WHy do some non catholics "fear" Mary?

[curiousgirl26]

I’m not so sure it’s fear. Possibly understanding. Remember that most protestants are sola scriptura and church tradition, for the most part, is lost on them. I know this because this is where I am. Although I did pray the rosary for the first time last week-it was interesting. I just kept thinking that it would be neat for me to focus on a verse or something as I said each “Hail Mary”. I do have to say though that changing my thinking to understanding the devotion to Mary will take some time as I’m okay with most of the other teachings of the Catholic church.
Most protestants are taught that Mary is “worshipped”. However we see no problem in having a cross in our house but a statue of Mary is a big no-no. Go figure. Didn’t think about it until recently.

 

[ScottishColleen]

I’m not so sure it’s fear. Possibly understanding. Remember that most protestants are sola scriptura and church tradition, for the most part, is lost on them. I know this because this is where I am. Although I did pray the rosary for the first time last week-it was interesting. I just kept thinking that it would be neat for me to focus on a verse or something as I said each “Hail Mary”. I do have to say though that changing my thinking to understanding the devotion to Mary will take some time as I’m okay with most of the other teachings of the Catholic church.
Most protestants are taught that Mary is “worshipped”. However we see no problem in having a cross in our house but a statue of Mary is a big no-no. Go figure. Didn’t think about it until recently.

There are Christians, particularly conservative Reformed, that don’t believe in having crosses as well.

 

[Angelstar]

Although I did pray the rosary for the first time last week-it was interesting. I just kept thinking that it would be neat for me to focus on a verse or something as I said each “Hail Mary”.

You can find audio versions of the Scriptural rosary. I have one and I love it because it keeps me focused. After every Hail Mary the audio recites a reading from Scripture.

 

[curiousgirl26]

Neato, they really have audio recording? I’d probably jam out to it in my car. One of the things that drew me to Catholicism was the music.

 

[BernadetteM]

As someone who is becoming Orthodox, I am certainly not “fearing” the Theotokos. In fact, in the Divine Liturgy, we mention her by name over 7 times, most of which saying “Remembering our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God.”

If I were a Protestant that would be more scary to me than going to a Catholic liturgy were she is mentioned once at best.

In the Latin Liturgy Mary is mentioned three times I believe. During the Confession, the Creed and in the Eucharistic prayers. Also on special Holydays she would be mentioned more often. The Mass celebrates Jesus Christ, not his Holy Mother. I think protestants should attend Mass and really listen and read the missal to see that Christ was, is and always will be the center of our worship.

I have read an Orthodox Liturgy before and I recall Mary is mentioned much more than in the Latin Rite Liturgy. I think protestants don’t go after the Orthodox because they have no clue as to what Orthodoxy is. It is foreign to them. You guys are lucky that they more or less ignore you.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[BernadetteM]

Andrew,
I disagree. What you’ve quoted there is a beautiful and proper use of the BVM and saints, as guides for the committed, godly life. I think it is wonderful.
As I recall from the times I’ve gone to Catholic Mass, their mention is a call to her for intercession (correct?). I think for many that would be “scarier”.

Jon

Jon,

You really should attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysotom. The Entrance Prayers are:

O Blessed Theotokos, open the doors of compassion to us whose hope is in you, that we may not perish but be delivered from adversity through you, who are the salvation of the Christian people.

Deem us worthy of mercy, O Theotokos, Fountain of Tenderness, Look on us sinful men and reveal your power as always, for we have put our hope in you. Rejoice, we cry to you, as one did Gabriel, the leader of the bodiless hosts.

She is mentioned also in the actual Liturgy and there are prayers for her intercession.

I really don’t think that there is much difference between what Catholics and Orthodox feel about our Blessed Mother.

You can find this Liturgy on the web.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[JonNC]

Jon,

You really should attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysotom. The Entrance Prayers are:

O Blessed Theotokos, open the doors of compassion to us whose hope is in you, that we may not perish but be delivered from adversity through you, who are the salvation of the Christian people.

Deem us worthy of mercy, O Theotokos, Fountain of Tenderness, Look on us sinful men and reveal your power as always, for we have put our hope in you. Rejoice, we cry to you, as one did Gabriel, the leader of the bodiless hosts.

She is mentioned also in the actual Liturgy and there are prayers for her intercession.

I really don’t think that there is much difference between what Catholics and Orthodox feel about our Blessed Mother.

You can find this Liturgy on the web.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Hi Bernadette,
Yeah, what Andrew quoted was great. What you quote here would give even a Lutheran like
me pause.
Jon

 

[Angelstar]

Neato, they really have audio recording? I’d probably jam out to it in my car. One of the things that drew me to Catholicism was the music.

