why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

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You seem to be confusing the words preservation and perseverance.

What does perseverance of the saints mean to you? That God will persevere. Of course. That the saints must also? Apparently not.
Romans 15:1-6
1 Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not {just} please ourselves. 2 Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. 3 For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, “THE REPROACHES OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL ON ME.” 4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
5 Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, 6 so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You see; it is all of God?

Philippians 1
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus…11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Perfect = epiteleō;
to bring to an end, accomplish, perfect, execute, complete

Luke 1 -
"Blessed {be} the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
redemption = lytrōsis
  1. a ransoming, redemption
  2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
Acts 13:38-41
38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and **through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. **40 "Therefore **take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:
**
WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
41 `BEHOLD , YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH ;

FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS,

A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.’ "

Lord; please bless “Kalt” that he/she may know You and You know him/her according to your sovereign will…amen
 
As a sinner, shouldn’t you be even a little concerned that God knows your heart-your impure heart? Nothing that is impure can enter Heaven. So how are you, a sinner, so sure of your salvation?

Because God told you? He told you that you salvation is possible, but that it isn’t guaranteed. Can you not accept that? I think a strong faith in God’s truth and mercy should be enough. Why insist on reworking the deal, holding out for a guarantee that isn’t written into the contract (covenant).

God tells us that he’ll never abandon us. He hasn’t told us that he won’t let us abandon Him. He leaves us with free will, even after conversion, because he leads and doesn’t coerce.
First, if God allowed us to abandon Him after He promised not to abandon us; to allow that on His part is effectual and really Him abandoning what He promised not to do because He is 100% sovereign. To not understand this part of His nature is to put yourself in ignorance of His nature.

Second; salvation is promised to those that God knows; it is all over Scripture. Perhaps the problem you have with this is He doesn’t know you? I don’t know.

Romans 8:14-16
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

1Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

This is so beautiful-below. 🙂

2 Corinthians 1:20-22
20 For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight– 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

1John 3:24b
We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Father; I implore you to open hearts and minds to the truth you have so graciously given to those that have fully trusted in Jesus Christ; that it all of your grace, through the faith you have given generously to your children, through the Son you have given according to your will and purpose.
 
I’m confused. You say faith is what Baptizes a person then you say immersion in the water makes a difference as to whether a person is validly Baptized.

Which is it? The water Baptizes or faith Baptizes a person?
You need to clarify please?? “faith is what baptizes a person”???
 
Tanner I’m curious but where do you go every sunday for “communion” services? And do you really think that the apostles (and their successors) were advocating a “church” of believers with no religious cohesiveness by implying that each individual should come to terms with God without the help of those appointed authorities in the Church, i.e., the apostles?

May God bless you and reveal to you what He demands and may He call you
There are two paths that are both marked Heaven, but only one actually goes there. You either enter by the wide gate with all your religious baggage, like the pharisees and their following and with all your religious friends or you enter by the narrow gate, which admits one at a time and no baggage allowed, like the Publican in Luke 18.

Do you really think God and the apostles were advocating, promoting and building the Roman Catholic Church?

Blessings.
 
Continued from previous post.

35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
Hebrews 10:35-37

In the last verse, St. Paul repeats the promises of Christ, while explaining the conditions of that promise. First he speaks of the confidence and endurance which has great rewards. In the next verse, St. Paul explains the conditions:

38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Hebrews 10:38-39

St. Paul indicates that it is, in fact, possible to “draw back” with which lie consequences. One other thing that should be clarified is what Christ thought of this issue:

23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Matthew 7: 23-26

14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
John 15: 14

Jesus explains what true faith really is. He does not say to “accept Him in your heart” and He does not say that once you’ve accepted Him by doing what He asks you to do, your salvation is forever assured. Perhaps this next parable sums it up pretty well:

45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?
46 "Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.
47 "Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.
48 "But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’
49 "and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,
50 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,
51 "and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24: 45-51

According to this parable, if we know what the Master’s will is, and we do not do the Master’s will when we think He is not looking, He will cut us in two and appoint us our portion with the hypocrites. There is a very important point being made here: If the servant does the will of the Master, then he has “accepted” the will of the Master. However, at some point the servant falls away from the Master. Once he is accepted, later he is cut in two and appointed what he does not want. If there’s any doubt as to what this is, please remember: There is no “weeping and gnashing of teeth” in heaven.
**Who does the Masters will? Believer or unbeliever Who does not do the Masters will? Believer or unbeliever? This is a question of obedience to God.

Search to see if this is true and may God bless your eyes.**
 
It is indeed sad and tragic that fundamentalists who keep calling for the assurance of salvation and for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will deny the greatest means the God-man gave us to have a personal relationship with Him - a necessary means for our salvation. "In all truth I tell you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you will have no life in you’ (John 6:53). What could be more personal in a relationship than for Jesus to come into our very being with the entire substance of His Sacred Body, His precious Blood, and His Soul with His plenitude of divine life (Col 1:19; Col 2:9; Eph 3:19)?
God knowing you and understanding His word; rather than trusting yourself to religion rather than the Person of Christ, but hey to each man/woman will chose the their path, the wide one or the narrow one.

