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Padraig1972
Guest
Why do you pray it if you do not belive in it`s powers? No offence, but i find this posting incredibly sad. Yes, it saddens me.
Why do some traditional Catholics reject the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
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Hesychios
Guest
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Many, if not most older ‘traditionalists’ started out as ‘nostalgaists’. They didn’t know it growing up so they would not be comfortable with it.The rosary evolved over time, but the people by nature prefer the form they know, not older forms or newer forms.
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The chronology does not fit precisely in with the order of the others, the first three were composed as a thematic set and repeated that way for generations. The Luminous Mysteries should follow the Joyful Mysteries and precede the Sorrowful Mysteries but people aren’t used to it.
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Some people are bothered by the idea that this implies the rosary was not already ‘perfect’ or ‘sufficient’ as it was.
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There could also be a personal unspoken rejection of Pope John Paul underlying some of the animus.
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Hesychios
Guest
Your post sounds very sad and disappointing to me.
It is -1- a series of meditations on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ (that alone has benefits without the Hail Mary prayers), and -2- it is a circlet of requests asking someone else (the BVM) to pray for you. You are not entitled to those prayers on your behalf, you can ask but you cannot presume to get them.
If you take the attitude that the rosary just automatically works, and that is why you pray it, you have reduced a useful and helpful devotion to magic and conjuring, which is a very dangerous thing to add to a Christian’s religion.
Do it because it improves you, not because it ‘works’.
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Lujack
Guest
There are three kinds of “rejection”, I think, and not all of them are the same. There are the people who just don’t feel that it adds anything to their rosary, or don’t feel it fits with their own private devotions-this is, of course, fine, as the rosary is a private devotion. There are people who are very nostalgic and don’t like any kind of change, and so don’t pray the Luminous Mysteries-this is really fine too; there’s nothing wrong with structuring a private devotion for essentially arbitrary reasons.
There are also people, though, who attribute some sinister motive to Pope John Paul II or accuse him of violating some deep tradition and doing something wrong by offering the Luminous Mysteries. That hasn’t popped up on this thread, but that’s not really okay.
There are also people, though, who attribute some sinister motive to Pope John Paul II or accuse him of violating some deep tradition and doing something wrong by offering the Luminous Mysteries. That hasn’t popped up on this thread, but that’s not really okay.
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Padraig1972
Guest
That was not my intention. I pray the rosary to get nearer to God and Blessed Virgin Mary. As my parish priest said in 2010: strive daily to pray the rosary to develop-strengthen your faith, pray for the sick, the poor, for the world, for those you love, those that has got a horn in your side and pray to deepen your faith.
Guess what? I do listen to my priest. Where and please; tell me where is the wrongdoing and crime in that?
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Laudate_Dominum
Guest
So… Saint Dominic, Bl. Alan, Saint Louis, Saint Alphonsus (and countless others) have been praying an incomplete rosary? And not only that… Our Lady has continually recommended an incomplete rosary to the faithful?
The Sorrowful Mysteries are the public life of Christ. This is what He was all about.
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Padraig1972
Guest
I fear that the attitude that keeps going in threads about the rosary will spread to mass, prayers and devotions in general. And in the end, we will talk like seculars and saying:
Please…brothers/sisters…don`t let bad attitude make things evil.
- Faith is a private matter
- Going to mass does not matter now or as i get often: why do you need to pray-go to mass?
- No, let us stay home today
Please…brothers/sisters…don`t let bad attitude make things evil.
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floresco
Guest
Wow, could you find a way to write more negatively about traditional Catholics?
To the OP: obviously an answer from someone who appears to have issues with traditionalists is not as helpful as answers from traditionalists themselves. Although I suppose it depends on your reason for asking. Are you wanting to understand traditional Catholics or are you hoping to build up your repetoire of negative stereotypes?
For the record, I am a convert, and therefore completely uninfluenced by childhood nostalgia. It amuses me when people attempt to dismiss my beliefs as nostalgia.
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Padraig1972
Guest
floresco: I am a convert too, but still thinking it is important to preserve the traditions and enjoy the rich fruits that it bears. Rather than dismissing it and saying: no, no - the tomorrow beats everything.
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Melchior_1
Guest
Holy Father Dominic did not have anything to do with the Rosary during his life time, it was formulated 250-ish years after his death. The Order he founded did popularize it however, which is why people associate it with the Order.
The Dominican Rosary has evolved over time. The Luminous Mysteries are just one more evolution in this private, yet powerful, devotion.
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thistle
Guest
That’s what I mean about some people getting uptight about a private devotion.
By the way I see you did not read my post carefully. I said the Luminous Mysteries covered the public MINISTRY of Christ. The Sorrowful Mysteries are not about his public ministry.
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Luvtosew
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Padraig1972
Guest
I get uptight because certain people in this thread accuses people like me of using the rosary as a magic formular or for personal gain. And for example accuses one of being disobedient to a blessed pope.
Praying the rosary to achive personal gains or make it a magic formulas is dangerous. Yes. Like living as a catholic, i have no guarantee about anything. You just have to do good, attend mass, do your duties in church and treat your next as good as one possibly can do.
Yet, you still have no guarantees. But trying to develop and strengthen faith. Now, if i understand what certain people here thinks, that is a bad thing. And this is the traditionalist forum. What is happening? Is this some kind of a joke or set up?
