Why do some traditional Catholics reject the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?

[Padraig1972]

But I, for one, am not part of any society or confraternity, and don’t pray the rosary to gain any indulgences. I pray the rosary to meditate on the mysteries of the life of Christ. How I pray the rosary is not any more right or better than the ways anyone else chooses to pray it, it is a purely optional devotion.

Pray as you can, not as you cant!!
What matters is that you pray!

I also do meditate over the mysteries. It is really a great thing to do. It is such a joy and very learning. I think in whole this row-debate after a short nights sleep that it is important not to forget the beauty of the prayer of the rosary.

 

[figs]

But I, for one, am not part of any society or confraternity, and don’t pray the rosary to gain any indulgences. I pray the rosary to meditate on the mysteries of the life of Christ. How I pray the rosary is not any more right or better than the ways anyone else chooses to pray it, it is a purely optional devotion.

Pray as you can, not as you cant!!
What matters is that you pray!

 

[JReducation]

Sure, people can make up their own mysteries if they want to. But then it is not the rosary that Pope Pius V instituted in 1579 with 15 mysteries.

If people want to pray five, 10, 15, 20, 50 or 100 mysteries…it is their choice. But i do not support it (and if asked: i do speak up against it) and follow what i have promised to do weekly through The Rosary Confraternity.

The Luminous Mysteries are fine, and too bad they were not instituted in 1579. But i accept the history and leave it there.

Instituted is not the canonical term. To institute implies to make something the law of the Church. The rosary has never been the law of the Church. It is part of the Church’s Marian cult. What Pope Pius V wrote is called an Affirmation. He affirmed that the rosary was indeed Catholic, that it was approved for private use (will get to that in a minute), and he presented the Dominican form, which was logical, because he was a Dominican. Had he instituted it, all other forms of the rosary would have been banished. Such is not the case. There are at least two forms that I know of, maybe more. The Franciscans have one and the Redemptorists have another.

To get back to private use. Even if you’re in a crowd of one million people praying the rosary, it is still private prayer, because while the rosary is Catholic, it is not the prayer of the Church. The prayer of the Church is always liturgical. The rosary is not liturgical. The Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours trump the rosary in dignity and in precedence. Meaning that if one has to choose between the LOTH and the rosary, because one does not have time for both and would like to say both, the choice should be in favor of the LOTH. You will find this more often in religious congregations than any other group. They are bound to a ministry and their schedule revolves around that ministry. The LOTH takes precedence and the rosary is left up to the individuals.

This is another good example of how the rosary was never instituted, but was affirmed. It was never mandatory, not even for Dominicans. They do not pray the rosary in common. They do pray the LOTH in common. When they pray the rosary in common, such as when they go on community retreat, they pray the Luminous mysteries as well.

The Luminous mysteries are an option that one can use or not use.

It’s time that we give up the silly arguments about the traditional form of the rosary. The traditional form of the rosary is traditional with lower case “t”. It evolved over centuries. The Luminous mysteries are just another stage in the process of evolution. When the mysteries were first added to the rosary, they were looked at with suspicion too. The Rosary started with Our Fathers and Hail Mary’s. There were no mysteries. Those came later. Then the Hail Mary was mended to include the prayer for the hour of death, which was not part of the Hail Mary used in the original rosary. Somewhere in there, the Franciscans came out with the seven decade rosary. Later the Redemptorists came out with the Rosary of the Passion. Then the Franciscan went back and added another set of 7 mysteries. Now their are 14. Some of the Eastern Churches added their own touch to it.

Then there are touches that are added by cultures. Among the Hispanic population, a rosary is not considered complete if you don’t pray the Litany of the Blessed Mother. In Italy the rosary includes an Act of Contrition.

Pastorally and theologically, this whole discussion is fruitless. The focus must always be on the power of prayer and the devotion to Our Lord and his mother. The function of the rosary is not to divide. It was created as a way of bringing people to pray together in a manner that was simple for them to follow without the use of many books, chants and rituals. We’re turning it into something that it was not meant to be. We’re speaking about it as if it were a liturgical function governed by rubrics. There are no rubrics for the rosary. There are customs.

