Why do we need to pray to Mary?

[psalm90]

The Blessed Virgin once requested of St. Catherine of Laboure to have the Miraculous Medal struck, and there were rays eminating from the Virgin Mary’s hands. However, there were some rays that were short or not existent. When St. Catherine asked Mary why this was, Mary replied that this was because these represented graces not received because they weren’t requested. So apparently, we need to cooperate in our own salvation. It is not given effortlessly. We need to work for it.

I agree, that, as Pope Benedict XVI said in “Jesus of Nazareth” we have a right and duty to pray for our needs.

Then we hear, God knows what we need before we ask for it and we don’t know how to pray as we ought, so the Holy Spirit intercedes somehow.

It’s the logic that trips me up.

a specific example recently: In the fifth apparition at Fatima, the Lady told the children not to tell anybody about what they had seen. They didn’t seem to do a very good job of obeying Mary (the “Lady”).

Then, I watched part of one EWTN program on the message of Fatima and the message was not “of Fatima” at all – Years later, allegedly Lucia had later visions far from Fatima, and these included the business about the 5 Saturdays. In reality, that was not a message of Fatima at all. Lucia reportedly had these visions in 1926 and 1929 way north in Portugal or Spain. It seem misleading to call that out as the message of Fatima when it wasn’t.

 

[psalm90]

But before she told the servants to “do whatever He tells you,” she* interceded *with her Son on behalf of the wedding party.

Yes, but do we know if they sought her intercession or intervention? If it were so important to the whole idea, why wouldn’t the gospel emphasize that Mary’s intercession was “prayed” for (i.e. “asked” for)?

It seems that people want to add details to the gospel to build their case for this or that.

Doesn’t St. Paul say someplace that some non-believers or false-believers make up things to “tickle their ears”? Their are people who are so overwhelmed by the stories that they “walk” on their knees at the shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico city or at the shrine at Fatima.

 

[USMC_Convert]

If I was looking at this from a non-biased point of view (which I am biased because I am a Marian devotee, just to get that out there for anyone that doesn’t know that yet) but if I was trying to figure this out and I had no pre-disposition either way I think I would look in three places.

I’d look at the Bible, I’d say, hmmm, not much in there. Yes there are several passages which elude to or reference or can be interpreted as having a devotion to Mary, but not a lot. But there is irrefutable proof that she is our Queen. Okay…next.

I’d look at the Church’s teachings and Tradition, well there’s a lot in there that says devotion to Mary. From the earliest times, there’s devotion to the Blessed Mother. Okay, what else.

I’d look at the Saints. Wow, there’s a lot, I mean an overwhelming majority of Saints that speak, and promote devotion to the Blessed Mother. Granted, for some, there is no absolute proof in the form of quotes or books about it, but it is eluded to. Say, just to throw a ball park number (no idea if this is accurate, just going off of what I have read about) 80% of the Saints have said, practiced and promoted devotion to the Blessed Mother.

Well that’s better than 2 out of 3, because you can’t discount the Bible, no its not black and white, but neither are a lot of things we profess and believe in.

I think if I was looking at this from an unbiased stand point I’d have to go with doing a Marian devotion. Is it required, No, is it needed for salvation, No, is it recommended, well, an overwhelming majority of those who we can absolutely say are in heaven say Yes.

Unfortunately I cannot be unbiased. I have been at both extremes, but never in the middle. I went from fearing to even pray for the Blessed Mother’s intercession, to doing St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion and Consecration to Mary.

Finally, like I always say, never take my word for it, do your own research, let the Holy Spirit guide you. If He guides you to His spouse, great! If not, follow Him wherever it is you are meant to be.

God Bless…

 

[Rosebud77]

Yes, but do we know if they sought her intercession or intervention? If it were so important to the whole idea, why wouldn’t the gospel emphasize that Mary’s intercession was “prayed” for (i.e. “asked” for)?

**It seems that people want to add details to the gospel to build their case for this or that.
**
Doesn’t St. Paul say someplace that some non-believers or false-believers make up things to “tickle their ears”? Their are people who are so overwhelmed by the stories that they “walk” on their knees at the shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico city or at the shrine at Fatima.

Nail on the head. WOW.

Pure simple gospel can be hard to take. Stripping away all the layers of the centuries. Hiding in ceremonies? My illness stripped all that away from me and it was not an easy progress but worthwhile now .

Here in Ireland we have Croagh Patrick and Lough Derg, .

