why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[SteveGC]

Very well put.

I have to admit that, although I would have described myself as at simmering heat, rather than lukewarm, for many years of my Faith journey, it was largely the example of converts such as Scott Hahn that brought home to me the fact that newbies knew more about the Faith than I did.

That set me off and, studying Scripture and reading apologetics and theological books has put within me a hunger to really know God in a deeper way. The more I learn, the more I love, and the more love I have to give to others every day.

Amen to that. Let us pray that we all can emulate this type of zeal for our faith, for the benefit of the lukewarm and fallen-away within our Church…deliver unto them a saintly kick in the pants…so that some day the world will know once and for all that we do indeed, and have always, known Jesus to His fullest.

 

[kalt]

Shakespeare prayed to quite ordinary people.

Judges in Europe pray to their ‘learned counsel’ and vice versa.

You see, the verb ‘Pray’ means to ask.

Only in very recent times have certain people tried to make it apply to “God alone”.

We can 'pray to and for each other". . ."Prithee, friend "(Prithee is a contraction of ‘pray thee’). PURITANS used the word prithee, for heaven’s sake, and there is probably nobody LESS Catholic than a Puritan!!

Wasn’t Shakespeare Catholic? Maybe he’s not a good example to use.

 

[Tanner9188]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantum ergo forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Shakespeare prayed to quite ordinary people.

Judges in Europe pray to their ‘learned counsel’ and vice versa.

You see, the verb ‘Pray’ means to ask.

Only in very recent times have certain people tried to make it apply to “God alone”.

We can 'pray to and for each other". . ."Prithee, friend "(Prithee is a contraction of ‘pray thee’). PURITANS used the word prithee, for heaven’s sake, and there is probably nobody LESS Tanner replied>
*

Doesn’t the word of God tell us exactly how to pray? What do you mean by ‘exactly’? You acknowledge that ‘prayer’ is petition (and as above, you can see that sense is STILL used in many countries, including this one. What are the examples? Jesus and the Apostles? How did they do it? Many ways. Paul asks others to pray for him. Maccabees tells us it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead. What do you think we pray to Mary about --that we just bypass Christ? That we don’t know that everything that comes from Mary (including her Son Christ Himself) comes from God? Shouldn’t Christians follow that example? We Catholics do follow that example. We aren’t the ones trying to redefine a word used as ‘petition’ and relating to all people and turn it into a narrow redefinition to ‘God alone’ and then try to argue back that the Bible used that new, modern ‘narrow’ definition way back when.

I certainly would not say to my brother or sister? “I would like to pray to you to pray for my sick friend.” why not? I believe I would say “I would like to ask you to pray for my sick friend”. Thus, a clear distinction between ask and pray. Again, a false and modern narrowing that drives Christians apart by falsely insisting that the Bible says something it does not. I understand that pray “is to petition”, but the brother or sister will automatically assume I am asking them to pray to God, the Father. Do you really have such STUPID friends that if you said, I pray you, please pray for my sick friend, that they would think that you were confusing them with God? I think that people are a lot more intelligent than you seem to give them credit for, and are perfectly capable of understanding the difference. They were, and have been, able to understand the difference in the Catholic (and Orthodox) churches for 2000 years.
__________________
John 5:2

Is Christ in you? I do not see any light based on your post? As much as it would be easy to “kill” the notion of praying to saints, that 1 & 2 Maccabees are not the inspired word of God, and show you how Jesus and the other NT writers prayed exclusively.
This can all be shown from Scripture, but your heart is not prepared to receive the Word of God based on you hostility, sarcasm and disingenuous response.

I pray, right now, to the Father that He alone will bless you with a heart of love fro Him and ones neighbor.

 

[ali_w]

Hi - I am new here, but might I just interject something?

I became a Christian about 7 or 8 years ago, but particularly in the last couple of years I have become increasingly troubled (as a non-Catholic) by various aspects of the Protestant faith. These concerns largely focus on the huge diversity of interpretation of the Bible, (and what is ‘biblical’) and - for me personally - the matter of ‘once saved, always saved’. (I am largely still quite torn on matters such as women priests, but will also admit that - for me - it is not such a particular matter).

