Why do they say this.?

[english_guy]

Hello everyone,
Can anyone please tell me why protestants of all descriptions say Catholics are going to Hell ?. I mean, why are we singled out for this destination and nobody else ?.Also why are we likened to the Whore of Babylon?. I have read articles on these subjects before but I have never received a satisfactory answer. I thank anyone in advance for any replies,
God Bless,
Mick.

 

[Jermosh]

Because those who follow Christ will be hated.

That and the Church is horrible about teaching about the Church, I have to state that I disagree with the sacrament ages and think its a cause of a lot of issues. I will abide and respect, but disagree.

 

[edjco]

Most Protestants think we are going to Hell, I think, out of sheer ignorance of the Catholic faith. Many of them don’t even think that we are Christians. The ones who are more “enlightened”, if you can call it that, feel that we aren’t going to Heaven because we, by their definition have not been “saved”.

To understand that part, you will have to do a little research on their belief in Sola Fide. You can find plenty of information on that subject in this forum. When you learn enough about it, and boil it all down, you will come to the conclusion that the Protestant notion of salvation is not supported by Scripture. You can also look at the writings of the Early Church Fathers and see that their notion is also not supported by history. The earliest Christians, (who were Catholics), did not share their view of salvation.

You will also find that the Catholic teaching on what is required to get to Heaven is much more strict than theirs, so they should be satisfied with our teaching. They just don’t take the time to understand it.

The Whore of Babylon is also another of (some) Protestants belief which relies solely on shoddy Scripture interpretation. I would suggest you visit John Martignoni’s apologetics website at www.biblechristiansociety.com Look at John’s newsletters and you will find several (as I recall) on Sola Fide, and you will also find a good one on the Whore of Babylon.

I have something on this subject that I can send you if you would like. Just PM me if you are interested.

 

[MrsHall]

As a life-long Protestant (soon to be received into the Church!) I can give you my perspective.

First, the church I grew up in was full of ex-Catholics, including my parents. They would say things like, “I never knew Jesus when I was a Catholic.” So I grew up in that atmosphere. I never hated Catholics, but I felt sorry for them. I could see how all their beautiful rituals could make them think they were religious, but if they didn’t know Jesus the rituals were empty. My Catholic relatives didn’t help matters, because all of the Protestants I knew were passionate and outspoken about their faith, and the Catholics didn’t want to talk about it… and in many cases they had major sin issues, too. It is just a matter of what you see growing up. I mean, when a Protestant relative is telling you that God delivered him from alcoholism (and there’s proof!) and your Catholic relative is getting bailed out of jail for knocking his wife around when he was drunk, what does that tell you as a kid?

I was married with four children before I met a Catholic that lived her faith, and I live in a largely Catholic area. My great-grandmothers were Catholic women of great faith, but that was “way back then.” When I met someone my age, living the Faith NOW, it rocked my world. That was about five years ago and is what started me on the faith journey I am on now.

There are “theological” types who have all kinds of “Biblical” evidence that the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon. If you read what they’re written and don’t have a lot of experience reading the Bible, it is easy to get sucked into what they say. It is sad. However, the book of Revelation (the Apocalypse) tells us which “great city” is the whore and it is the city where Our Lord was crucified (Jerusalem).

There is also the matter of being saved by “faith alone.” My mother-in-law, who is a pastor’s wife, told me that a cult is any group that tells you you need anything besides faith in Jesus to be saved. If that is true, than Catholicism is the most successful cult of all time. Again, if you haven’t read the epistle of St. James lately, it is easy to get sucked into that way of thinking. However, St. James, and Jesus Himself, teach us that our faith must be accompanied by works and we are not saved by faith alone. End of story.

I could keep going but my kids want breakfast. Hope this helps.

 

[VociMike]

Hi Mick,

You have to understand that if the Catholic Church is right then Protestantism is wrong, is heresy, is in rebellion against God’s true Church. Thus it is very much in the interest of Protestantism to demonstrate that the Catholic Church is not right, and that Protestantism is not rebellious heresy. There is very much at stake for them, which compels them (in general, there are many exceptions) to expend great effort to tear down the Church.

As you are from England, you may be interested to read what John Henry Newman wrote about the situation of Catholics in England 150 years ago: newmanreader.org/works/england/index.html

I think this passage is especially telling:

If you would have some direct downright proof that Catholicism is what Protestants make it to be, something which will come up to the mark, you must lie; else you will not get beyond feeble suspicions, which may be right, but may be wrong. Hence Protestants are obliged to cut their ninth commandment out of their Decalogue. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” must go, must disappear; their position requires the sacrifice. The substance, the force, the edge of their Tradition is slander. As soon as ever they disabuse their minds of what is false, and grasp only what is true,—I do not say they at once become Catholics; I do not say they lose their dislike to our religion, or their misgivings about its working;—but I say this, either they become tolerant towards us, and cease to hate us personally,—or, at least, supposing they cannot shake off old associations, and are prejudiced and hostile as before, still they find they have not the means of communicating their own feelings to others. To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation. There are indeed able men who can make a striking case out of anything or nothing, as great painters give a meaning and a unity to the commonest bush, and pond, and paling and stile: genius can do without facts, as well as create them; but few possess the gift. Taking things as they are, and judging of them by the long run, one may securely say, that the anti-Catholic Tradition could not be kept alive, would die of exhaustion, without a continual supply of fable.

