why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

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Yes, you cannot separate the The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit from the Church.

{/U].
We agree on that; for it would be like Jesus severing His own head; since He is the Head of the true church of God, which is the body of Christ, which will be revealed on the “day of the Lord”.

Do you really believe the Roman Pontiff is the head of God’s church?

God bless you and your family this day. 🙂
 
I think “know Jesus” is sometimes a code-phrase by certain denominations where it really means “belongs to our particular church and subscribes to our exact doctrines.” Some preachers are obsessed with growing their churches so the first thing they have to do is teach that they have exclusive rights to Jesus.
My husband grew up in the church of Christ denominations and this was certainly the case for the. To “know Jesus” was to be lock in step with coc beliefs. If you didn’t believe the bible according to their doctrine, well then you hadn’t read the bible. When he tried to explain that he had and he just didn’t agree with them, it was dismissed as you didn’t “really” read it. Same thing with knowing Jesus, unless you believe everything they tell you, you did not really “know Jesus.” I think it’s kind of sick and it turns someone’s relationship to Jesus into a control issue.
Yes, plenty of people in the Catholic Church do not really know Jesus, mostly because they are chasing feelings and not Jesus. Then they leave and join another church, often times they still don’t know Jesus, they just know hype and social time that gets them really excited and they think they have Jesus. This is why many evangelicals are church hoppers, because the buzz does not last long and they need to jump to the next hype so they can “know Jesus” even better. Father Corapi has a saying, something like, if you don’t know what love is you had better look at a crucifix real fast. I think the same applies to Jesus, since Jesus is love. If you don’t “know Jesus” you had better look at a crucifix real fast! All the potlucks and socializing and fuzzy feelings will not ever get you to know him like contemplating his sacrifice.
**What is the question you are not asking or questioning? Does Jesus know you? Something to mediate on.

God bless you!**
 
From Scripture, Tanner, from Scripture. Allow me:

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. “Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also” (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as “Onanism,” after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as “Sodomy,” after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.

The apostolic tradition’s condemnation of contraception is so great that it was followed by Protestants until 1930 and was upheld by all key Protestant Reformers.** Martin Luther said**, “[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him.”

John Calvin said, “The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring.”

John Wesley warned, “Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls.” (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils.)

And this is from Charles Gore, Anglican Bishop of Oxford, writing in 1930 after the Lambeth Conference:
The Report of the Committee of the Lambeth Conference—which, like the other reports, was received only and not accepted by the Conference, but which forms the basis of the resolutions—acknowledges both that the general use of contraceptives is ‘one of the greatest evils of our time’ and that ‘there is in the Catholic Church a very strong tradition that the use of preventive methods is in all cases unlawful for a Christian.’ In seeking to reverse that tradition it points out that ‘it is not founded on any directions given in the New Testament.’ This is true of birth prevention, and also of suicide. Almost at the moment when the Lambeth Conference published its Report, Dr. Inge at the Conference of Modern Churchmen was urging the reconsideration of the Church’s condemnation of suicide in extreme cases. If this movement were to become popular and urgent, one may wonder what a future Lambeth Conference may say about suicide. The fact is that our Lord, though He must be acknowledged to have given one specific law to His Church—on the indissolubility of marriage—on the whole abstained from legislating for His community, as, for instance, Plato legislated for his ideal community in The Laws. He gave the Church moral principles both in His teaching and by His example; and He founded (or refounded) the Church, to which, or to the ministers of which, He gave the power of legislation and spiritual discipline with a divine sanction. (‘What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’: ‘whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.’) Certainly the earliest Church, as pictured in the Acts and the Epistles, knew that it possessed these powers, and confidently used them. I am not raising the difficult question of infallibility in their exercise. Even Innocent III at the height of ecclesiastical idealism admitted that ‘it sometimes happens that the Church looses one whom God has bound, and binds by the judgement of the Church one who in God’s sight is free’; but I see manifold reason to believe that in the case of Birth Prevention the 'very strong tradition in the Catholic Church ’ has been in the right, and has divine sanction. It is a practice which it has rightly judged to be unnatural, like other sadly common misuses of the sexual organs . . . But the justification of the pleasure (the sexual pleasure of intercourse) lies primarily in its direction towards the end of propagation. This is assuredly the lesson of biology and the lesson of Holy Scripture and of Church tradition. Mankind in its wilfulness has been always seeking to separate the pleasure from its end by different kinds of practices which have been condemned by the Church as unnatural.
Please; start a new thread if you want to talk about contraception; you will not find a single word in Scripture on it implicitly or explicitly. :rolleyes:
 
But if we are to be the light and salt of the world how are we to differentiate ourselves from non-Christians if all we are expected to do according to your definition of faith is believe? Furthermore, why does Jesus insist we should be baptized?