Sometimes, delving into the often murky waters of Protestant/Catholic debate leaves me more confused: not because I do not clearly see what each side is saying, and why, but because I do not suppose for one moment I am the only person in the world who is stuck somewhere in the middle wondering why (all these centuries later), some people seem more concerned with winning an argument than with the body of Christ and His calling to us.

(And as a former atheist, I can also assure you that it does nothing at all to engage people with the gospel when they see us - Christians - fighting with each other).

I have felt more and more called to understand Catholic Christianity: I want to understand why that is, as much as I want to understand Catholicism itself. The last thing I want to do, as soon as I arrive, is over step my bounds or upset or offend anyone, but perhaps please remember that for some people, discussions that degenerate into accusation do nothing at all to help answer questions and discern why we are so dissatisfied spiritually, for all the relationship we already have.

blessings

 

[Adonia]

Hi - I am new here, but might I just interject something?

I became a Christian about 7 or 8 years ago, but particularly in the last couple of years I have become increasingly troubled (as a non-Catholic) by various aspects of the Protestant faith. These concerns largely focus on the huge diversity of interpretation of the Bible, (and what is ‘biblical’) and - for me personally - the matter of ‘once saved, always saved’. (I am largely still quite torn on matters such as women priests, but will also admit that - for me - it is not such a particular matter).

Sometimes, delving into the often murky waters of Protestant/Catholic debate leaves me more confused: not because I do not clearly see what each side is saying, and why, but because I do not suppose for one moment I am the only person in the world who is stuck somewhere in the middle wondering why (all these centuries later), some people seem more concerned with winning an argument than with the body of Christ and His calling to us.

(And as a former atheist, I can also assure you that it does nothing at all to engage people with the gospel when they see us - Christians - fighting with each other).

I have felt more and more called to understand Catholic Christianity: I want to understand why that is, as much as I want to understand Catholicism itself. The last thing I want to do, as soon as I arrive, is over step my bounds or upset or offend anyone, but perhaps please remember that for some people, discussions that degenerate into accusation do nothing at all to help answer questions and discern why we are so dissatisfied spiritually, for all the relationship we already have.

blessings

Since you are being drawn to the Roman Rite, the only way that I can describe it is that we encompass just about everything that concerns the Christian faith. We believe in Scripture along with Tradition. We have our Charismatic adherents along with those who are Traditionalists. We have the religious community, right along with the laity. A wide range of people fill our pews. Good luck, and I will pray for you on your journey.

 

[KRAS]

** If i had to go to a Auditorium, Sing songs from a Teleprompter and feel that i needed to be Born again and give testemonies to auditorum full of stangers !!! Then I would say i Lacked Jesus that i Didnt know him and would feel like I didnt have a personal relationship with Him.

For me if it isnt Catholic Why Would I go, It has an empty feeling and trust me i know i have been to other churches. from Dancing and singing,to People speaking in tounges in the middle of their service people fainting and falling, claiming to be envoked with the holy spirit .

I Know my church was founded By Jesus and i Know I am Christian of the Catholic Faith the original Christian. << will the Real Slim Shadey Please Stand Up >>

I am firm on the fact that Church God and Self are all Served with Reverance but not by how many people i can impress. << Slaps Self in Head " Your are healed My Son" >>

 

[Tanner9188]

Hi - I am new here, but might I just interject something?

I became a Christian about 7 or 8 years ago, but particularly in the last couple of years I have become increasingly troubled (as a non-Catholic) by various aspects of the Protestant faith. These concerns largely focus on the huge diversity of interpretation of the Bible, (and what is ‘biblical’) and - for me personally - the matter of ‘once saved, always saved’. (I am largely still quite torn on matters such as women priests, but will also admit that - for me - it is not such a particular matter).

Sometimes, delving into the often murky waters of Protestant/Catholic debate leaves me more confused: not because I do not clearly see what each side is saying, and why, but because I do not suppose for one moment I am the only person in the world who is stuck somewhere in the middle wondering why (all these centuries later), some people seem more concerned with winning an argument than with the body of Christ and His calling to us.

(And as a former atheist, I can also assure you that it does nothing at all to engage people with the gospel when they see us - Christians - fighting with each other).

