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SusanneT
Guest
I agree it has been a tradition for millennia and whilst I think it should be a matter of choice I would urge all Catholic women to try it.
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Irishmom2
Guest
So what are you saying about women that don’t wear any head covering when you make a statement like that?
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Vico
Guest
No, I am giving the source of the practice in ancient times.
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Amator_Dei
Guest
Oh please let us not go down this road. We all have our religious practices. We all do things for some pious reason. We should smile at each other and appreciate what each other does for the Lord (even little things we may think silly)
If uncovered Jill genuflects while covered Lucy reverently bows, which of them is showing more respect? Iyiyiy. Jill and Lucy should say “oh how good my sister is to be in church and loving Jesus in the Eucharist” and each should be free to say “I cover to show respect” or “I genuflect to show respect”. And if their sister Rose neither genuflects nor bows nor covers, it should signal her to think about how she shows respect.
I have many many times hid my religious practices because someone takes offense personally. For example, I keep the sabbath day fairly strictly - I do not eat out or spend money or have secular entertainments (although I have been watching Victoria on PBS…
.). If I say to someone I don’t eat out they get all offended! Most people - including most priests and bishops - eat out on Sundays. I get it. I don’t. That’s how I keep the sabbath. If I tell a priest I won’t go out to brunch with him on Sunday or to the parochial school fundraiser at a restaurant after mass I am not smacking him down. I am saying “this is my spiritual life and this is how I am living it” .
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Irishmom2
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Excuse me, I am not the one claiming that covering their head **shows respect **for the Eucharist. I am not the one going down any road as you said.
I agree with you. People can show respect by covering their head **or not. **
I agree with you. People can show respect by covering their head **or not. **
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Lea101
Guest
Is there an interpretation (catholic) for this? I vaguely remember the other verses about how man is the glory of god, woman is the glory of man etc. Such a confusing passage.
I don’t think respecting the Eucharist is the main reason why veils are a thing (because it’s exclusive to women, men are not exempt from showing respect) and the whole woman are sacred thing…I don’t think it’s found in scripture or anything.
I’m curious too.
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Lea101
Guest
mattfradd.com/what-happened-to-headcoverings-at-mass/
This is an explanation about the canon law, if anyone is interested. This is the reason why priests do not say that it is required
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Gilly_flower
Guest
Interesting to note though that wearing a veil (how I dislike the pretentious verb “veiling”) enjoyed a resurgence after Jackie Kennedy looked so very glamorous wearing one to the Vatican…
I don’t in the least mind what people stick on their heads in or out of church, although I was amused by the doiley mentioned earlier: my granny had a collection of these but much more conventionally popped them under ornaments - and fruitcakes…
I don’t in the least mind what people stick on their heads in or out of church, although I was amused by the doiley mentioned earlier: my granny had a collection of these but much more conventionally popped them under ornaments - and fruitcakes…
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Elena321
Guest
Uncovering her face?That sounds a bit Burka like.
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Elena321
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Good article find
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MissRose73
Guest
I have been wearing a head covering of some kind for many years as a devotional thing and to show respect for the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. I have a variety of coverings ranging from scarves to mantillas to small hats. At my parish that is considered a bit liberal, I wear a small hat most of the time that does not make me stand out in the crowd. When I go to TLMs, I wear my mantilla. When I go to other Catholic churches as a visitor, it depends on what I have with me either a hat, mantilla or a scarf will be worn.
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Vico
Guest
Yes, extreme in comparison to modern practice, but face-veiling was originally a Jewish practice. We read in The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus of Rome, speaking of Catechumens. (circa 180-230 A.D)
And let all the women have their heads covered with 5 an opaque cloth, not with a veil of thin linen, for this is not a true covering.
rore-sanctifica.org/bibilotheque_rore_sanctifica/12-pretendue_tradition_apostolique_d_hippolyte/1934-burton_scott_easton-tradition_apostolique_d_hippolyte/Burton_Scott_Easton_-The_Apostolic_Tradition_of_Hippolytus(1934).pdf
Also Clement of Alexandria was against men shaving, for the sake of paternal terror, for example:
About the hair, the following seems right. Let the head of men be shaven, unless it has curly hair. But let the chin have the hair. But let not twisted locks hang far down from the head, gliding into womanish ringlets. For an ample beard suffices for men. And if one, too, shave a part of his beard, it must not be made entirely bare, for this is a disgraceful sight. The shaving of the chin to the skin is reprehensible, approaching to plucking out the hair and smoothing. For instance, thus the Psalmist, delighted with the hair of the beard, says, “As the ointment that descends on the beard, the beard of Aaron.”