We need to back off trying to convince each other to pray or not to pray the Luminous Mysteries or any of the Dominican mysteries. The Church does not mandate any of them. The Church mandates prayer.

We had a very sad experience because of this type of programming. A very nice young man applied to our community and was admitted as a postulant. We had to let him go, because he was so programmed, that he did not feel comfortable with the Franciscan Crown and he continuously excused himself from at least one of the hours of the Divine Office to catch up on his rosary. He had a noble habit of praying the 15 decades. When he was tight for time, he sacrifice Liturgy and fraternity for the rosary. That’s contrary to the spirit of the rosary. No matter how much I told him that Our Lady would be happier if he prayed the LOTH with his brothers in union with the Universal Church, even if he could only say 10 decades instead of five, he was so programmed that this had to be done this way, that there was nothing that I could do to help alleviate his scruples.

We do people a disservice when we teach them incorrectly on these matters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Padraig1972]

Instituted is not the canonical term. To institute implies to make something the law of the Church. The rosary has never been the law of the Church. It is part of the Church’s Marian cult. What Pope Pius V wrote is called an Affirmation. He affirmed that the rosary was indeed Catholic, that it was approved for private use (will get to that in a minute), and he presented the Dominican form, which was logical, because he was a Dominican. Had he instituted it, all other forms of the rosary would have been banished. Such is not the case. There are at least two forms that I know of, maybe more. The Franciscans have one and the Redemptorists have another.

To get back to private use. Even if you’re in a crowd of one million people praying the rosary, it is still private prayer, because while the rosary is Catholic, it is not the prayer of the Church. The prayer of the Church is always liturgical. The rosary is not liturgical. The Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours trump the rosary in dignity and in precedence. Meaning that if one has to choose between the LOTH and the rosary, because one does not have time for both and would like to say both, the choice should be in favor of the LOTH. You will find this more often in religious congregations than any other group. They are bound to a ministry and their schedule revolves around that ministry. The LOTH takes precedence and the rosary is left up to the individuals.

This is another good example of how the rosary was never instituted, but was affirmed. It was never mandatory, not even for Dominicans. They do not pray the rosary in common. They do pray the LOTH in common. When they pray the rosary in common, such as when they go on community retreat, they pray the Luminous mysteries as well.

The Luminous mysteries are an option that one can use or not use.

It’s time that we give up the silly arguments about the traditional form of the rosary. The traditional form of the rosary is traditional with lower case “t”. It evolved over centuries. The Luminous mysteries are just another stage in the process of evolution. When the mysteries were first added to the rosary, they were looked at with suspicion too. The Rosary started with Our Fathers and Hail Mary’s. There were no mysteries. Those came later. Then the Hail Mary was mended to include the prayer for the hour of death, which was not part of the Hail Mary used in the original rosary. Somewhere in there, the Franciscans came out with the seven decade rosary. Later the Redemptorists came out with the Rosary of the Passion. Then the Franciscan went back and added another set of 7 mysteries. Now their are 14. Some of the Eastern Churches added their own touch to it.

Then there are touches that are added by cultures. Among the Hispanic population, a rosary is not considered complete if you don’t pray the Litany of the Blessed Mother. In Italy the rosary includes an Act of Contrition.

Pastorally and theologically, this whole discussion is fruitless. The focus must always be on the power of prayer and the devotion to Our Lord and his mother. The function of the rosary is not to divide. It was created as a way of bringing people to pray together in a manner that was simple for them to follow without the use of many books, chants and rituals. We’re turning it into something that it was not meant to be. We’re speaking about it as if it were a liturgical function governed by rubrics. There are no rubrics for the rosary. There are customs.

We need to back off trying to convince each other to pray or not to pray the Luminous Mysteries or any of the Dominican mysteries. The Church does not mandate any of them. The Church mandates prayer.