First, that is not what I said faith is; please be accurate…thank you.

Second; you seem to be asking what it means to believe?
Spend 30 minutes or so and you might be enlightened or spend 45 minutes and listen for nothing on your computer.

Title: “True Belief”
gty.org/Resources/Sermons/80-56

Third, Salt and light is best shown by the “newness” of life wrought by God in the believer. Thoughts, actions, words and deeds will mark the person of God to the outside world. This is why obedience to His Word and walking according to His will; making your will in essence your will. This is done by God though the actions and words of the believer. What does the Bible say is the fruit of righteousness or the fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer?

Finally; Jesus commanded us to be water baptized; it identifies us with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

No one can be salt or light in this world when they remain part of this world in the flesh and the spirit.

I pray this helps.
OK Tanner, we now know you are good at quoting Scripture. What would you have done, lets say in the year 200 - WHEN the NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE HAD NOT YET BEEN COMPILED?
 
OK Tanner, we now know you are good at quoting Scripture. What would you have done, lets say in the year 200 - WHEN the NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE HAD NOT YET BEEN COMPILED?
I don’t know; I am blessed and live here in the US in the now. Have no idea how God would have used me, but whatever it would have been would be gladly received.

God bless and thanks for the interesting hypothetical.
 
I don’t know; I am blessed and live here in the US in the now. Have no idea how God would have used me, but whatever it would have been would be gladly received.

God bless and thanks for the interesting hypothetical.
Well, if you had been a Christian, you would have been receiving the teachings of Jesus Christ through the oral word and the tradition that had been handed down from the early fathers of the Church. I can tell that you are truly seeking God and I will pray for you on your journey. God bless you too!
 
You have great faith however misguided. I have no doubts because God knows me and He knows my heart, for He drew me to Him and I came to Him on His terms; not because of a religious affiliation or some phony confessional, but on His terms as it is written.

May God bless you and reveal to you what He demands and may He call you.
Boy you are WAY outta line there. The reason for that confessional is because that is how the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles set it up to begin with. Catholic Confession and Scriptures About Penance, all of which is found right there in the Word of God in spite of the errant modern teachings of men that you have been misled by.

For someone who asserts that you know God and that He knows you, you certainly lack common Christian charity and civility in your discourse with us Catholics. Is that sort of attitude supposed to inspire us to want the religion that you have? :p:shrug:
 
Romans 11 - (Paul) 20 -23

Never in the Bible will you see unbelieving a description of a believer or in direct reference to believers.
Really Tanner? Better look again…how many times did Our Lord say to his apostles and disciples, Matthew 6:30And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:26 And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm. 3

Matthew 16:8 And Jesus knowing it, said: Why do you think within yourselves, O ye of little faith, for that you have no bread?
Luke 12:28 Now if God clothe in this manner the grass that is today in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more you, O ye of little faith? Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretching forth his hand took hold of him, and said to him: O thou of little faith, why didst thou doubt?
I believe if I am reading this correct, you homed into these versus in particular.
Matthew 24 -
9 "Then they will deliver you *to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 "At that time **many will fall away **and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 “But the **one who endures to the end, he will be saved…”
As you may be aware but seem not to understand or be able to pull it all together in your mind, there are always tares among the wheat…right? Are tares saved or unsaved? Are tares exposed to the truth? Do they participated in Heavenly things the church does tasting and observing heavenly gifts wrought in the believers? Can they hang around a long time? Do they often participate in kingdom causes? Can you tell the tare from the wheat? Did they make a profession of Christ?
Could the parable of the soils be a description of the tares? 3 maybe; the 2nd and 3rd for sure.
That’s twisted Tanner. The fact is that Our Lord is talking to believers there and you are (again) forcing an interpretation upon the passage that is not actually there. If you stop listening to modern men and start actually reading what the Bible actually says, you may discover the level of deception that you have embraced.
Now think and look at the two churches of the seven to which Christ had nothing against. Why? Because these churches were under severe persecution. When things get rough who are the first to abandon the church? Tares or wheat? When things get severe; any remaining tares will all be gone and what do you have left in a persecuted church; a pure earthly church. Who will persevere? The wheat? Why? Because it is God that lives in them and through them; otherwise they could not endure. This is why it is the “Perseverance of the saints”. If you cannot persevere to the end, then you never had God in you; for He is the one that has the capacity to endure. Human effort will always fail in this regard; “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;”
Really? Again, that is a charming, but errant interpretation of that passage. You seek to infer that someone you are talking to here might be a tare…yet the fact is that those are they who have not remained faithful and have turned back to their sins.

