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sandmountainsli
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It is an early baptismal statement.
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Atreyu
Guest
Where do you get this definition of the word “Church” from? Is it from the composers of the Apostle’s Creed? Or from the composers of the Nicene Creed? Because I’m pretty sure they all believed in this word in the same way that Catholics do today! So how do modern day Protestants know better than the original authors of the Creeds?
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sandmountainsli
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In the days of the early church the Old British Church or “Celtic Christianity” existed seperately from the Roman Church.
Was it not still a part of Christiandom? Of course it was!
Just as today not all Christians are in communion or even communication with one another.
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Sixtus
Guest
Yippee, I’ve hit the 200’! 
How soon before I become a ‘senior’ member and a real cool dude
How soon before I become a ‘senior’ member and a real cool dude
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sandmountainsli
Guest
The term “church” is used in two basic senses in the New Testament. Firstly, it refers to the “aggregate of those throughout the world who have been saved by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mt. 16:18; Acts 2:47; Eph. 1:22). Secondly, it refers to “some such saved in a particular geographical area who band together for purposes of worship and spiritual work” (Rom. 16:16; I Cor. 1:2; Rev. 1:4 , 11). These are usually referred to as the “universal” and “local” senses, respectively, of the term, “church.”
The term “catholic” is derived from a Greek word which means “general” or “universal.” As this term is applied to the first of the two above senses it is quite accurately applied, for the Lord certainly intended for His disciples to be parts of one, universal body (Jn. 17:20-23; Eph. 4:4). There are no parties, or branches, of disciples making up the universal church. However, what is it that makes the church “Catholic?” What is it that gives the church its “oneness?” The element which compacts all Christians into one body is their common faith in, and relationship with, Jesus Christ. Thus, the oneness of the church is doctrinal in nature. The universal church is not so much an organization as it is a relationship. One is a member of the universal church, and thus related to all the other members of that church, because he has formed a relationship with Jesus Christ. The components of the universal church are individual Christians, not local congregations (I Cor. 12:27).
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Atreyu
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What do you mean by the sentence I have high-lighted? I agree with the following sentence, by the way. But I do think that the Church must be one in organisation as well. What is oneness in relationship apart from oneness in organisation? That doesn’t make much sense. In John 17 Jesus prayed that his followers all be one as He and the Father are one. Here, Jesus is praying that His followers will be one in organisation, correct? Indeed, how can we be one in doctrine if we are not also one in organisation? Are the Protestants one in doctrine? Are the Catholics one in doctrine?
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sandmountainsli
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Oneness of the church is doctrinal in nature.
I mean that the oneness of the church as a denom or organization is doctrinal in that it is a man made concept.
True Oneness is the something which I believe all Protestants (except those generally considered cultic or heretical) share and I believe Catholics and EO members are one in the same with us.
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lak611
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Once again, I think a lot of the slander is due to prejudice, and this is evident in both Catholics and Protestants. It is the same as racial prejudice or prejudice against certain nationalities. Usually when people say “All ________ are” it means that they really do not know the persons they are defaming. When a person gets to know someone who is “different”, i.e. a different race, nationality or religion, he realizes that there are actually more similarities than differences. Luckily, my parents have always had Black friends, and there are Protestants who are part of my family, so I have not felt that these folks were anything less than me. We are all made in the image and likeness of God (that’s how He created us), so there is nobody that is inferior, and we should not slander anybody. Besides, Jesus told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us.
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Atreyu
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Where do you get this idea from?
Where do you get this idea from? What if I said that this very abstract idea of oneness was a man-made concept? Certainly, it doesn’t seem to be present in the early church - not until the 16th century! Doesn’t that then certainly qualify as a man-made concept?
What was the point of adding the word “one” to the Nicene Creed? Why would the fathers do that, if for your idea of what that word means? If that’s what they understood by this word, then isn’t it completely redundant?
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Eden
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I believe you are speaking of a heretical group called the Pelagians. They were not a legitimate Christian movement.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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The mention of Valencia - it should be Toulouse - marks this list as being taken from some edition of the book other than the fifth edition (published 1989) which gets the place right; the 1962 British edition (which differs mainly in leaving out most of the stuff out which discusses the criminality of US Catholics) contains the error.
The entry is still not quite accurate even in the 1989 edition. ##I think this is confusing the (Brown) Scapular with the Angelus
This to some extent confuses the Syllabus with some decisions of Gregory XVI, who preceded Pius IX. In the body of the book, the Syllabus of Pius IX is further confused with the anti-Modernist Syllabus of St. Pius X. All of which rather suggests that Boettner did not have access to editions of the documents.
