2. Asking my mother mary to pray for me.

The rosary consists of
The apostles creed
The our father
The hail mary
and The gloria
All of which either quote the bible, or completely agree with bibilical theology.

Finally I quote Fr. John Corapi
" you pray to Jesus directly, and I will pray through Mary, his mother, and we will see who gets there first. "

You totally avoid NDFan’s responce and statement which was a good one about some shouting out to Jesus and Jesus’ reply. What do you have to say to that?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Other things not found in scripture, which make me have concern, for lack of a better term, about our separated brethren.

1. Sola fide

Ephesians 2:8-10

1. Sola scriptura

2 TIm 3:15-17.

Mary is Jesus’ Mother
Jesus obeyed all the commandments
therefore Jesus honored his mother under the 4th Commandment
I must be an imitator of Christ.

So why stop there? Why not honor everybody’s mother?

 

[sambos671]

What about this?

"And a great portent appeared in heaven, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . . he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was angry with the Woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:1–2, 5, 17).

Sounds like the mother of all believers to me.

See this: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp

Protestants view this as symbolic of the pre-Christian Church or Faithful Judaism.

 

[traillius]

You totally avoid NDFan’s responce and statement which was a good one about some shouting out to Jesus and Jesus’ reply. What do you have to say to that?

I have to say that Mary heard the word of God and Obeyed." I am the handmaiden of the Lord.Let it be done to me according to your word. " Therefore she is Blessed.

I don’t want to play the scripture address game. Not every single word in the bible is meant to be taken literally, or independently of the whole bible. You can’t compare scripture with scripture. And you can’t ignore thousands of years of “non-biblical” theological works.

 

[traillius]

Protestants view this as symbolic of the pre-Christian Church or Faithful Judaism.

I will view it as representative of the mother of Jesus.

 

[phoenix3212]

I will view it as representative of the mother of Jesus.

Which is a less complicated explanation.

 

[JonNC]

=traillius;5319081]
It makes me sad, and a little angry, that some protestants object to catholics, and only catholics for "extra biblical " theology, when they themselves practice such theology. But I don’t want to hijack my own thread.

You already did. Read some of the comments Lutherans here have made in the past about Calvinism, etc. We’re perfectly happy to object to those who deny the real presence, or infant baptism. And Evangelicals have criticized Lutherans here, too.

Here is my biblical reason for honoring, not worshipping, Mary.

Mary is Jesus’ Mother
Jesus obeyed all the commandments
therefore Jesus honored his mother under the 4th Commandment
I must be an imitator of Christ.
Therefore I must honor my mother
I am a brother of christ, when I try to do the will of his, and my,father in Heaven.
Therefore, Mary is my mother.
So I must honor Mary.

There is no scriptural requirement that we all honor the Blessed Virgin in the same ways. I do think, however, that Christian charity requires that we respect each other’s practices in this area.

Therefore, rosary is scriptural, since it honors mary
and the hail mary prayer consists of 2 parts

1. a quotation of scripture
2. Asking my mother mary to pray for me.

You and I can together exclaim our honor of St. Mary in the first part.
We differ in the practice of intercessory prayer to her, so I respectfully leave the 2nd part to my Catholic siblings.

The rosary consists of
The apostles creed
The our father
The hail mary
and The gloria
All of which either quote the bible, or completely agree with bibilical theology.

The Rosary is a wonderful meditative prayer. Please excuse me if I modify the Hail Mary as above, and exclude the Hail Holy Queen.

Finally I quote Fr. John Corapi
" you pray to Jesus directly, and I will pray through Mary, his mother, and we will see who gets there first.

“The first shall be last, and the last first.” Really, I just pray we all get there.
Jon

 

[Monica4316]

For lack of better terms, some(not all ) non catholics are “afraid” of the catholic ‘version’ of mary, like she is some demon, or foreign goddess. Please explain. Clearly in the bible she is honored " from now on all generations shall call me blessed " and she was completely obedient with faith. " I am the handmaiden of the lord. Let it be done to me as you say."
Based on the bible then, there is nothing to be afraid of. So why all the anxiety. If Christ is our brother, which is in the bible IIRC, then his mother is our mother. Why do some non catholic christians seem to minimize Mary so much?

