Why do we "care" that Mary was always a virgin?

[LemonAndLime]

I hear it a lot “Ever Virgin” - why did Mary never have children after Jesus? Why wouldn’t she?

If she didn’t and never had intercourse with Joseph after Jesus’ birth, why is it important that she was always a virgin? Is virginity that special, that its better to be a virgin?

I ask this because a friend asked me “Why do Christians go on about Mary being a virgin so much? Doesn’t imply that women having sex is bad, and virginity is better?”

 

[ChadS]

I hear it a lot “Ever Virgin” - why did Mary never have children after Jesus? Why wouldn’t she?

If she didn’t and never had intercourse with Joseph after Jesus’ birth, why is it important that she was always a virgin? Is virginity that special, that its better to be a virgin?

I ask this because a friend asked me “Why do Christians go on about Mary being a virgin so much? Doesn’t imply that women having sex is bad, and virginity is better?”

I don’t think Mary remaining a virgin is meant to denigrate the marital act or imply that it’s a preferred state over marriage, although throughout history some have taken that position.

I think her perpetual virginity is meant to reinforce in our minds the uniqueness of her son Jesus and for one remove doubt from detractors that would conclude that it was possible Jesus’ birth was natural if she had other children.

Also, much like our sacred vessels at Mass today where the paten and chalice can’t be used for ordinary purposes would it have been right for her womb to used for an “ordinary” purpose once it had contained the Son of God?

ChadS

 

[FightingFat]

I think her perpetual virginity is meant to reinforce in our minds the uniqueness of her son Jesus and for one remove doubt from detractors that would conclude that it was possible Jesus’ birth was natural if she had other children.

This is exactly right. The early Fathers stressed her virginity because it proved Christ’s divine origin.

 

[Sum_Fidelis]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers. Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus. You will find more in The Bible. God bless.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers. Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus. You will find more in The Bible. God bless.

Sum Fidelis, actually, the Bible, properly interpreted, doesn’t say that.

See the article here: catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp

With regard to reading the Bible, you should read it as a Catholic, not a Protestant. We have a specific methodology that we should use in order not to stray from the truth.

The Word of God is not a book. It is a Person, Jesus Christ. The Word was transmitted to man in two modes: Orally (first and foremost), and written (a subset of the oral teaching).

Jesus came to earth and wrote no books. He taught orally. He taught the Apostles for three years. SOME of what He taught them was written down. We call that the New Testament. Not all He taught was written, though. (See John 21:25) Yet, He commanded the Apostles (and, by extension, their successors, the bishops) to teach ALL that He had taught them. (See Matt. 28:20).

When we read Scripture, we are to use the following three principles:

1. Always read Scripture in light of Sacred Tradition, the Oral teachings of Christ passed on to the Apostles and their successors, the bishops.
2. Always read Scripture as a totality, not in snippets. ALL Scripture is Divinely inspired and contains the whole truth of Christ.
3. Always read Scripture through the analogy of the faith as explained to us by the Magisterium of the Church.

For a much better explanation of this, listen to Fr. John Corapi’s audio series, which can be obtained by downloading the following audio files (MP3’s):

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%201%20Divine%20Revelation%20Itself.mp3

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%202%20Transmission%20of%20Divine%20Revelation.mp3

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%203%20Scripture%20Inspiration%20&%20Interpretation.mp3

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%204%20The%20Old%20Testament.mp3

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%205%20The%20New%20Testament.mp3

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Fr.%20Corapi—Word%20of%20God—Pt.%206%20The%20Life%20of%20the%20Church.mp3

God bless!

 

[kildare]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers. Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus. You will find more in The Bible. God bless.

I think though that the translation of the Greek word for “brothers” is the confusing point, for it can mean “brother” or “cousin”. They could also have been step-brothers from Josephs previous marriage.