You appear to be exactly like the people that believed in eating the flesh of the Son of God; despite the fact that Jesus explicitly explained the manner to which He spoke and based on the testimony of the apostles in Acts. But hey; what is truth? Something that comes from the mouth of God.

God bless you.
 
You asked the question, “How can I be messed up?” and then you tell us that we will have to tell God that He messed up. Wow, slow down Sola Tanner!

An “insubordinate sinner” can “mess up” and loose his salvation to answer your question.
**Great, then you prove God is a liar and that He cannot keep His promises, which I have clearly demonstrated through His word, which no one is able to refute in spirit and truth. therefore you continue to throw the fiery darts, you believe are at me, but not so.

May God of Heaven and all things on earth bless you.**
 
Think about it, Tanner. You say you are sure Scripture says this and the Spirit says this --but your fellow Christians say differently --how can you be absolutely sure that what you heard was from the Holy Spirit? How can you be sure the Holy Spirit wasn’t speaking to those like me, and that you weren’t, however sincere, in error? Weren’t deceived? You say you have a personal experience with God? So do we. Scriptural basis? So do we. Openness to the Spirit? So do we. Obedience to the teachings? So do we. Good fruits? So do we. Assurance of truth? So do we.

But we differ diametrically. . .how are you SURE you are right? We can claim Scripture and its clarity that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth and that we are thereby assured that through this the Holy Spirit will guide us to all truth, and it will be a unity, one Church. . .again, all Scriptural.

You yourself must know that your fellow Protestants disagree with your interpretation of Scripture on several points. . .and these fellow Protestants, unlike us Catholics, do not claim Church authority but claim the very same personal assurance that you do–only they STILL differ from you. How is that possible?

Catholics may have individuals who dissent from the teachings (we know there will always be some who fall) but the teachings themselves don’t change.

Protestant teachings DO change. Yes, Scriptural teachings.

Prior to 1930, all Protestants taught that Scripture forbade contraception. In 1930 the Anglican Lambeth conference authorized contraception in certain ‘limited cases’. Within a generation, nearly all Protestants not only permitted those limited cases but had ‘miraculously’ found that Scripture ‘no longer’ appeared to condemn contraception. . .or divorce. . .or even homosexuality. Hmmm. . .clear Scripture suddenly reversed itself to Protestants. . .
**All mens teaching will change over time; just as the Vicar of Christ teaching has changed over time, just as Maryology has evolved over time, just as the priesthood developed over time etc etc

However the Word of God never changes. Only those that faithfully walk in obedience to the revealed truths will ever see the face of God. Where is contraception coming from???

God bless all of you!**
 
Did you come up with this all by yourself? Or, did your man in the pool-pit pass this on to you giving you his own personal, extra-biblical oral tradition? Or have you just been reading Lorraine Boettner again?

Please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know. :rotfl:
**Quit mocking the word of God; do you have no fear of Him that is able and willing to kill both the flesh and the soul?

May God help you this moment, In Christ name I ask…amen**
 
Complete confidence in the Persons of the Trinity, His promises, His character and His attributes.
But if we are to be the light and salt of the world how are we to differentiate ourselves from non-Christians if all we are expected to do according to your definition of faith is believe? Furthermore, why does Jesus insist we should be baptized?
 
There are two paths that are both marked Heaven, but only one actually goes there. You either enter by the wide gate with all your religious baggage, like the pharisees and their following and with all your religious friends or you enter by the narrow gate, which admits one at a time and no baggage allowed, like the Publican in Luke 18.

Do you really think God and the apostles were advocating, promoting and building the Roman Catholic Church?

Blessings.
Tanner you did not answer my question, please do? God bless.
 
Next you will be telling me that water baptism saves a person, which would contradict the nature of God on how He redeems the remnant, which is the same way in the OT as the NT; faith alone.
Are you not saying here that faith alone, not water, is what Baptizes a person?
 
There are two paths that are both marked Heaven, but only one actually goes there. You either enter by the wide gate with all your religious baggage, like the pharisees and their following and with all your religious friends or you enter by the narrow gate, which admits one at a time and no baggage allowed, like the Publican in Luke 18.

Do you really think God and the apostles were advocating, promoting and building the Roman Catholic Church?

Blessings.
Yes, you cannot separate the The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit from the Church.

Yes, we really think that, really.
 
But if we are to be the light and salt of the world how are we to differentiate ourselves from non-Christians if all we are expected to do according to your definition of faith is believe? Furthermore, why does Jesus insist we should be baptized?
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Tanner9188:
Originally Posted by Tanner9188 View Post
Complete confidence in the Persons of the Trinity, His promises, His character and His attributes.
But if we are to be the light and salt of the world how are we to differentiate ourselves from non-Christians if all we are expected to do according to your definition of faith is believe? Furthermore, why does Jesus insist we should be baptized?