I have felt more and more called to understand Catholic Christianity: I want to understand why that is, as much as I want to understand Catholicism itself. The last thing I want to do, as soon as I arrive, is over step my bounds or upset or offend anyone, but perhaps please remember that for some people, discussions that degenerate into accusation do nothing at all to help answer questions and discern why we are so dissatisfied spiritually, for all the relationship we already have.

blessings

How did you “become a Christian”? Do you say I know God? More importantly; does God know you? I say this not to be judgmental, harsh, nor overbearing, but to provoke some thought; especially on the last question.

Consider the words of John in 1 John 5 -
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

“This Is Written That You May Know”

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Romans 8 -
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

God bless and I pray that Gods voice will leave no doubt about the security of the child of God. I know this does not explicitly address the OSAS question, but implicitly it does and this was not my intention to address that question directly, but rather let you see for yourself what God say in relation to knowing about ones eternal destination.

 

[SteveGC]

Jesus Himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46).

Paul also warns… "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

We indeed can be assured of our present salvation…just not absolutely assured of our future moment-of-death salvation. We have a moral assurance, and confident hope, in that moment-of-death salvation, but we are exercising a dangerous false assurance to emphatically decree for ourselves this moment-of-death salvation before our moment of death actually arrives.

To “know God” is indeed to be eternally saved and enter heaven…but to know Him is a lifelong task…not a single moment-in-time event. We must get to know God throughout our entire lives. The 1 John 5:13 assurance is simply an assurance of present salvation, to know that God loves us and wants us with Him eternally in heaven…to take heart and find courage in Him to fight the good fight in our lives for Him. It is not a “know that you already made it” type of assurance He is giving us.

 

[estesbob]

How did you “become a Christian”? Do you say I know God? More importantly; does God know you? I say this not to be judgmental, harsh, nor overbearing, but to provoke some thought; especially on the last question.

Consider the words of John in 1 John 5 -
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

“This Is Written That You May Know”

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Romans 8 -
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

God bless and I pray that Gods voice will leave no doubt about the security of the child of God. I know this does not explicitly address the OSAS question, but implicitly it does and this was not my intention to address that question directly, but rather let you see for yourself what God say in relation to knowing about ones eternal destination.

why should we accept your personal interpretation of Scripture.?

I became a Chrisitan when my parents and godparents had me baptized, thus removing orginal sin and bringing me into the bsosm of the Lord. At the age of 7 I recevd our Lord and Saviors body for the first time-at the age of 12 I received the Holy Sprit via confirmation. i can never remenber a time I wasnt a Christian Beucase of my parents i knew Christ from before i was even a month old.

 

[Tanner9188]

Jesus Himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46).

Paul also warns… "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

We indeed can be assured of our present salvation…just not absolutely assured of our future moment-of-death salvation. We have a moral assurance, and confident hope, in that moment-of-death salvation, but we are exercising a dangerous false assurance to emphatically decree for ourselves this moment-of-death salvation before our moment of death actually arrives.

To “know God” is indeed to be eternally saved and enter heaven…but to know Him is a lifelong task…not a single moment-in-time event. We must get to know God throughout our entire lives. The 1 John 5:13 assurance is simply an assurance of present salvation, to know that God loves us and wants us with Him eternally in heaven…to take heart and find courage in Him to fight the good fight in our lives for Him. It is not a “know that you already made it” type of assurance He is giving us.

This is true for the persons who has not to come to God on His terms and is walking in disobedience. For the persons whom God has chosen and is walking according to His will; the Holy Spirit bears witness to ones spirit that they are indeed His children and no one can take away fro the Son, which God has given and no one saved of God would chose to do so. It is no longer the unrighteous that lives, but rather Christ Jesus now lives in and through the sinner.

Galatians 2 -
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Romans 7 -
19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, **I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. **

1 Corinthians 1 -
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

 

[Church_Militant]

More importantly; does God know you? I say this not to be judgmental, harsh, nor overbearing, but to provoke some thought; especially on the last question.

More messed up n-C preaching that actually contradicts scripture. God actually knows everyone…every single soul He’s ever created. It is God that creates us all and that is why we are fearfully and wonderfully made.