According to the proto-evangelium of James: Joseph, an old widower from the tribe of David/Judah married Mary, who was a temple virgin, being from the tribe of Levi (the priestly tribe). That sort of ties in the priestly and kingly lines required for the Messiah.
And there is more here
catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp

 

[FCEGM]

Briefly, God is free to do anything in whatever manner He chooses, but the way He does things is always perfect and most fitting for what is to be accomplished. Thus, e.g., with the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary it was most fitting that His Son be conceived and born to a woman preserved from Original Sin. And thus it was fitting that the Mother of God be a virgin inviolate throughout her life. This fittingness was recognized quickly by the Fathers who so readily see her as the New Eve and the Ark of the New Covenant. For a fuller presentation on this which will help you see the depth of theology regarding the Blessed Virgin and her prerogatives, I highly recommend Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange’s The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life, TAN Books.

Further, one cannot isolate the Incarnation of Christ from other factors (i.e., His being born a Jew; His being born of a particular woman; that particular woman being a virgin before His birth and remaining a virgin after; that particular woman remaining virginal in the midst of a marriage). Marital intimacy is a beautiful affirmation of the covenant of marriage, but it would be a desecration to impregnate in the ordinary way for ordinary purposes a womb consecrated to God. Especially in Mary’s case God Himself consecrates her womb (as opposed to a human man consecrating a virgin to God). So the desecration violating what is holy would be unjust to God’s honor, to say the least. Contemplating the mystery of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary reveals not so much her prerogatives and her glorious role in Salvation History, but more reveals Who it is Who was born to such a mother.

“Mary Most Holy is thus the “ever virgin.” Her prerogative is the consequence of her divine motherhood which totally consecrated her to Christ’s mission of redemption.” (From a catechesis of Pope John Paul II on the Blessed Virgin Mary given August 28, 1996.)

An article of interest:

cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm

 

[Cat_Herder]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers.

That’s incorrect. The word “brother” in Hebrew and Aramaic usage does not necessarily mean blood brother. For example, Genesis 14:14 calls Lot the “brother” of Abraham when Lot is actually Abraham’s nephew. Elsewhere in the NT, fellow Christians are called brothers (Acts 21:7) and so are Jewish leaders (Acts 22:1).

Here are some links that explain this further.

Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus.

Then Jesus is not the Messiah for failure to fulfill the prophets.

[BIBLEDRB]Ezekiel 44:2[/BIBLEDRB]

There is no magic gate in Jerusalem that only Jesus passed through. Hence the “gate” can refer only to Mary’s womb.

The word “until” does not imply a later change in state.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 15:25[/BIBLEDRB]

Jesus will not cease to be Lord once His enemies are vanquished. Nor will Mary cease to be a virgin.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers. Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus. You will find more in The Bible. God bless.

This is incorrect. As the others have noted, the Greek word “brothers” was frequently used to refer to relations other than biological brothers by Jewish speakers. The reason is that the terms in Hebrew and Aramaic were very broad - Abraham and Lot are called “brothers” in Genesis, even though they’re uncle/nephew. Two of the men described as Jesus’ “brothers” (James and Joses) are later described as the sons of Mary, the “sister” of the Virgin Mary, and the wife of Clopas. Obviously, the two Marys weren’t literally sisters, but were probably sisters-in-law. If this is right, than James and Joses, the “brothers” of the Lord, are His cousins.

As for the OP’s point, the reason that it matters that Mary is Ever-Virgin is because:

1. 
   *] She’s the New Ark of the Covenant, to be holy and pure (see Revelation 11:19-12:2).
   *]She’s the New Temple Gate (Ezekiel 44:1-4 prophesies that the Gate through which the Lord Himself passes will be closed forever - this doesn’t refer to the actual Temple, but was viewed as a metaphoric reference to Mary, that Her Body had become a Temple of the Lord in a unique way).
   *]She’s the New Eve. Jesus calls Her Woman (John 2:4; John 19:26) which was Eve’s name while she was a sinless virgin in the Garden of Eden (see Genesis 2:23). It’s immediately after the Fall (the very next verse, in fact), that Eve goes from being “Woman” to “Eve” (Genesis 3:20), and the name is tied to her loss of virginity and her new motherhood. So Eve’s virginity was seen as an external symbol of her internal purity and sinlessness. Mary never goes from being “Woman” to anything else. As John 19:26-27 shows, She becomes John’s Mother spiritually, not physically, and as Revelation 12:17 shows, She becomes the Mother of all Christians spiritually. In this way, She’s the perfect Eve, without loss of Her Virginity (Eve’s name means “Mother of the Living,” meaning the physically living; Mary’s the Mother of those living in Christ).
   *]All of this is part of the broader design: in Genesis, the virgin Woman is taken from the flesh of Adam; she brings the fruit of the tree to him and brings death into the world. In the New Testament, Jesus (who Paul calls “the last Adam” in 1 Cor. 15:45) is taken from the flesh of Mary, a.k.a “Woman”; He’s called the “fruit of Her womb” (see Luke 1:42), and this “Fruit” becomes sin and is put upon the Tree (1 Peter 2:24). In other words, the story of Redemption is the story of the Fall in reverse, which is why it matters that Mary is the new sinless Virgin. If you’re curious, St. Irenaeus, in Book III of Against Heresies outlines all of this as early as 180 A.D.