We had a very sad experience because of this type of programming. A very nice young man applied to our community and was admitted as a postulant. We had to let him go, because he was so programmed, that he did not feel comfortable with the Franciscan Crown and he continuously excused himself from at least one of the hours of the Divine Office to catch up on his rosary. He had a noble habit of praying the 15 decades. When he was tight for time, he sacrifice Liturgy and fraternity for the rosary. That’s contrary to the spirit of the rosary. No matter how much I told him that Our Lady would be happier if he prayed the LOTH with his brothers in union with the Universal Church, even if he could only say 10 decades instead of five, he was so programmed that this had to be done this way, that there was nothing that I could do to help alleviate his scruples.

We do people a disservice when we teach them incorrectly on these matters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

So what do you recommend? Where in the rosary, if that is needed should the act of contrition be prayed and the short form or the entire form? Or does that apply just in Italy?

I am thankfull for the correction and have learned something new-important today. I am “too” programmed as well.

 

[JReducation]

So what do you recommend? Where in the rosary, if that is needed should the act of contrition be prayed and the short form or the entire form? Or does that apply just in Italy?

I am thankfull for the correction and have learned something new-important today. I am “too” programmed as well.

It’s not needed at all. What I was trying to say was that as we travel through different cultures we find that there is no standard form of the rosary other than the five decades and up to now the 15 mysteries. The mysteries came after the rosary was in use. From there, different ethnic groups took it and ran with it. Some people as litanies, others add the Act of Contrition. Some people add scripture readings between the mysteries. In Spain they add four ejaculations between each mystery.

"Oh Mary conceived without sin . . . "

“Pray for us Holy Mother of God . . .”

“Mother of the Word Incarnate . …”

"May the souls of the faithful departed . . . "

Then they add the "Oh my Jesus . . . "

If you tell some of the older folks that those are not part of the rosary they call you a heretic. That’s why I don’t mess with people’s rosary. Let them pray whatever they want.

People get more sticky about the rosary than they do about the LOTH, even though many parishes have been trying for years to introduce them at least one day week. It evening prayer is going to replace the Rosary on Tues night (example), you may find your friary egged.

It reminds me of a funny story. I and two brothers were sent to cover a diocesan parish while the priest was recovering from a car accident, about three months. We prayed the Divine Office in the chapel. The first week that we were there, no one told us that the people came to pray the rosary before morning mass.

We were impressed that people joined us for Lauds. One day, after mass, a little old lady said to me, “Excuse me Father, can you pray some place else, because we need the chapel for the rosary.”

It was the first time I was ever told to go pray elsewhere. I laughed with a promise that we would pray the LOTH 15 min earlier, if she could get her people to attend and they could pray the rosary between the LOTH and mass. We struck a deal.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Actually there are rules. If you are a member of the Confraternity for example, or saying the rosary to satisfy your scapular promise, there are rules.

If you break them, fine, but what you are saying might not really be a rosary.

If I just say one Ave for each decade and get through 15 decades in 5 minutes … I haven’t fulfilled the promises!

Yeah, but discussing the Rosary Confraternity (which I belong to) and the indulgences attached to the rosary are another conversation. I am talking about simply praying the rosary as a devotion.

Also, as another poster said, Pius V did not “institute” the rosary (even so, Pius V and John Paul II have exactly the same authority). It was a devotion that grew organically, but again, we should note that indulgences, promises, and so on attached to it are another matter. I am talking about scrupulous people on these boards who speak as if they fear it might be a sin to not pray the rosary “correctly” every time they ever say it.

=

 

[w0lfy]

I Love the Holy Rosary.

I myself have discussed the inclusion of the Luminous mysteries with my priest & fellow parishioners @ my parish about this very topic. For the most part I have heard both sides of the discussion,as presented on this forum/thread, in my own parish.