Consider the words of John in 1 John 5 -
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

“This Is Written That You May Know”

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Romans 8 -
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

And no faithful Catholic will have any problem with those verses. Yes indeed, they will say Amen! Amen! Amen! to each of them I suggest that all you faithful Catholics PM Tanner with your professions of faith in the sacrifice that Our Lord made for us all on that cross on Calvary and how you know Him. He makes grossly errant assumptions about us just as the people that the OP mentions in his opening post do. People who believe bigoted lies and misinformation about our most holy faith will make ignorant statements that we do not know Jesus.

No…we don’t know Him the way they say they do, but that’s only important in the fact that they have believed and embraced a modern, different, and defective “gospel” than the one that then New Testament proclaims, as I point out in my blog article, Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

God bless and I pray that Gods voice will leave no doubt about the security of the child of God. I know this does not explicitly address the OSAS question, but implicitly it does and this was not my intention to address that question directly, but rather let you see for yourself what God say in relation to knowing about ones eternal destination.

I’m quite sure of my relationship with Our Lord Jesus Christ. I just spent a beautiful hour with Him this morning in His Word and the Sacrament of the Eucharist. What did I hear from him?

““Hear me, all of you, and understand.
Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person;
but the things that come out from within are what defile. “From within people, from their hearts,
come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder,
adultery, greed, malice, deceit,
licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly.
All these evils come from within and they defile.””

So I know to be very careful to turn over all that I am to Him so that the inside of this vessel of the Holy Spirit is far more clean that the cups I drink from, or my hands. Mk 7:1-8, 14-15, 21-23

 

[Tanner9188]

why should we accept your personal interpretation of Scripture.?

I became a Chrisitan when my parents and godparents had me baptized, thus removing orginal sin and bringing me into the bsosm of the Lord. At the age of 7 I recevd our Lord and Saviors body for the first time-at the age of 12 I received the Holy Sprit via confirmation. i can never remenber a time I wasnt a Christian Beucase of my parents i knew Christ from before i was even a month old.

All you are stating is that you never came to God on His terms; although you may claim to know God, and “many” do; the real life and death issue is “does God know you”, and He knows only a “few”? Are you a part of the “few”? I don’t know; only the Holy Spirit can bear witness to your spirit to confirm if it is true.

May God bless you right now to think upon this question in light of His Word.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Is Christ in you? Why yes He is. I received Him at Mass today in the physical sense and The Spirit is in My heart and My Will is all for my Father. I do not see any light based on your post? Perhaps you need to search with His eyes and not yours alone? As much as it would be easy to “kill” the notion of praying to saints, that 1 & 2 Maccabees are not the inspired word of God,(that would be your unsupported word, and it is not the only example in Scripture as St. Paul mentions it as well in reference to a departed Christian) and show you how Jesus and the other NT writers prayed exclusively (I do follow the prayers of Jesus and the apostles. Do you?.
This can all be shown from Scripture, but your heart is not prepared to receive the Word of God based on you hostility, sarcasm and disingenuous response. Since none of what I said was hostile, sarcastic, or disingenuous, I have no idea why you felt it necessary to make that kind of remark yourself.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is true for the persons who has not to come to God on His terms and is walking in disobedience.

That’s not true Tanner…you’re projecting an interpretation onto the text that it doesn’t say. When Jesus makes that statement about enduring to the end He is speaking specifically to believers.

For the persons whom God has chosen and is walking according to His will; the Holy Spirit bears witness to ones spirit that they are indeed His children

Well, your correct up to this point.

and no one can take away fro the Son, which God has given

Correct here as well, but there’s nothing to support that a person cannot forsake Christ and lose salvation.

and no one saved of God would chose to do so.

See…right here you force OSAS onto the passage when it doesn’t support it at all…and neither does the Word of God. Your preachers have taught you that no one who is really a Christian can ever forsake Christ and enter the kingdom of God, but that’s a false doctrine because it is Our Lord Himself who says, "21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times. *23 *Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened to a king, who would take an account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to take the account, one was brought to him, that owed him ten thousand talents. 25 And as he had not wherewith to pay it, his lord commanded that he should be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 But that servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. 28 But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. 29 And his fellow servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he paid the debt. 31 Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came and told their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord called him; and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: 33 Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? 34 And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. 35 So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts. (Matthew 18)

So then the unforgiving believer will actually risk losing his soul.

