Why do we think there will be no suffering in heaven?

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The pinnacle of Christian virtue is to accept the suffering God permits us to experience with joy. Why shouldn’t we think that God’s presence is tortuous to all souls, and saints are just those who have become sufficiently masochistic to feel ecstasy from it?

“I am no longer capable of suffering, for all suffering is sweet to me.” -St. Therese of Lisieux
 
Heaven places those there in the presence of God.
God did not intend for there to be suffering, suffering
was the result of the Fall. Jesus washes us of the stain
of Original Sin. Our souls can be free of it only through Him.
His Sacrifice is full price paid for Original Sin, but Earth
and all its inhabitants are still under Sin’s TEMPORAL penalty.
Note, temporal penalty, not spiritual/soul penalty.
While here on this Earth, in THIS time, suffering with Christ AS Christ
suffered and the Blessed Mother, the Apostles and the Saints
suffered is the highest form possible of being one with the Father.
How much suffering you endure, however, is not your choice.
Follow the Commandments and live as Christ taught, open
your heart and mind completely to His Grace, then suffering
shall be where it may, according to His Will in your lifetime here.
 
The pinnacle of Christian virtue is to accept the suffering God permits us to experience with joy. Why shouldn’t we think that God’s presence is tortuous to all souls, and saints are just those who have become sufficiently masochistic to feel ecstasy from it?
“I am no longer capable of suffering, for all suffering is sweet to me.” -St. Therese of Lisieux
Suffering is evil,
and anybody who says suffering is a privilege, a gift, or any hogwash along that line has never suffered because they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Clarify your thinking. A joyful life increases love. A painful life decreases love.
 
Suffering is evil,
and anybody who says suffering is a privilege, a gift, or any hogwash along that line has never suffered because they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Clarify your thinking. A joyful life increases love. A painful life decreases love.
This is wrong. Your Joy should NOT arise from your propensity to please
your desires or emotional/physical comfort levels in this world.
Your joy must come from God alone. Those
who suffer for Christ and for the Father are joyful in spirit, joyful in soul,
but they are still suffering. Christ suffered, the Apostles and Saints
and the Blessed Mother all suffered. Job suffered. Without the Holy courage
to endure suffering, you place your soul in grave danger to the wiles of
the Prince of Darkness.
 
This is wrong. Your Joy should NOT arise from your propensity to please
your desires or emotional/physical comfort levels in this world.
Your joy must come from God alone. Those
who suffer for Christ and for the Father are joyful in spirit, joyful in soul,
but they are still suffering. Christ suffered, the Apostles and Saints
and the Blessed Mother all suffered. Job suffered. Without the Holy courage
to endure suffering, you place your soul in grave danger to the wiles of
the Prince of Darkness.
I suggest that learned helplessness is superior to courage, since courage is more likely to fail than fear. Courage implies that suffering must be borne with gritted teeth. Helplessness accepts suffering completely, embracing it with limp arms.
 
The pinnacle of Christian virtue is to accept the suffering God permits us to experience with joy. Why shouldn’t we think that God’s presence is tortuous to all souls, and saints are just those who have become sufficiently masochistic to feel ecstasy from it?

“I am no longer capable of suffering, for all suffering is sweet to me.” -St. Therese of Lisieux
The analogy of masochism does not apply here.

The purpose of (redemptive) suffering here is to purify us. Recognizing this fact can make such suffering “sweet” as St Therese says.

So let’s look at another analogy…A person sets a goal to run in the Boston Marathon next year. They begin training. That training involves suffering and sacrifice. New disciplines like getting up early to run every day…expenses for the right equipment and advice…physical pain from stiff joints, aching muscles, loss of sleep etc.
But through all of this you see gain. You have better wind - you are eating better - more stamina - things that cause you pain before no longer bother you so you can push even further to the “perfection” of running that 26 miles, 385 yards called a marathon.
Because you are focused on the goal…you do not count the sufferings as sufferings…rather they are simply things to be endured on the way to the goal.

Heaven is, of course far beyond any analogy we can offer but the reason that we cannot suffer in heaven is that our wills are perfectly at one with God’s Will. The soul is resides together with that which is loves above all else. How can there be suffering when one is united to their one and only love?

Your question is a good one but you need to understand that, by the time one reaches heaven they are, along with all the Holy Saints" pure and their only desire is to be with their Love - which is Love itself - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…

Peace
James
 
Suffering is evil,
and anybody who says suffering is a privilege, a gift, or any hogwash along that line has never suffered because they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Suffering may or may not be “evil” depending on how one reacts to it.
Everyone has suffered - I have suffered and in fact am suffering now - yet I WILL say that the suffering I have experienced has been a gift…
However - I will grant that there have been those who have suffered more than I have - much much more - I have seen it and I have also seen the holiness of it in those who know Christ.

