Why Do We Need to Celebrate the Mass in Latin?

[Theophilus777]

I was born in 1960 and attended a Catholic elementary school. I was an altar boy for several years. I have absolutely no recollection of the Mass in latin. I have heard priests talking about the latin mass, basically stating that it was the way the Mass was meant to be celebrated. But I don’t understand this. Jesus instituted the Mass in Aramaic. If language was really anything more than cultural, then logically the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in the language in which Jesus and the apostles first celebrated it. I have attended Latin high and low masses and I don’t like them whatsoever. My entire experience of the liturgy has been in the vernacular, and if you ask me, according to my experience, the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in a language that I can understand and participate in. As it stands now, on the occasions when our parish sings the Lord’s Prayer, the Holy Holy, and other prayers in Latin, the only thing I can do is stand or kneel there and not participate because I don’t know a shred of Latin and can’t pronounce any of those words, let alone understand what they mean.
Who are these people who have suddenly emerged mandating the return of the Mass in this odd language? Frankly, I don’t know anybody younger than 50 who really wants the Latin mass to return. I am staunchly conservative, love traditional Catholicism, but unfortunately in my lifetime I have no experience of the Latin Mass and would be horrified if the Latin Mass became the norm. It would be like going to Mass on another planet for me. Doesn’t anybody understand that there are two whole generations who were born and bred on the Mass in the vernacular? I’m not talking about traditional vs. wacko theology. I am conservative and love the church as it spans back across the ages, and I’m traditional as they come. But from my position, a return to the latin mass is a radical departure from the norm and I can’t see the benefit of making the Mass unintelligible and confusing.

I would just like someone to explain to me why the Latin Mass needs to come back. Are there any books, internet articles, apologetic resources which would help me to come to terms with this? I love the Church and I want to be subordinate to the authority that God has placed within the church, but that anyone would want to return to Latin is incomprehensible to me. It is not because I am a radical leftist liberal. Far from it. I am horrified by alot of the liberality that has transpired in the church in my lifetime and am staunchly conservative. But from my perspective, a return to the Latin Mass is a radical change from the only thing I have ever known.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Latin makes everything uniform, there is no worry about different languages or translations.

Latin is and has been for almost all of the life of the Church, its native tongue. The Mass that we use now, in either form, was written in Latin first and translated to other languages. Doctrines are expressed originally in Latin. You need only play with an online translator to see how translation can change meaning. Its like playing telephone with Theological Truths

Because Latin was used for so long, there is a huge repository of chants for both music and readings.

As Latin becomes more familiar to Catholics, it becomes like our own secret code

 

[Cat]

I was born in 1960 and attended a Catholic elementary school. I was an altar boy for several years. I have absolutely no recollection of the Mass in latin. I have heard priests talking about the latin mass, basically stating that it was the way the Mass was meant to be celebrated. But I don’t understand this. Jesus instituted the Mass in Aramaic. If language was really anything more than cultural, then logically the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in the language in which Jesus and the apostles first celebrated it. I have attended Latin high and low masses and I don’t like them whatsoever. My entire experience of the liturgy has been in the vernacular, and if you ask me, according to my experience, the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in a language that I can understand and participate in. As it stands now, on the occasions when our parish sings the Lord’s Prayer, the Holy Holy, and other prayers in Latin, the only thing I can do is stand or kneel there and not participate because I don’t know a shred of Latin and can’t pronounce any of those words, let alone understand what they mean.
Who are these people who have suddenly emerged mandating the return of the Mass in this odd language? Frankly, I don’t know anybody younger than 50 who really wants the Latin mass to return. I am staunchly conservative, love traditional Catholicism, but unfortunately in my lifetime I have no experience of the Latin Mass and would be horrified if the Latin Mass became the norm. It would be like going to Mass on another planet for me. Doesn’t anybody understand that there are two whole generations who were born and bred on the Mass in the vernacular? I’m not talking about traditional vs. wacko theology. I am conservative and love the church as it spans back across the ages, and I’m traditional as they come. But from my position, a return to the latin mass is a radical departure from the norm and I can’t see the benefit of making the Mass unintelligible and confusing.

