why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[Tomster]

**Quit mocking the word of God; do you have no fear of Him that is able and willing to kill both the flesh and the soul?

May God help you this moment, In Christ name I ask…amen**

Mocking God? Heaven forbid. Just trying to get a straight answer out of you.

 

[happilycatholic]

You are in agreement and prove yourself guilty as well; repent in the Name of the Lord Jesus. I gave you both what God said in his word and by mocking what I gave; you mock the One who said it. No one has refuted, nor can they refute the truth; that is why it is the truth.

May God help all of you mockers of the truth; for His namesake. Where is the fear of the Lord?

If by disagreeing with you, you mean mocking then you’ve been mocking the words of Christ since you been on this thread. You’ve mocked His Church, His believers, and His Apostles.

Look guy, by merely stating that you think we’ve sinned or mocked the Lord doesn’t make it so. In case you didn’t know it, none of us here are in the position to judge one another. Which you have done many times. We are simply pointing out the reasons why catholics do and believe what they do. You are the one mocking us for it and making statements that go against Christ’s teachings.

God Bless you as well. May the Lord open you eyes and soften your heart so that you can be less judgemental and more open to the Truth.

HC

 

[happilycatholic]

We agree on that; for it would be like Jesus severing His own head; since He is the Head of the true church of God, which is the body of Christ, which will be revealed on the “day of the Lord”.

Do you really believe the Roman Pontiff is the head of God’s church?

God bless you and your family this day.

First of all it would be unlikely that even the Pope himself would claim to be the head of Christ’s Church since Christ is the Head of the Church friend.

You are the only one on here who has even remotely considered that the Pope might be the head of Christ’s Church. Christ’s Church is His Ministry. The continuation of His Ministry is the catholic Church on earth and all it’s believers and all Christians who are in Communion with Him through valid Baptism.

I will pray for you as well.

Blessings,

HC

 

[Tomster]

How can I be messed up; for it is the Word of God; not my word. You will have to let God know that He messed up because the “loosing of salvation” that is all of God and from God to the Son, cannot be messed up by an insubordinate sinner: can it?

The more you talk/post against the Word of God, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself, and Heaven forbid for anyone who might take notice of the assault on the truth of His Word and believe it.

Hebrews 12 -
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; 6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom {his} father does not discipline?

Titus 1 -
13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

1 Corinthians 5:1-6
1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit,** with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh**, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump {of dough?}

Do you see what Paul just commanded in the Name and power of the Lord Jesus; this is by far the severest chastisement that can be dealt and still be saved. God does do this on occasion; certainly more than we know.

There is much more in Scripture that shows the rebuking and chastisement of God’s children.

If purgatory, the priesthood, the primacy of Peter, immaculate conception et al was really part of Scripture; don’t you believe that God would make it crystal clear? Think about the Levitical priesthood for example, wasn’t it real obvious that it existed and wasn’t it expressed in such detail and clarity; what they were to do and don’t do?

Catholics have to pull an obscure passage here and there, usually one, and on rare occasions two; always out of context to make something in Scripture that just is not supportable because it doesn’t exist. Then you have this vast body of writing to explain this obscurity into “Church” truth and explain away the oppositions reasonings from the plain and clear text of Scripture.

Catholics wonder why people don’t believe that most, not all, Catholics do not know Jesus; it is obvious because you hold fast to false doctrines and mystical non sense because of ignorance of the voice of God IMO.

May God bless the reading of His word and bless those hearts that truly seek to know You, but You have not opened their hearts yet; I ask Father that You will do it right now, according to Your will and Your purpose for their lives…amen.

"Catholics have to pull an obscure passage here and there, usually one, and on rare occassion two; always out of context to make something in Scripture that just is not supportable because it doesn’t exist . . . . " - Tanner

As a Bible Alone Christian, could you please define for us what an “obscure passage” is. It seems to me that as a Bible alone Christian no passage from Scripture should be obscure for you.

Could it be that an obscure passage for you would be one that is covered by your fundamentalist template and has been glued over the pages of your defective KJV, passages your pastors refuse to look at in context with other passages?