I do not desire suffering and I do not seek it out. But I know that suffering exists and that there is a portion reserved fro me. I will accept it to the best of my ability and hope that My Lord, as well as His ministers, will see me through it just has they have done so far in my life.
Clarify your thinking. A joyful life increases love. A painful life decreases love.
I agree with this. The OP does need to clarify his thinking and joy does increase love…but Love increases joy…and it is Love that we are called to…not Joy.

Peace
James
 
JRKH, could we not say then, that when it comes to suffering, the end justifies the means? Morally repugnant for humans, but somehow not for the source of all morality.

Here’s an analogy for you: becoming a saint is like sifting an entire mountain to find the few grams of gold in it. Perhaps the rest wasn’t worth saving anyway, but I suspect that whatever we become would seem terrifying and alien to us if we were to encounter it prior to being sufficiently “purified.”
 
So let’s look at another analogy…A person sets a goal to run in the Boston Marathon next year. They begin training. That training involves suffering and sacrifice. New disciplines like getting up early to run every day…expenses for the right equipment and advice…physical pain from stiff joints, aching muscles, loss of sleep etc.
But through all of this you see gain. You have better wind - you are eating better - more stamina - things that cause you pain before no longer bother you so you can push even further to the “perfection” of running that 26 miles, 385 yards called a marathon.
Because you are focused on the goal…you do not count the sufferings as sufferings…rather they are simply things to be endured on the way to the goal.
Uh hunh. 😊
There is suffering that has no point, that serves no purpose, that has no goal, that gives no gain, that is suffering for nothing. Period.
This is evil, and nothing good comes from it.
 
JRKH, could we not say then, that when it comes to suffering, the end justifies the means? Morally repugnant for humans, but somehow not for the source of all morality.

Here’s an analogy for you: becoming a saint is like sifting an entire mountain to find the few grams of gold in it. Perhaps the rest wasn’t worth saving anyway, but I suspect that whatever we become would seem terrifying and alien to us if we were to encounter it prior to being sufficiently “purified.”
Following the internet tradition of replying to comments directed at other people:

It is not that the good ends of some suffering justify the causing of suffering, but rather that suffering happens (either directly for bad reasons and in and unjustified way, or as an unfortunate side effect of some other action which was justified) and that it may have good effects.

It is not necessary that something with good effects must necessarily be justified by these good effects - no matter how good the effects are. For example, the murder of Christ was completely unjustified and an evil thing to do, but an immeasurable amount of good came out of it.
 
Following the internet tradition of replying to comments directed at other people:

It is not that the good ends of some suffering justify the causing of suffering, but rather that suffering happens (either directly for bad reasons and in and unjustified way, or as an unfortunate side effect of some other action which was justified) and that it may have good effects.

It is not necessary that something with good effects must necessarily be justified by these good effects - no matter how good the effects are. For example, the murder of Christ was completely unjustified and an evil thing to do, but an immeasurable amount of good came out of it.
I agree, but how does this allow us to infer that suffering doesn’t occur in heaven? One of the goods that came from Christ’s crucifixion is the call to pick up our cross and follow him. Christ’s greatest act of love was to die for us. Why shouldn’t we think of the “city on the hill” he spoke of as Golgotha writ large?
 
I agree, but how does this allow us to infer that suffering doesn’t occur in heaven? One of the goods that came from Christ’s crucifixion is the call to pick up our cross and follow him. Christ’s greatest act of love was to die for us. Why shouldn’t we think of the “city on the hill” he spoke of as Golgotha writ large?
Because suffering is always the result of sin (direct or indirect) and in heaven there will be no sin.
 
are you serious? lololol. either you have never truly suffered or you are poorly catechized.
 
To the original question: why do we think there will be no suffering in heaven.

Heaven is the state in which the soul finds herself at the presence of God. In God there is no sorrow or suffering, thus in heaven these passions are not present.

Suffering furthermore is not desirable in itself, never.

Even Christ did not want to suffer.

Suffering, however, in this life has a redemptive value. It can gain things.

We see it in the secular world: anything worth gaining - so to speak - requires suffering. Be it making money to provide for a family, studying to get a degree, training to win a race. It takes suffering.

The same is true for the spiritual world.

When we reach knowledge of the truthfulness of this fact, then we can accept and even love suffering, not in itself, but because of what it allows us to achieve - especially when we are achieving something for others.

And if we love suffering for itself, then we do have a problem.
 
The pinnacle of Christian virtue is to accept the suffering God permits us to experience with joy. Why shouldn’t we think that God’s presence is tortuous to all souls, and saints are just those who have become sufficiently masochistic to feel ecstasy from it?

“I am no longer capable of suffering, for all suffering is sweet to me.” -St. Therese of Lisieux
Well if that were the case than we should praise Hitler, Stalin and all the other mass murderers because of the suffering they have brought. We should also praise abusers, murderers, thieves because of the suffering they have brought. Read the Beatitudes,
one verse would be

Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted

It does not say

Blessed be the mourning for they shall remain in mourning and mourning is good for them

Jesus went around healing people not making them more sick so they could suffer more.