I would just like someone to explain to me why the Latin Mass needs to come back. Are there any books, internet articles, apologetic resources which would help me to come to terms with this? I love the Church and I want to be subordinate to the authority that God has placed within the church, but that anyone would want to return to Latin is incomprehensible to me. It is not because I am a radical leftist liberal. Far from it. I am horrified by alot of the liberality that has transpired in the church in my lifetime and am staunchly conservative. But from my perspective, a return to the Latin Mass is a radical change from the only thing I have ever known.

I’m with you.

My perspective is that of a convert to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism.

I don’t think that a return to Latin Mass will happen. I think that the Latin Mass will be offered at more parishes in the U.S., and a small group of Catholics will keep it going. A lot of Catholics will jump on the bandwagon and give it a try, thinking that it is The Answer to increased spiritual growth in their lives. Some of them will be greatly blessed and stick with it, but others will learn that it isn’t the answer and they will stop attending TLM and go back to Mass in the vernacular.

 

[Catholic90]

Latin makes everything uniform, there is no worry about different languages or translations.

There is no worry about anybody understanding it either - as in, very few can understand it! (and much of what IS done is some parishes is not always grammatically correct, according to my son who has taken 5 years of Latin so far - he can understand it, but he is busy correcting the grammar ! )

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Latin was the “vernacular language” of the first century Church of Rome. There’s nothing particularly holier about Latin, but Latin does seem to be a very stable language (not constantly evolving as other languages are), and as such lends itself toward more clearly expressing the ancient formulas of the faith. From that perspective, it appears to be a language particularly suited to theology, much as koine Greek is a particularly stable language sutied toward theological expression.

Also, according to Vatican II:

“the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.” (Apostolic Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, 4 December 1963, no. 36)

“steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.” (ibid., no. 54)

“In accordance with the centuries-old tradition of the Latin rite, the Latin language is to be retained by clerics in the divine office.” (ibid., no 101)

“The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.” (ibid., no. 116).

The Latin Rite risks losing its heritage, its ancient identity as its expertise in Latin diminishes.

 

[Lancer]

Originally Posted by Theophilus777

[1]Who are these people who have suddenly emerged mandating the return of the Mass in this**[2]** odd language? Frankly, I don’t know [3] anybody younger than 50 who really wants the Latin mass to return. I am staunchly conservative, love traditional Catholicism, but unfortunately in my lifetime I have no experience of the Latin Mass and would be [4] horrified if the Latin Mass became the norm. It would be [5] like going to Mass on another planet for me. Doesn’t anybody understand that there are [6] two whole generations who were born and bred on the Mass in the vernacular? I’m not talking about traditional vs. wacko theology. I am conservative and love the church as it spans back across the ages, and I’m traditional as they come.** [7] But from my position, a return to the latin mass is a radical departure from the norm and I can’t see the benefit of making the Mass unintelligible and confusing. **

1. The same people who have been standing next to you for all your years at Mass.
2. You mean the “odd language”… that thousands of saints used to celebrated the Mass …both as celebrants and laity.
3. Well to find them you have to hang out with them…try the Catholic Student Union on major university campuses and the orthodox Catholic Universities…and many of the recently ordained priests and current seminarians.
4. The Tridentine Mass will never become the “Ordinary” form of the Mass (that’s the Novus Ordo Mass of Pope Paul VI…vernacular)…Pope Benedict XVI has designated the Tridentine (Latin) Mass the “Extraordinary” form…which is truly…since it goes back hundreds of years and is truly an exceptionally beautiful Mass.
5. You are on another planet at each and every Mass no matter what form…you ar at/in the one heavenly banquet…at the Holy of Holies altar…so fasten your seat belt and hold on to your prayer book next time you go to Mass!
6. So its okay for you to have things the way you want…but not okay for your fellow Catholic in the pew to have it the way they want…remember they have been having it your way for 45yrs…why not let them have a Tridnetine Mass without disparaging them or a valid and holy Mass…just like your Novus Ordo Mass is valid and holy.
7. Don’t argue with your “wacko” Tridentine Mass proponent…take it up with a guy named Peter…currently called Benedict XVI…if you really love the Chruch.