My Priest stated what a lot here have stated. That the rosary is a very personal devotion & each will & should treat it as so. Such as,Some will only say a single chaplet daily & some will say a daily rosary including all 3/4 mysteries as directed in the apparitions (approved by the Magisterium) of Our Lady to St. Dominic. “My children, you will all pray your Rosary daily, even if it means to stop the work you are doing. You will excuse yourself and retire to a quiet place in your office threshold. The Rosary must be said at least once a day, the fifteen decades.” - Jesus, June 18, 1984

Luminous Mysteries?

As a recent convert , i must say I am grateful of the offering of the 4th mystery by Pope John Paul II, as for me, it completes the meditations on the life of Our Lord. What I mean is for me it truly helps me to learn & meditate on the life of Jesus & in doing so helps me grow in my union with the Lord.
As someone that did not grow up in the catholic faith, nor in a practicing protestant family, I find that the rosary is a great tool for learning the life of Jesus & an excellent for teaching someone how to pray that may have never been exposed to prayer before.
For me the inclusion of the 4th mystery helps me better explore the life of Jesus. Meditating on each mystery & being aware of the words & meaning of the different prayers of the Rosary.
Again for me,The Rosary has taught me not only to pray but to feel very comfortable in doing so, The meditations on the Mysteries have helped me grow closer to a once unknown Lord, Jesus the Son of God as well as creating both an awareness & reverence for Our Blessed Lady, Mary, Mother of God.

I think what i am experiencing thru my prayer of the Rosary is what was intended by its use. That is, someone unknowledgeable about the faith or life of Jesus & prayer, thru the practice of the Rosary, learning not only to pray & the life of Our Lord, but also how to begin a relationship with the Blessed Virgin Marry & the Son of God Jesus.(relationship s a hot word, in my use its means the way in which we strive for union with our Lord)
I myself started praying the rosary before I ever spoke to a catholic or stepped foot in a catholic church. The rosary introduced me slowly to the Lord & his Blessed Mother & in turn lead me to months of research ending with me speaking with my Priest & Coming into the Church receiving all 3 Sacraments of the Rites of Christian Initiation the past Easter vigil. I cherish my Rosary & time spent in reciting the prayers & meditations in the devotion.
And while i have had this fact confirmed thru research & conversations, I knew from experience that the Rosary is a powerful form of prayer, for me any way.

The only thing that bothers me is that in public devotions, for me it is said to fast & leaves little time to reflect on the Mysteries, but I am told I will get better at that the more i preform the devotion. Though i do like to go slow on the prayers, giving time for meditations, & when I can, I look up the Scripture pertaining to each mystery prior to starting that decade. I find this is particularly helpful in aiding the meditations.

anyways thats my two cents

 

[Hesychios]

Hello brother,

It reminds me of a funny story. I and two brothers were sent to cover a diocesan parish while the priest was recovering from a car accident, about three months. We prayed the Divine Office in the chapel. The first week that we were there, no one told us that the people came to pray the rosary before morning mass.

This became a big problem for eastern Catholics in Europe, even for Orthodox congregations which spent some time in the past under the Unia.

As you probably know, the Liturgy of the Hours, or Divine Praises, is traditionally an important part of the parish community prayer life and spirituality in the Byzantine rites. The entire cycle of prayers is very catechetical, and would be commonly done at the parish level as well as the cathedral.

The truth is, it is hard enough to get people to take time out of their busy lives to do even just vespers on a daily basis, and the best attendance one could hope for would be the time before Mass, which we call Orthros (essentially Matins/Lauds I guess). This is already a very limited space of time since there is only one liturgy on a given day and people traveling some distance can only get ther so early, however, the communal recitation of the rosary pretty much overtook that practice over the last couple of centuries.

Nowadays, under a mandate to return to their original patrimony the eastern churches (in some places) are struggling to restore the LOTH as a parish practice, it isn’t really going too well. The communal recitation of the rosary seems to have pride of place in the people’s minds and they are very resistant to giving up that precious time before Mass for the Divine Office.