 

[happilycatholic]

I don’t know; I am blessed and live here in the US in the now. Have no idea how God would have used me, but whatever it would have been would be gladly received.

God bless and thanks for the interesting hypothetical.

Because he doesn’t have the guidance of the Church, he would sadly be somewhat lost. He cannot comprehend a world without a Bible in it.

I certainly can. It was done before and can be done again.

The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church founded by Christ, no such promise for Scripture.

I think there’s a lot of people who know their Bibles, but do they know Jesus.

That may be a better title for a thread.

 

[Tomster]

**People have always been hostile toward and offended by the truth of my Lord Jesus; just as it it written.

There cannot be a “confessional booth” or any other type of confessional, except for the Biblical format, which is directly to the Father, the Apostolic way!

If you can’t stand the truth of the Word of God, then stay where you appear to be. i can’t say for sure, but God does know for sure.

It does not have to be that way for anyone, but only God and He alone can turn a heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

As far as your civility and charitable discourse; my words and their words speak tell the true story. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

God bless and good to hear from you again.**

Still having trouble interpreting John 20:22-23 I see. Could these verses be covered by your template too?

 

[Tomster]

Did you come up with this all by yourself? Or, did your man in the pool-pit pass this on to you giving you his own personal, extra-biblical oral tradition? Or have you just been reading Lorraine Boettner again?

Please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know.

These questions were not rhetorical. Please answer them.

 

[Zundrah]

Can someone PLEASE explain this to me?



I just read a “testimony” by someone who used to be really involved in the Catholic Church but didn’t “truly know Jesus” until he became Protestant.

I tend to hear this a lot from people…when they’re speaking either about themselves, or others.

In my experience though, I got to know God better and in a closer way once I became Catholic! Can we be any closer to Him than the Eucharist? that’s receiving Jesus physically into ourselves!

if there are Catholics who aren’t really close to God… that’s perhaps cause they weren’t properly catechized, or whatever, but it’s not because Catholicism somehow prevents people from “having a relationship with Jesus”. It doesn’t prevent…quite the contrary! those who HAVE followed the Church teachings well, became Saints…and if you read anything they wrote, it’s so obvious they were very close to God.

I just don’t understand why people say things like this and it’s really bothering me… sorry about the rant

I understand if some people disagree with Catholic doctrine and think the Church is wrong on points. But they seem to go even further, and say that Catholics don’t “really know” God. How come this is not said about other Protestant denominations, even though they have different doctrines too? how come Catholics don’t say things like that about other Christians? even if we think their doctrines are heretical, we still admit they can be saved and know God and they’re still Christians… why all this anti-Catholicism?

I have some Protestants friends who go on missions to evangelize Catholics…and bring them into “Bible believing” churches as they’re called… I hear so much about how Catholics “dont know God”, and to be honest, it’s just gotten to the point that it’s both puzzling and hurtful.

thanks for reading my rant…lol

…it is because of the religeous sacraments, protestants believe that catholics go to church in body rather that spirit, they are conditioned to take part but really there heart is elsewhere…

 

[happilycatholic]

…it is because of the religeous sacraments, protestants believe that catholics go to church in body rather that spirit, they are conditioned to take part but really there heart is elsewhere…

I can see that in all Christian walks of faith. It is the evil that satan wants to place within our hearts that causes this.

Worship of the Lord is what we make it. I will get out of Mass what I want to. If I believe the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, then when I receive I have Christ literally with me and He strengthens me and restores my soul.

If I believe I’m eating bread and drinking bad wine, then I go home pretty much the same as when I came in…a non believing, empty blob of flesh who is still hungry and doesn’t know why.

I believe it is the same for all Christians.

 

[Church_Militant]

**People have always been hostile toward and offended by the truth of my Lord Jesus; just as it it written. **

That’s nothing but a rationalization and an attempt to excuse bad behavior. You better take a look at Matthew 12:17-21.

**There cannot be a “confessional booth” or any other type of confessional, except for the Biblical format, which is directly to the Father, the Apostolic way! **

Really Tanner? Then explain away, if you can, the clear and specific teachings of the following verses from the New Testament.