Lastly…for your information…you officially belong not** to** the Roman Catholic Chruch…but** the Latin Catholic Church**…and the vernacular Mass which I also love…will not be taken away (like the Latin Tridentine Mass was for 45 years)…but our vernacular Mass will still abound…so try to be charitable with the your fellow Latin Catholic Church members!

Pax Christi

 

[itsjustdave1988]

As far as I can tell I have not been directed to celebrate the Mass in Latin, so I don’t understand the OP’s expression “need to celebrate.” However, the Mass is offered in Latin to those who wish to celebrate in Latin, which is as it should be.

I recommend reading The Spirit of the Liturgy by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) for a better theological understanding of the importance of our ancient liturgical roots.

Personally, I believe a return to Latin might reduce the many forms of “liturgical abuse” that the faithful are subjected to in modern times. This is what Pope Benedict has called the preservation of the “dignity of the sacred.”

Here are some quotes from Pope Benedict regarding the use of Latin in the Liturgy:
“While there are many motives that might have led a great number of people to seek a refuge in the traditional liturgy, the chief one is that they find the dignity of the sacred preserved there. After the Council there were many priests who deliberately raised ‘desacralization’ to the level of a program, on the plea that the New Testament abolished the cult of the Temple: the veil of the Temple which was torn from top to bottom at the moment of Christ’s death on the cross is, according to certain people, the sign of the end of the sacred. The death of Jesus, outside the City walls, that is to say, in the public world, is now the true religion. Religion, if it has any being at all, must have it in the non-sacredness of daily life, in love that is lived. Inspired by such reasoning, they put aside the sacred vestments; they have despoiled the churches as much as they could of that splendor which brings to mind the sacred; and they have reduced the liturgy to the language and the gestures of ordinary life, by means of greetings, common signs of friendship, and such things . . . That which previously was considered most holy — the form in which the liturgy was handed down — suddenly appears as the most forbidden of all things, the one thing that can safely be prohibited. It is intolerable to criticize decisions which have been taken since the Council; on the other hand, if men make question of ancient rules, or even of the great truths of the Faith — for instance, the corporal virginity of Mary, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, the immortality of the soul, etc. — nobody complains or only does so with the greatest moderation.” (Address to Bishops of Chile, 1988)

“I am of the opinion, to be sure, that the old rite should be granted much more generously to all those who desire it. It’s impossible to see what could be dangerous or unacceptable about that. A community is calling its very being into question when it suddenly declares that what until now was its holiest and highest possession is strictly forbidden and when it makes the longing for it seem downright indecent.” (Salt of the Earth)

“For fostering a true consciousness in liturgical matters, it is also important that the proscription against the form of liturgy in valid use up to 1970 should be lifted. Anyone who nowadays advocates the continuing existence of this liturgy or takes part in it is treated like a leper; all tolerance ends here. There has never been anything like this in history; in doing this we are despising and proscribing the Church’s whole past. How can one trust her at present if things are that way?” (The Spirit of the Liturgy)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Also from Cardinal Ratzinger:
"Ten years after the publication of the Motu proprio “Ecclesia Dei”, what sort of balance-sheet can one draw-up? I think this is above all an occasion to show our gratitude and to give thanks. The divers communities that were born thanks to this pontifical text have given the Church a great number of priestly and religious vocations who, zealously, joyfully and deeply united with the Pope, have given their service to the Gospel in our present era of history. Through them, many of the faithful have been confirmed in the joy of being able to live the liturgy, and confirmed in their love for the Church, or perhaps they have rediscovered both. In many dioceses - and their number is not so small! - they serve the Church in collaboration with the Bishops and in fraternal union with those faithful who do feel at home with the renewed form of the new liturgy. All this cannot but move us to gratitude today!