I begin to wonder if the best thing would be to leave this place and concider it a bad nightmare.
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figs
Guest
Here’s an excerpt from an interesting page explaining the evolution of the “Rosary”
We have to keep in mind that over the centuries there has been a considerable evolution in the form that this devotion called the Rosary has taken. We have to remember that in the time of St. Dominic:
The HAIL MARY did not exist as we pray it today. Only the first half of it was then used. The word JESUS was not added until the 14th century, and the second half of the prayer came later still.
The OUR FATHER and the GLORY BE TO THE FATHER were not then part of the Rosary.
The Mysteries of the Rosary were not fixed as they are now. Even in the 15th century in the time of ALAN DE RUPE, O.P., who was responsible for the revival of the Rosary devotion 250 years after the time of St. Dominic, the Rosary he preached was the Marian Psalter of 150 Hail Marys and 150 mysteries. These were divided into three groups of fifties dedicated to the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious mysteries. The fifteen mysteries in use today were officially established by Pope Pius V in 1569.
There was no pendent (the cross and five extra beads) as we have now.
The very word “Rosary” taken from the Latin word “rosarium” meaning rose garden, or bouquet of roses, was not used in the time of Dominic as applied to this devotion. So obviously there would be no reference to that term in documents of his time.
rosary-center.org/ll49n5.htm
We have to keep in mind that over the centuries there has been a considerable evolution in the form that this devotion called the Rosary has taken. We have to remember that in the time of St. Dominic:
The HAIL MARY did not exist as we pray it today. Only the first half of it was then used. The word JESUS was not added until the 14th century, and the second half of the prayer came later still.
The OUR FATHER and the GLORY BE TO THE FATHER were not then part of the Rosary.
The Mysteries of the Rosary were not fixed as they are now. Even in the 15th century in the time of ALAN DE RUPE, O.P., who was responsible for the revival of the Rosary devotion 250 years after the time of St. Dominic, the Rosary he preached was the Marian Psalter of 150 Hail Marys and 150 mysteries. These were divided into three groups of fifties dedicated to the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious mysteries. The fifteen mysteries in use today were officially established by Pope Pius V in 1569.
There was no pendent (the cross and five extra beads) as we have now.
The very word “Rosary” taken from the Latin word “rosarium” meaning rose garden, or bouquet of roses, was not used in the time of Dominic as applied to this devotion. So obviously there would be no reference to that term in documents of his time.
rosary-center.org/ll49n5.htm
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Rich_C
Guest
What did you expect? This isn’t Fish Eaters, the traditionalist position can’t be taken for granted. I think you should stay, you add a lot to the conversation.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
OP-I don’t to me the Mysteries of the Gospel are the purpose of praying the Rosary. So I find the Lum. another dimension to the whole.
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barb_finnegan
Guest
Exactly!
When the Luminous Mysteries came out in late 2002, I was working in the local Catholic bookstore. Whenever customers came in to get cards and / or booklets on the Rosary, I would always mention that the Luminous Mysteries ‘filled in’ the gap between the childhood of Our Lord (Joyful) and His Passion (Sorrowful). Some people liked the ‘new’ mysteries, and others didn’t.
But I have heard some very nasty comments from ‘some’ traditional Catholics, saying, “The Pope has ‘changed’ the Rosary!”
Whenever I hear that, I try to say, “He didn’t ‘change’ the Rosary with the Luminous Mysteries-he merely ‘suggested’ them. You’re not ‘forced’ or ‘obliged’ to use them. It’s up to you if you want to or not!”
I used to do them myself, but now I don’t. But if I find myself in a setting where they are said (such as in a group), then I’ll pray them. No skin off my nose, as the saying goes…
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Rich_C
Guest
Like a boss. The Mass and the current Rosary? He may be my new favorite pope.
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Hesychios
Guest
I did’t think my comments were negative at all, and I don’t see why you should think so.Wow, could you find a way to write more negatively about traditional Catholics?
Having lived through it, I know that the yearning for a return to the Latin Mass was primarily nostalgia. This is why I stated that it started out that way, I did not state that it is still that way.
People started buying recordings of the old Latin Mass for just that reason. I bought them and my father bought them.
I had plenty of experience with the old Latin Mass before the changes, it was all we had for years. I witnessed the turmoil and confusion in the parish as we had to change. I saw the attendance drop off and most of all I remember the older folks who became dispirited. I visited the SSPX occasionally when it first started to spread around. I spoke to the attendees and shared a lot of thoughts with them.
I can tell you now without reservation that the primary motivation of most of those people was nostalgia and with some (actually many) of them a strong dose of bitterness.
This is why everyone wanted to bring back the church of the '30’s - '40’s & '50’s. Not because it was the best expression of traditional Catholicism, it was because that was what they remembered and wanted to recover. They were not real traditionalists inj any ideological sense, they were depressed and dispirited people full of nostalgia for ‘the good old days’.
Newcomers and young people want a more dignified form of liturgy than the Ordinary Form, and I don’t blame them one bit. But the only option they have is the one the SSPX fought so hard for them to get, and that was fueled by nostalgia.
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gary1
Guest
I love the Rosary as it was. The three traditional Mysteries are redemptive. I pray them every day and don’t include the Luminious Mysteries.
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