It is amazing how emotional the issue can become.

 

[JReducation]

Hello brother, This became a big problem for eastern Catholics in Europe, even for Orthodox congregations which spent some time in the past under the Unia.

It is amazing how emotional the issue can become.

It’s incredible how emotional this has become. When you have such an attachment to anything that it takes precedence over liturgy, there is a very serious problem.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Alfonsus]

I totally agree with Br. JR and Hesychios.
One thing that contribute to it is the rampant “promises” and “private revelation messages” that fill the liturgical gaps, as if in competition between the legitimate Church authority with heaven itself.

It is funny, while the seers themselves, as legitimate mystics, feel happy and truly resign their case to the Church, the laity seems different.

For the mystics, the Church judges the private revelation. For most of the laity, their interpretation of private revelations judge the Church.

 

[Padraig1972]

It’s incredible how emotional this has become. When you have such an attachment to anything that it takes precedence over liturgy, there is a very serious problem.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Brother, just a little detail…nothing is more important than mass. It is the highlight of the day. The Liturgy of Hours for example, i have yet to learn. The rosary is a private devotion. I got that and understand that.

Liking old values sure, going insane - no.

 

[figs]

It’s incredible how emotional this has become. When you have such an attachment to anything that it takes precedence over liturgy, there is a very serious problem.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Brother,
I’m not so sure the liturgy takes second place to the Rosary.
What I mean is looking at the history of the rosary, it was designed for the laypeople (yes the illiterate) to be able to offer prayer. This is ‘our’ own devotion (our meaning the lay people).
As you know the LOTH has usually been identified with the clergy. Yes, the people are opening up to the LOTH, especially here lol.

Heading out into the world most people look at the LOTH and say, “Whew, I got to learn that PLUS carry a book with me not to mention pray 4-5 times a day and it all looks so formal, and, and, and…” In the end they just see it as something best reserved for the clergy. Wrongly, I know, but thats how it goes.

Now, take the rosary. Portable, can be broken up by decades, can be said anywhere, don’t even need the beads can use the fingers. The prayers are simple to learn and once learned one branches out and learns the meditations.
The comforting action of running beads through the fingers as well as meditating is hard to beat, now couple all that with a prayer that is pleasing to God, Jesus & Mary as well as supported by the Church and Popes, and you have a winner.
In my opinion that is what makes the rosary so emotional.

I’m not that great at explaining myself online but maybe some of this has made a bit of sense.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I prayed the Luminous mysteries last night. I think they’re great!

I’d like to learn alot of other ways to pray the rosary.

When I pray the rosary I branch off from the rosary prayers and talk to God and to Mary about how they relate to my life.

Am I doing the right thing?

I pray a scriptural rosary because I get lost if I pray 10 Hail Marys in a row–it’s hard for me to keep up with the beads–I just use the scriptural rosary book and pray before the blessed sacrament.

I’m a member of the Militia immaculata and have made the total consecration to Mary under the kolbe method and the de Monfort method.

All I know is that I receive much grace from praying the rosary–I think it’s because it brings the scriptures alive–the Blessed mother is the greatest intercessor one can have–and praying it before the Blessed Sacrament is even more powerful because Jesus is present in the chapel.

I’m a new convert–does anyone have any other suggestions for incorporating the Rosary into my spiritual life?

What’s the Franciscan Rosary like? I guess what I need to do is go on the internet and look up the many ways of praying the Rosary.

I thank Catholic answers–because of it i was introduced to the Rosary and to the Divine Mercy devotion.

I think both of them are a no brainer for any Catholic.

no you don’t have to do them–but they sure do work for me and they’ve worked for alot of people.

What I need to get into is the Liturgy of the hours.

I would agree that the prayer of the church–the liturgy of the hours–is something i should pray.

 

[JReducation]

Brother, just a little detail…nothing is more important than mass. It is the highlight of the day. The Liturgy of Hours for example, i have yet to learn. The rosary is a private devotion. I got that and understand that.