It is no longer the unrighteous that lives, but rather Christ Jesus now lives in and through the sinner.

Well…let’s have a look at what the Word of God actually says about this elsewhere. This is from your hero St. Paul, “2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast after what manner I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.” (1st Corinthians 15)

Galatians 2 - 20

Romans 7 - 19

1 Corinthians 1 - 30 & 31Like I said before. [SIGN]Alleluia![/SIGN]

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hmmm, so 1500 years of Catholic (and Orthodox) teaching on Baptism and ‘coming to God’ are as nothing compared with somebody’s unsupported word that HE knows the ‘real way’ to God.

Tanner, you harp on the few, the few, the few. Well, I do indeed hope that you are one of the ‘few’ who does come to God in eternity, because I hope that for all people. However, on that happy day you might well be surprised to find that you didn’t come to Him because you were ‘right’ but rather, that you will find you came to Him because those you castigated and derided as wrong were the right ones after all (surprise!) and because they prayed for you even in your errors.

 

[SteveGC]

This is true for the persons who has not to come to God on His terms and is walking in disobedience. For the persons whom God has chosen and is walking according to His will; the Holy Spirit bears witness to ones spirit that they are indeed His children and no one can take away fro the Son, which God has given and no one saved of God would chose to do so. It is no longer the unrighteous that lives, but rather Christ Jesus now lives in and through the sinner.

Absolutely incorrect. This is true for all baptized in Christ…for who can fall (Rom 11:22) except those who once walked in him? And “endure” (Mt 24:13) holds no meaning for someone who believes he is inevitably bound for heaven already. And no, I don’t want to get into another scriptural debate with you…not only because I know you believe your scriptural interpretations are inerrant, despite compelling evidence to the contrary…but also because it is decidedly off-topic for this thread. But I will say this…

When Jesus, in Matthew 24, is speaking about signs of the end…he not only emphasizes endurance is required for salvation, but the endurance of those who love Him…for He says in the verses leading up to 13…

10"At that time many will **fall away **and will betray one another and hate one another.

11"Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

12"Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.

13"(P)But the one who **endures **to the end, he **will be **saved.

Again, people who have, as you say, “not come to God and walk in disobedience” don’t fall away, for those people either never believed, or already have fallen…so clearly Matt 24 is not talking about them. No, it is talking about those who once knew Christ, indeed were once disciples. Further shown in verse 12…their love will grow cold. A non-believer does not have Christian love to grow cold…only a disciple does…and yes, it can indeed grow cold if not nurtured in Christ. It is these people…former believers, disciples of Christ…who we’re told can fall away, and NOT be saved if they do not endure.

 

[Tanner9188]

More messed up n-C preaching that actually contradicts scripture. God actually knows everyone…every single soul He’s ever created. It is God that creates us all and that is why we are fearfully and wonderfully made.And no faithful Catholic will have any problem with those verses. Yes indeed, they will say Amen! Amen! Amen! to each of them I suggest that all you faithful Catholics PM Tanner with your professions of faith in the sacrifice that Our Lord made for us all on that cross on Calvary and how you know Him. He makes grossly errant assumptions about us just as the people that the OP mentions in his opening post do. People who believe bigoted lies and misinformation about our most holy faith will make ignorant statements that we do not know Jesus.

Surely someone of you stature and respect among your Catholic brethren must understand what God speaks of and means when He says He “knows” you. What you stated is true and ONLY in the sense you put it; He does “know” what He has created. However; in the context I put it, which you are either fully aware of or you could just be ignorant of Scripture; you will need to explain that to all of us to clarify.

Matthew 7 - (Jesus my lord speaking)
23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Does Jesus not “know” them?

Matthew 25 - (My Lord speaking)
11 "Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12 "But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’

No…we don’t know Him the way they say they do, but that’s only important in the fact that they have believed and embraced a modern, different, and defective “gospel” than the one that then New Testament proclaims, as I point out in my blog article, Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Are you stating in the “dark red” above that you know for sure that you are saved? If not; then please clarify what you have stated.