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

James 5:14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

Clearly there is plain teaching here that sins are to be confessed to the elders of the church and that they are commissioned by Our Lord to hear those sins and forgive or retain them. How can you make such an unscriptural challenge if you say you accept the Bible as your only and ultimate authority. Your teaching contradicts the scriptures Tanner. How can they justify that?

**If you can’t stand the truth of the Word of God, then stay where you appear to be. i can’t say for sure, but God does know for sure. **

I could say the same to you Tanner, having just showed (again) the way what you preach actually contradicts the Word of God.

**It does not have to be that way for anyone, but only God and He alone can turn a heart of stone into a heart of flesh. **

Yeah, I know because that is what He did for me among so many other things. Either deal with the topic and make a case for your beliefs or admit that you have not been taught to properly defend what you believe and that we faithful Catholics have posed arguments from the Word of God that you are unable to counter.

**As far as your civility and charitable discourse; my words and their words speak tell the true story. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

God bless and good to hear from you again.**

It’s actually, “out of the** abundance of the heart** his mouth speaks” and is found in Matthew 12:34 & Luke 6:45.

 

[Zundrah]

I can see that in all Christian walks of faith. It is the evil that satan wants to place within our hearts that causes this.

Worship of the Lord is what we make it. I will get out of Mass what I want to. If I believe the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, then when I receive I have Christ literally with me and He strengthens me and restores my soul.

If I believe I’m eating bread and drinking bad wine, then I go home pretty much the same as when I came in…a non believing, empty blob of flesh who is still hungry and doesn’t know why.

I believe it is the same for all Christians.

Well of course, it does count the same for all christians.

 

[happilycatholic]

That’s nothing but a rationalization and an attempt to excuse bad behavior. You better take a look at Matthew 12:17-21.Really Tanner? Then explain away, if you can, the clear and specific teachings of the following verses from the New Testament.

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

James 5:14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

Clearly there is plain teaching here that sins are to be confessed to the elders of the church and that they are commissioned by Our Lord to hear those sins and forgive or retain them. How can you make such an unscriptural challenge if you say you accept the Bible as your only and ultimate authority. Your teaching contradicts the scriptures Tanner. How can they justify that?I could say the same to you Tanner, having just showed (again) the way what you preach actually contradicts the Word of God.Yeah, I know because that is what He did for me among so many other things. Either deal with the topic and make a case for your beliefs or admit that you have not been taught to properly defend what you believe and that we faithful Catholics have posed arguments from the Word of God that you are unable to counter.
It’s actually,“out of the** abundance of the heart** his mouth speaks” and is found in Matthew 12:34 & Luke 6:45.

Maybe I shouldn’t say this but I think Sola Scriptura was a means to take away God’s authority over man and place it squarely in man’s own hands. By rendering one’s self answerable only to Scripture and then claiming said Scripture can only be correctly interpreted by the individual according to the way the “Holy Spirit” moves in that person, well anyone can see it merely is a way to say: “Because the Bible tells me so”. Isn’t that a well-known Protestant Sunday School hymn?

Guess what, the Bible never said a word.

It never converted a single person to Christianity. The Bible has never Baptized one single person. The Bible has never saved a single person from hell in spite of reading it from cover to cover.

It’s about time that Tanner and those like Tanner believe in Traditions that were taught by Christ and not by Reformers who were terribly misguided.

I read something once. A lady had a dream, a vision of sorts I guess. She dreamed that an angel of the Church fell from grace and when he did it was like he fell from the night sky and as he fell, he took so many stars that for years the Church was left in darkness and despair.

She was not dreaming of satan, but Martin Luther. One man took his disagreements too far and took with him many believers.

I do not believe that Protestants are bad or in some way responsible. However, I wonder what Luther will have to answer for. I wonder how many souls he is responsible for. There are many Protestants who will get to Heaven before me in spite of Luther’s endeavor, but they will have to go through much first.

Tanner is blessed with faith and determination but his efforts are thwarted with error and hatefulness. This only compounds the error.

God Bless you Church Militant for attempting to guide Tanner with charity. I couldn’t do it for so long as you have.