Liking old values sure, going insane - no.

Actually, the LOTH is the extension of the mass. This has been the tradition of the East and West from the time of the Apostles. They are inseparable. That’s why the Divine Office is liturgy as much as the mass is liturgy.

Brother,
I’m not so sure the liturgy takes second place to the Rosary.
What I mean is looking at the history of the rosary, it was designed for the laypeople (yes the illiterate) to be able to offer prayer. This is ‘our’ own devotion (our meaning the lay people).
As you know the LOTH has usually been identified with the clergy. Yes, the people are opening up to the LOTH, especially here lol.

Heading out into the world most people look at the LOTH and say, “Whew, I got to learn that PLUS carry a book with me not to mention pray 4-5 times a day and it all looks so formal, and, and, and…” In the end they just see it as something best reserved for the clergy. Wrongly, I know, but thats how it goes.

Now, take the rosary. Portable, can be broken up by decades, can be said anywhere, don’t even need the beads can use the fingers. The prayers are simple to learn and once learned one branches out and learns the meditations.
The comforting action of running beads through the fingers as well as meditating is hard to beat, now couple all that with a prayer that is pleasing to God, Jesus & Mary as well as supported by the Church and Popes, and you have a winner.
In my opinion that is what makes the rosary so emotional.

I’m not that great at explaining myself online but maybe some of this has made a bit of sense.

I understand the practicality of it. What I was pointing out was that in many places, both Latin and Eastern parishes, there has been an effort to introduce the Divine Office, at least Lauds and Vespers, and people object because it’s during the time that they gather to pray the rosary. They don’t get the primacy of the Divine Office over the rosary.

The Church tells us (clergy and religious) to engage the laity in the Divine Office. But many people are not interested in either: rosary of LOTH. Other people can fathom putting off the rosary to a later time so they can pray the Divine Office with the community.

I know a Franciscan parish where some parishioners walked over this. The brother superior ordered the pastor to put in Lauds before morning mass. He did. The brothers would all pour into the chapel for Lauds. There were books for the laity to follow along. There were even instructions for about three weeks before and one or two test runs.

The brothers had just taken over the parish. The bishop had explained to the parishioners that he had made a contract with the Major Superior that the parishioners would accept and cooperate with Franciscan spirituality and tradition. They didn’t have to become Franciscans; but they had to accept the introduction of some Franciscan practices into the parish and the elimination of other things that Franciscans don’t do.

Everyone thought is was all settled. Within a month, there were letters of complaint being sent to the bishop and to the major superior. They tried to open the chapel earlier so that they could pray the rosary earlier and then the LOTH. They didn’t want that either. It had to be at 7:00 or some such time. They argued why couldn’t the friars pray the LOTH earlier.

The superior of the house explained that the house followed a horarium that keeps pace with the region. All of the houses in the region are praying the same hour at the same time, by order of the regional superior and this was not up for discussion. Christ had spoken. Once Christ speaks through the superior, there is not turning back, unless it’s higher superior.

Anyway, the point it that it go emotional beyond the point of reason. No one was saying, “Don’t pray the rosary.” What was being said was, “If you’re in the chapel at this time, you can join the religious in the Divine Office or pray your rosary quietly. If you want to pray it as a group, you can come earlier and we’ll be happy to open the chapel 20 minutes earlier. But the horarium of the religious community is set in stone until it’s changed from above and the common recitation of the rosary is not on the horarium for that time.”

Then there was the issue during the Month of the Rosary when the friars prayed the Crown every evening with the laity. Some people would not come, because it was not the real rosary. It was explained weeks in advance. Little blurbs explaining it’s history were published.

I can see how the Luminous Mysteries can cause some people to get high blood pressure. They don’t understand that it’s custom that has evolved and will continue to evolve. We just won’t be around to see the next stage.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

 

[Robert_Burns]

The Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary has 15 promises given by the Blessed Virgin Mary for those who pray the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary in the prescribed manner.