The truly sad part of this is that n-Cs like you are the same ones who get after us Catholics because we reject Sola Fide. You will tell us that all we need to do to (as you put it) “come to God on His terms” is to confess with our lips the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, yet you just indicted thiose very people who had confessed Christ.

This is just one of the reasons that I reject Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura and the modern “gospel” from so many n-Cs. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
Until you are able to let go off the false belief that justification and sanctification are not two sides of the same coin, you will never get past the A,B,C’s.
No…we’ll just never buy into the modern new winds of doctrines of men.👍
 
Next you will be telling me that water baptism saves a person, which would contradict the nature of God on how He redeems the remnant, which is the same way in the OT as the NT; faith alone.
:rotfl:Well gee Tanner…let’s have a look at what the Word of God actually says.

*John 3:3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. **4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? **5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. *

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

So? What does the Word of God specifically say there Tanner? I don’t want your interpretation of modern men. I want you to tell me what those verses specifically say and then if you want to then maybe you can speak to how it is you accept the teachings and new traditions of modern men over what the Word of God, (which you have told us is your only and ultimate authority for what you say you believe) actually says.🤷
Romans 10 is the discussion on the whole thing; I have serious doubts that you are able or willing to understand the depth of Romans 10.
And I have very serious doubts that you are capable of seeing what the Word of God actually says when it contradicts the modern new winds of doctrines of men that you have believed so far.
If you were to put that passage in the correct Greek structure, you will render the correct English and will confirm what every other place in the Bible teaches on the purpose of water baptism. Consider the infant; first they are not immersed, which in the basic sense of the word baptizō “to immerse” “to submerge”; sprinkling is not immersion is it?
There is nothing in the New Testament that demands immersion as the only mode of baptism. It’s not there Tanner. In fact, the early church plainly states in The Didache, which was written during the same time as the New Testament by Christians and was very nearly taken as inspired scripture in their considerations of the canon, that baptism need not be only by immersion. Were the Philippian jailer and his whole family immersed in the middle of the night? No they were not. So, will you now tell us that they had to be re-baptized because the apostles got it wrong?
Water baptism is a command; it is the public proclamation of the believers association with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.
Sorry…but as I have already shown you that contradicts what the New Testament teaches.
In fact to believe that water baptism can remove any sin; is to deny the cross sufficiency to fully impute Christ’s righteousness to the believer. Denying, even part, of the work on the cross in any manner is denying the sufficiency of Jesus.
Then I guess that your hero St. Paul was not saved since that is clearly what he was told at his conversion as I have cited above from Acts 22:16.
Matthew 3:11 – (cf Luke 3:16) "As for me, I baptize you with 1) water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the 2) Holy Spirit and 3) fire.
Sorry…that’s a pre Christian baptism and not relevant to this discussion.
Which is the Baptism where God actually dwells in a believer and before He can actually and really dwell He must cleanse and make you a holy and undefiled temple to dwell in?
  1. Water 2) Holy Spirit or 3) Fire Which is it Church Militant?
According to the New Testament Tanner…all three.
When you say the whole household; where does it say that the household had small children or infants? Or have you imposed on the Word again?
Where does it tell us that they did not Tanner? It doesn’t…yet we know that Our Lord loved the kids and infants and called them to Himself. I would say that you have imposed your negative onto the scriptures when in fact there is no justification for it. That’s one of the problems with new winds of doctrines of modern men. 🤷
Furthermore; the whole household that would be baptized would also have to hear the gospel message and come to repentance and accept Jesus as both Lord and Savior. The fact that it says the whole household was baptized assumes automatically they were told about the gospel and they believed what they had heard. Praise God that the entire household believed!
Only according to your errant message and interpretations of modern men, not according to the Word of God.
Does an infant have the ability to make that free-will decision? Nothing more needs to be said to put such a notion to rest.
Sure there is more to be said. Where does it say that they have to profess faith at that time? Did the 8 day old Jewish boys profess that faith in order to enter that faith community? God did not require it of them did He Tanner? Then why would He not allow believing parents to do the same for Christian infants? This follows the very Word of God in the Old Testament where God tells us, “6] Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.” (Proverbs 22)
 
