Why do some Protestants slander us?

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sandmountainsli said:
Honestly (and this will cause offense but none intended) I believe that Catholics worship St. Joseph and tons of other Sainted Dead but I do NOT think that Catholics do it on purpose.
I think that the line between honour and worship is very thin and the RC Church has crossed it.
I do not think that this makes you a cult or “Whore of Babylon” however. You are baptised Christians as am I.
WP
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And tons of other Sainted dead?? Sorry, but I am offended by this. Do you know that most of the Saints died because they were martyred for the faith? They were beheaded, tortured, scaled alive, were crucified upside down, were crucified on a cross as an “x”. All the Apostles but St. John died horrible deaths. They all refused to deny Our Lord and Saviour.
Did you know that the Saints are "incorruptible? which means that even after 500 years, there tomb is open and they have not decayed? Look at the relic of St. John Vianney’s heart. Still intact after hundreds of years. It is incorruptible. My heart bleeds for these wonderful martyrs of the Church. Please respect them. :tsktsk:
We as Catholics venerate St. Joseph as the foster father of Christ. The father of Our Lord. Just like the Blessed Mother. We pray through them to Christ.
 
bella5110 said:
And tons of other Sainted dead?? Sorry, but I am offended by this. Do you know that most of the Saints died because they were martyred for the faith? They were beheaded, tortured, scaled alive, were crucified upside down, were crucified on a cross as an “x”. All the Apostles but St. John died horrible deaths. They all refused to deny Our Lord and Saviour.
Did you know that the Saints are "incorruptible? which means that even after 500 years, there tomb is open and they have not decayed? .
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Then you offend very easily:)
I did not insult the saints and I respect their sacrifices as much as you do, I just do not talk to them about my problems.
As far as incorruptiblilty not ALL saints are in such a state, many are just bones and dust here on earth. Also it isn’t only Christians who have been preserved in such a way.
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
Some Catholic practices and the approximate date of their adoption into the church.

Making the sign of the cross; 300​

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FALSE.

Help from some Early Church Fathers on making the sign of the cross:


  1. *]Tertullian before 226 A.D. “we trace upon the forehead the sign.”
    *]Tertullian “The flesh is signed so that the soul too may be fortified.”
    *]St. Cyprian before 259 A.D. “That in the sign of the cross is salvation to all who are marked on their forheads.”
    *]St.Cyprian "Women did not benefit from the sign [of circumcision]. However, all are sealed by the sign of the Lord.
    *]Origen before 285 A.D. “The sign made by Christians on the forehead, which all believers make whatsoever work they begin upon, especially at the beginning of prayers.”
    Much more here:

    catholicevangelism.org/v-cathpray1.shtml
 
sandmountainsli said:
Actually I did not.
The info I had was from an email sent to me on the old ScotWatch Religion Forum by Dan Howard.
WP
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Good to see you are giving credit where credit is due. 👍 Although you should have checked your facts first, before being, ironically, a “Protestant who slanders us”. I’m going to start a thread based on this list.
 
sandmountainsli said:
Paternoster Cord was a cord of fifty knots or beads which was used as an aid in saying the Our Father prayer, it was called saying “the fifties”. It was replaced by the Rosary in the Middle Ages. I personally agree with the Paternoster Cord.

Some Catholic practices and the approximate date of their adoption into the church.

Prayers for the dead; about 300​

Making the sign of the cross; 300​

Wax candles; about 320​

Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images; 375​

The Mass as a daily celebration; 394​

Beginning of the exaltation of Mary, the term “Mother of God” first applied to her by the Council of Ephesus; 431​

Priests began to dress differently from laymen; 500​

Extreme Unction; 526​

The doctrine of Purgatory, established by Gregory I; 593​

Latin Language, used in prayer and worship, imposed by Gregory I; 600​

Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints and angels; about 600​

Title of pope, or universal bishop, given to Boniface III by emperor Phocas; 610​

Kissing the pope s foot, began with pope Constantine; 709​

Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin, king of France; 750​

Worship of the cross, images and relics, authorized in; 786​

Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest; 850​

Worship of St. Joseph; 890​

College of Cardinals established; 927​

Baptism of bells, instituted by pope John XIV; 965​

Canonization of dead saints, first by pope John XV; 995​

Fasting of Fridays and during lent; 998​

The Mass, developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatory in the 11th century​

Celibacy of the priesthood, decreed by pope Gregory VII (Hildebrand); 1079​

The Rosary, mechanical praying with beads, invented by Peter the Hermit; 1090​

The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona; 1184​

Sale of Indulgences; 1190​

Transubstantiation, proclaimed by pope Innocent III; 1215​

Auricular Confession of sins to a priest instead of to God, instituted by pope Innocent III, in Lateran Council; 1215​

Adoration of the wafer (Host), decreed by pope Honorius III; 1220​

Bible forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council of Valencia; 1229​

The Scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk; 1287​

Cup forbidden to the people at communion by Council of Constance; 1414​

Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of Florence; 1438​

The doctrine of Seven Sacraments affirmed; 1439​

The Ave Maria (part of the last half was completed 50 years later and approved by pope Sixtus V at the end of the 16th century); 1508​

Jesuit order founded by Loyola; 1534​

Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the Council of Trent; 1545​

Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent; 1546​

Creed of pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed; 1560​

Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, proclaimed by pope Pius IX; 1854​

Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by pope Pius IX, and ratified by the Vatican Council; condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the pope s temporal authority over all civil rulers; 1864​

Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council; 1870​

Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death), proclaimed by Pope Pius XII; 1950​

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This seems to be from Lorraine Boetner, is it?

