Why do some say that Catholic is not Christian?

[friardchips]

Friardchips,

Just saw the above from days ago. Don’t know why.

You could PM me anytime. No problem.

In case you don’t - I do wish you a joyous Christmas.

Fran

Hi Fran. Thanks for the okay. Am leaving things for the rest of Christmas on here so probably speak again after at some point. Thank you , and wishing you a blessed Christmas also!

:christmastree1:

 

[SyroMalankara]

Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Don’t call me your separated brother thanks as I would prefer that you call me a heretic.

post tenebras lux

yeah. Most if not all of those solas are heterodox if left unclarified. Although it is a catchy soundbite, kind of like the Lutheran version of “every coin that rings a soul from Purgatory springs”… yours has a more theatrical ring, very ‘political theateresque’ … our Tetzels was just a rhymey song to go along with the preSalvationArmy buckets and bells

 

[frangiuliano115]

Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Don’t call me your separated brother thanks as I would prefer that you call me a heretic.

post tenebras lux

What is soli Deo gloria?

Fran

 

[SyroMalankara]

What is soli Deo gloria?

Fran

Latin for “Glory to God alone” or more literally “Glory to the only God”

 

[frangiuliano115]

Latin for “Glory to God alone” or more literally “Glory to the only God”

Yes. Worshipping only God.

Thanks.

 

[guanophore]

Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Don’t call me your separated brother thanks as I would prefer that you call me a heretic.

post tenebras lux

We must adhere to the Teachings of the Church, and therefore, we must esteem you as our sibling in Christ.

It is not likely that you qualify for the title of heretic. That would presuppose that you did, at one time, know and accept the teaching of the Apostles in these areas. Then after embracing the Apostolic faith, you would have to willingly and knowingly reject it.

 

[guanophore]

Latin for “Glory to God alone” or more literally “Glory to the only God”

But Calvin does not mean it literally like that. What he means is that God has done everything regarding mankind solely for His Own Glory - ie, he did not create humankind out of love or a desire to fellowship with man, but so that He can be glorified.

 

[In_His_Grace]

I was feeling a bit ornery the other day.

 

[Smfm]

By this, I was referring to the belief that Baptism by water provides salvation (or at least, somehow initiates or is required for salvation). I disagree with this, but I don’t think it is heretical in the form the Catholic church or other Protestant churches teach it. (Rethinking my last paragraph, it is probably heretical to say it is the only thing needed for salvation, but I’ve yet to meet a church that says that.)

It’s not Heretical unless you are a Catholic & have left the Church.

 

[Peter_J]

Don’t call me your separated brother

Usually at this point we go into “We’re not** your** brethren, you’re **our **brethren” etc. etc. etc.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Usually at this point we go into “We’re not** your** brethren, you’re **our **brethren” etc. etc. etc.

I consider all Catholic Christians to be my brothers and sisters in Christ including my Roman Catholic wife. It’s not that complicated in my mind.

 

[guanophore]

Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Don’t call me your separated brother thanks as I would prefer that you call me a heretic.

post tenebras lux

I am not sure you can qualify for the title, IHG. You would first have to embraced the faith handed down to us from the apostles, then willingly and knowingly abandoned them for the above heretical positions. Most Christians born into and raised in other ecclesial traditions have never been exposed to the One Faith in its Fullness, so cannot be said to have left it.

 

[Peter_J]

I consider all Catholic Christians to be my brothers and sisters in Christ including my Roman Catholic wife. It’s not that complicated in my mind.

You’re right it’s not complicated, but you have the direction wrong. We’re not** your** brethren, you’re **our **brethren.

Granted, some will think I’m making a joke (for some reason ) but in all seriousity, I have encountered posters who believed that the “brethren” description goes in only one direction, and were quite opinionated about which side should be called the brethren of the other side. So who’s to say what a joke?

 

[In_His_Grace]

I am not sure you can qualify for the title, IHG. You would first have to embraced the faith handed down to us from the apostles, then willingly and knowingly abandoned them for the above heretical positions. Most Christians born into and raised in other ecclesial traditions have never been exposed to the One Faith in its Fullness, so cannot be said to have left it.

According to Catholic teaching you are correct. As far as “embracing the faith handed down to us from the apostles” goes it’s not that I didn’t sincerely and earnestly desire to understand and convert to Catholicism.

 

[In_His_Grace]

You’re right it’s not complicated, but you have the direction wrong. We’re not** your** brethren, you’re **our **brethren.

Granted, some will think I’m making a joke (for some reason ) but in all seriousity, I have encountered posters who believed that the “brethren” description goes in only one direction, and were quite opinionated about which side should be called the brethren of the other side. So who’s to say what a joke?

I get your point.