“… what is the deeper reason for this distrust or even for this rejection of a continuation of the ancient liturgical forms?”

"…The two reasons which are most often heard, are: lack of obedience to the Council which wanted the liturgical books reformed, and the break in unity which must necessarily follow if different liturgical forms are left in use. It is relatively simple to refute these two arguments on the theoretical level. The Council did not itself reform the liturgical books, but it ordered their revision, and to this end, it established certain fundamental rules. Before anything else, the Council gave a definition of what liturgy is, and this definition gives a valuable yardstick for every liturgical celebration. … It is in the light of these criteria that liturgical celebrations must be evaluated, whether they be according to the old books or the new. It is good to recall here what Cardinal Newman observed, that the Church, throughout her history, has never abolished nor forbidden orthodox liturgical forms, which would be quite alien to the Spirit of the Church. … The orthodox forms of a rite are living realities, born out of the dialogue of love between the Church and her Lord. They are expressions of the life of the Church, in which are distilled the faith, the prayer and the very life of whole generations, and which make incarnate in specific forms both the action of God and the response of man. … The authority of the Church has the power to define and limit the use of such rites in different historical situations, but she never just purely and simply forbids them! Thus the Council ordered a reform of the liturgical books, but it did not prohibit the former books. …

"We must now examine the other argument, which claims that the existence of the two rites can damage unity. … it must be stated that several forms of the Latin rite have always existed… Before the Council there existed side by side with the Roman rite, the Ambrosian rite, the Mozarabic rite of Toledo, the rite of Braga, the Carthusian rite, the Carmelite rite, and best known of all, the Dominican rite, and perhaps still other rites of which I am not aware. No one was ever scandalized that the Dominicans, often present in our parishes, did not celebrate like diocesan priests but had their own rite. We did not have any doubt that their rite was as Catholic as the Roman rite, and we were proud of the richness inherent in these various traditions. Moreover, one must say this: that the freedom which the new order of Mass gives to creativity is often taken to excessive lengths. The difference between the liturgy according to the new books, how it is actually practiced and celebrated in different places, is often greater than the difference between an old Mass and a new Mass, when both these are celebrated according to the prescribed liturgical books…

"…The actual Constitution on the Liturgy does not speak at all about celebration facing the altar or facing the people. On the subject of language, it says that Latin should be retained, while giving a greater place to the vernacular…

"If the unity of faith and the oneness of the mystery appear clearly within the two forms of celebration, that can only be a reason for everybody to rejoice and to thank the good Lord. Inasmuch as we all believe, live and act with these intentions, we shall also be able to persuade the Bishops that the presence of the old liturgy does not disturb or break the unity of their diocese, but is rather a gift destined to build-up the Body of Christ, of which we are all the servants.

(Cardinal Ratzinger’s Oct. 24, 1998 address to pilgrims gathered in Rome on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the motu proprio “Ecclesia Dei.”)

 

[curlycool89]

1. The Tridentine Mass will never become the “Ordinary” form of the Mass (that’s the Novus Ordo Mass of Pope Paul VI…vernacular)…Pope Benedict XVI has designated the Tridentine (Latin) Mass the “Extraordinary” form…which is truly…since it goes back hundreds of years and is truly an exceptionally beautiful Mass.

sight The Tridentine mass is called the “Extraordinary Form”. The base use of the work extraordinary is simply “not ordinary”, which in the case of the EF is just to distinguish it from the Ordinary Form (the “new mass”). Extraordinary Form just means it’s not the Ordinary Form. Nothing more.

I really wish that the people who argue for the EF could do it without making all the OF mass-goers sound like uneducated-boring-liberal-commie-hippies.