So I know to be very careful to turn over all that I am to Him so that the inside of this vessel of the Holy Spirit is far more clean that the cups I drink from, or my hands. Mk 7:1-8, 14-15, 21-23

You sound like a man of great spirituality; may God bless you.

 

[Church_Militant]

All you are stating is that you never came to God on His terms; although you may claim to know God, and “many” do; the real life and death issue is “does God know you”, and He knows only a “few”? Are you a part of the “few”? I don’t know; only the Holy Spirit can bear witness to your spirit to confirm if it is true.

May God bless you right now to think upon this question in light of His Word.

Really Tanner? I think you offer the gross misinterpretation of the Word of God because we can look at the New Testament and see that the gospel was clear on this.

Acts 2:38] And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39] For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”

Did Peter and the apostles preach a different Gospel that day?

How about this?

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying: If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Did her household not include even children and infants? You can’t say that it didn’t can you, and you cannot provide a single passage of scripture to support your position that no infants were baptized…can you? I didn’t think so…

1st Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

No infants? Hogwash Tanner…even the Jews circumcised infants on the 8th day, and THAT by the command of God.

And then let’s look at the verifiable historic record of what went on in the early church by a man who gave his life for Christ and who was plainly baptized as an infant, (probably by St. John teh Evangelist himself since he was his disciple.)

CHAPTER 9 (LINK) 9:1 But to Polycarp, as he entered the arena, there came a voice from heaven, saying, Be strong, and play the man, O Polycarp. And the speaker no man saw; but the voice those of our people who were present heard. And when he was brought in there was a great tumult, when men heard that Polycarp was apprehended.
9:2 Then, when he had been brought in, the proconsul asked him if he was Polycarp. And when he confessed, he would have persuaded him to deny, saying, Have respect unto thine age, and other things like these, as is their custom to say: Swear by the fortunes of Caesar; Repent; Say, Away with the Atheists. But Polycarp, when he had looked with a grave face at all the multitude of lawless heathen in the arena, having beckoned unto them with his hand, sighed, and looking up unto heaven, said, Away with the Atheists!
9:3 And when the proconsul pressed him, and said, Swear, and I will release thee, revile Christ; Polycarp said, Eighty and six years have I served him, and in nothing hath he wronged me; and how, then, can I blaspheme my King, who saved me?

 

[Church_Militant]

Surely someone of you stature and respect among your Catholic brethren must understand what God speaks of and means when He says He “knows” you. What you stated is true and ONLY in the sense you put it; He does “know” what He has created. However; in the context I put it, which you are either fully aware of or you could just be ignorant of Scripture; you will need to explain that to all of us to clarify.

Stature schmature Tanner…the fact is that you are espousing a false doctrine that the Word of God does not teach.

You assert that believers cannot fall away when in fact that is not found in the New Testament. It is a modern new wind of doctrines of men that never existed in Christian teaching until some 500 years ago.

No one can take me out of the hand of the Almighty, but I can sure turn my back on him, get wrapped up in all manner of sin and persist unrepentant in that to my dying day, and just simply depart from the narrow path and where will I end up for eternity? You got it…HELL.

Matthew 7 - 23

Oops… You ignore the very clear statement that these are condemned for practicing iniquity. Since none of us faithful Catholics do that then there’s no problem.

Matthew 25 - 11

Again…you make inaccurate assumption.

Are you stating in the “dark red” above that you know for sure that you are saved? If not; then please clarify what you have stated.

As sure as you are.

You sound like a man of great spirituality; may God bless you.

I’m just another faithful Catholic. Anything that has any merit at all is just another reason to give all praise and honor and glory to God. (Luke 17:10)

 

[estesbob]

All you are stating is that you never came to God on His terms; although you may claim to know God, and “many” do; the real life and death issue is “does God know you”, and He knows only a “few”? Are you a part of the “few”? I don’t know; only the Holy Spirit can bear witness to your spirit to confirm if it is true.

May God bless you right now to think upon this question in light of His Word.

Yu worship a book-we worship the Lord. You came to terms with a god you created out of your flawed personal interpreation of a book the Church you reject gave you. So sad.