I don’t know but it’s really heart-breaking isn’t it

Mary is indeed Our Mother, and she is Blessed, and her soul “magnifies the Lord”… that means that if we know her, she can help us know her Son better

I think some people are afraid that there’s a “competition” between Jesus and Mary, that if we give her any attention, it would detract from His glory.

But that is not true, because…

All the honour we give to Our Lady, she gives to God!
and they are always together in Heaven… when we come to Mary, Jesus is right there beside her.
additionally, if we pray to her and are devoted to her, all that would happen is she would lead us closer to her Son!

Ave Maria

 

[Monica4316]

Mary is Jesus’ earthly mother and no where in scripture does it claim that Mary is “our” mother.

Hi, well Jesus gave Mary to us as our Mother when He was on the Cross, and He spoke to the “beloved disciple”. There’s a reason it says “beloved disciple” and not John!

also, if Jesus is the Head of the Church and we are the Body, it would make sense that Mary is the Mother of the Body too.

Mary is not just Jesus’ earthly mother… the early Church defined her as Mother of God, and this was to protect Christ’s divinity. It doesn’t mean that Mary existed before God or that she created the Trinity. It just means that she bore the Word Incarnate in her womb, and since He is both Man and God, we call her the Mother of God
another word for it is the Theotokos, “God bearer”.

To call Mary the Mother of Jesus but not Mother of God, is to imply that His human and divine natures can be separated, but they can not be.

Christ never makes that claim but does state that anyone who does the will of GOD is HIS mother and HIS brother and HIS sister.

Let’s look at the verse in context… I think what He was trying to say is that Mary is blessed not just because she is His biological mother, but also because She perfectly obeyed God’s will. He’s trying to say that it’s not just her position as Mother that is important, but her purity and submission. And of course, He also pointed out that if we do God’s will, we join His family of which Mary is already part (both because she is His Mother, and because of her obedience and love of God).

After someone calls out blessed is the womb from which you came and the breasts from which you fed Christ says blessed rather are those that hear the word of GOD and obey. Immediately deflecting the focus away from Mary as a person and on Mary as an example of someone who heard the word of GOD and obeyed.

Who has EVER heard and obeyed God’s word better than Mary??

None of us…

she was perfect at this. She agreed to the Incarnation… she said, “let it be done to me according to Your word.”

so what Christ is saying is not that Mary is not special, but that she is special for a particular reason… her perfect obedience. Not just because she fed Him.

He is actually honouring Mary here

As far as being honored the word used in scripture is Makarizo which is a Greek verb from the word Makarios meaning to call someone blessed. Makarios is used some 44 times to refer to those considered blessed including the poor in spirit, the peacemakers, the merciful etc. etc. Of course anyone who is called by GOD to service is blessed. Scripture never portrays Mary as being honored although we certainly admire and respect her greatly. So for me there is no anxiety nor fear as you state about the Mary of scripture. There is concern for lack of a better word for the position that the Catholic church has elevated Mary to outside of scripture. I don’t minimize her at all but I certainly don’t hold the same view as the Catholic church does.

yet it does say, she’s blessed among women… so there’s no woman who is more blessed than she.

What about this?

"And a great portent appeared in heaven, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . . he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was angry with the Woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:1–2, 5, 17).

Sounds like the mother of all believers to me.

See this: catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp

I don’t fear her at all. In fact, assuming she’s in Heaven, I look forward to meeting her.

“assuming she’s in Heaven”?

she definitely is if Mary is not in Heaven… what hope is there for any of us.

 

[Angelstar]

So why stop there? Why not honor everybody’s mother?

Why not honor motherhood? Or would you dishonor mothers who are not your own?

But back to the subject of honoring Mary the Mother of Jesus: She was his mother, if not for her obedience to God, we would have no savior. I think that deserves a little bit of honor.