Thanks.

 

[benhur]

Your answer is why.

They don’t believe that everybody who is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spririt as a baby makes them automatically be a christian.

It’s really easy. Christian has the word CHRIST in it. Anybody who believes in Christ is a Christian. But catholics don’t concentrate on this and so the doubt that we’re Christian.

Fran

Hi fran,

Saw this thread and began scrolling down posts, and while thinking of my response I came across yours which seems to kindly articulate mine. Something to do with Catholic belief in effectual Sacramental, Institutional salvation (being in, and doing the required church’ things’). To be fair, some P’s will question anyone’s assumed Christianity beyond affirming a church affiliation (" I am Catholic", or “I am Episcopalian”, or “I am Lutheran” , “Yeah, but are you saved?”, as asked by the fundamentalist character in last years WWII tank movie “Fury”.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

You’re right it’s not complicated, but you have the direction wrong. We’re not** your** brethren, you’re **our **brethren.

Granted, some will think I’m making a joke (for some reason ) but in all seriousity, I have encountered posters who believed that the “brethren” description goes in only one direction, and were quite opinionated about which side should be called the brethren of the other side. So who’s to say what a joke?

Ah, those sticky vestiges of sectarianism. Hard to get free from (myself included). Well for sure purgation of such will be evident in the kingdom to come.

Blessings

 

[Tommy999]

I have been told before that being Catholic is completely different than being Christian. How is this even possible? I mean I can understand people saying say Mormons amd Jehovah’s Witnesses not being Christian but how can one say the largest denomination in Christianity amd not to mention arguably the original church which is suppose Eastern Orthodox churches can claim as well is the original church?

I think some Protestants have a narrow view of what it takes to be a Christian, and all those who don’t believe likewise are not Christian, in their minds. For example,
gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

I don’t adhere to that perspective. I certainly believe that Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ and that Catholicism existed long before my faith tradition ever did. That is why I joined CAF in first place, in order to enhance my overall faith in Christ and learn from Catholics and other Christians.

However, I am sometimes puzzled by the following.

Usually, when I hear a non-Catholic respond to the question, “Are you a Christian?”, they simply reply “Yes”. They usually don’t say they are a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc unless there is a follow-up question asking then what denomination they belong to. They simply respond, “Yes” to the question.

When I hear a Catholic respond to the same question, most of them respond, “I’m Catholic”. I wonder why they just don’t say, “Yes”, or Yes, I am a Catholic Christian" or something to that effect.

 

[benhur]

Actually, no. Christianity has some unique marks that go beyond belief in Christ. Let’s look at sects such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. Mormons believe in Christ, and baptize with the correct form and matter, but still their baptism is invalid, because they believe in henotheism; and they believe that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are separate gods. Jehovah’s Witnesses also believe in Christ, but their concept of Christ is utterly foreign to Christian belief. They adhere to the Arian heresy; they deny the Holy Trinity; they believe Christ is not divine but is the personification of St. Michael the Archangel.

I could go on with other non-Trinitarian sects such as Iglesia ni Cristo and others. Suffice it to say that “belief in Christ” is not the defining characteristic of Christianity, not from a Catholic perspective.

Hi E,

Understand your much heard qualifying of ‘belief in Christ’, like the devils believe also. I think their is a general understanding of what faith in Christ means, with an assumption of genuine, universal meaning. And this for facilitation of conversation. Otherwise , one can go on and on with qualifying. Yet that is the thread topic. Does saying you are Catholic (or Orthodox or Lutheran) need qualifying ? I would say yes, if one is pursuing spiritual condition/standing of confessor. Is belief in Christ in truth and spirit ? If so, that is the defining characteristic of ‘Christian’. But you are right in demanding qualifying what is the “truth and spirit” of such faith.

Blessings

 

[Michael68]

I think some Protestants have a narrow view of what it takes to be a Christian, and all those who don’t believe likewise are not Christian, in their minds. For example,
gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

I don’t adhere to that perspective. I certainly believe that Catholics are my brothers and sisters in Christ and that Catholicism existed long before my faith tradition ever did. That is why I joined CAF in first place, in order to enhance my overall faith in Christ and learn from Catholics and other Christians.

However, I am sometimes puzzled by the following.

Usually, when I hear a non-Catholic respond to the question, “Are you a Christian?”, they simply reply “Yes”. They usually don’t say they are a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc unless there is a follow-up question asking then what denomination they belong to. They simply respond, “Yes” to the question.

When I hear a Catholic respond to the same question, most of them respond, “I’m Catholic”. I wonder why they just don’t say, “Yes”, or Yes, I am a Catholic Christian" or something to that effect.

I believe the answer to the question is because Catholic is Christian