Sound reasoning for someone so well respected in you Catholic circle. So far all rhetoric on your part; it is false because Church Militant says it is?
Hogwash again…I have supported the points I made with scripture many times, and you just don’t like it that a faithful Catholic knows the Word of God as well as you do. Get used to it…I am just one of millions more.
Rather than throwing a piece or pieces of Scripture out there, almost always out of context, why not put a constructive and Biblical based argument in place of the rhetoric?
Oh yeah…,and all that out of context scripture you have sought to use as proof texting is okay? What you are really saying here is that the only interpretation that is correct is yours (or whatever errant modern teacher/preacher you like).
When I refer to Scripture, I make sure it is in context and I make sure to put 2 or more passages that support that position. On the testimony of 2 or more witnesses is the truth; especially when it is espoused by God’s word; for what higher authority can you appeal, the Catholic Church or Church Militant?
I’ve done that as well, and even supplied the links to articles I have written that get intio it even deeper, so this allegation of yours is untrue.

What it comes right down to Tanner, is that you don’t like it when a Catholic shows you to be in contradiction to the Word of God, as I have already done several times…and again tonight in my posts.

It’s not my fault…nor that of the Catholic Church if you have been deceived and believed error.
What difference does it mean what you or I assert; the truth of any assertion can be validated or refuted by the Word of God; assuming one knows and understands the Word, which is by Gods grace.
It’s something that you should consider Tanner…because by that very statement, you call into question your own remarks so far all over this forum. You argue against Catholic teachings and yet the preponderance of both scriptural and historical evidence proves you wrong and the Catholic Church correct.
If you turned you back on God, then 1) He never “knew” you; which you refused to address on the previous post, but your silence is proof I was correct. 2) you make yourself out to be more powerful than God; who said no one nor anything else can take away from the Son, which the Father has given. If you decide to go the "free-will route, then you pigeonhole yourself on the infant baptism again and you deny the absolute sovereignty of God again.
This is complete unscriptural hogwash (again), and easily refuted by the very passage of New Testament scripture that called me home to repentance. Luke 15.

You really need to work on that attitude there Tanner, because it certainly counters any effort you make to inspire anyone to want what you have.
1 John 1 - 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us**.
You are a liar and the truth is not IN you according to God. Isn’t that what He plainly says about people that deny they practice lawlessness, which is sin?**
Nice…but I never denied that I had sinned, therefore your misapplication of scripture does not apply to me. I suppose now you will assert that you never sin? :rolleyes:
(Cont’d)
 
You might even be damned by your own Church???
**The Council of Trent
The canons and decrees of the sacred
and ecumenical Council of Trent
**
That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.
No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself.
Canon 14: “If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.”
Unfortunately for you, that does not apply to me because I do not base my reversion upon my own beliefs or professions alone but upon those of Christ’s own church.

You, however, are the modern offspring of the very people that the Council of Trent was speaking to and they would not have had to define it so, had not those same rebellious and errant people been errantly teaching what it condemns. Hate it for ya…
What God says:
  1. “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness,” (Rom. 4:3).
  2. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Rom. 5:1). Peace is full reconciliation with God by faith through Christ - All of grace.
Notice here also that in this case they do exactly what you have tried to condemn here. Out of context proof texting. Either it’s valid for everyone Tanner or not…there is no equitable middle ground.