 

[po18guy]

Mick,

I tend to think that, since only one Church can be the true Church, those who have separated from her must justify that same separation. No better way to do that than to condemn the Catholic Church. I mean, if there is no fault in the Catholic Church, why aren’t they then Catholic? Ay, but if she’s rotten, then…

I also believe that they are unwittingly following the leading of a spirit which seeks, in the end, only to destroy faith by division. I can see where this very same spirit might be the one which lead Martin Luther to move from reform to schism, and which also lead corrupt Church officials of Luther’s time to harden their hearts to their obvious sins. The evil one thus used both sides against one another. This is diametrically and diabolically opposed to Christ’s prayer that we remain one, as He and the Father are one. Look at how much time is now spent on arguing, rather than spreading the Gospel.

The reformer’s rejection of Church authority, in my mind a reflection of the evil one’s rejection of God’s authority, as others have mentioned, lead to faulty private interpretation and twisting of scripture.

The Holy Spirit unites. The demon divides.

Cheers.

 

[JonNC]

Hello everyone,
Can anyone please tell me why protestants of all descriptions say Catholics are going to Hell ?. I mean, why are we singled out for this destination and nobody else ?.Also why are we likened to the Whore of Babylon?. I have read articles on these subjects before but I have never received a satisfactory answer. I thank anyone in advance for any replies,
God Bless,
Mick.

Mick,
While I think the state, “protestants of all descriptions say Catholics are going to Hell” is vastly overstated, I can only tell you what Lutherans are supposed to believe. We believe that while we have disagreements with the papacy, those disagreements have nothing to do with individual Catholics. Catholics are saved by Grace alone through faith in Christ Jesus just like any other Christian. You are Baptised in the trinitarian form, you believe, and therefore salvation is available to you, and not because a Lutheran says so, but because Christ promised it. And afterall, who is saved and who is condemned is God’s decision, not ours.
So, you will not find a statement like “There is no salvation outside the Lutheran Church” in the Lutheran Confessions. And if you ever run into a Lutheran who claims Catholics are going to hell, tell him to prove it by the Lutheran Confessions.

Jon

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I blame the minsters. If they taught properly there would be none of this … BUT if they taught properly they would be priests

 

[po18guy]

So, you will not find a statement like “There is no salvation outside the Lutheran Church” in the Lutheran Confessions.

Might I kindly point out that you are indeed in communion with the Catholic Church - just not a full communion. All Lutherans as well as Trinitarian-baptized Christians are in the Body of Christ, and we live and work for the day in which we might be “one, as You and I are one”. It is only outside of this communion of believers that there is no salvation (with allowances for God’s unknown graces).

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[rwoehmke]

Not all non-Catholics including protestants believe this. Catholics are not the only ones who will go to hell according to those that believe this. I have heard it said that only eleven Jews since the beginning of the world ever got into heaven; the eleven apostles. Moses, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob all went to hell because they did not know Jesus. Same for Muslims, Hindus, etc. Not all who say Catholics, Jews, and Muslims will go to hell hold this quite that strongly, but some are really extreme. When it was pointed out if one reads the O.T. that God seemed to love many Old Testament people and counted them as righteous, it was stated,“Oh, we don’t hold much with the Old Testament anymore.”

 

[Soutane]

It boils down to this-"If the Catholics are right-that means we’re(gulp)wrong"That is an EXTREMELY threatening thought.I liken that attitude to whistling past the graveyard.It is the fundamentalist fringes of Christianity that espouse this.Pray for them.

 

[cpayne]

It boils down to this-"If the Catholics are right-that means we’re(gulp)wrong"That is an EXTREMELY threatening thought.I liken that attitude to whistling past the graveyard.It is the fundamentalist fringes of Christianity that espouse this.Pray for them.

You know, I ran right smack into this in my own life. I loved reading Catholic authors like Chesterton and Newman, and later on, Kreeft and Pieper and Aquinas and Augustine. So I had really favorable views of Catholics.

But after a while it hit me: I should NOT have favorable views of them. They were either blinded servants of a huge, man-made cult that was steering people the wrong way—or else they were right.

I eventually figured out: They were right. (After all, why was it that every other Protestant writer except C.S. Lewis was so boring and non-helpful, compared to the Catholics?) But I understand why some Protestants are so highly critical. I think it was Chesterton who said, “The Catholic Church is either what she says she is, or she is demonic.” I think the implication is that there is really not much middle ground there.