 

[roamingitalian]

Why wouldn’t you want to pray to her? She’s our Mother, and a mother is suppose to help her children, isn’t she? We ask her to intercede for us and to implore her Son for our intentions. Yes, we could just pray directly to God and that would be more than enough, but I think our Lady likes to hear from us and gives her great joy when we do so.

 

[FatherSebastian]

I have a whole one hour study on this subject if you are interested. Check it out here

 

[Fiasco]

I think you need to do some serious work on this.

Jesus is God. He says so. Not human.

If you understand Salvation History, you’ll know what i mean.
The symbolism: The eldest brother did whatever he could to buy his younger siblings out of captivity/slavery. In His two natures, Jesus purchased US from the slavery of sin and condemnation.

i thank Scott Hahn, a great Scripture scholar and theologian, for his talks on Salvation History and related issues.

Mary is human, Period,

She’s also the mother of the Redeemer, and worthy of acknowledgement. She herself said that “from henceforth”, all generations would call her blessed.

On the Cross, Jesus gave Mary to us, and us to her. All of us should be beloved disciples, spiritually accepting her, as John physically accepted her as if she were his mother.

OK if you feel you “need to” but many of us do not and do not pray to anyone but Him .

And ignore the rest of our spiritual family.
Again, there’s the tendency towards that “Me 'n” Jesus" outlook.
The Letter to the Hebrews says we’re in a race, and we’re surrounded by a cloud of witnesses barracking us on. The witnesses are those who have made it, and are happy to pray for us if we ask.

" I am the way , the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me… I and the Father are one… "

Nothing alters the truth that The Church is FAMILY. Most of Protestantism will deny that until Doomsday, but that changes nothing.** Individualism runs rampant in the collapsing/imploding West.**

Scott Hahn woke me up to those two bolded truths, as well.

 

[arthra]

Baha’is believe in intercessory prayer… We don’t pray to Mary but the topic of intercessory prayer has been mentioned…

Someone present asked how it was that in prayer and meditation the heart often turns with instinctive appeal to some friend who has passed into the next life.

'Abdu’l-Bahá answered:* “It is a law of God’s creation that the weak should lean upon the strong. Those to whom you turn may be the mediators of God’s power to you, even as when on earth. But it is the One Holy Spirit that strengthens all men.” Hereupon another friend referred to the communing of Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses and Elijah; and 'Abdu’l-Bahá said: “The faithful are ever sustained by the presence of the Supreme Concourse. In the Supreme Concourse are Jesus, and Moses, and Elijah, and Bahá’u’lláh, and other supreme Souls: there, also, are the martyrs.”*
(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 96)

 

[MaryT777]

She bore God in her womb. Carried our salvation and was a slave for God for our benefit. She is, in a sense, ‘co redeemer’ as she played her role perfectly. Just as John the Baptist and the apostles.

But, the scriptures point us directly to Jesus…over and over again. No qualifiers…we are supposed to come boldly to Him.

These kinds of quotes scare potential converts away.

Exactly. I had a woman in my church who was a convert from the Lutheran Church and she did not ask for Mary’s intercession, or pray the rosary. She was taught from youth to pray straight to God.

Several people at daily Mass when she told them such made such a huge deal about it like she couldn’t be save (one extreme) or she was “missing out.”

She talked to the priest. No Catholic is REQIRED to pray to Mary or pray the rosary.
These are private devotions and I agree that it scares converts away. She had a wonderful prayer life by meditation on scriptures, reading the Bible an hour a day etc.
That was what was comfortable to her as a convert.

She was also a regular Daily Mass attender.

Mary.

 

[Nigel7]

Here’s one of the saint quotes:

‘Our Lord ordained that no one shall obtain salvation except through her intercession.’
–St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

I love our mother Mary very much and ask for her to help me follow after our Lord, but I disagree with St. Alphonsus’ statement posted above.

 

[Fiasco]

I love our mother Mary very much and ask for her to help me follow after our Lord, but I disagree with St. Alphonsus’ statement posted above.

i’ve never read any of his stuff, but read a piece by Karl Keating saying that St Alphonsus’ language is very flowery, and that the anti-Catholic Dave Hunt made (still makes?) use of his writings when debating Catholics…“proving” Mariolatry etc.
Sounds like St Alphonsus’ prose isn’t for everyone, at least not until it’s understood in the right context.

i’ll admit that some Catholics go dangerously close to worshiping Our Lady, and some even cross the line. There’s a heresy, from France, which says that she doesn’t have a biological father!

Someone told me that she regards Mary as an extension of the Blessed Trinity!
A holy card from some alleged Marian apparition in Italy, with the words: “I am the one, who I am, in the heart of the Holy Trinity,”!