CARM is an anti-Catholic pit of deception, so I removed the link. I know what they say…and that same attitude that they cop towards us Catholics and our most holy faith is precisely why I quit posting there. Our Lord tells us “** And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off even the dust of your feet, for a testimony against them.”**( Luke 9:5 )
At least we both agree on something. May God bless us that we agree on more of your truth Lord; make this a reality according your will and your purpose for our lives.
I agree with the Almighty without reserve. You, Tanner, are another matter altogether.
 
How can I be messed up; for it is the Word of God; not my word.
As I have pointed out to you before Tanner. That is what happens when you follow the deceptive and errant new winds of doctrines of modern men. It causes you to contradict and contravene the Word of God.
You will have to let God know that He messed up because the “loosing of salvation” that is all of God and from God to the Son, cannot be messed up by an insubordinate sinner: can it?
Like I said…I have no problems with the Almighty, but the stuff you are propagating is nothing more than the errant new winds of doctrines of modern men of the last 500 years. I don’t contend with God, but you my friend are so wrong that as a believer I have to speak up in correction.
The more you talk/post against the Word of God, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself, and Heaven forbid for anyone who might take notice of the assault on the truth of His Word and believe it.
See…this is precisely the rhetoric that has no bearing on this debate and the kind of personal cheap shot I have tried to avoid. I don’t blame you personally (or even the people who fed you this load of error) because you didn’t come up with it yourself. You have simply embraced the modern new winds of doctrines of men and been deceived by them. I doubt you have done half the study that you need to to see the magnitude of the errors of the so called “Reformation” which have cascaded down to you in the last 500 years.
Hebrews 12 -4-7
:yawn: Yeah…I know. I already talked about that. The Bible also says, “5] Do not reproach a man who is turning away from sin; remember that we all deserve punishment.” (Sirach 8:5)
Titus 1 -
13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.
Yeah…that’s precisely why I’m debating with you.
1 Corinthians 5:1-6
Yep…sometimes we still have to excommunicate people in the hopes that they will wake up, repent, and get it right.
Do you see what Paul just commanded in the Name and power of the Lord Jesus; this is by far the severest chastisement that can be dealt and still be saved. God does do this on occasion; certainly more than we know.
Oh…so now you admit that there is a very scriptural basis for loss of salvation. 👍 If you were a politician, they might call you on flip flopping, or waffling, on your position. C’mon Tanner…you either can or cannot lose your salvation…you can’t have it both ways and be scriptural.
There is much more in Scripture that shows the rebuking and chastisement of God’s children.
I haven’t said otherwise, nor has any other faithful Catholic. The Church has always taught that.
If purgatory, the priesthood, the primacy of Peter, immaculate conception et al was really part of Scripture; don’t you believe that God would make it crystal clear?
Nice off topic scattergun attempt Tanner and I won’t go off on all that. It’s discussed all over the place here and easy to find if you use the search engine.

Stick to the topic.
Catholics have to pull an obscure passage here and there, usually one, and on rare occasions two; always out of context to make something in Scripture that just is not supportable because it doesn’t exist. Then you have this vast body of writing to explain this obscurity into “Church” truth and explain away the oppositions reasonings from the plain and clear text of Scripture.
This is complete hogwash (again) Tanner. Catholics here at CAF have buried you in scripture and context, (Case in point, my friends Roman Catholic, Randy Carson, Guanophore, and quite a few others. I have done it as well on several other threads and you ignored my posts.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is one of the most intensive Bible studies I have ever seen and includes historical references as well and that is only one example of Catholic material and teaching from the Word of God, so you are all messed up (again) with that allegation. I’ll bet you have never read the Catechism for yourself and don’t have the courage to do so and persevere with it all the way. I suggest doing so with your Bible out and your computer close by so you can verify the veracity of what you read.
(Cont’d)
 
Catholics wonder why people don’t believe that most, not all, Catholics do not know Jesus; it is obvious because you hold fast to false doctrines and mystical non sense because of ignorance of the voice of God IMO.
That is one of the most offensive and inaccurate allegations that I ever encountered anywhere. I have showed that your expressed beliefs do not have the support of the Word of God that you assert they do and you come back with this? Most of the beliefs that you hold are no older than the last 500 years and they cannot be found anywhere in the verifiable writings of the early church who gave their lives for the Christian faith and you sit there and make that kind of allegation?