Some of the claims here has been refuted in this site:
catholic.com/library/More_Catholic_Inventions.asp

catholic.com/library/Catholic_Inventions.asp

This list you gave is not to be trusted. There are clearly some Anti-Catholic ones on there that made it into common Anti-Catholic Myths such as (‘Bible forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council of Valencia; 1229,’ and ‘Apocryphal books ‘added’ to the Bible by the Council of Trent; 1546’), and some that does not have anything to do with the theme ‘Doctrines invented by the Catholic Church and the dates they were invented’, such as (Jesuit order founded by Loyola; 1534). These list has been refuted time and time again, ad nauseum. The link above is an example of that.

Mr. William, Please do not take this post as an angry one. I’m not saying you’re An Anti-Catholic, in fact it’s nice you consider us Christian, but at least please don’t use this list to prove that certain beliefs of Catholics were invented at a certain date as this one is rather Anti-Catholic, judging by the claims in it.

May God Bless you! 👍

EDIT: It seems Eden has started a new thread about this subject. Good job! 👍
 
sandmountainsli said:
Honestly (and this will cause offense but none intended) I believe that Catholics worship St. Joseph and tons of other Sainted Dead but I do NOT think that Catholics do it on purpose.
I think that the line between honour and worship is very thin and the RC Church has crossed it.
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The line between honour and worship is a gaping chasm. Honour and worship constitute two very different things, “species” if you will. Catholics call honour “dulia” and worship (adoration really) “latrea”. I’m not sure I’ve spelt those correctly. Anyway, no matter how much honour we pay the saints or to anyone else (for example, calling a judge “your honour” or a magistrate “your worship” constitutes such honour, which is required at time if you don’t want to be thrown in gaol for contempt of court), it doesn’t nor can it come close to the latrea we pay to God alone. Every single time adoration is mentioned in the Bible, it is associated with sacrifice. The only reason Protestants think that dulia and latrea are the same is because they have utterly removed anything to do with sacrifice from their so-called “worship” (which in some cases, constitutes prayer and learning only - this is coming from my own personal experience).

edit: I should mention that not all Protestants have removed sacrifice from their “worship”. Therefore my comments above should be restricted to those Protestants who do.
 
Mat 28:19-20 ‘Go ye and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and and teach them to observe all that I have commanded you, And e assured I am with you always, to the end of time’.

That by definition is making the Church infallible in her mission as it is appointed by Christ who is infallible.
 
Sixtus said:
Supposen I said protestants were rapists,. How would they feel?

Personally I would rather you called me a rapist than an idol worshipper. I have never worshipped an idol in my life. I do not know of any catholic who has ever worshipped an idol. Protestants love to insult, prejudice, discriminate and slander catholics for no good reason other than because they are angry we havn’t substituted Christ with Luther.

I do not need quotations from the bible warning me about devil worship, which is what idol worship is

If you can’t say anything good about catholics, I strongly suggest say nothing at all rather than conspire against us in the great conspiracy of idol worship!!!

For your interest, most Catholics keep a crucifix to remind themselves of the price that was paid for the remission of sin.

What about folk who keep a photo of their loved one’s on their desk at work. Are they also guilty of idol worship?
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Usually, Anti-Catholic Protestants attack and slander the Church because…

1.) They usually believe in Jack T. Chick, Lorraine Boetner etc.'s lies, especially if they do not know history that much.

2.) Someone Catholic has done something to them that made them angry and thus usually direct their anger and resentment to the Church.

Don’t worry, Jesus said that ’ If they have called the Master of the House ‘Beelzebub’, how much more those of his household!’
(Matt. 10:25) The Christian should expect this, being slandered and persecuted. Just rejoice and exult. (Matt. 5:11-12)
 
Sixtus said:
Mat 28:19-20 ‘Go ye and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and and teach them to observe all that I have commanded you, And e assured I am with you always, to the end of time’.

That by definition is making the Church infallible in her mission as it is appointed by Christ who is infallible.
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Our definition of “The Church” differs.
You see it as one organized church and I see it as all baptised believers. Those who believe with all of their heart the words of the Apostles Creed.
WP
 
sandmountainsli said:
I didn’t choose that one.
It cut me off after 15 letters. So I was stuck with it.
WP
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But, but… “William” is only seven letters. 😉 Just kidding. I’ll make a note of it. But I think I should include in parentheses (sandmountainsli) so everyone knows to whom I am referring.
 
Adoration of the wafer (Host), decreed by pope Honorius III; 1220
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IN the second century a Christian woman was assaulted on her way home and her property stolen. On her person was the Blessed Sacrament. She had taken it home for personal adoration as was the custom at that time among the laity and not with the full approval of the Church,

This incident was to be the catylis which led the Church to forbid laity taking hosts from the Place of Reservation. In future all adoration was to be done in a place of reverence away from the risk of sacrilige.

This won the approval of the Pope and the ban remains in force to this present day 1800-years later. 👍
 
sandmountainsli said:
Our definition of “The Church” differs.
You see it as one organized church and I see it as all baptised believers. Those who believe with all of their heart the words of the Apostles Creed.
WP
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Are you familiar with the origin and history of the “Apostles’ Creed”?
 
Sixtus said:
IN the second century a Christian woman was assaulted on her way home and her property stolen. On her person was the Blessed Sacrament. She had taken it home for personal adoration as was the custom at that time among the laity and not with the full approval of the Church,

This incident was to be the catylis which led the Church to forbid laity taking hosts from the Place of Reservation. In future all adoration was to be done in a place of reverence away from the risk of sacrilige.

This won the approval of the Pope and the ban remains in force to this present day 1800-years later. 👍
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The problem with this whole claim of “adoration of the host” is that we are not adoring “the host”. We are adoring Christ Himself who is present in the *consecrated *host. The claim here is that we are worshipping someone/thing other than God.
 
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