 

[SenorSalsa]

There is no worry about anybody understanding it either - as in, very few can understand it! (and much of what IS done is some parishes is not always grammatically correct, according to my son who has taken 5 years of Latin so far - he can understand it, but he is busy correcting the grammar ! )

It took less than a year for me to go from no Latin to being able to understand and say all the main parts of the Mass in Latin: the Confiteor, the Sanctus, the Domine non sum dignus, Agnus Dei, Pater Noster and other small responses.

Before I relocated and stopped having weekly access to Latin Mass, I was also on my way to learning the Credo and Gloria.

Its not hard for people to understand. Additionally, since you can have a missal, anything you don’t understand, you can follow along with the translation.

Finally, I find it hard that there is that much bad grammar, most of the prayers have been in constant development for centuries, and the chances that nobody, especially when Latin was people’s first language, caught errors is unlikely

 

[curlycool89]

Finally, I find it hard that there is that much bad grammar, most of the prayers have been in constant development for centuries, and the chances that nobody, especially when Latin was people’s first language, caught errors is unlikely

I highly doubt that a (yearly counted) statistically significant number of people have learned Latin as their first language since the beginning of the 2nd millennia.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

…Its not hard for people to understand.

I agree. I have had zero training in Latin, and have easily picked up the hymns and responses. It is no more difficult than understanding the meaning of the ancient Greek hymn: Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison, Kyrie Eleison. Just cuz I can understand the words, however, doesn’t mean I can sing any better.

 

[ChurchTorch]

I was born in 1960 and attended a Catholic elementary school. I was an altar boy for several years. I have absolutely no recollection of the Mass in latin. **I have heard priests talking about the latin mass, basically stating that it was the way the Mass was meant to be celebrated. ** But I don’t understand this. Jesus instituted the Mass in Aramaic. If language was really anything more than cultural, then logically the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in the language in which Jesus and the apostles first celebrated it. I have attended Latin high and low masses and I don’t like them whatsoever. My entire experience of the liturgy has been in the vernacular, and if you ask me, according to my experience, the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in a language that I can understand and participate in. As it stands now, on the occasions when our parish sings the Lord’s Prayer, the Holy Holy, and other prayers in Latin, the only thing I can do is stand or kneel there and not participate because I don’t know a shred of Latin and can’t pronounce any of those words, let alone understand what they mean.
Who are these people who have suddenly emerged mandating the return of the Mass in this odd language? Frankly, I don’t know anybody younger than 50 who really wants the Latin mass to return. I am staunchly conservative, love traditional Catholicism, but unfortunately in my lifetime I have no experience of the Latin Mass and **would be horrified if the Latin Mass became the norm. ** It would be like going to Mass on another planet for me. Doesn’t anybody understand that there are two whole generations who were born and bred on the Mass in the vernacular? I’m not talking about traditional vs. wacko theology. I am conservative and love the church as it spans back across the ages, and I’m traditional as they come. But from my position, a return to the latin mass is a radical departure from the norm and I can’t see the benefit of making the Mass unintelligible and confusing.

I would just like someone to explain to me why the Latin Mass needs to come back. Are there any books, internet articles, apologetic resources which would help me to come to terms with this? I love the Church and I want to be subordinate to the authority that God has placed within the church, but that anyone would want to return to Latin is incomprehensible to me. It is not because I am a radical leftist liberal. Far from it. I am horrified by alot of the liberality that has transpired in the church in my lifetime and am staunchly conservative. But from my perspective, a return to the Latin Mass is a radical change from the only thing I have ever known.

1. The priest were wrong.
2. The Tridentine Mass never really left. It differs from the Pauline Mass in more than language.
3. The Tridentine Mass AIN’T gonna become the norm.
4. Again, it never really left. Some prefer it is all – for both valid and non-valid reasons.

 

[ChurchTorch]

Latin makes everything uniform, there is no worry about different languages or translations.

Latin is and has been for almost all of the life of the Church, its native tongue. The Mass that we use now, in either form, was written in Latin first and translated to other languages. Doctrines are expressed originally in Latin. You need only play with an online translator to see how translation can change meaning. Its like playing telephone with Theological Truths

Because Latin was used for so long, there is a huge repository of chants for both music and readings.

