Why Do The Mormons Do It Better?

[valient_Lucy]

nytimes.com/2011/03/22/us/22pastor.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all

This is an article about how Evangelical churches are very reluctant to hire single men to be pastors, some even specifically exclude single men from ministry.

*“Some evangelical churches, in particular, openly exclude single candidates; a recent posting for a pastor by a church on Long Island said it was seeking “a family man whose family will be involved in the ministry life of the church.” Other churches convey the message through code words, like “seeking a Biblical man” (translation: a husband and a provider).” *

Obviously, this would never happen in a Catholic or Orthodox church. Protestants, like Mormons, have a poor concept of the Church, so they substitute it with the family. For them, the role of pastors and others in the church is manmade, while the family was ordained by God.

In Catholicism, and probably Orthodoxy, the family is a far less important structure, **which in many ways is a good thing. **

That is something I was thinking about last night. It’s impossible for Catholics to value the family as highly as Mormons or as Protestants,** just as Mormons and Protestants will never value communion as highly as Catholics. ** With that in mind, is it really a good idea to compete with them for better family values? I think there’s this sense that, if Catholics don’t value families, then people will leave the Church. But I don’t think that’s the case. The Early Church said things that strikes us as downright anti-family, and people still flocked to the Church, **probably because their own families were screwed up, just as ours are. **

One thing that is striking to me when I read the Gospels is how Jesus promises to destroy the biological family in order to establish the Church in its place. This is Good News, and for many young people in the world today, whose families are even worse than my own, its news they long to hear. I’m sure it was the same thing during the Roman Empire, when girls were left to die on the side of the road and the ones who survived were married at 12 to men they didn’t love.

Many young people are coming from families that are very damaged and disfunctional, and they don’t need, or want, to hear about how families are wonderful. Protestants and Mormons aren’t in a position to respond to them, because they value families too highly. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, can meet them halfway.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I do, in a sense, disagree with the author’s decision to lump Protestantism in with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. The Protestant view of marriage and family is somewhat in between that of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s closer to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, but much more family centered than Catholcism and Eastern Orthodoxy. But still nowhere close to the Mormon view of the family.

No, I strongly disagree. I live in a Protestant home and have Catholic friends, and the Catholics are more family centered (not saying Protestants aren’t, but they aren’t nearly AS family centered).

 

[valient_Lucy]

Is it true that Pope Joan had a baby? Where did I get this from? From here; Catholic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia! I know how to get information from the KJV and the other 20 plus versions. However all I can find for the Catholic Bible are sites that want to get paid for information.

Pope Joan was a legend from the Middle Ages. There was no historical evidence that she ever existed. But that’s another forum. Why don’t you start one on Apologetics?

 

[valient_Lucy]

No, I strongly disagree. I live in a Protestant home and have Catholic friends, and the Catholics are more family centered (not saying Protestants aren’t, but they aren’t nearly AS family centered).

You’re entitled to your opinion, but based on the theology of both churches, I believe that Protestants are more family centered. But I actually think that it’s a bad thing for a church to be family centered.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Where can I get the quotes from Catholic scripture that supports what you are telling me.

Is it true that Pope Joan had a baby? Where did I get this from? From here; Catholic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia!.

"pope’ Joan wasn’t a pope, just an FYI. And catholic.com is generally better at answering questions about other religions than CAF members.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

You’re entitled to your opinion, but based on the theology of both churches, I believe that Protestants are more family centered. But I actually think that it’s a bad thing for a church to be family centered.

If you’re looking at theology to see if a church is more family centered, then I have no idea which is more family centered. I’m just making general observations from Catholics and Protestants.

 

[catholic-rcia]

LDS are taught to be nice when they are around potential converts. Not something that a Catholic should think about, rather, it should come naturally from Christ in us.

The fact is sometimes we are not in a good mood; sometimes we are not always as nice as we should be, and this is reality. I was working in a LDS home a few years back. The mother was in another room speaking to her daughter. Her daughter was having a couple over for dinner that they had just met. They were not LDS. I could not help but hear the conversation as I was close by. She told her daughter to make sure the home is clean before they came over and to just be as nice as possible. Why would a mother have the need to tell this to her daughter? I did not find it odd at all because I already knew these things.

