No that isn’t going to happen. But keep in mind that one day soon (hopefully this year) the new English translation of the Latin will be made available for all parishes that speak English. So the words that you know by heart will be slightly different and more in tune with the original Latin. USCCB-Roman Missal changes. Down on the bottom right is an example of the changes and a link for more.This is really the answer I was looking for. Perhaps my stance was a bit defensive because I truly love going to Mass as often as I can, sometimes every day of the week, and I honestly feared that soon the Mass would be only celebrated in Latin.
The Latin language
I do not think that Pope Benedict XVI is asking for too much. Latin brings a greater solemnity and dignity to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I am seven years younger than you are and I have no problem praying in Latin.
- None of the above observations should cast doubt upon the importance of such large-scale liturgies. I am thinking here particularly of celebrations at international gatherings, which nowadays are held with greater frequency. The most should be made of these occasions. In order to express more clearly the unity and universality of the Church, I wish to endorse the proposal made by the Synod of Bishops, in harmony with the directives of the Second Vatican Council, (182) that, with the exception of the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful, it is fitting that such liturgies be celebrated in Latin. Similarly, the better-known prayers (183) of the Church’s tradition should be recited in Latin and, if possible, selections of Gregorian chant should be sung. Speaking more generally, I ask that future priests, from their time in the seminary, receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant; nor should we forget that the faithful can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant. (184)
But opera does not have subtitles, yet millions of people throughout the world appreciate opera when sung in in the language in which it was originally written (Italian, German, whatever). They follow the text with a libretto, at least until they are familiar enough with it that they can put the booklet aside. Opera in translation just doesn’t cut the mustard.I would probably really enjoy the Latin Mass if I understood it. It’s not only illogical but uncharitable to expect someone to enjoy something they don’t understand. Even foreign movies have subtitles.
Seems to me that’s somewhat of a red-herring. Does anyone think it would cause the usual pro vernacular-only arguments to cease?So far the best thing I see is to return to the Aramaic language of Jesus or at least Greek to make it right.
My point is that arguing over which language to use for the divine liturgy/liturgy of the eucharist needs a much better stand that what I’ve read. Though I prefer the mass in Latin, I also like it in Greek, which was before the Latin. And if we go the the Eastern rites we’d here it in Greek, the language of the New Testament. Someone had to translate it from Greek to Latin.Seems to me that’s somewhat of a red-herring. Does anyone think it would cause the usual pro vernacular-only arguments to cease?
then why not translate them better into english thats more universal?Mostly because English is not the historical language of the Church. Most of the prayers of the Mass we can trace back at least 1000-1500 years., when they would have been written in Latin. Whereas they have been translated (somewhat badly) into English.
The other danger is that English is a live language, which means that the meanings of words change and evolve. think of how gay went from happy to homosexual, or how dog went from a canine to a slang term for friend. This can cause problems if words involved in theological truths begin to change meaning, the Truths begin to lose their original meaning, and their truth.
Lastly, compare American English to British English to Australian English and everywhere in between, and you will realize that English, though widely spoken, is not nearly as standardized as people think. This again gets back to differences in meanings and so on, where it means one thing in USA and another in Great Britain. Because of this, it has been very difficult for all the English speaking countries to come up with a uniform translation (which we still do not have)
Because English is a “live” language, it simply would not work. In English, words and their meaning have changed over time. Look at what happened to the word “gay”. Over 50 years ago, it did not have the meaning that it has today.then why not translate them better into english thats more universal?
the problem with Latin is no one speaks Latin, and therefore we have to learn it. and to learn a new language, we’d still have to translate it to our own native tongue, so in the end there will still be variations in understanding a common language
i think local language is very important. the Apostles spoke in the local languages of the travelers in Jerusalem as soon as the received the Holy Spirit, which means Jesus wants people to understand His message in their own native tongue.
i do know there are subtle differences in english, but regardless english is still the most universal language today, given its advancement by mass media. even if different countries use english differently, a more formal use of english is universal that is an Australian uses Australian English in America, he’ll still be understood, and he can easily understand American English
That’s what they’re supposedly doing now for Americans.then why not translate them better into english thats more universal?