HC

 

[Church_Militant]

So now those that have “little faith”, maybe the size of a “mustard” seed are equivalent to “nonbelievers”? How ignorant of Scripture; even the least able person can distinguish the difference between little faith and the faith of an unbeliever, which is ZERO FAITH.

You’re the one that calls them unbelievers, but your position is unscriptural as shown by even a simple verse like this. Mark 9:22 And Jesus saith to him: If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 23 And immediately the father of the boy crying out, with tears said: I do believe, Lord: help my unbelief.

He believed, and yet he harbored unbelief as well, Incredulity the scriptures also call it. So then even a believer can be unbelieving in some matters…even as you harbor unbelief about the clear scriptural teachings of the Catholic Church.

Furthermore; Jesus was speaking to His disciples, the apostles, and you implied they were unbelievers. What will you Catholic brethren think if they see what you wrote here; I believe most would be able to make a connection here as to the truth; I am confident in this.

You’re right. Our Lord was addressing the lack of faith (which is indeed the same as unbelief) of the very apostles He had chosen, which again proves your interpretation to be in error.

You did not actually address the issue AGAIN; always side stepping, but when confronted to the pure truth of the God’s word; what can you and your father do but flee?

You just got yourself reported to the mods for that one Tanner. If you think it is acceptable or charitable to tell someone that their father is the devil then you are dead wrong. I resent that kind of polemics. You may be distressed that I have shown several times now that your beliefs and preaching are in contradiction to the Word of God, without sidestepping or dodging anything except your scatter gun posts that would derail this thread discussion. I have not fled by any means, and your polemics and rhetoric is not likely to accomplish that.

Deal with the topic and the issues charitably and factually or admit that you cannot do so because your teachers and preachers have ill prepared you to deal with Catholics who know the Word of God as I do and who know their Catholic faith as I do. You’d like to misrepresent Catholic teaching and Catholics in general as those who do not know the Bible or the Lord Jesus Christ, but that just won’t wash and if you cannot handle that then you’ll just continue to “get schooled” by me and my faithful Catholic brothers and sisters anywhere you go.

Don’t take my word or anyone’s word for anything, as I know you do not, but you should search the Scripture as the Bereans to see if these things are so.

I didn’t…and that is precisely one of the most vital reasons that I ma a Catholic. Did you think I learned all this scripture by osmosis. Yeah… right…
(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

You assume too much; remember I am obedient and fully trust in what God has said and believe He meant what He said; therefore I do not presume who is a tare for the Lord said the Angles will separate the tares from the wheat when He gives the command because we do not know who is a tare; and the Father may decide to change the tare into wheat; and this is my prayer for all tares.

If you say so…

Again you are being presumptuous; perhaps because it is how you really feel. I love all people and have a special fondness for the Catholic people; many are in my own immediate family. It is the doctrines that I take issue with, not the people. I feel the same even concerning the Pope.

Yeah…well I bet you are real delight to meet in person. You have yet to offer any documentation to support your claim that Constantine started the Catholic Church, and that’s just one example.

Several times now I have brought forth scriptures that show that your interpretation and belief contradicts the plain statements of the Bible and all you come back with is rhetoric from modern men. If the New Testament teaches something and they contradict that then your issue is with your preachers and teachers and not with the Catholic Church.

Please refrain from making false assumptions and twisting my words, as an example you sated above: "come to God on His terms" is to confess with our lips the Lord Jesus in order to be saved,. I would never tell anyone that “just believe and say you do and you will be saved”. That is ridiculous and an intentional way to distract from the truth, but this is the way one resorts when confronted with the truth.

Not so. We were discussing infant baptism and you were the one asserting that one must confess with one’s mouth before a baptism that is merely symbolic and without any sacramental efficacy, which is clearly what I was showing in that context. I never twist anything from n-Cs/a-Cs, mainly because it’s already pretty well twisted before I ever see it.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and **believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; ** 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

:yawn: Yep…same thing that we proclaim and renew at every Catholic baptism.

What does the Scripture teach and so you and other can know exactly what “to believe” means, then I suggest and highly encourage you spend 30 minutes reading or 45 minutes listening to one of the most comprehensive, from a Biblical perspective, sermons on exactly what “believe entails” or as the title states “True Belief”.