Suffering does have redemptive value that’s true but that is not the whole goal of life. The goal of life is to know God and to grow close to him and that might entail suffering.
We should not seek suffering but seek God.
 
JRKH, could we not say then, that when it comes to suffering, the end justifies the means? Morally repugnant for humans, but somehow not for the source of all morality.

Here’s an analogy for you: becoming a saint is like sifting an entire mountain to find the few grams of gold in it. Perhaps the rest wasn’t worth saving anyway, but I suspect that whatever we become would seem terrifying and alien to us if we were to encounter it prior to being sufficiently “purified.”
I’m Glad Iron Donkey jumped in on this as he did a great job in responding…better than I could.

That said - I like the analogy above…particularly as it relates to the problem posed in the OP. That which might terrify the “impure” will give joy to the “pure”.

This is why Love is such an important component - actually it is the core - of our faith…the basis of all of the law and all of the prophets (Mt 22:36-40(- and the greatest of the virtues (1 Cor 13:1-13) and the very essence of God (1 John 4:7-8).
The more we Love - the less other things matter - the more joy we have.
When we are perfected (in Love) - or purified to tie to the analogy - and we enter heaven, how could the image of God - Pure Love - be anything but a pure joy to we who are now - ourselves - purified.

Peace
James
 
I agree, but how does this allow us to infer that suffering doesn’t occur in heaven? One of the goods that came from Christ’s crucifixion is the call to pick up our cross and follow him. Christ’s greatest act of love was to die for us. Why shouldn’t we think of the “city on the hill” he spoke of as Golgotha writ large?
I’m no theologian, and I don’t think we can really know the answer anyway, but I think of it this way:

We are told that, at the end of the world, we will have glorified bodies; perfect in every respect. We are at least encouraged to believe the universe will be our oyster. We will be able to go about without the limitations of time or distance. If so (space being rather uncomfortably cold) it also stands to reason we would be able to journey into the interior of a star. If our bodies are perfect, we would then be able to feel those millions of degrees just as they are. But, since we would be invulnerable to harm from those millions of degrees and pain being the body’s warning of tissue damage that would not actually be occurring, we would feel the millions of degrees just as they are, but not feel them as pain.

Perhaps there is suffering in heaven in a way. After all, Jesus’ suffering on the cross is from all eternity into all eternity. Will we be ignorant of, say, the tragedies in the world or would we somehow just not care? Or, would we still have human emotions, feel them fully, and yet not experience them as pain? After all, if a body can be glorified, why cannot a mind be glorified also?

The emotional pain a human suffers is also a “warning”, just as physical pain is a warning. We feel remorse as a prompting not to do a particular act again. We feel sorrow as a signal that our acceptance of Providence is faulty; we would change God’s will if we could. But in heaven, do we need those reactions any more when our souls can no longer be harmed, than we need pain reactions when our bodies can no longer be harmed? Will we feel the “million degrees of emotional heat” and yet not be adversely affected by them?

We understand that, in heaven, we will be unified with God. We don’t know quite what that means, but we would not be assuming too much to take it to include partaking in the “symmetry” that is in God, who can be sorrowful (as Jesus was) about the sin of the world, yet also see the “big picture”; how God brings good from evil, and see it simultaneously and fully so that our soul’s repose is not truly disturbed.

Parenthetically, I have sometimes wondered whether the situation of Adam and Eve in Paradise was no more complicated than their having been fully accepting of Providence; accepting cold, heat, hunger and pain without in any manner objecting to it or feeling put upon by it, until they demanded the power to distinguish.

Thinking about saints like Ste Therese, then, it would be wrong to think of her as a masochist, and correct to think of her as a person who (at least to whatever degree it was true of her) accepted Divine Providence fully out of her love for God. That’s a very different thing.

But as with many things about heaven, we really won’t know until we’re there.
 
I think if the few saints in heaven could see the endless torture and burning in fire of those in hell, they SHOULD feel something for those suffering. If they didnt they wouldnt be human. Those saint would therefore be suffering by feeling sorrow for those being burnt. I think its a point worth making cause you dont have a heaven without a hell.
 
I think if the few saints in heaven could see the endless torture and burning in fire of those in hell, they SHOULD feel something for those suffering. If they didnt they wouldnt be human. Those saint would therefore be suffering by feeling sorrow for those being burnt. I think its a point worth making cause you dont have a heaven without a hell.
This reminded me of what Jesus said to St. Faustina regarding the first day of the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

“Today bring to Me all mankind, especially all sinners,
and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. In this way you will console Me in the bitter grief into which the loss of souls plunges Me.”

So not only the Saints feel sorrow but also Jesus.
 
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