Other than that… Honoring Mary gives glory to God and what He worked through her, His handmaid. Honoring Mary appropriately does not at all distract from the glory we give to God. After all she is quoted in the Bible saying, “My soul magnifies the Lord”, therefore I can only believe that by honoring her we give more glory to God, for what God has done through her is Great.

 

[adowcday]

Let me add my two cents’ worth and offer a brief answer. Nothing earth-shaking here:

(1) Idolatry. Protestants are concerned about violating the first commandment by offering worship to someone who is not God. In this, they would see Mary as the worst case of worship of the saints. They would point to such works as “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis de Montfort as promoting a dedication to Mary that, for a Christian, belongs to Jesus alone. They also point to statues and paintings of Mary that look like idols (May crowning? shudder)

A related concern is that Marian devotion has its roots in pagan goddess worship (e.g., “Queen of Heaven” is a title given to Ishtar and Isis in their cults).

(2) Unbiblical. Protestants are concerned that a duty to show fitting honor to the mother of Jesus has become exaggerated to the extent that some people seem to devote more time and attention to Mary than to Jesus. While there is some biblical basis for Catholic devotion to Mary, the first Christians did not seem to focus much attention on Mary. Moreover, the Catholic Marian dogma of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary are unbiblical, and the more contemporary push to name Mary “co-redemptrix” is not only unbiblical but seems positively heretical to some who fear that Catholics put Mary on an equal footing with Jesus.

Now, I’m a Roman Catholic, and I pray the rosary, etc. I’m just trying to state Protestant objections fairly.

 

[gcnuss]

For lack of better terms, some(not all ) non catholics are “afraid” of the catholic ‘version’ of mary, like she is some demon, or foreign goddess. Please explain. Clearly in the bible she is honored " from now on all generations shall call me blessed " and she was completely obedient with faith. " I am the handmaiden of the lord. Let it be done to me as you say."

First and foremost, I see no reason to be “afraid” of Mary. She is, after all, the theotokos, the God-bearer. There is no doubt that she had a most intimate role in the incarnation, that she was the vessel through which the Word became flesh. For this, she is worthy of great respect and honor. She is, as I have written before, the model of faith and obedience.

As far as the Marian dogmas are concerned, I have no particular reason to reject the Immaculate Conception, her perpetual virginity, and the Assumption. At the same time, if any or all of these were to be proven untrue, it would have no effect on my faith or on my regard for Mary. They are not essential to my belief in our Lord.

Based on the bible then, there is nothing to be afraid of. So why all the anxiety. If Christ is our brother, which is in the bible IIRC, then his mother is our mother.

As far as Christ being our brother, I understand that as coming from having God as our father, not from sharing Mary as our mother. That does not diminish her in my eyes.

Why do some non catholic christians seem to minimize Mary so much?

Finally, I suspect that some of what you perceive as the minimization of Mary is a reaction to non-Catholics’ perceptions that Marian devotions get in the way of seeing Jesus. You may argue to the contrary, but it is a real issue for some.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Why not honor motherhood?

I believe we should honor motherhood, but honoring motherhood as an institution isn’t the same as the Biblical command to honor your mother and father.

But back to the subject of honoring Mary the Mother of Jesus: She was his mother, if not for her obedience to God, we would have no savior.

Really? You think God was unable to make that happen without Mary?

 

[Publisher]

The whole issue for me is that I honor Mary as “the mother of my Lord”. I take her advice very seriously…“do whatever he tells you…”

It’s not that I do not “honor” Mary…I just do not practice Catholic devotion because I am not a Catholic…honor of Mary to the exclusion of Catholic devotion of her is not a lack of honor to Mary…it is simply that I do not practice nor ascribe to the traditions and practices that Catholics do.

As a Friend, it is my deeply held personal belief that I give Mary all the honor that she is due as the mother “of my Lord.”

IF any fear exists, it is not fear in giving Mary the proper honor…but it resides in not giving the proper honor and worship to her Son……so her admonition to “do whatever he tells you”…is first and foremost… I take her admonition very very seriously. To me to take her words seriously IS honor and respect.

 

[Monica4316]

She was his mother, if not for her obedience to God, we would have no savior.

exactly She gave us Jesus!