This is how they do it, appear to be happier than the rest of us. The reality is they are just like us, with all the troubles of this world. They to are not always nice and super friendly. I know this because I have to drive on the same roads they do. Interact with them daily. My wife works with many of them as well, they are not always nice…very competetive…;lots of gossiping and back stabbing. Don’t get me wrong as I myself have to take those things to confession.

There is not nicer breed of people. That would be a stereotype. Those that our closer to Christ become nicer because of Christ. This should come naturally from us all who surrender our lives over to Him. When we fail we go to Confession. This always helps.

If you want to find the nicest people on this earth go to an MLM meeting. Maybe an Amway meeting. The questions should be “why are they really so nice to me?”

 

[valient_Lucy]

This is the best explanation as to why, I have read so for. You must believe in a pre-existence and a hereafter, otherwise why have children anyway?

There is no pre-existence. Catholics believe that God creates a human soul at the moment of the child’s conception. It didn’t exist before.

I haven’t heard of another “Plan of Salvation,” expressed on CAF. Do we have bodies of flesh and bone in the pre-existence and if we are saved by grace alone why do we have to come to earth anyway?

There is no pre-existence, so we don’t exist before our conception, either in spiritual or bodily form.
We our saved by grace alone, but there’s no pre-existence. We can’t be saved before we are conceived, because we don’t exist before then.

If God our Father has a body of flesh and bone, doesn’t that make him human? If we don’t have a Mother in Heaven and belong to a family, then is the female of the species only here for our earthly enjoyment? Children being the side effect of that enjoyment only?

God the Father does NOT have a human body. He is not a human being.

 

[valient_Lucy]

If you’re looking at theology to see if a church is more family centered, then I have no idea which is more family centered. I’m just making general observations from Catholics and Protestants.

The Protestant church’s theology is more family centered. Don’t forget, it’s hard to form judgements from a small sample. Also, the US is a Protestant country, so many Catholics have Protestant family values.

 

[zaffiroborant]

nytimes.com/2011/03/22/us/22pastor.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all

This is an article about how Evangelical churches are very reluctant to hire single men to be pastors, some even specifically exclude single men from ministry.

*“Some evangelical churches, in particular, openly exclude single candidates; a recent posting for a pastor by a church on Long Island said it was seeking “a family man whose family will be involved in the ministry life of the church.” Other churches convey the message through code words, like “seeking a Biblical man” (translation: a husband and a provider).” *

Obviously, this would never happen in a Catholic or Orthodox church. Protestants, like Mormons, have a poor concept of the Church, so they substitute it with the family. For them, the role of pastors and others in the church is manmade, while the family was ordained by God.

In Catholicism, and probably Orthodoxy, the family is a far less important structure, **which in many ways is a good thing. **

None of this shows Protestants to be more family centered than Catholics or Orthodox .

Mr. Almlie, 37, has been shocked, he says, at what he calls unfair discrimination, based mainly on irrational fears: that a single pastor cannot counsel a mostly married flock, that he might sow turmoil by flirting with a church member, or that he might be gay.

The whole article supports the “fear” position rather than an elevated view of family.

 

[valient_Lucy]

None of this shows Protestants to be more family centered than Catholics or Orthodox .

The whole article supports the “fear” position rather than an elevated view of family.

How about this? It also shows that consecrated celibacy and virginity have no value in Protestant churches. They don’t admire people who have decided to take vows of celibacy or chastity. The family is the main element in Protestantism, and it is seen as ordained by God, in a way that no other structure (including the Church) is. For Protestants, every other structure, including the church, is manmade, so it can be changed, altered, even abolished if we choose. But the family was created by God, and it is the only organization that they believe God created. So they elevate the family in place of the church.

For Protestants, the family is much more sacred than the church, so the destruction of the family is much wosre than the destruction of the church. That’s why Protestants are fighting tooth and nail to keep gay marriage from being legalized.