I’ll see if I can find the link for you to the one that I listen to. They have all the mysteries (sorrowful, joyful, glorious, luminous) there isn’t any music during the rosaries but there is music after the mysteries. I always would fall asleep to the music after I said the rosary at night, very nice indeed.

 

[gcnuss]

O Blessed Theotokos, open the doors of compassion to us whose hope is in you, that we may not perish but be delivered from adversity through you, who are the salvation of the Christian people.

Bernadette,

I have to go along with Jon on this. The bolded phrase above gives me a bit of theological heartburn.

 

[BernadetteM]

Hi Bernadette,
Yeah, what Andrew quoted was great. What you quote here would give even a Lutheran like
me pause.
Jon

Hi Jon,

If you really take a look at what some Orthodox say about the BVM (they have many different liturgies and prayers) although the wording is different the meaning is the same as what Catholics say. I know they have a different way of expressing some doctrines.

I know it is difficult for protestants to understand the feelings that many Catholics have for Mary, but I really feel that the Holy Spirit opens our hearts to who she is and what she means to the Church. It is so hard to explain devotion to her. Just as it is difficult to explain our love for Christ to non Christians.

My daughter’s husband’s father is a Lutheran pastor and except for trying to force my daughter to convert he has been okay with her beliefs and even took a small part in the baptism of her children. Her husband wants nothing to do with any church. He said he had enough of it as a child and youth.

You seem to be very open and a very caring person. I know some Lutherans who are very closed minded, even about other Lutherans of course this is true about all faiths.

I am a convert, although from early childhood I knew that the Catholic Church was the true Church. I would not have been able to articulate it that way when I was only 8, but something inside told me that I wanted to be Catholic. As far as our Blessed Mother my family and I have had personal experiences directly involving Mary. I believe that is because just as many protestants I questioned the Churches teachings at one point. The experiences showed me that the Church was correct. Of course I feel that a relationship with Mary is in a way like one with Jesus, it is personal and we all have our unique relationship with our Lord. Not every Catholic feels close to Mary and not every Christian feels as close to Jesus as others.

As a mother myself I am always there for my children and worry about them so much. This is the way I feel that our Heavenly Mother feels about us. It is really a very personal and emotional subject and one that we all must decide for ourselves.

I appreciate all your (name removed by moderator)ut and respect you for your caring responses.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[peary2]

Why do some CATHOLICS “fear” Mary is my question.

 

[traillius]

Which Catholics are " afraid " of Mary. None that I know of. She still is a human creation of God. We fear only God. And not in the sense of being terrified, rather we fear him justly in reverance and awe of his great mercy. We simply honor Mary because of her special relationship to Jesus as his mother. I know I am more likely to listen to my mother than one of my acquaintances. Jesus, being human in all ways but sin, is the same. He honors his mother, not just because she is his mother, but also because of the 4th commandment. And we do the same. We do not worship mary. Nor is mary co-redemptrix. Mary did not die on the cross. We simply recognize her special relationship with the Son. On a personal note, I would not want to make Jesus angry by ignoring, insulting, or slandering his mother. * shudder * ’ you said WHAT about my mother? "

 

[JonNC]

Hi Jon,

If you really take a look at what some Orthodox say about the BVM (they have many different liturgies and prayers) although the wording is different the meaning is the same as what Catholics say. I know they have a different way of expressing some doctrines.

I know it is difficult for protestants to understand the feelings that many Catholics have for Mary, but I really feel that the Holy Spirit opens our hearts to who she is and what she means to the Church. It is so hard to explain devotion to her. Just as it is difficult to explain our love for Christ to non Christians.

My daughter’s husband’s father is a Lutheran pastor and except for trying to force my daughter to convert he has been okay with her beliefs and even took a small part in the baptism of her children. Her husband wants nothing to do with any church. He said he had enough of it as a child and youth.

You seem to be very open and a very caring person. I know some Lutherans who are very closed minded, even about other Lutherans of course this is true about all faiths.

I am a convert, although from early childhood I knew that the Catholic Church was the true Church. I would not have been able to articulate it that way when I was only 8, but something inside told me that I wanted to be Catholic. As far as our Blessed Mother my family and I have had personal experiences directly involving Mary. I believe that is because just as many protestants I questioned the Churches teachings at one point. The experiences showed me that the Church was correct. Of course I feel that a relationship with Mary is in a way like one with Jesus, it is personal and we all have our unique relationship with our Lord. Not every Catholic feels close to Mary and not every Christian feels as close to Jesus as others.