As far as I know - JPII Never made any such promises for those who pray the Lumenous Mysteries.

In addition - we have several Miracles attributed to the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary - Like (Lepanto for example)

So as for my - I pray 5 Decades of the 15 mystery Holy Rosary as a minimum and sometimes more.

For those who wish to pray the Lumenous Mysteries - I imagine you could opt to pray the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary in the Prescribed manner and then in Addition pray them so long as you prayed the Prescribed Mysteries to obtain the promises - for after all - I do not see anything wrong with praying more…

Pax

 

[JReducation]

The Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary has 15 promises given by the Blessed Virgin Mary for those who pray the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary in the prescribed manner.

As far as I know - JPII Never made any such promises for those who pray the Lumenous Mysteries.

In addition - we have several Miracles attributed to the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary - Like (Lepanto for example)

So as for my - I pray 5 Decades of the 15 mystery Holy Rosary as a minimum and sometimes more.

For those who wish to pray the Lumenous Mysteries - I imagine you could opt to pray the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary in the Prescribed manner and then in Addition pray them so long as you prayed the Prescribed Mysteries to obtain the promises - for after all - I do not see anything wrong with praying more…

Pax

The prescribe manner was never formally approved by the Church. Therefore, it does not bind Catholics. We have to be careful to tell people this. The Church has never had a law that said that this is the way to pray the rosary. As I said above, we never pray 15 mysteries. We have seven. Does that mean that we don’t receive graces or that the promise excludes us?

Do you see why the Church does not endorse the promise?

If she did that, there would be an uproar. There are many versions of the rosary. The 15 decade is the most popular, not the only version. We have to think globally. The Catholic Church is not just the Latin Church and the Rosary is not just the Dominican version. We can’t apply promises or deny promises to people who are out of that context. That’s why this alleged promise was never formally endorsed by the Church. It would leave too many Catholics out: almost the entire East and many religious in the West.

We have to make sure that we tell people that there is a tradition of a promise, but that tradition is not binding on Catholics either in the East or the West. It’s good to have rich traditions. It’s also important not to bind people, where the Church does not bind them.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

 

[figs]

…Anyway, the point it that it go emotional beyond the point of reason. No one was saying, “Don’t pray the rosary.” What was being said was, “If you’re in the chapel at this time, you can join the religious in the Divine Office or pray your rosary quietly. If you want to pray it as a group, you can come earlier and we’ll be happy to open the chapel 20 minutes earlier. But the horarium of the religious community is set in stone until it’s changed from above and the common recitation of the rosary is not on the horarium for that time.”

Then there was the issue during the Month of the Rosary when the friars prayed the Crown every evening with the laity. Some people would not come, because it was not the real rosary. It was explained weeks in advance. Little blurbs explaining it’s history were published.

I can see how the Luminous Mysteries can cause some people to get high blood pressure. They don’t understand that it’s custom that has evolved and will continue to evolve. We just won’t be around to see the next stage.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

That sounds most unfortunate In reading that I couldn’t help but think if it is more a case of being stubborn and uncompromising, instead of rosary over liturgy.
It just sounded more like, “We have our schedule, we’ve had this schedule for years and years, we like our schedule and we ain’t changing our schedule for no body, especially new commers”
Very sad to hear, really is.

 

[JReducation]

That sounds most unfortunate In reading that I couldn’t help but think if it is more a case of being stubborn and uncompromising, instead of rosary over liturgy.
It just sounded more like, “We have our schedule, we’ve had this schedule for years and years, we like our schedule and we ain’t changing our schedule for no body, especially new commers”
Very sad to hear, really is.

I heard about it and I thought something similar to you. My first thought was that this was the kind of thing that kids and seniors often do, because changes come hard for them. They don’t tell you the whole of it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Padraig1972]

Actually, the LOTH is the extension of the mass. This has been the tradition of the East and West from the time of the Apostles. They are inseparable. That’s why the Divine Office is liturgy as much as the mass is liturgy.