There is a lot more wrong with this list, but that enough for now. IMO, the sooner this book is forgotten, the better for his reputation & for all concerned; it is terribly inaccurate, & has tended (among Catholics) to overshadow his other books - as a contrast, I found his book on Predestination,written in 1932, very helpful; & for that I’m grateful 
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deb216
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**Why do some Protestants slander us? **
There isn’t a single answer.
I am new here but my very brief personal history is that I was raised by a Roman Catholic mother and Pentecostal father. It was difficult for me, as a child, to determine who was “right” and who was “wrong.” There were so many good people in both churches! I was baptized Catholic but, for my own sake, I needed answers.
Seeking those answers led to a life long pursuit of knowledge. I became one of those “rude” people who likes to discuss religion. In doing so, I became a target for anti-Catholic rhetoric.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they learned it on a parent’s knee. My MIL was one of those people. She was raised Southern Baptist and was truly the most vitriolic anti-Catholic I had ever met. Hubby said she spewed that poison all his life. It turned him off religion so completely that we were married 13 years before he chose to go to RCIA and receive his Sacraments.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they learn it from the pulpit. That one surprised me. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen the SDA equivalent of a bible study that specifically addressed Catholicism and why we were all going to hell.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because we are easy targets. By that I mean we have been mocked by so many for so long that it seems commonplace. Ho hum, another nun/Pope/Catholic priest joke…
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they just don’t “get it.” It is incomprehensible in our modern world that priests can’t marry, women can’t become priests, homosexuals can’t marry, birth control is rejected, sex is reserved solely for marriage, sacrifice is encouraged and we actually have to confess when we do something bad!
Some people simply take 2+2 and arrive at anything but 4. They see little glimpses of Catholicism and make conclusions that they consider to be perfectly reasonable without doing any deeper research.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they need a “bad” guy in order to be the “good” guy. It validates them.
I know one woman who hates Catholicism because she was raised by parents who abused and neglected her, but sent her to Church every Sunday. Even though they never attended Mass, never lived a Christian life and never pretended to be better than they were, she blames the Priest. He was supposed to know.
It is all based on ignorance. Forgive them because they know not what they do.
There isn’t a single answer.
I am new here but my very brief personal history is that I was raised by a Roman Catholic mother and Pentecostal father. It was difficult for me, as a child, to determine who was “right” and who was “wrong.” There were so many good people in both churches! I was baptized Catholic but, for my own sake, I needed answers.
Seeking those answers led to a life long pursuit of knowledge. I became one of those “rude” people who likes to discuss religion. In doing so, I became a target for anti-Catholic rhetoric.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they learned it on a parent’s knee. My MIL was one of those people. She was raised Southern Baptist and was truly the most vitriolic anti-Catholic I had ever met. Hubby said she spewed that poison all his life. It turned him off religion so completely that we were married 13 years before he chose to go to RCIA and receive his Sacraments.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they learn it from the pulpit. That one surprised me. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen the SDA equivalent of a bible study that specifically addressed Catholicism and why we were all going to hell.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because we are easy targets. By that I mean we have been mocked by so many for so long that it seems commonplace. Ho hum, another nun/Pope/Catholic priest joke…
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they just don’t “get it.” It is incomprehensible in our modern world that priests can’t marry, women can’t become priests, homosexuals can’t marry, birth control is rejected, sex is reserved solely for marriage, sacrifice is encouraged and we actually have to confess when we do something bad!
Some people simply take 2+2 and arrive at anything but 4. They see little glimpses of Catholicism and make conclusions that they consider to be perfectly reasonable without doing any deeper research.
Some people slander the Catholic Church because they need a “bad” guy in order to be the “good” guy. It validates them.
I know one woman who hates Catholicism because she was raised by parents who abused and neglected her, but sent her to Church every Sunday. Even though they never attended Mass, never lived a Christian life and never pretended to be better than they were, she blames the Priest. He was supposed to know.
It is all based on ignorance. Forgive them because they know not what they do.
