Why do some stay in the Catholic Church while seeming to hate the Church with all their being?

[livingwordunity]

I hear nothing but complaints about the Church from some Catholics. But most of these complaints are blaming the Church for doctrines that she got directly from Christ. Some of the complaints border on being paranoid and delusional such as the claim that the Church is spying on them in the bedroom just because the Church won’t approve of sexual sins. All of a sudden the Church is being accused of being bigoted because of our sacrament of marriage. It’s as if they think the Church just came up with this doctrine about marriage yesterday. It seems that most if not all of them are “cradle Catholics”. And it seems that they have a belief that is like the fundamentalist doctrine of “once saved, always saved” except there’s is “once baptized Catholic, always saved and always Catholic”. I’m not saying that every “cradle Catholic” is like this. There are many “cradle Catholics” who are models of the Catholic faith such as my wife.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I hear nothing but complaints about the Church from some Catholics. But most of these complaints are blaming the Church for doctrines that she got directly from Christ. Some of the complaints border on being paranoid and delusional such as the claim that the Church is spying on them in the bedroom just because the Church won’t approve of sexual sins. All of a sudden the Church is being accused of being bigoted because of our sacrament of marriage. It’s as if they think the Church just came up with this doctrine about marriage yesterday. It seems that most if not all of them are “cradle Catholics”. And it seems that they have a belief that is like the fundamentalist doctrine of “once saved, always saved” except there’s is “once baptized Catholic, always saved and always Catholic”. I’m not saying that every “cradle Catholic” is like this. There are many “cradle Catholics” who are models of the Catholic faith such as my wife.

Did Christ come for the righteous? No. Personally, I think it wrong to question anyone sticking with their faith and going to the place of correction.

 

[livingwordunity]

Did Christ come for the righteous? No. Personally, I think it wrong to question anyone sticking with their faith and going to the place of correction.

Thanks. But you answered a question that has nothing to do with the one I asked.

The ones I’m asking about are very militantly against the Catholic Church, and they don’t think the Church has any right to correct them.

I don’t know how that can be considered “sticking with their faith”.

 

[DexUK]

Perhaps you should spend less time condemning these people and more time making the Church feel charitable, friendly and welcoming to all, Catholic and non-Catholic, sinners all…

You don’t know what is in their hearts, what struggles they have, the pain that being in disagreement may cause them, the movement of their consciences etc. Or would you push them away from the Word of God altogether, just because you don’t approve of them? Sounds to me like something that Jesus would not approve of…

 

[Least]

“I hear”

My Dad [he is still alive and you can ask him yourself] always says (he was quoting Grandma ) “Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.”

I am a “cradle Catholic,” but recently took part in [the full] RCIA program, and it was very well attended. It made me feel very confident in my Church, and redoubled in the Faith in my Faith.

I highly recommend stpeterslist.com/

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. – Matthew 16:18

Peter went to Rome and that is the church that has sustained all other Christian faiths ( I don’t want to argue that point with anyone, maybe we could play some flag football over it?).

Pride cometh before a fall, but you can boast in THE LORD, and walka proud, walka proud.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thanks. But you answered a question that has nothing to do with the one I asked.

The ones I’m asking about are very militantly against the Catholic Church, and they don’t think the Church has any right to correct them.

Yet they keep coming. Neither of us can see the intent of their heart. Mine is hope that they seek the fullness of His Truth, and I pray they keep coming.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Perhaps you should spend less time condemning these people and more time making the Church feel charitable, friendly and welcoming to all, Catholic and non-Catholic, sinners all…

You don’t know what is in their hearts, what struggles they have, the pain that being in disagreement may cause them, the movement of their consciences etc. Or would you push them away from the Word of God altogether, just because you don’t approve of them? Sounds to me like something that Jesus would not approve of…

 

[Least]

Tell them not to talk you out of your Christianity, because that is the only thing that keeps you from hunting them.

 

[livingwordunity]

Perhaps you should spend less time condemning these people and more time making the Church feel charitable, friendly and welcoming to all, Catholic and non-Catholic, sinners all…

You don’t know what is in their hearts, what struggles they have, the pain that being in disagreement may cause them, the movement of their consciences etc. Or would you push them away from the Word of God altogether, just because you don’t approve of them? Sounds to me like something that Jesus would not approve of…

Emotional straw man. I asked a question. I did not condemn anyone. I hope everyone of them will repent and be saved. By the way, you just judged me. Do you know what’s in my heart?

 

[LisaA]

I hear nothing but complaints about the Church from some Catholics. But most of these complaints are blaming the Church for doctrines that she got directly from Christ. Some of the complaints border on being paranoid and delusional such as the claim that the Church is spying on them in the bedroom just because the Church won’t approve of sexual sins. All of a sudden the Church is being accused of being bigoted because of our sacrament of marriage. It’s as if they think the Church just came up with this doctrine about marriage yesterday. It seems that most if not all of them are “cradle Catholics”. And it seems that they have a belief that is like the fundamentalist doctrine of “once saved, always saved” except there’s is “once baptized Catholic, always saved and always Catholic”. I’m not saying that every “cradle Catholic” is like this. There are many “cradle Catholics” who are models of the Catholic faith such as my wife.

I think some of them think they will rescue us poor foolish practicing Catholics from “the wh**re of Babylon” or something. I have always been amazed at the self described Catholics here on CAF and also those I encounter at my Parish, who are in staunch opposition with issues from abortion to gay marriage to female “priests.” They proudly sport Obama stickers on their cars and pontificate on how the Church needs to “come into the 21st Century.” While I am glad these skeptics still attend Mass because their hearts might turn, I don’t like it when they publically call the Church out on their pet subjects.