Still, you’re entitled to your opinion. And, as I already stated, I think it’s a good thing that the Catholic Church doesn’t emphasize the family, or place the family at the center of our faith. It’s a minor element, albiet an important minor element, in the faith.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

How about this? It also shows that consecrated celibacy and virginity have no value in Protestant churches. They don’t admire people who have decided to take vows of celibacy or chastity. The family is the main element in Protestantism, and it is seen as ordained by God, in a way that no other structure (including the Church) is. For Protestants, the family is much more sacred than the church, so the destruction of the family is much wosre than the destruction of the church. That’s why Protestants are fighting tooth and nail to keep gay marriage from being legalized.

Still, you’re entitled to your opinion.

Are you Protestant? Because the church is more important than the family (although Protestants view the church differently). Just because celibacy matters in the Catholic Church doesn’t mean they aren’t more family centered. Protestantism is individually centered. If it was family centered, there wouldn’t be more Protestant divorces than Catholic ones.

God bless.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Are you Protestant? Because the church is more important than the family (although Protestants view the church differently). Just because celibacy matters in the Catholic Church doesn’t mean they aren’t more family centered. Protestantism is individually centered. If it was family centered, there wouldn’t be more Protestant divorces than Catholic ones.

God bless.

I was raised Protestant, and converted to the Catholic Church at the end of my senior year.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Are you Protestant? Because the church is more important than the family (although Protestants view the church differently). Just because celibacy matters in the Catholic Church doesn’t mean they aren’t more family centered. Protestantism is individually centered. If it was family centered, there wouldn’t be more Protestant divorces than Catholic ones.

God bless.

I was raised Protestant, and I converted to the Catholic Church my senior year of college, five years ago. So I’ve had a foot in both camps.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I was raised Protestant, and I converted to the Catholic Church my senior year of college, five years ago. So I’ve had a foot in both camps.

I see. Congrats on becoming CAtholic .

 

[valient_Lucy]

Are you Protestant? Because the church is more important than the family (although Protestants view the church differently). Just because celibacy matters in the Catholic Church doesn’t mean they aren’t more family centered. Protestantism is individually centered. If it was family centered, there wouldn’t be more Protestant divorces than Catholic ones.

God bless.

The problem with Protestants saying that the Church is more important than the family is the fact that ultimately, for them the church is a somewhat nebulous concept, since they believe that the church is invisible. The individual churches that they form are manmade, and they acknowledge that, so they feel that the structure of the church is ultimately up to them. Plus, since salvation doesn’t depend on them being members of the church, the church is more of a social unit, than a means of salvation.

But as I said, you’re entitled to your opinion.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

The problem with Protestants saying that the Church is more important than the family is the fact that ultimately, for them the church is a somewhat nebulous concept, since they believe that the church is invisible. The individual churches that they form are manmade, and they acknowledge that, so they feel that the structure of the church is ultimately up to them. Plus, since salvation doesn’t depend on them being members of the church, the church is more of a social unit, than a means of salvation.

But as I said, you’re entitled to your opinion.

In the end, does it really matter

 

[valient_Lucy]

In the end, does it really matter

Not really.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Not really.

Exactly.

 

[valient_Lucy]

LDS are taught to be nice when they are around potential converts. Not something that a Catholic should think about, rather, it should come naturally from Christ in us.

The fact is sometimes we are not in a good mood; sometimes we are not always as nice as we should be, and this is reality. I was working in a LDS home a few years back. The mother was in another room speaking to her daughter. Her daughter was having a couple over for dinner that they had just met. They were not LDS. I could not help but hear the conversation as I was close by. She told her daughter to make sure the home is clean before they came over and to just be as nice as possible. Why would a mother have the need to tell this to her daughter? I did not find it odd at all because I already knew these things.

This is how they do it, appear to be happier than the rest of us. The reality is they are just like us, with all the troubles of this world. They to are not always nice and super friendly. I know this because I have to drive on the same roads they do. Interact with them daily. My wife works with many of them as well, they are not always nice…very competetive…;lots of gossiping and back stabbing. Don’t get me wrong as I myself have to take those things to confession.

There is not nicer breed of people. That would be a stereotype. Those that our closer to Christ become nicer because of Christ. This should come naturally from us all who surrender our lives over to Him. When we fail we go to Confession. This always helps.

If you want to find the nicest people on this earth go to an MLM meeting. Maybe an Amway meeting. The questions should be “why are they really so nice to me?”

Very good point.