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lak611
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I still believe that slander is due to prejudice. Most people who say “All Catholics are_______” or “All Protestants are ______” do not actually know the people that they are speakiing against. The same thing applies to racial stereotypes. Luckily, I have Lutheran family members ande Methodist friends, so I do not fall into the trap of stereotyping Christians who are non-Catholic. My parents, who are both Caucasian, have friends and co-workers who are African-American, and I have African-American, Asian, Hispanic, and American-Indian friends, so I do not stereotype people of other races and nationalities. If a person really gets to know somebody from a different race or nationality, he will see that we are really more similar than different! People who slander those who are different really need to broaden their horizons. The people that they say are “different” are really more similar than they know; they just have not taken the opportunity to get to know them. God made all of us: this doesn’t matter whether we are Caucasian, Black, Asian, Native American, or a mixture of one or all of the previous. God created us, and He loves us as we are. God doesn’t make any junk! 
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lak611
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I am a Catholic, but I respect and love people of all races, nationalites and religions because God our Father made all of us, and He loves all of us and wants everyone to be saved!
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AlegreFe
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ThanksHi,
As your resident born again christian/protestant, I defended the CC over the weekend.
I too was “born again” when I was baptized!
I love Jesus Christ!
He opens up His arms to me all the time http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/ScrdHrtarms.jpg
and I am dedicated to His Sacred Heart. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/ScrdHrtBld.gif
And NO, I am NOT worshipping those “images” of Jesus.
They are just pictures of my Lord and Savior just as I have pictures of my daughter in my wallet and on my walls. I don’t know why some Protestants think we are “Idol Worshippers.” 
That’s just rediculous. 
Like I’m going to worship a piece of bread or a statue. How stupid is that?
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AlegreFe
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Yes, that worries me too.I’ve come across many Protestants, but I have found it rare that any of them blatantly attack my beliefs in a rude manner. In my opinion, more concerning is the growing number of “Catholics” who attack their own mother Church.
The worst people who attack the Church are former Catholics. Believe me, I know that from experience. My brother and my sister are both fallen away Catholics who are now Protestants and they HATE the Catholic Church.My brother especially says that he does not want to associate with any Catholics because he “hates Catholics and what they believe in.” But he has no idea what we believe in and has no idea what the Catholic Church teaches because if he knew he would come back to the Catholic Church. He doesn’t even go to Church on Sundays. He hopped around to different churches and he can’t find one that totally believes what he believes so I guess he decided to be his own “pope.”
He thinks watching J.Swaggart on the internet or TV is sufficient for his Sunday obligation.I am telling you this so that you can pray for my brother. Please all you strong Catholics out there, please pray for my brother
and pray for my sister and her two kids too.I also have a brother-in-law who also fell away from the Church and is now Baptist. He has no idea what the Church teaches either. He said that the Church was corrupted. But if he believed that the Catholic Church was the Church that Jesus built but then it was corrupted, I don’t understand how he could think that. Doesn’t he know that after Jesus told Peter that he was Rock and on that Rock He would build His Church, he told him that the gates of Hell will never prevail? How could he think that the Church was corrupted? Are there any Baptists out there that can explain this to me? Maybe we can start another thread on this matter?
Why do Baptists think the Church was corrupted. To me that means that at least you think that the Catholic Church was right at one point but then got it wrong. And if you think the Church was right at first how could you think that the gates of hell prevailed when Jesus said it would never happen?
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lak611
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I have Protestant family members and friends. They know me, and I know them. We love and respect each other, and we never say anything that is slanderous or uncharitable towards each other’s faith. From my experiences, those who slander another’s faith, be they Protestant or Catholic, usually do not really know people from the faith that they are putting down; they are just speaking out based on prejudices that they have learned from their family/friends their whole lives. It is similar to racism. Those who hate blacks, whites, Asians, etc., usually really don’t know any; they are just repeating what their parents, family, friends, keep drumming into their heads. If you get to know the Protestant, Catholic, African-American, Caucasian, etc. next door, you will probably discover that he/she has more in common with you than what is different. All of us need to expand our social circles. That’s what St. Paul says too (Galatians 3:28-29).
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AlegreFe
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Are you a convert?
Oh my
I know how that feels. I also have a brother who tells me “you’re a smart girl” as if trying to say that I’m too smart to be a Catholic… OR he’s just trying to butter me up to try to “save” me or “convert” me. I need converting every day, we all do. But I receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion every Sunday and some weekdays and that is my salvation. I will never become Protestant. What for? I have everything I need in the Catholic Church.I know what you mean that is why I pray for perseverance and patients with our separated brethren. There are a lot of Protestants out there who are truly Christians and don’t attack Catholics. And some of those who DO attack are just doing it out of ignorance. So I pray for all people to be converted. Even I as a faithful practicing Catholic need conversion every day.
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eleonardo
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Ignorance and arrogance I would say.
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