I don’t get it. When I learned about and then rejected the position of the Methodist church with respect to abortion (they support it) I left and shortly thereafter starting inquiry regarding the Catholic Church. I wrote little notes to the Pastor whom I liked very much as well as several good friends and just explained that I couldn’t accept the position regarding life issues and thus found a place where I felt at home. FWIW everyone was very kind and the Pastor said were he not in his mid 40s with a disabled wife and two kids in college, he would leave the Methodist church as well. It would never have occurred to me to write a nasty LTE or haunt a Methodist board with my criticisms of the church.

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

I think some of them think they will rescue us poor foolish practicing Catholics from “the wh**re of Babylon” or something. I have always been amazed at the self described Catholics here on CAF and also those I encounter at my Parish, who are in staunch opposition with issues from abortion to gay marriage to female “priests.” They proudly sport Obama stickers on their cars and pontificate on how the Church needs to “come into the 21st Century.” While I am glad these skeptics still attend Mass because their hearts might turn, I don’t like it when they publically call the Church out on their pet subjects.

I don’t get it. When I learned about and then rejected the position of the Methodist church with respect to abortion (they support it) I left and shortly thereafter starting inquiry regarding the Catholic Church. I wrote little notes to the Pastor whom I liked very much as well as several good friends and just explained that I couldn’t accept the position regarding life issues and thus found a place where I felt at home. FWIW everyone was very kind and the Pastor said were he not in his mid 40s with a disabled wife and two kids in college, he would leave the Methodist church as well. It would never have occurred to me to write a nasty LTE or haunt a Methodist board with my criticisms of the church.

Lisa

When they say that the Catholic Church needs to “come into the 21st Century” that means they want the Church to conform to them instead of the other way around. I think it comes down to pride.

 

[DexUK]

Emotional straw man. I asked a question. I did not condemn anyone. I hope everyone of them will repent and be saved. By the way, you just judged me. Do you know what’s in my heart?

Emotional straw man? You’re the one angrily complaining about the beliefs of other people. You ask what business they have staying in the Catholic Church? To me and the rest of the world that looks like you judging them for doing so and finding them wanting. If you felt that they should stay in the Church you wouldn’t have asked the question. Your judgement is implicit.

To me that looks like you’ve forgotten that old valuable piece of advice: judge not lest you yourself be judged. You have judged, and now you don’t seem to like the fact that you have been called on it and found to be acting in a not necessarily Christian-like manner…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Emotional straw man. I asked a question. I did not condemn anyone. I hope everyone of them will repent and be saved. By the way, you just judged me. Do you know what’s in my heart?

It was not the same as separating people of ‘bad Catholics’ and ‘good cradle Catholics?’

Motes and beams, what in your eye?

 

[livingwordunity]

Yet they keep coming. Neither of us can see the intent of their heart. Mine is hope that they seek the fullness of His Truth, and I pray they keep coming.

We can’t see into their hearts, but we can judge what people say and do.

Matthew Chapter 7

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit.
18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
21 "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
24 “Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock;
25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand;
27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”

 

[DexUK]

We can’t see into their hearts, but we can judge what they say and do.

No… WE do not judge them. God does.

Whatever should be their due will be in the fullness of time. It is not our place to take God’s role in it, otherwise we will inevitably find our faults shown back to us.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We can’t see into their hearts, but we can judge what they say and do.

This thread reminds me of the following passage.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I am a publican, sinner. I am no better than any one else. It is not my place to say who should be allowed to come to the body of Christ. I am no better than anyone else.

 

[livingwordunity]

No… WE do not judge them. God does.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.” - Jesus Christ

 

[LisaA]

Emotional straw man? You’re the one angrily complaining about the beliefs of other people. You ask what business they have staying in the Catholic Church? To me and the rest of the world that looks like you judging them for doing so and finding them wanting. If you felt that they should stay in the Church you wouldn’t have asked the question. Your judgement is implicit.

To me that looks like you’ve forgotten that old valuable piece of advice: judge not lest you yourself be judged. You have judged, and now you don’t seem to like the fact that you have been called on it and found to be acting in a not necessarily Christian-like manner…

Dex, the only one who sounds angry here is you. I don’t think the OP condmned the people who stay in the Church for staying but just trying to understand. I admit wondering this myself. As a convert I chose the Catholic Church. At the time I converted I didn’t agree or understand a lot of the teaching but I kept working at it, reading and listening. I soon realized that some of the doctrines i might have rejected at face value, I accepted once I understood.

I too wonder why people stay when they are in such sharp disagreement. I don’t resent it, I don’t dislike them for coming, I hope their minds are open to the Word and maybe their hearts will change. But I still don’t understand those who are so vehemently opposed to Church teaching but stay. To some extent I think they are trying to form allies. Maybe they are there because they like the music and tune out the homily. Or they have friends and family.

More of a curiousity than a condemnation IMO
Lisa

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“You will know them by their fruits.” - Jesus Christ

What kind of fruits does pushing away produce?

 

[livingwordunity]

Dex, the only one who sounds angry here is you. I don’t think the OP condmned the people who stay in the Church for staying but just trying to understand. I admit wondering this myself. As a convert I chose the Catholic Church. At the time I converted I didn’t agree or understand a lot of the teaching but I kept working at it, reading and listening. I soon realized that some of the doctrines i might have rejected at face value, I accepted once I understood.

I too wonder why people stay when they are in such sharp disagreement. I don’t resent it, I don’t dislike them for coming, I hope their minds are open to the Word and maybe their hearts will change. But I still don’t understand those who are so vehemently opposed to Church teaching but stay. To some extent I think they are trying to form allies. Maybe they are there because they like the music and tune out the homily. Or they have friends and family.

More of a curiousity than a condemnation IMO
Lisa

Yep. It just doesn’t make any logical sense to me since they seem to act in complete contradiction.