As Latin becomes more familiar to Catholics, it becomes like our own secret code

I don’t know about that! The Latin I hear at Papal Masses sounds A LOT different than the Latin I hear on EWTN!

 

[ChurchTorch]

Lastly…for your information…you officially belong not** to** the Roman Catholic Chruch…but** the Latin Catholic Church**…and the vernacular Mass which I also love…will not be taken away (like the Latin Tridentine Mass was for 45 years)…but our vernacular Mass will still abound…so try to be charitable with the your fellow Latin Catholic Church members!

Pax Christi

Not true. On the western side of the Catholic Church, “Roman Rite” of the Catholic Church and “Latin Rite” of the Catholic Church are one in the same.

 

[choy]

Latin makes everything uniform, there is no worry about different languages or translations.

Latin is and has been for almost all of the life of the Church, its native tongue. The Mass that we use now, in either form, was written in Latin first and translated to other languages. Doctrines are expressed originally in Latin. You need only play with an online translator to see how translation can change meaning. Its like playing telephone with Theological Truths

Because Latin was used for so long, there is a huge repository of chants for both music and readings.

As Latin becomes more familiar to Catholics, it becomes like our own secret code

just a thought, since one of the arguments people present here for TLM, why not make all masses around the world English? its relevant today, almost every country has some understanding of english or at least there are local english speakers in most countries. and like Greek was in the time of Jesus, English is the world language and the language of commerce today

 

[Theophilus777]

The Tridentine Mass will never become the “Ordinary” form of the Mass (that’s the Novus Ordo Mass of Pope Paul VI…vernacular)…Pope Benedict XVI has designated the Tridentine (Latin) Mass the “Extraordinary” form…which is truly…since it goes back hundreds of years and is truly an exceptionally beautiful Mass.

This is really the answer I was looking for. Perhaps my stance was a bit defensive because I truly love going to Mass as often as I can, sometimes every day of the week, and I honestly feared that soon the Mass would be only celebrated in Latin. I had approached my pastor about this but the only thing he told me was that I didn’t need to know Latin in order to participate in the Mass, which is probably true, but would still be a radical departure from my present experience.
I agree that certainly those persons who enjoy a Mass in Latin shouldn’t be deprived of such, and that was not what I was stating. I was more concerned with being deprived of my own ability to participate in the Mass and for that matter, my own particular and subjective nostalgia for what I have always known and experienced in the Church.
As I stated, I am a son of the church and not a “father” and so my stance is humility and obedience. However, I can’t help but prefer to receive my commands in a language that I can understand.
On another note, why not have Latin classes(preferrably free) at various churches? I would certainly not mind learning the Latin language, but there are no classes available in my parish, or any of the nearby parishes for that matter. If proponents of the Latin Mass would want other people to become more enthusiastic about it, I would presume they are proponents because they already know the Latin language, and wouldn’t charity dictate that we share the wealth given us? My only real objection is that I don’t know Latin. If I knew Latin, the Latin Mass would certainly be a much less confusing experience.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I am a young Catholic born after the Second Vatican Council. I grew up with the Mass of Paul VI and did not know the Latin Mass even existed until I discovered it in 2007.

Why do we need to celebrate the Latin Mass?

The question should be: ***Why did the Roman rite of the Church celebrate the Mass in Latin for over one thousand years, without translations into the vernacular? *** Why, all of a sudden, after a millennium of constant use was the Latin Mass abandoned? If it was good enough for our ancestors, why wasn’t it good enough for us?

The official Roman Missal is always in Latin. We need to celebrate the Mass in Latin because this is the official version of the Mass. More importantly, celebrating the Mass in Latin ensures that there are no translation errors. Let us remember that the current English translation of the OF Mass is absolutely terrible! In my opinion, the ICEL translation of the OF Mass is mundane and inaccurate. Evidently, the Church agrees with me because they are about to authorise a better translation which more accurately translates Latin into English.