 

[Rascalking]

I’ve wondered this too! Who cares ?! Will it really effect someones faith? Why do Catholics seem obsessed with it? I believe (as a matter of faith) that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Christ. After that, who cares?

 

[LemonAndLime]

I have read everyone’s post, but I still find that the last point is true - suggesting that Mary was sinless because she remained a virgin suggested that not being a virgin is sinfull - but she was married

This is something which the Church teaches that I can reconcile with, but I’m finding it difficult. Yes I can understand the Bible quotes which justify it, but forgetting the prophetic parts of the Bible - why would Mary choose to stay a virgin? I guess I’m just struggling to understand why its necessary.

I want to add here that I by no means want to question the Church’s authority on the matter, and I have great respect for Our Lady. I do not want to offend.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

I ask this because a friend asked me “Why do Christians go on about Mary being a virgin so much? Doesn’t imply that women having sex is bad, and virginity is better?”

I forgot to answer this part. Sex is good, but virginity is better. Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:12, and Paul’s instructions to the married (1 Corinthians 7:1-7) and unmarried (1 Cor 7:8-9) make it abundantly clear that while sex is good, sacrificing this good for God is even better.

That always strikes people as confusing, but think about it. Good food is a blessing from God, yet fasting is better than eating. Christ’s command in Matthew 6:16-18 only makes sense if fasting is meritorious to God. That doesn’t mean food is bad: on the contrary it means it’s good.

Abstaining from bad things isn’t any merit - it’s the bare minimum of what we’re called to. But abstaining from good things to stay hungry for the even better things Heaven offers is a merit, beyond what we’re called to do.

 

[kildare]

I must admit this whole subject is far more interesting than I had hitherto thought.
Just now, thanks to the posts I’ve learned a great deal about our blessed Mother - and about the nature of the Bible and how Jesus and his birth are always prefigured in the old testament. It makes perfect and logical sense why she would be perpetually virginal. Imagine through her, God’s intense Love for mankind is made flesh - in that instant! Incredible, or rather something quite wonderful!

Unfortunately ordinary Catholics almost never know WHY they believe something and normally thats just fine. Mary Ever Virgin? If I buy into the rest (that there is a God, Jesus and the Trinity), well then I may as well believe that too. eh?
But NO. Its not like that! Everything is logically thought out and prepared.
Every minor detail in the OT has a huge consequence in the NT.
There is a symmetrical beauty, a logical harmony that even a mathematician might admire.

And I feel that i am completely out of my depth here!

 

[FCEGM]

I have read everyone’s post, but I still find that the last point is true - suggesting that Mary was sinless because she remained a virgin suggested that not being a virgin is sinfull - but she was married

This is something which the Church teaches that I can reconcile with, but I’m finding it difficult. Yes I can understand the Bible quotes which justify it, but forgetting the prophetic parts of the Bible - why would Mary choose to stay a virgin? I guess I’m just struggling to understand why its necessary.

I want to add here that I by no means want to question the Church’s authority on the matter, and I have great respect for Our Lady. I do not want to offend.

This article might be helpful to you:

philvaz.com/apologetics/a82.htm

 

[kildare]

why would Mary choose to stay a virgin? I guess I’m just struggling to understand why its necessary.