Having celebrated the beauty of the beard by a repetition, he made the face to shine with the ointment of the Lord.
Since cropping is to be adopted not for the sake of elegance, but on account of the necessity of the case; the hair of the head, that it may not grow so long as to come down and interfere with the eyes, and that of the moustache similarly, which is dirtied in eating, is to be cut round, not by the razor, for that were not well-bred, but by a pair of cropping scissors. But the hair on the chin is not to be disturbed, as it gives no trouble, and lends to the face dignity and paternal terror.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-instructor-book3.html
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Jerusha
Guest
A much better use for a pretty one. Like I said, I have 14 different doilies framed on my walls. That one was just more appropriate, and takes up so little room in my purse.
And if people think I am being odd, that is OK. I am unique.
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InLight247
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Magdalena59
Guest
I wear a head covering at Mass. I either wear a veil, hat or large headband.
The main reason I choose to cover my head is to show respect for God in the Eucharist. Also because of 1Corinthians 11 and because of the feminine dignity of womanhood. I feel that is what God has called me to do and I try to do my best to do what he asks, not always successful but I try with the help of His Grace.
Now If anyone knew me here they would know I do not do it to stand out or to be “virtue signaling”. Something I horribly dislike is standing out in a crowd. I cringe a lot at being the center of attention. Other women I have spoken with who choose to cover have said the same thing, that it was very difficult at first due to fear of standing out in the crowd. So when you see a woman with a veil, rest assured she is not doing it to look holier than thou but she could possibly be praying inside that people will not think that because it is the last thing she wants. She just wants to veil for her Lord.
Recently I was questioned due to making the sign of cross in public before eating, and also was teased for eating a tuna fish sandwich on a Friday during Lent. It seems there could be lots of times when we practice our faith or show devotion to Jesus that someone is going to think we are trying to act holier than others but most always that is not the case.
Here are some more great links regarding veils.
The one by Johnette Benkovich at Women of Grace is very good as she describes how the tabernacle is our Holy of Holies and the importance of the Presence of the Eucharist. She also explains veiling because of the dignity of womanhood.
jenniferfulwiler.com/2013/02/notes-from-beneath-the-veil/
womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=50566
God bless and hope this helps.
The main reason I choose to cover my head is to show respect for God in the Eucharist. Also because of 1Corinthians 11 and because of the feminine dignity of womanhood. I feel that is what God has called me to do and I try to do my best to do what he asks, not always successful but I try with the help of His Grace.
Now If anyone knew me here they would know I do not do it to stand out or to be “virtue signaling”. Something I horribly dislike is standing out in a crowd. I cringe a lot at being the center of attention. Other women I have spoken with who choose to cover have said the same thing, that it was very difficult at first due to fear of standing out in the crowd. So when you see a woman with a veil, rest assured she is not doing it to look holier than thou but she could possibly be praying inside that people will not think that because it is the last thing she wants. She just wants to veil for her Lord.
Recently I was questioned due to making the sign of cross in public before eating, and also was teased for eating a tuna fish sandwich on a Friday during Lent. It seems there could be lots of times when we practice our faith or show devotion to Jesus that someone is going to think we are trying to act holier than others but most always that is not the case.
Men show respect for the Eucharist by not wearing a hat. It is a sign of pride for men to wear a hat at Mass, though it seems to have gone by the wayside it also used to be a sign of pride for a man to keep his hat on at meals. Today you see that all the time.
Here are some more great links regarding veils.
The one by Johnette Benkovich at Women of Grace is very good as she describes how the tabernacle is our Holy of Holies and the importance of the Presence of the Eucharist. She also explains veiling because of the dignity of womanhood.
jenniferfulwiler.com/2013/02/notes-from-beneath-the-veil/
womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=50566
God bless and hope this helps.
