Why Do The Mormons Do It Better?

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Swiss_Guy said:
Exactly.
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🙂

I think it mainly comes down to personal preference. I really like the fact that in the Catholic Church, the focus is on the Church, and not the family, especially this past weekend. I had to see my dad for his birthday last Saturday, and as I hugged him, I thought to myself, “You’re not my father. My parish priest is my father. You just donated sperm. Big whoop.”
 
valient_Lucy said:
🙂

I think it mainly comes down to personal preference. I really like the fact that in the Catholic Church, the focus is on the Church, and not the family, especially this past weekend. I had to see my dad for his birthday last Saturday, and as I hugged him, I thought to myself, "You’re not my father. My parish priest is my father. You just donated sperm. Big whoop."
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😛

In the ELCA, its all about YOU (which I do not like at all). It’s what do you find to be right, and even if you disagree, we can still be part of the same church (ELCA). So frustrating. I can’t wait to become CAtholic someday.
 
Pacos_Pete said:
So what I am reading is; since we in the pre-existence chose to follow Christ’s plan and come to earth, we can do as we please an still be welcomed back into God’s presents. Since we chose Christ’s plan in the PE and are saved, we can rob, murder, lie, cheat, steal and that is okay? What are Prophets and scriptures for, if not to remind us of our Father in Heaven and what is required to return to him.

Thank you for your prayers since I am already saved because of my choice in the PE, I wonder what I am doing here?
What difference does it make whom we choose to believe?
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Since you insist that your questions were not answered, either in my previous posts or by anyone else that has already responded to you, I will take these three (that I assume you are referring to) and respond to each one, more directly, so there will be no confusion.

1) Since we chose Christ’s plan in the PE and are saved, we can rob, murder, lie, cheat, steal and that is okay? What are Prophets and scriptures for, if not to remind us of our Father in Heaven and what is required to return to him.

This question is cloaked in the presumption that the “pe” was, in fact, Christ’s plan, and that we all chose it or we wouldn’t be here. Since the “pe” is a construct of LDS doctrine, Catholics do not accept that premise as true. Since you are here and asking for the Catholic view, I would think the answer to that would be obvious, but apparently it isn’t to you.

Since there is no pre-existence, we were born to live our earthly lives in such a way that we, as individuals, can be welcomed back into the favor of God that was lost to us by Adam & Eve’s Original Sin of disobedience, by obeying God’s Word and following the instructions that were explicitly given to us by the Word of God, Jesus Christ, throughout the Gospels and New Testament.

We are required to follow the Word in order to receive salvation, and to achieve our full potential in sanctity. Since LDS firmly believe in the “pe”, that question is much better to be asked of you than any Catholic. It seems to indicate that LDS cannot lose their salvation, much like Protestants that believe “once saved, always saved”. The problem with that thinking is that it can be twisted into meaning that LDS, and those that believe in “os/as”, can commit any sin without fear of God’s wrath or damnation, once they accept that doctrine. It’s a means of justifying man’s natural inclination towards sin as acceptable for someone that claims to already be saved.

Catholics have no such presumptions anywhere in their doctrine. We must remain in the good graces of God, received in Baptism, by avoiding all sin until the end of this life, or we can lose our souls. But, the doctrine of the Church that was given by Jesus, also provides a means for all to return to a state of grace through the sacrament of Reconciliation (confession/penance), at any time, providing we are truly repentant (sorry) for our sins (because they offend God) and make a true effort to avoid them in the future. This is how Catholics progress in sanctity. God’s healing Grace makes us more perfect as we participate in the Sacraments of the Church over our lifetime, most especially in the Eucharist (our Manna from Heaven), which is the true Food for our souls.

2) Thank you for your prayers since I am already saved because of my choice in the PE, I wonder what I am doing here?
That’s a question only you can answer, because it’s not logical from a Catholic point of view. Without the pre-existence that LDS insist upon as being true, there is no way for a Catholic to answer it. IMHO, if LDS are saved in the “pe”, then their coming to earth serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, according to the teachings of Jesus. That was my point in the analogy of a student taking a “final” exam, twice. The only purpose it serves to LDS is if they believe in the entire “plan of salvation” proposed by Joseph Smith, whereby you are only here to “progress” toward becoming a god at some point in the future.