Correction. It is not only for “Americans”, but, for the all English-speaking Catholics.That’s what they’re supposedly doing now for Americans.
Interesting how Anglo-Saxon linguistics gets turned topsy-turvy. In French we call such words patois or language considered non-standard. Strange though how the jargon word “gay” get’s defined in so many ways which originally had absolutely nothing to do with the way it’s implied today. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gayBecause English is a “live” language, it simply would not work. In English, words and their meaning have changed over time. Look at what happened to the word “gay”. Over 50 years ago, it did not have the meaning that it has today.
Latin, because it is “dead” remains unchanging. The words we speak in Latin during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are virtually the same words spoken for nearly two millenia.
You do not have to learn Latin to understand the Mass. People take Missals to the Latin Mass and read the English translation alongside the Latin. When I attend the OF, almost everybody uses a Mass sheet to follow the Mass and proclaim the appropriate responses. The faithful use Missals in both Latin and vernacular Masses. I cannot understand why people complain about having to use a Missal in the Latin Mass, when they also use Missals in the vernacular Mass.Your statement is charitably written and appreciated, but as I stated in my original post, I don’t know a shred of Latin. None of my intimate Roman Catholic acquaintances know Latin either. No one in my family knows Latin, including my parents(my grandparents have passed away but they didn’t know Latin either).(I might also add that my parents did not attend Catholic school and are both alive today. My father is 72 and my mother is 69.) The majority of people attending Mass at my home parish don’t know any Latin either.
The Latin Mass unites the Church because Latin is a common language. We may speak different languages, but we can all pray together in Latin because Latin is a universal language. You say that no-one understands Latin. I disagree. While we may not be fluent in the language, it is easy to memorise and understand the basic Latin prayers. For everything else, we can use the Missal.How does celebrating the Mass in a language no one can understand unite the Church?
Have you ever heard of parishes with different ethnic groups? What about those parishes with English speakers and Spanish speakers. The priest often has to say separate Masses for each group. It is not uncommon for a priest to have to celebrate one Mass in English and one Mass in Spanish. The parish is divided because of the language barrier. It would be far better and easier if only one Mass was celebrated in Latin. The Spanish speakers could use Missals and the English speakers could use Missals. This would reduce the work of the priest and it would unite the entire parish.I have never attended Mass in a foreign country, primarily because I have never visited a foreign country. I am 50 years old. Your logic holds valid only if intercultural eucharistic celebrations are common but unfortunately they are not.
Your son probably knows Classical Latin, not Ecclesiastical/Medieval Latin, which is what the Mass would be said in. At any rate, I’m curious as to what your son has picked out, since Latin has no set word order, and thus is irrelevant to what most people mean by “grammar”(and much of what IS done is some parishes is not always grammatically correct, according to my son who has taken 5 years of Latin so far - he can understand it, but he is busy correcting the grammar ! )
Ecclesiastical Latin is different to the Classical Latin that is taught in many schools. Ecclesiastical Latin is actually a vulgar form of Classical Latin. This is because it was the Latin spoken by the common man. Classical Latin is very polished and flowery compared the Church Latin. This is why your son thinks the grammar is incorrect.Your son probably knows Classical Latin, not Ecclesiastical/Medieval Latin, which is what the Mass would be said in. At any rate, I’m curious as to what your son has picked out, since Latin has no set word order, and thus is irrelevant to what most people mean by “grammar”
Not everyone uses a Missal when at mass. I never use a Missal (not since I was 10 at least). The only thing I ever use is a hymnal (and I’ve got a good number of those committed to memory too).You do not have to learn Latin to understand the Mass. People take Missals to the Latin Mass and read the English translation alongside the Latin. When I attend the OF, almost everybody uses a Mass sheet to follow the Mass and proclaim the appropriate responses. The faithful use Missals in both Latin and vernacular Masses. I cannot understand why people complain about having to use a Missal in the Latin Mass, when they also use Missals in the vernacular Mass.