The Latin Mass ensures that complete accuracy; we know that the prayers are correct and true.

The Latin Mass ensures that the whole Roman rite is the same. In the past, it was possible for all Roman Catholics to attend Mass anywhere in the world and understand the Mass perfectly. The Latin Mass united the whole world in prayer. These days, I would not be able to attend Mass in Spanish and understand it perfectly. Also, how many parishes now have to offer Masses in several different languages? I know of a local parish that has to offer Polish Mass and English Mass every Sunday. One Latin Mass would solve the problem; there would be no need for polish Mass or English Mass; the entire congregation could pray together!

The Latin Mass also connects us to our ancestors and to the saints. By praying in Latin, we are praying exactly as the saints of old prayed.

 

[Dicerning]

My entire experience of the liturgy has been in the vernacular, and if you ask me, according to my experience, the “way the Mass was meant to be celebrated” would be in a language that I can understand and participate in.

However in latin you would be able to worship in any country alongside people of foreign tongue. Celebrating in vernacular is divisive. Just ask any parish with a large hispanic population.

As it stands now, on the occasions when our parish sings the Lord’s Prayer, the Holy Holy, and other prayers in Latin, the only thing I can do is stand or kneel there and not participate because I don’t know a shred of Latin and can’t pronounce any of those words, let alone understand what they mean.

You are kidding right? you mean to tell me that you can learn a few simple words of latin. Holy Holy Holy? here is your First latin lesson, Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus.

Who are these people who have suddenly emerged mandating the return of the Mass in this odd language? Frankly, I don’t know anybody younger than 50 who really wants the Latin mass to return.

I am one of them and I am 7 years younger than you. And I know LOTS of people my age who love the Mass in EF

I am staunchly conservative, love traditional Catholicism, but unfortunately in my lifetime I have no experience of the Latin Mass and would be horrified if the Latin Mass became the norm.

I believe you need to check you definition of “traditional Catholicism”

Doesn’t anybody understand that there are two whole generations who were born and bred on the Mass in the vernacular?

Any it is no shock to realize the same two Generations are Completely out to Lunch on the Teachings of the Catholic church. And I mean the most basic teachings

But from my position, a return to the latin mass is a radical departure from the norm and I can’t see the benefit of making the Mass unintelligible and confusing.

Learning enough latin to understand the Mass in the EF takes about 3 months. I can follow along quite easily and understand almost every word. its not rocket science. Methinks you have a misconception of what the EF is.

It is not because I am a radical leftist liberal. Far from it. I am horrified by alot of the liberality that has transpired in the church in my lifetime and am staunchly conservative. But from my perspective, a return to the Latin Mass is a radical change from the only thing I have ever known.

Why do you keep validating the fact that you are Conservative? AND for the perspective of Millions the switch to the OF of the mass in the late 60’s was a radical change for somthing that had been going on for centuries. Remember Lex orandi Lex credendi.

 

[SenorSalsa]

just a thought, since one of the arguments people present here for TLM, why not make all masses around the world English? its relevant today, almost every country has some understanding of english or at least there are local english speakers in most countries. and like Greek was in the time of Jesus, English is the world language and the language of commerce today

Mostly because English is not the historical language of the Church. Most of the prayers of the Mass we can trace back at least 1000-1500 years., when they would have been written in Latin. Whereas they have been translated (somewhat badly) into English.

The other danger is that English is a live language, which means that the meanings of words change and evolve. think of how gay went from happy to homosexual, or how dog went from a canine to a slang term for friend. This can cause problems if words involved in theological truths begin to change meaning, the Truths begin to lose their original meaning, and their truth.

Lastly, compare American English to British English to Australian English and everywhere in between, and you will realize that English, though widely spoken, is not nearly as standardized as people think. This again gets back to differences in meanings and so on, where it means one thing in USA and another in Great Britain. Because of this, it has been very difficult for all the English speaking countries to come up with a uniform translation (which we still do not have)