I understand the practicality of it. What I was pointing out was that in many places, both Latin and Eastern parishes, there has been an effort to introduce the Divine Office, at least Lauds and Vespers, and people object because it’s during the time that they gather to pray the rosary. They don’t get the primacy of the Divine Office over the rosary.

The Church tells us (clergy and religious) to engage the laity in the Divine Office. But many people are not interested in either: rosary of LOTH. Other people can fathom putting off the rosary to a later time so they can pray the Divine Office with the community.

I know a Franciscan parish where some parishioners walked over this. The brother superior ordered the pastor to put in Lauds before morning mass. He did. The brothers would all pour into the chapel for Lauds. There were books for the laity to follow along. There were even instructions for about three weeks before and one or two test runs.

The brothers had just taken over the parish. The bishop had explained to the parishioners that he had made a contract with the Major Superior that the parishioners would accept and cooperate with Franciscan spirituality and tradition. They didn’t have to become Franciscans; but they had to accept the introduction of some Franciscan practices into the parish and the elimination of other things that Franciscans don’t do.

Everyone thought is was all settled. Within a month, there were letters of complaint being sent to the bishop and to the major superior. They tried to open the chapel earlier so that they could pray the rosary earlier and then the LOTH. They didn’t want that either. It had to be at 7:00 or some such time. They argued why couldn’t the friars pray the LOTH earlier.

The superior of the house explained that the house followed a horarium that keeps pace with the region. All of the houses in the region are praying the same hour at the same time, by order of the regional superior and this was not up for discussion. Christ had spoken. Once Christ speaks through the superior, there is not turning back, unless it’s higher superior.

Anyway, the point it that it go emotional beyond the point of reason. No one was saying, “Don’t pray the rosary.” What was being said was, “If you’re in the chapel at this time, you can join the religious in the Divine Office or pray your rosary quietly. If you want to pray it as a group, you can come earlier and we’ll be happy to open the chapel 20 minutes earlier. But the horarium of the religious community is set in stone until it’s changed from above and the common recitation of the rosary is not on the horarium for that time.”

Then there was the issue during the Month of the Rosary when the friars prayed the Crown every evening with the laity. Some people would not come, because it was not the real rosary. It was explained weeks in advance. Little blurbs explaining it’s history were published.

I can see how the Luminous Mysteries can cause some people to get high blood pressure. They don’t understand that it’s custom that has evolved and will continue to evolve. We just won’t be around to see the next stage.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

This is on the side of the subject…but i do want to learn praying the LOTH, yet i do not understand this form of praying. But please have in mind, i converted on 10-24-2010 and still got a life to learn (at least).

The spirit is strong, but the flesh so weak…

 

[Hesychios]

This is on the side of the subject…but i do want to learn praying the LOTH, yet i do not understand this form of praying. But please have in mind, i converted on 10-24-2010 and still got a life to learn (at least).

The spirit is strong, but the flesh so weak…

It is basically just a traditional way of praying the psalms, and has very ancient roots. It is much easier to learn with a companion who already knows the ropes. I think it is best done in company, as a communal effort, but all to often people (for one reason or another) pray alone.

I first learned from an old priest friend, and he made a gift to me of a volume of Shorter Christian Prayer he owned but had no need for. (Later, I bought the bigger more complex books, but looking back on it now I have to wonder why I felt that was so necessary.)

I would start with that, you might find a good copy in a used bookstore. Don’t worry if it looks all beat up.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SDW2F750L.SL500_AA300.jpg

There is also the the possibility of joining an Oblate program at a nearby Benedictine monastery (should there be one in your city). It would offer you the opportunity to get involved and do some good, come for prayer times with the community as you are able plus get good spiritual direction and also fellowship with the other oblates and the brothers.

The house would have it’s own form of the LOTH, and from my experience they are probably going to be very happy to have you and pray with you.