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Lea101
Guest
Correct me if I’m wrong (with actual sources from the Church so i can learn because I only recently gotten into this topic)
Yes, it’s correct that men were told to not cover their heads to show respect and women were told to do the opposite. My point was that the act of covering the head is not an inherent sign of respect, it’s a sign of respect due to its cultural significance. If it was an inherent sign, men would do the same thing. It was influenced by gender roles, as scripture kind of implies (something about a woman covering her head to show she is in submission or something that is similar).
The “women are scared” reasoning is not the main reason why veils existed. It is a pretty reason that was came up with later on and women started to veil for that reason (and that is fine) but I don’t think that was the explanation used in the beginning. IOW I don’t think that reason is ‘infallible’, more like a different perspective/opinion. Hope I don’t sound condescending. It isn’t my intention.
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Magdalena59
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No problem. I think what you are saying is men not covering and women covering was more of a cultural thing than Catholic or biblical. My thought (IMHO) on that is prior to about the last 50 - 60 years the etiquette found in culture was influenced on biblical principles.
Women used to cover also out of modesty and fidelity to their husband. I am indicating that women would cover modestly as not to influence men who were not their husbands and in essence saving their beauty for their husband alone.
And then In 1 Corinthians 11 it does instruct men not to pray with their head covered along with instructing women to cover:
- v. 4-7 Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraceth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head…
For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head. The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man.
Again, IMHO, yes there is an indication there regarding submission to her husband but also an indication that she is covering to show humility and submission to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament indicated by “the angels” who are present at the Mass.
Then according to the 1917 Code of Canon Law: “women, however, should be with head covered and modestly dressed”.
The Code of Canon Law of 1983 does not mention the requirement of women to cover in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. However, the absence of this reference to women covering does not automatically imply a change of teaching. Stated in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, Can. 21: “In doubt, the revocation of a previous law is not presumed; rather, later laws are to be related to earlier ones, as far as possible, harmonized with them.”
Lastly throughout OT and NT times things that are sacred are covered or veiled. In the OT tabernacle there was a veil before the Holy of Holies and in the Catholic church, inside and sometimes on the outside, of the tabernacle there is a veil because of the sacredness of the Blessed Sacrament inside.
A woman carries inside herself a mysterious sacred ability, that of where human life finds its beginning.
I’m not sure if I am answering your question but I hope it helps.
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Vico
Guest
There is*** no doubt*** that it was abrogated.
CIC (Latin Canon Law) of 1983
Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:
1/ the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;
2/ other universal or particular laws contrary to the prescripts of this Code unless other provision is expressly made for particular laws;
3/ any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See unless they are contained in this Code;
4/ other universal disciplinary laws regarding matter which this Code completely reorders.
§2. Insofar as they repeat former law, the canons of this Code must be assessed also in accord with canonical tradition.
2/ other universal or particular laws contrary to the prescripts of this Code unless other provision is expressly made for particular laws;
3/ any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See unless they are contained in this Code;
4/ other universal disciplinary laws regarding matter which this Code completely reorders.
§2. Insofar as they repeat former law, the canons of this Code must be assessed also in accord with canonical tradition.
Notice also that from Doctrine of the Faith and approved by H.H. Pope Paul VI, on 15 October 1976 Inter Insigniores states that chapel veils are not a matter of faith and no longer have a normative value.
Another objection is based upon the transitory character that one claims to see today in some of the prescriptions of Saint Paul concerning women, and upon the difficulties that some aspects of his teaching raise in this regard. But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19761015_inter-insigniores_en.html
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creole54
Guest
I like it when some of the women are wearing mantillas or caps. It reminds me of my childhood. I’d love to wear one, but I’m afraid people will think I’m ‘showing off’ or draw attention to myself, so I don’t wear one. I have my mother’s black lace chapel cap. I’d love to wear it.
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Lea101
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I’m trying to say that a woman veiling because she can carry life is not the reason why veiling became a practice. It’s a similarity people have realised and hence repeated.
To play the devil’s advocate because i am that annoying, I would ask then…what about infertile women? Women with a hysterectomy, women who had their utertus removed, women who are born with defective/no reproductive organs? To say that veiling is because of that reason is kind of weird because not every woman has that ability. And before anyone mentions spiritual motherhood as a backup reason, noo
Veiling because you think you’re sacred is fine, but it’s just not THE reason why such practice exist in general. It’s something biblical that the church followed and then realized it’s not an infallible teaching but was dependent on the culture and hence why women have the luxury of choosing to wear a veil or not
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