 

[JonNC]

Might I kindly point out that you are indeed in communion with the Catholic Church - just not a full communion. All Lutherans as well as Trinitarian-baptized Christians are in the Body of Christ, and we live and work for the day in which we might be “one, as You and I are one”. It is only outside of this communion of believers that there is no salvation (with allowances for God’s unknown graces).

Christ’s peace be with you.

And also with you.

You are correct, we are in communion with each other, albeit imperfect. I join you in prayer and effort that we may one day be in full communion.

Jon

 

[Soutane]

You know, I ran right smack into this in my own life. I loved reading Catholic authors like Chesterton and Newman, and later on, Kreeft and Pieper and Aquinas and Augustine. So I had really favorable views of Catholics.

But after a while it hit me: I should NOT have favorable views of them. They were either blinded servants of a huge, man-made cult that was steering people the wrong way—or else they were right.

I eventually figured out: They were right. (After all, why was it that every other Protestant writer except C.S. Lewis was so boring and non-helpful, compared to the Catholics?) But I understand why some Protestants are so highly critical. I think it was Chesterton who said, “The Catholic Church is either what she says she is, or she is demonic.” I think the implication is that there is really not much middle ground there.

I agree with you entirely-there is absolutely no middle ground.The Catholic Church is who she says she is,the Eucharist is what Christ said it is or it is all a demonic lie.There are NO degrees of truth in this matter.It is ALL Truth or ALL Deception.

In the Grace of Faith I submit to the Truth of the Holy Catholic Church’s absolutely OUTRAGEOUS claims.I Thank God that I’m Catholic and pray for the conversion of every soul on this planet.

 

[Contarini]

Hello everyone,
Can anyone please tell me why protestants of all descriptions say Catholics are going to Hell ?

Your premise is false. Very few Protestants believe this today. I’d think that in England the number would be even fewer. But unfortunately, the voices of extremists are always heard most loudly, and that may be even more the case in Britain where the number of believers of all sorts is smaller. (I will admit that the northernmost church in Britain, a Methodist church on Unst in Shetland, has on display some atrocious anti-Catholic pamphlets produced by Ulster Protestants.)

What has given you this impression? None of the large Protestant denominations in Britain teach this, and even in the U.S. most do not.

I mean, why are we singled out for this destination and nobody else ?

I assure you that no one believes that only Catholics will be in hell.

Also why are we likened to the Whore of Babylon?

It goes back to medieval apocalypticism. Dante likens the Papacy (of his day, which was in “captivity” to the French monarchy) to the Whore of Babylon. A medieval proverb teaches that “the worst kind of corruption is the corruption of the best”; or in Shakespeare’s words, “Liles that fester smell far worse than weeds.” (Or as C. S. Lewis put it: “It’s not from bad mice or bad fleas that you get devils, but from bad archangels.”) In Protestant polemic, the perceived “gaudiness,” cruelty, and decadence of Catholicism (particularly of Rome itself) fed this stereotype. (See Dave Hunt’s contemporary iteration of this in his book A Woman Rides the Beast–or rather don’t and say you did)

Protestants and Catholics have believed and said lots of nasty things about each other (and have done lots of nasty things to each other). Unfortunately, some conservative Protestants see the need to continue this. But only a very few would go so far as to say that all Catholics are going to hell.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I think the implication is that there is really not much middle ground there.

That’s a convenient stance for folks on both sides. And I have believed it, or been inclined to believe it, for years, even as I tried to occupy the middle ground that I wasn’t sure existed. But you know what? There are lots of people on that middle ground that you deny. And reality may be against you and Chesterton here. You may have a nice theory explaining why Catholicism must be what it claims or be totally evil. But the reality is that it clearly isn’t either totally good or totally evil, and the arguments made by Catholic apologists to explain how Catholicism can be perfect in the ways they claim while also having much corruption within it just aren’t terribly convincing.

Edwin

 

[Soutane]

That’s a convenient stance for folks on both sides. And I have believed it, or been inclined to believe it, for years, even as I tried to occupy the middle ground that I wasn’t sure existed. But you know what? There are lots of people on that middle ground that you deny. And reality may be against you and Chesterton here. You may have a nice theory explaining why Catholicism must be what it claims or be totally evil. But the reality is that it clearly isn’t either totally good or totally evil, and the arguments made by Catholic apologists to explain how Catholicism can be perfect in the ways they claim while also having much corruption within it just aren’t terribly convincing.

Edwin

The apostles also had corruption within them yet Christ CHOSE them,despite personal sin,thick headedness,repeated denial; and in the case of one,final treachery.The Catholic Church,founded by Christ is perfect.
It’s practioners certainly are not and are sinners in need of their Saviour.Pope John Paul the Great went to confession thrice weekly in recognition of this fact.

 

[alexnden]

I wonder what Jesus would say about all this anti-protestant and anti-catholic rhetoric which is flying around the forum?

I am Protestant, my wife is Catholic. We follow separate paths, but I believe if we both live our lives the way He wants us to, we will be meet in heaven.