You can’t show us that the early church believed the interpretations that you do. They aren’t there in the New Testament…and they are not in the letters of the early church to each other.
May God bless the reading of His word and bless those hearts that truly seek to know You, but You have not opened their hearts yet; I ask Father that You will do it right now, according to Your will and Your purpose for their lives…amen.
Oh amen! Don’t feel too bad when you get to wear the results of that prayer like egg on your face, and just remember you asked for it.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
Actually and really it is more like 1700 years. Emperor Constantine around 310-315 A.D…
Wrong again! You cannot supply an authentic historical source that makes that statement. That’s garbage from Lorraine Boettner, a well documented anti-Catholic author that only ignorant people accept, Case in point…Jack Chick propagates that trash and cites Boettner as his source, but you can read the verifiable letters of the early church from just after the death of St. John the evangelist and see that they held the same doctrines that we do LONG before Constantine ever came along.** **The Eucharist IS Scriptural read that just as an example. It’s not what you believe…but that was written by a bishop of the early church who was discipled by St. John himself and who was thrown to wild animals for his very Catholic faith.
Before that everything was with a little “c”. After that, is where all the bizarre stuff like purgatory, immaculate conception, praying to the dead, Marilolgy etc.
This is more inaccurate propaganda. Read that same letter from Ignatius of Antioch and notice that even as early as the end of teh 1st century/beginning of the 2nd, the Church called itself Catholic with a capital C. That’s how it works with names.

As for this 2nd attempt to scattergun us off topic. Try again. And if you want to discuss/debate those things then go find the threads where they are and don’t derail this one.:tsktsk:
 
First, if God allowed us to abandon Him after He promised not to abandon us; to allow that on His part is effectual and really Him abandoning what He promised not to do because He is 100% sovereign. To not understand this part of His nature is to put yourself in ignorance of His nature.
More scripturally errant interpretation.

Look at what the New Testament specifically says here, “11 A faithful saying: for if we be dead with him, we shall live also with him. 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us. 13 If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he can not deny himself.” (2nd Timothy 2)

It’s always better to stick to what the Word of God really says rather than buying into new winds of modern interpretations of men like that Tanner.
 
Do you really think God and the apostles were advocating, promoting and building the Roman Catholic Church?
Yes indeed, because we have the New Testament’s teachings on it as well as the letters of the early church and their faithful witness unto death itself.

The same cannot be said for all the new winds of modern doctrines of men of the last 500 years which in many cases contradict the New Testament.
 
**Who does the Masters will? Believer or unbeliever Who does not do the Masters will? Believer or unbeliever? This is a question of obedience to God.

Search to see if this is true and may God bless your eyes.**
Oh…so now you tell us that obedience to the Master’s will is necessary for salvation?

But Tanner…that’s a work! :eek:

Worse still, (for you anyway), that is precisely what the New Testament and Catholic Church teaches. 👍
 
**Great, then you prove God is a liar and that He cannot keep His promises, which I have clearly demonstrated through His word, which no one is able to refute in spirit and truth. therefore you continue to throw the fiery darts, you believe are at me, but not so.

May God of Heaven and all things on earth bless you.**
You are way outta line here Tanner. If you cannot rationally and charitably discuss/debate with us then I suggest that you need to go play with all your other a-C buddies wherever else you post, because you are not even on topic at this point and are just posting judgmental and uncharitable remarks that I believe you know full well will offend Catholics.

You are guest here with us Tanner, and frankly, were you a guest in my home and made the kind of remarks you have several times now on this thread, I’d be showing you the door with no invitation to return.

If this is what your religion makes you, then I don’t want it because I never want to be as mean spirited and unkind as you have been to us in this post and several others.

It’s a real shame too because you were doing okay for a while there.🤷
 
**Quit mocking the word of God; do you have no fear of Him that is able and willing to kill both the flesh and the soul?

May God help you this moment, In Christ name I ask…amen**
He’s not mocking the Word of God Tanner but Lorraine Boettner, a lying a-C author that is the source of most of that drivel you posted, as I told you earlier.

We generally figure that you got most all of this from your preacher or Jack Chick tracts or some other source that propagates that polemic lie, because if you do your own homework and research Boettner…and Chick, you’ll soon discover the misinformation they put forth. Don’t take our word for it…there are plenty of sources that will support what we are telling you. I have one on my blog.The “Boettner List”: Fact or Fiction?
 
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