As a mother myself I am always there for my children and worry about them so much. This is the way I feel that our Heavenly Mother feels about us. It is really a very personal and emotional subject and one that we all must decide for ourselves.

I appreciate all your (name removed by moderator)ut and respect you for your caring responses.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Bernadette,
Thanks for your kind words. Like your son-in-law, I am a preacher’s kid, and my brother sort of took the same track as he did. Hopefully, they’ll both find their way back.

Thanks again,
Jon

 

[Monica4316]

I can understand and respect that. I am stating what some of us have seen out of certain people, not all Catholics…and some of it appears to go beyond honoring Mary’s role. Also, not all apparitions have been approved by the Church.

I know what you mean, cause I used to really think that way too… I think that some of the devotions that seem rather “over the top” to people, - they’re less doctrinal and more just how an expression of how these Catholics feel about Our Lady

about the apparitions, I meant the approved ones like Lourdes or Fatima. There are many unapproved ones as well and the Catholic Church warns us about staying away from those, cause usually the reason they’re not approved is because there’s a theological problem with them. (so in that case they’re not from God.)

 

[Monica4316]

Hi Jon,

If you really take a look at what some Orthodox say about the BVM (they have many different liturgies and prayers) although the wording is different the meaning is the same as what Catholics say. I know they have a different way of expressing some doctrines.

I know it is difficult for protestants to understand the feelings that many Catholics have for Mary, but I really feel that the Holy Spirit opens our hearts to who she is and what she means to the Church. It is so hard to explain devotion to her. Just as it is difficult to explain our love for Christ to non Christians.

My daughter’s husband’s father is a Lutheran pastor and except for trying to force my daughter to convert he has been okay with her beliefs and even took a small part in the baptism of her children. Her husband wants nothing to do with any church. He said he had enough of it as a child and youth.

You seem to be very open and a very caring person. I know some Lutherans who are very closed minded, even about other Lutherans of course this is true about all faiths.

I am a convert, although from early childhood I knew that the Catholic Church was the true Church. I would not have been able to articulate it that way when I was only 8, but something inside told me that I wanted to be Catholic. As far as our Blessed Mother my family and I have had personal experiences directly involving Mary. I believe that is because just as many protestants I questioned the Churches teachings at one point. The experiences showed me that the Church was correct. Of course I feel that a relationship with Mary is in a way like one with Jesus, it is personal and we all have our unique relationship with our Lord. Not every Catholic feels close to Mary and not every Christian feels as close to Jesus as others.

As a mother myself I am always there for my children and worry about them so much. This is the way I feel that our Heavenly Mother feels about us. It is really a very personal and emotional subject and one that we all must decide for ourselves.

I appreciate all your (name removed by moderator)ut and respect you for your caring responses.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

great post

Which Catholics are " afraid " of Mary. None that I know of.

I think some Catholics are sort of uncomfortable still with devotion to Mary… maybe they’re afraid of it seeming like worship…? (though it is not)

She still is a human creation of God. We fear only God. And not in the sense of being terrified, rather we fear him justly in reverance and awe of his great mercy. We simply honor Mary because of her special relationship to Jesus as his mother. I know I am more likely to listen to my mother than one of my acquaintances. Jesus, being human in all ways but sin, is the same. He honors his mother, not just because she is his mother, but also because of the 4th commandment. And we do the same. We do not worship mary. Nor is mary co-redemptrix. Mary did not die on the cross. We simply recognize her special relationship with the Son. On a personal note, I would not want to make Jesus angry by ignoring, insulting, or slandering his mother. * shudder * ’ you said WHAT about my mother? "

I agree with almost everything you said, but co-redemptrix actually does not mean that she did any ‘redeeming’ that’s because it’s a Latin word, not an English word. It doesn’t mean “co-redeemer”, but “woman with the Redeemer”.
here’s an article that really helped me:
davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_mediatrix_co-redemptrix.htm

God bless

 

[wmscott]

Ephesians 2:8-10

2 TIm 3:15-17.

So why stop there? Why not honor everybody’s mother?

Some suggested reading for you since you cherry picked one verse out of many for each subject.

SOLA FIDE
Jas 2:14-26 - what good is faith w/o works? Heb 10:26 - must avoid sin. Jas 5:20 - “earning” forgiveness.
Lk 6:46; Mt 7:21; Mt 19:16-21; Jn 5:29 - must do will of God. 1 Cor 9:27 - “buffet my body …”
Phil 2:12; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 2:6-10, 13, 3:31; Mt 25:32-46; Gal 6:6-10; Rev 20:12 - works have merit.
1 Jn 2:3-4; 1 Jn 3:24; 1 Jn 5:3 - keep commandments.