I removed that link. I don’t listen to John MacArthur. I’ve seen his stuff before and like you…he contradicts the rest of the Word of God. If you want to discuss “True Belief”, post it over in apologetics and we can get into it bit by bit, but here…it’s off topic.

 

[happilycatholic]

Did you think I learned all this scripture by osmosis. Yeah… right…
(Cont’d)

Yes, because the Bible is magic and all those who read it receive a divine revelation that only they can interpret and thereby interpret the Bible itself and know God’s Will, not for all mankind but for them alone (cause it’s there very own revelation according to them).

It must have happened to you. Oh wait, no…you interpreted the Bible in catholic terms so that’s not right. You believe the Scriptures are revealed to us through the Apostles by the Holy Spirit’s Divine Inspiration. You believe that these same men (Apostles) had divine revelation not included in scripture, I mean after all Christ was there with them. You believe this was done for the good of all mankind and because of that, there should only be one interpretation of Scripture and one Church authorized to do so.

Well that makes no sense at all.

No magic Bible for you!

 

[Church_Militant]

God Bless you Church Militant for attempting to guide Tanner with charity. I couldn’t do it for so long as you have.

HC

It’s a gift from God. See Luke 21:15 and then Luke 17:10. I am less than nothing apart from the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Church_Militant]

Yes, because the Bible is magic and all those who read it receive a divine revelation that only they can interpret and thereby interpret the Bible itself and know God’s Will, not for all mankind but for them alone (cause it’s there very own revelation according to them).

God forbid that I should ever be so brazen! I tried that for over 35 years outside of the Church, and talk about wandering in the desert! :whacky: My Testimony

It must have happened to you. Oh wait, no…you interpreted the Bible in catholic terms so that’s not right. You believe the Scriptures are revealed to us through the Apostles by the Holy Spirit’s Divine Inspiration. You believe that these same men (Apostles) had divine revelation not included in scripture, I mean after all Christ was there with them. You believe this was done for the good of all mankind and because of that, there should only be one interpretation of Scripture and one Church authorized to do so.

Well that makes no sense at all.

No magic Bible for you!

and
[sign]Thank YOU Jesus![/sign]

P.S. I LOVE your location! Me too! I desire no more exalted place.

 

[Tomster]

zundrah,

I wish I could say thank you for all of the PM’s you have been sending me asking me to come out of the Catholic Church but I cannot. That is something I will never do by God’s grace.

So, I am asking you right now - STOP sending the messages!

If you continue to do so I will have no other alternative but to notifiy the moderators and you will risk being banned on these message boards.

If you have legitimate questions regarding any aspect of the Catholic Church feel free to start a thread and ask.

Tomster

 

[josie_L]

First, that is not what I said faith is; please be accurate…thank you.

Third, Salt and light is best shown by the “newness” of life wrought by God in the believer. Thoughts, actions, words and deeds will mark the person of God to the outside world. This is why obedience to His Word and walking according to His will; making your will in essence your will. This is done by God though the actions and words of the believer. What does the Bible say is the fruit of righteousness or the fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer?
So faith in essence is not just a belief but a total renewal of the person into the image of Christ as per the scriptures you initially quoted to me? My next question is, does the Bible differentiate between intellectual faith (belief) and the all-emcompassing faith spoken of in Romans by St. Paul? Furthermore, how does this definition of faith you’ve given differ from what Catholicism says about faith (belief) and works (obedience to Christ)?

Finally; Jesus commanded us to be water baptized; it identifies us with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

Why is it then that when Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit descended upon him? Are we not to be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit as well?

 

[josie_L]

zundrah,

I wish I could say thank you for all of the PM’s you have been sending me asking me to come out of the Catholic Church but I cannot. That is something I will never do by God’s grace.

So, I am asking you right now - STOP sending the messages!

If you continue to do so I will have no other alternative but to notifiy the moderators and you will risk being banned on these message boards.

If you have legitimate questions regarding any aspect of the Catholic Church feel free to start a thread and ask.

Tomster

And so the truth comes out . . .