3) What difference does it make whom we choose to believe?
I think the answer to this one is also quite obvious. Your choice is whether to believe Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God, or the words of Joseph Smith and his band of brothers, a group of mortal men that started a new religion almost 2000 years after the Word of God walked the earth. If you choose to believe them and they are proven to be wrong in the end, then there is a real possibility that you could be in mortal danger of losing your soul, forever. It’s your choice, because you were given free will by God, and He will not force you to love Him and follow His Only Son.
 
I think the biggest confusion over the question of the importance of family in all religious observance, is that our views are influenced by our earthly attachments to our own families. The greatest lesson that Jesus gave us about family is found in the Gospels.

“Matthew 12:” said:
[46]
As he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him. [47] And one said unto him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee. [48] But he answering him that told him, said: Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? [49] And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.
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“Mark 3:” said:
[31]
And his mother and his brethren came; and standing without, sent unto him, calling him. [32] And the multitude sat about him; and they say to him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. [33] And answering them, he said: Who is my mother and my brethren? [34] And looking round about on them who sat about him, he saith: Behold my mother and my brethren. [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, he is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
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Both of these passages are among the most misunderstood in all of the Gospels. Protestants and many others tend to use it to argue that Jesus placed little or no importance on His relationship to His Holy Mother, which is completely untrue when we consider that she was the first to follow Him, and to declare that He was, in fact, her Savior. It’s also untrue in light of the fact that we are commanded to honor our fathers and our mothers. Because of that, Jesus is never to be outdone in honoring His Own Mother. That’s why she has always held a pivotal role in the Catholic Church. He wouldn’t have it any other way. IMHO, anyone that would dare to diminish or dishonor His Mother in any way, would certainly be subject to His wrath.

In that sense, it would seem that this statement was a contradiction, coming from Jesus. But, in fact, it’s meant to show us that our attachments to our earthly families are of less importance than our attachment to God and His Word. While we must honor and obey our parents, we must honor and obey God, first, especially if obeying our parents would hinder our relationship with Him in any way. Our first priority is to God, alone. By obeying God, first, all of our obligations to our families, and to our fellow man, would automatically be met by following all of His instructions.

The biggest hindrance to our understanding of God’s Word is our tendency to focus on Scripture as if it only related to this earthly existence, the physical world. We have to learn to focus more on our spiritual existence (our own souls and Heaven) if we are to fully understand Scripture, and what it truly means for us to follow Jesus. These passages tell us that by our being Baptized into the family of Jesus Christ, we all become the adopted sons and daughters of God, as if we were all actual brothers and sisters, even though we are not so by birth. Our focus should be to follow Jesus, along with all of our “brethren”, toward Heaven, by faithfully following His explicit instructions that lead us to perfection in Him. That’s our only true and final goal.
 
RebeccaJ said:
This is taught in the LDS Institute of Religion still, in the section where they cover the New Testament


(Institute of Religion manual, New Testament, pg 327,Published by
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day SaintsSalt Lake City, Utah
© 1978, 1979 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.)

PDF version here.
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Rebecca,
If I’m reading you correctly, you can find it discussed in some old lesson manuals but you can’t find it in any of the official doctrine (the Quad) or official proclamations.

I won’t/can’t disupute that some lesson manuals did not teach official doctrine.
 
Tony888 said:
Rebecca,
If I’m reading you correctly, you can find it discussed in some old lesson manuals but you can’t find it in any of the official doctrine (the Quad) or official proclamations.

I won’t/can’t disupute that some lesson manuals did not teach official doctrine.
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I find it sad/ironic/amusing that official LDS lesson manuals teach false doctrine.
 
This thread is starting to wander a little bit. Perhaps we should start a seperate thread to deal with the issues of pre-existence itself, not as it relates to Mormon families.

At the same time, though, this issue of pre-existence is essential to the central question of the thread: why do the Mormons do a better job than Catholics of promoting family values? As I’ve stated previously, it’s in large part due to their theology. It’s a bit like asking “Why do evangelicals celebrate communion once a month and Catholics have communion every day?” Look to their theology.

The problem is that some Catholics take it as an insult when they hear that the family has a higher value in Mormonism than in Catholicism, when it’s not an insult; it’s just a fact. đŸ€· Just like human sacrifice has a higher value in Aztec religion than in Catholicism.
 
valient_Lucy said:
🙂

I think it mainly comes down to personal preference. I really like the fact that in the Catholic Church, the focus is on the Church, and not the family, especially this past weekend. I had to see my dad for his birthday last Saturday, and as I hugged him, I thought to myself, “You’re not my father. My parish priest is my father. You just donated sperm. Big whoop.”
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Wow seems harsh on your father.
 