 

[friardchips]

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

** II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 “All generations will call me blessed”:

**"The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 **

The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion.

From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . .

This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516

**The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.*517

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11

ewtn.com/expert/answers/heresy_schism_apostasy.htm

*'Definitions

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines these three sins against the faith in this way:

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.

"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;…’*

*'Excommunication

When it comes to Catholics who are formally guilty of heresy, apostasy or schism, the Church applies the penalty of excommunication. The 1983 Code of Canon Law, repeating the sanctions of the earlier 1917 Code, states,…’ *

The part on excommunication is particularly essential to read before commencing in dialogue those those who persistently oppose, reject and refuse to believe Catholic truths.

 

[friardchips]

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
*
;829 “But while in the most Blessed Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle, the faithful still strive to conquer sin and increase in holiness. And so they turn their eyes to Mary”:306 in her, the Church is already the “all-holy.”’*

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a2.htm

’ I. THE NAME OF THE LORD IS HOLY…

2142 The second commandment prescribes respect for the Lord’s name. Like the first commandment, it belongs to the virtue of religion and more particularly it governs our use of speech in sacred matters.

2146 The second commandment forbids the abuse of God’s name, i.e., every improper use of the names of God, Jesus Christ, but also of the Virgin Mary and all the saints.

2148 The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things.

2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of God’s name. Blasphemy is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints in an offensive way.’

 

[Wesrock]

Christians are one community, one body. We are not just a bunch of individuals connected to Christ, but through Christ are connected to each other. We pray for each other, we ask for prayers from one another, we offer up our personal sacrifices for one another.

1 Corinthians 12

12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

. …18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

…22 …the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

And furthermore:

James 5

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Among the righteous friends of Christ, Mary is with the highest.

 

[tm21]

Your question presumes that Mary knows all your needs without you bringing them to her. That is not necessarily true. God desires us to be in communion with the Saints in heaven…so praying to the Saints in heaven is fitting and beneficial. Due to Mary’s unique role in Salvation history…prayers to her are especially fitting and beneficial (although not strictly required as mentioned by others). God bless you.

 

[friardchips]

Your question presumes that Mary knows all your needs without you bringing them to her. That is not necessarily true. God desires us to be in communion with the Saints in heaven…so praying to the Saints in heaven is fitting and beneficial. Due to Mary’s unique role in Salvation history…prayers to her are especially fitting and beneficial (although not strictly required as mentioned by others). God bless you.

Incorrect.

The Catholic Church prays unceasingly, and therefore, all prayers are intercessory, through the hierarchy of grace.

As explained in the Catechism already. Though other sources can be found too.

It is also a matter of Dogma.

 

[friardchips]

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

'. . . also in her Assumption

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509’

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Exactly. I had a woman in my church who was a convert from the Lutheran Church and she did not ask for Mary’s intercession, or pray the rosary. She was taught from youth to pray straight to God.

Several people at daily Mass when she told them such made such a huge deal about it like she couldn’t be save (one extreme) or she was “missing out.”

She talked to the priest. No Catholic is REQIRED to pray to Mary or pray the rosary.
These are private devotions and I agree that it scares converts away. She had a wonderful prayer life by meditation on scriptures, reading the Bible an hour a day etc.
That was what was comfortable to her as a convert.

She was also a regular Daily Mass attender.

Mary.

Yeah, and she had every right not ask Mary for prayer if that’s what she wants. Glad the priest straightened it out. Or so it sounds.

Fr. Don told me here, in reply that the Vatican knows that Mariology needs reform as it’s become a problem with some who have this extreme devotion to her.

This sort of stuff prolonged my entrance into the Church for years.

 

[friardchips]

Yeah, and she had every right not ask Mary for prayer if that’s what she wants. Glad the priest straightened it out. Or so it sounds.

…Mariology needs reform as it’s become a problem with some who have this extreme devotion to her.

This sort of stuff prolonged my entrance into the Church for years.

True mariology takes all of Salvation History in account.

The Church requires those who are willing to say to God: “Let thy will be done”, not
“Let my Will be done” i.e: my own personal likes or dislikes.

If one is opposed in any way to the faith of the Church then they need to read the documents provided at the end of links on this thread.

 

[FatherSebastian]

This whole debate can be cleared up by simply reading what the Bible has to say. Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, can all agree that the Bible is the word of God and so it is there that we can find common ground. We covered this very topic (Mary in the Bible) in our bible study and the recording is here steliasmelkite.org/userfiles/pdf/1479250962.mp3