SALVATION, FAITH AND WORKS
FAITH ALONE OR FAITH PLUS WORKS?
Jam 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Jam 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love. 1 Cor 13:2 - faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15 - if you love me, keep my commandments. Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments. 1Tim 5:8 he who doesn’t provide for family worse than unbeliever.

SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION
BIBLE ALONE OR BIBLE PLUS TRADITION?
1Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you. 2Thess 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter. 2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition. Jn 21:25 - not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture. Mk 13:31 - heaven & earth shall pass away, but my word won’t. Acts 20;35 - Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels. 2Tim 1:13 - follow my sound words; guard the truth
2Tim2:2 - what you heard entrust to faithful men. 2Pet 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation. 2Pet 3:15-16 - Paul’s letters can be difficult to grasp & interpret. 1Pet 1:25 - God’s eternal word = word preached to you. Rom 10:17 - faith come from what is heard. 1Cor 15:1-2 - being saved if you hold fast to the word I preached. Mk 16:15 - go to the whole world, proclaim gospel to every creature
Mt 23:2-3 - chair of Moses; observe whatever they tell you Tradition Condemned?.
1Cor 11:2 - commends them for following Apostolic tradition. 2Thess 2:15 - commands them to keep traditions. 2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition

SOLA SCRIPTURA
Jn 21:25 - not everything is in the Bible. 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 2:2; 1 Cor 11:2; 1 Thess 2:13 - Paul speaks of oral tradition. Acts 2:42 - early Christians followed apostolic tradition. 2 Pet 3:16 - Bible hard to understand, get distorted. 2 Jn 1:12; 3 Jn 1:13-14 - more oral tradition. 2 Pet 1:20-21 - against personal interpretation. Acts 8:31; Heb 5:12 - guidance needed to interpret scriptures.

 

[BRB1]

What about this?

a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . .
Sounds like the mother of all believers to me.

]

Except for fact other OT scriptures say mother of Christ would not suffer birth pains. This allows some to say the Rev. passage clouds the matter.

 

[moondweller]

Here is my biblical reason for honoring, not worshipping, Mary.

Mary is Jesus’ Mother
Jesus obeyed all the commandments
therefore Jesus honored his mother under the 4th Commandment

But the 4th Commandment says nothing about exalting one’s mother. That Jesus never did. Jesus never exalted His mother to the positions Catholics have bestowed on her down through the centuries.

I must be an imitator of Christ.
Therefore I must honor my mother
I am a brother of christ, when I try to do the will of his, and my,father in Heaven.
Therefore, Mary is my mother.
So I must honor Mary.

Christ called all who believe in Him His “brothers” in a spiritual sense. That does not make Mary your mother. Else my mother is also your mother, and yours mine. Which would also pertain to all who qualify as Jesus’ brothers. IOW, you’d have millions of mothers.

Finally I quote Fr. John Corapi
" you pray to Jesus directly, and I will pray through Mary, his mother, and we will see who gets there first. "

There is absolutely no objective proof that Mary has the power to hear your, or anyone’s, prayers. Our instruction is to pray to the Father in Christ’s name. The one who does the latter will be heard, and the prayer will be granted if it’s according to God’s will.

I don’t at all “fear” Mary. I do abhor what Catholics have made her into. I love her as a sister in Christ and look forward to one day meeting her. We’ll have eternity to get to know each other.

 

[traillius]

There is no ‘objective’ proof of anything in christianity or the bible. Its all a matter of faith expressing itself through love.( i.e. works ). I will love the trinity and be part of the greater family of God. Father, Mother, brothers, sisters, and family love. Mock if you want, I will be thusly mocked for doing what is right.

• hate me if you want to, love me if you can.

• Toby Keith

 

[JonNC]

.There is absolutely no objective proof that Mary has the power to hear your, or anyone’s, prayers. Our instruction is to pray to the Father in Christ’s name. The one who does the latter will be heard, and the prayer will be granted if it’s according to God’s will.

You are exactly right, that we have no proof that the Church Triumphant hears our individual prayers, and intercedes in our behalf.
I don’t think, however, that this practice by Catholics and Orthodox is in replacement of praying to God in Christ’s name. It is, instead, the same as you or I asking fellow members of the Church Militant to offer prayers of intercession for us. We do not differ in our beliefs regarding prayer to God. We differ in belief regarding which members of the communion of saints can respond to our specific requests for intercession.

Jon