I don’t think it’s necessarily that they do it “better,” more that the emphasis is different. I think it may also be cultural as well.
I am the 4th child of 8, so my parents seem to have gotten the procreation down. 👍 although, I would have been the limit on the child tax credit.
 
This is a quote from Sarah Barringer Gordon, a scholar of 19th century Mormonism. (She is not Mormon herself.)

Once polygamy no longer became possible, the big question was, “Is the nuclear family, that old unit, still celestial in the ways that polygamist families had been?” The answer very quickly had [become] yes, and the nuclear family inherited both that superheated quality and that supportive quality that had gone into that investment in polygamy. It’s through and in, by and with the family that Mormons are saved, and it’s how they think primarily of their relationship, both to the afterlife and to the church as a whole. 

 
I wonder if part of it may be that a devout Mormon is more likely to marry than a devout Catholic.
 
valient_Lucy said:
The problem is that some Catholics take it as an insult when they hear that the family has a higher value in Mormonism than in Catholicism, when it’s not an insult; it’s just a fact. đŸ€· .
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I think the biggest difference is *why *it’s valued, for the LDS it is a requirement to be fulfilled in order to gain the highest level of heaven, like a token acquired along the game in order to win.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I think the biggest difference is *why *it’s valued, for the LDS it is a requirement to be fulfilled in order to gain the highest level of heaven, like a token acquired along the game in order to win.
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It’s definitely viewed, as you said, as a token to enter the highest level of heaven, or the most important thing in the “to-do” list to check off in order to enter heaven. There really isn’t anything in to compare it to in Catholicism. That’s why Mormons place a much higher value on marriage and families than Catholics. You’re right about that.

A former President of the Mormon church (revered by Mormons as a Prophet) said that a an unmarried man, would be judged by God because he failed to marry and have children. :eek:

They also view marriage and family as eternal reality, not merely an earthly reality. They believe that they marry for all of eternity, that family bonds will survive in eternity, and that the afterlife will consist of them living as families (presumably as gods, procreating spirit children, just as they believe God the Father did.) This makes marriage and family a holy enterprise, in a way that it is not for Catholics.
 
valient_Lucy said:
It’s definitely viewed, as you said, as a token to enter the highest level of heaven, or the most important thing in the “to-do” list to check off in order to enter heaven. There really isn’t anything in to compare it to in Catholicism. That’s why Mormons place a much higher value on marriage and families than Catholics. You’re right about that.
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Ah semantics semantics:) “higher value” “higher value”

Jim values Mr. Attorney because he needs him to stay out of jail.
Bob values Mr. Attorney because he’s a fellow human being.
Which places a higher value on Mr. Attorney?

IMO marriage as a thing everyone must check off their “to-do list” devalues marriage.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Ah semantics semantics:) “higher value” “higher value”

Jim values Mr. Attorney because he needs him to stay out of jail.
Bob values Mr. Attorney because he’s a fellow human being.
Which places a higher value on Mr. Attorney?

IMO marriage as a thing everyone must check off their “to-do list” devalues marriage.
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You’re entitled to your opinion. However, since marriage and family are at the center of Mormonism, it’s pretty clear that marriage and family are far more important to Mormons than it is to Catholics, imo. Marriage and family are more of a peripheral issue in Catholicism.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I find it sad/ironic/amusing that official LDS lesson manuals teach false doctrine.
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I’m not suprised lesson manuals have had doctrinal errors. What’s important is that they are corrected.

Do you honsetly believe there are/were no Catholic publications that taught incorrect doctrine?
 
Tony888 said:
I’m not suprised lesson manuals have had doctrinal errors. What’s important is that they are corrected.

Do you honsetly believe there are/were no Catholic publications that taught incorrect doctrine?
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what? These are manuals that teach the LDS faith, they are the closest thing the LDS church has to a catechism. To think something just, ooops, accidentally showed up in a LDS lesson manual is either extremely naive, or deceptive. Please discover the LDS church’s “Correlation Committee” before making such remarks.

The Catechism is where you learn of the doctrines of Catholicism. No, there is not “incorrect doctrine” in the Catechism. That would be incredibly negligent.
 
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