First, that is not what I said faith is; please be accurate…thank you.

Second; you seem to be asking what it means to believe?
Spend 30 minutes or so and you might be enlightened or spend 45 minutes and listen for nothing on your computer.

Title: “True Belief”
gty.org/Resources/Sermons/80-56

Third, Salt and light is best shown by the “newness” of life wrought by God in the believer. Thoughts, actions, words and deeds will mark the person of God to the outside world. This is why obedience to His Word and walking according to His will; making your will in essence your will. This is done by God though the actions and words of the believer. What does the Bible say is the fruit of righteousness or the fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer?

Finally; Jesus commanded us to be water baptized; it identifies us with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

No one can be salt or light in this world when they remain part of this world in the flesh and the spirit.

I pray this helps.
 
Quit mocking the word of God; do you have no fear of Him that is able and willing to kill both the flesh and the soul?

May God help you this moment, In Christ name I ask…amen
He’s not mocking the Word, he’s mocking you. Lighten up. K?

May God help all of us to reveal the Truth to another. Amen
 
I see what you are saying…

thanks for sharing that. I think that recently the Church has gone through a lot of attack and catechesis has weakened. Maybe we just need some time… and people who are willing to teach others the faith, or encourage them to read the Catechism or Catholic books. As for cold Catholics…honestly, I’ve met cold Catholics, cold Protestants, cold non Chrsitians, etc…and I’ve also met great people from each of these groups. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by others at church :hug1:

God bless
thanks… and it hurts worse when it is a so-called Christian, esp a Catholic who *really *should know better… I mean, with all the “helps” we have, there’s no excuse, it seems…

but oh well… we all have our crosses… and if i were to throw them down and walk away I’m just a weanie…

or something… 🙂
 
He’s not mocking the Word, he’s mocking you. Lighten up. K?

May God help all of us to reveal the Truth to another. Amen
**You are in agreement and prove yourself guilty as well; repent in the Name of the Lord Jesus. I gave you both what God said in his word and by mocking what I gave; you mock the One who said it. No one has refuted, nor can they refute the truth; that is why it is the truth.

May God help all of you mockers of the truth; for His namesake. Where is the fear of the Lord?**
 
Tanner you are a machine my brother!

God bless you! I pray a special blessing on to you today!
 
However the Word of God never changes. Only those that faithfully walk in obedience to the revealed truths will ever see the face of God. Where is contraception coming from???
From Scripture, Tanner, from Scripture. Allow me:

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. “Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also” (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as “Onanism,” after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as “Sodomy,” after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.

The apostolic tradition’s condemnation of contraception is so great that it was followed by Protestants until 1930 and was upheld by all key Protestant Reformers.** Martin Luther said**, “[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him.”

John Calvin said, “The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring.”

John Wesley warned, “Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls.” (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils.)

And this is from Charles Gore, Anglican Bishop of Oxford, writing in 1930 after the Lambeth Conference:
The Report of the Committee of the Lambeth Conference—which, like the other reports, was received only and not accepted by the Conference, but which forms the basis of the resolutions—acknowledges both that the general use of contraceptives is ‘one of the greatest evils of our time’ and that ‘there is in the Catholic Church a very strong tradition that the use of preventive methods is in all cases unlawful for a Christian.’ In seeking to reverse that tradition it points out that ‘it is not founded on any directions given in the New Testament.’ This is true of birth prevention, and also of suicide. Almost at the moment when the Lambeth Conference published its Report, Dr. Inge at the Conference of Modern Churchmen was urging the reconsideration of the Church’s condemnation of suicide in extreme cases. If this movement were to become popular and urgent, one may wonder what a future Lambeth Conference may say about suicide. The fact is that our Lord, though He must be acknowledged to have given one specific law to His Church—on the indissolubility of marriage—on the whole abstained from legislating for His community, as, for instance, Plato legislated for his ideal community in The Laws. He gave the Church moral principles both in His teaching and by His example; and He founded (or refounded) the Church, to which, or to the ministers of which, He gave the power of legislation and spiritual discipline with a divine sanction. (‘What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’: ‘whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.’) Certainly the earliest Church, as pictured in the Acts and the Epistles, knew that it possessed these powers, and confidently used them. I am not raising the difficult question of infallibility in their exercise. Even Innocent III at the height of ecclesiastical idealism admitted that ‘it sometimes happens that the Church looses one whom God has bound, and binds by the judgement of the Church one who in God’s sight is free’; but I see manifold reason to believe that in the case of Birth Prevention the 'very strong tradition in the Catholic Church ’ has been in the right, and has divine sanction. It is a practice which it has rightly judged to be unnatural, like other sadly common misuses of the sexual organs . . . But the justification of the pleasure (the sexual pleasure of intercourse) lies primarily in its direction towards the end of propagation. This is assuredly the lesson of biology and the lesson of Holy Scripture and of Church tradition. Mankind in its wilfulness has been always seeking to separate the pleasure from its end by different kinds of practices which have been condemned by the Church as unnatural.
 
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