I think the point is that Joseph, a devout Jew would definitely refrain from relations with Mary, especially after the Angel announced it to him. Mary’s womb was for God and no other man - like as if she were really married to someone else. And Mary, of course would refrain too!

 

[LemonAndLime]

Thank you for that link, the article definitely helped explain it a lot.

 

[FightingFat]

I think the point is that Joseph, a devout Jew would definitely refrain from relations with Mary, especially after the Angel announced it to him. Mary’s womb was for God and no other man - like as if she were really married to someone else. And Mary, of course would refrain too!

Yes, it seems from Sacred Scripture that Mary committed herself to virginity from the time of the Incarnation, so as to devote herself totally to this child which was coming to her from God. Her dedication to virginity went along with the consent that she gave to the Incarnation.

By taking Mary into his home Joseph, too, joined in this plan of virginity which in fact, in the Church, only makes sense in terms of the Incarnation. Among Christians, dedication to virginity is testimony given to the Incarnation of the Son of God, certainly incarnate in the flesh, but without being born of the will of the flesh. It is also a total consecration to Christ and His redemptive mission.

 

[TimothyH]

Dear friend,according to The Bible Jesus had at least brothers. Our Blessed Virgin was a virgin only before giving birth to Jesus. You will find more in The Bible. God bless.

Negative. You have read the Bible incorrectly.

*There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him. Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. (Matthew 27:55-56)*Mary, mother of James and Joseph, was “looking on from a distance” but the Mother of Jesus - the Blessed Virgin Mary - was right at the foot of the cross with Jesus. The Gospels are talking about two different women named Mary.

James and Joseph were brothers of Jesus only insfar as they were “brethren” or possibly cousins, for which there was no Aramaic word.

All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said, "My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus. (Acts 1:14-16) Acts speaks about there being 120 “Brothers”. Some translations use the word “Brethren” becuase they know that there were two different Mary’s and that the those present were not really sons of the same mother. Mary would have had to have been in perpetual labor instead of a perpetual virgin for Jesus to have that many brothers.

We care because it is the part of the truth. Mary is the perfect vessel, the Ark of the New Covenant, the perfect queen in Heaven through which all graces come. She has perfect recourse to her son Jesus and is therefor the perfect midiatrix for us sinners. She is co-redemptrix, along with her son, of all mankind. She is the perfect example of the “Yes of our hearts” which we should give to God.

We care because virginity for the kingdom is better than marriage. When we get to Heaven we will all see and army of women who kept their virginity for Jesus. They will look suspiciously like Catholic Nuns and Mary will be marching at the front. Mary is our greates weapon exactly because of what she did, including keeping herself a virgin and that’s why we care.

-Tim-

 

[LemonAndLime]

I can understand all of that, but surely that devalues those who choose to marry and have children? Why is virginity considered more holy than having children? It does seem that the old joke that Christians see sex as something dirty comes from this. I read the article above which explained it a bit, but it does seem to be anti-intercourse.

Yes I suppose refraining from sex, just like we refrain from food sometimes to fast, can be seen as a deliberate suffering to bring you closer to God to stop you desiring earthly things. But why is that valued more than having children and being married?

 

[tomarin]

I can understand all of that, but surely that devalues those who choose to marry and have children? Why is virginity considered more holy than having children?

Premodern Christians valued chastity much more than we moderns appear to. It is a virtue by Christian thinking. I think if you addressed your question to a priest he would tell you that obviously different people are called to different vocations, so it’s not true that in the Catholic mindset everyone should take a vow of chastity and not have a family. That would rapidly lead to a world without Catholics.

Your question put me in mind of a pair of married saints from the Middle Ages who were married to each other but took a communal vow of chastity (I forget their names). I still find that a bit perverse and perhaps unnecessary, but it shows you the value placed on chastity by the medievals.

G.K. Chesterton wrote in defense of chastity that “white is not a mere absence of color; it is a shining and affirmative thing, as fierce as red, as definite as black. God paints in many colors, but he never paints so gorgeously, I had almost said so gaudily, as when he paints in white.”

Mary’s case is special, of course, since she is the theotokos. She can be thought of as a vessel whose purity must be absolute since she carried God in her womb. This is why Catholics believe that she was born without a sinful nature.