Why do we think there will be no suffering in heaven?

[Candescent]

Here’s an analogy for you: becoming a saint is like sifting an entire mountain to find the few grams of gold in it. Perhaps the rest wasn’t worth saving anyway, but I suspect that whatever we become would seem terrifying and alien to us if we were to encounter it prior to being sufficiently “purified.”

That is a very interesting thought-maybe a good Sci Fi plot in there with a Catholic twist.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think if the few saints in heaven could see the endless torture and burning in fire of those in hell, they SHOULD feel something for those suffering. If they didnt they wouldnt be human. Those saint would therefore be suffering by feeling sorrow for those being burnt. I think its a point worth making cause you dont have a heaven without a hell.

Of course, all those in hell intended and presently intend to be there. They would not leave if they could. And so, there would be a sorrow of a sort on the part of saints, but it seems to me it would be different from what we might think.

 

[GEddie]

I won’t get into the philosophy of suffering, as I am not a philosopher nor care to be one.

I will concur that those who call suffering a “gift” do sound callous as all heck; and such glib remarks should be avoided.

However, in Revelation, Saint John said that our LORD would " wipe all tears from their eyes". Tears imply suffering, so maybe suffering is not altogether absent in Heaven.

This could be related to what we call Purgatory. Peter Kreeft has suggested that Heaven and Purgatory are not separable.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Ion]

Suffering makes you think. You stop being busy, and think.
If you can’t get rid of it, then what? You think.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I won’t get into the philosophy of suffering, as I am not a philosopher nor care to be one.

I will concur that those who call suffering a “gift” do sound callous as all heck; and such glib remarks should be avoided.

However, in Revelation, Saint John said that our LORD would " wipe all tears from their eyes". Tears imply suffering, so maybe suffering is not altogether absent in Heaven.

This could be related to what we call Purgatory. Peter Kreeft has suggested that Heaven and Purgatory are not separable.

ICXC NIKA

You may suffer in heaven, but somehow your tears will be wiped away from your eyes.
You will still feel the pain, but at the very least you will not have to suffer tears running all the way down your face as you realize your loved ones are never going to be with you again. Because they did not want to be with your God for an eternity and you did want to be with your God for eternity.
You won! That should be a comfort to you then.

 

[Dave_B]

Of course, all those in hell intended and presently intend to be there. They would not leave if they could. And so, there would be a sorrow of a sort on the part of saints, but it seems to me it would be different from what we might think.

“They would not leave if they could.” Eternal torment and torture. Of course, they would leave! Wouldnt you? Seriously if you were suffering in hell-fire, wouldnt you chose to leave if you had a way out.

 

[JRKH]

“They would not leave if they could.” Eternal torment and torture. Of course, they would leave! Wouldnt you? Seriously if you were suffering in hell-fire, wouldnt you chose to leave if you had a way out.

This is a good question and one that does not have an easy answer. I agree that they would leave if they could…

If one has a way out of a burning building - one would take it right? That is because one recognizes the danger and acts properly and accordingly to known (or perceived) the circumstances…Yet sometimes people just don’t recognize the danger until it is too late.

Back in 1980 there was a fellow - an old man - living in the shadow of Mt St Helens. His name was Harry R. Truman. He could have left…People told him to leave…He chose not to…Now he can’t…

This is a classic case…which I realize does not answer the question - would they leave if they could.

Perhaps more to that point are the people who are always in trouble but never really try to change their behavior. They are self-centered - angry - act often without thinking - or with little regard for others. Everything that goes wrong in their lives is someone else’s fault…they are perpetually “broke” but never want to work overtime…Grouse about not making enough money but never lift a finger to do more than the minimum necessary…think nothing of stealing or cheating if they think they can get away with it…

I’ve known such people and I’m sure that you have too.

Besides the things above - all mixed together in various ways - these same people look down on anything good. Church goers are “holier than thou”, hard workers are, “brown-nosers” and anything good and wholesome is to be ridiculed, belittled and avoided at all costs.

Such people are never happy and remain mired in their own “hell on earth” by their own volition. These people do not leave this hell of their own choosing - even though they can and even though others try to help them and show them the way out…

We - who recognize their plight - can do nothing but shake our heads and wonder, “why can’t they see?”, “How can they be so foolish”?, wonder “Will they ever learn?”

Of course some do - especially younger people who eventually mature (at least somewhat). But there are those who remain trapped in this hellish cycle regardless of all attempts to help them.

I think that it is this “type” of person that is referred to when we say that they would not leave (hell) even if they could.

I know the above is not a full answer to your question - and probably is not convincing on the face of it…but I offer them as thoughts for your consideration…that might provide additional perspective on the issue.

Peace
James

 

[jkiernan56]

Your question is a good one but you need to understand that, by the time one reaches heaven they are, along with all the Holy Saints" pure and their only desire is to be with their Love - which is Love itself - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…

Peace
James

Heaven is so much more than just “me” and “God”. You will have all eternity enjoying all your brothers and sisters and living in communion with them

 

[R_C]

“They would not leave if they could.” Eternal torment and torture. Of course, they would leave! Wouldnt you? Seriously if you were suffering in hell-fire, wouldnt you chose to leave if you had a way out.

This argument completely ignores the nature of the state of hell, or for that matter of the afterlife. Eternity is not an infinite time, but it can be described with a rather close approximation as “an instant that has neither past nor future”. It is outside of time.

The souls who have made the definite choice of rejecting God in time and have died unrepentant find themselves before the infinite goodness of the living God and literally cannot stand it, because they have rejected it. The state of hell is nothing but this self-imposed eternal rejection of God. In fact, God neither imposes eternal torment, nor torture. God loves. Period. It is them who impose the sufferings on themselves, against God’s will.

It is an infallible teaching that nobody goes to hell without knowing they are headed there. Not one person. Therefore if they would leave, they’d do it before it’s too late. The way out is here, and it’s contrition, repentance, reparation, and following God’s will to the best of one’s knowledge. Whoever willfully and knowingly consents to go against this and do evil will have to pay the price. People who do evil deeds are mostly aware of their doing and choose not to stop. They chose to walk away from righteousness, to offend justice, to ignore mercy. Well, guess what: God is righteousness. God is justice. God is mercy. You reject those, you reject God. Remember the example made by Christ? “Lord, we walked with you and ate with you!”. “No. I was hungry but you did not feed me. I was sick and you did not cure me.” “When?” “Every time you did it to the least of my brothers, you have done it to me!”

If it is surprising to you that the damned souls would not leave hell, what of the fact that nobody goes to hell unless he chooses to?

 

[StrawberryJam]

This argument completely ignores the nature of the state of hell, or for that matter of the afterlife. Eternity is not an infinite time, but it can be described with a rather close approximation as “an instant that has neither past nor future”. It is outside of time.

The souls who have made the definite choice of rejecting God in time and have died unrepentant find themselves before the infinite goodness of the living God and literally cannot stand it, because they have rejected it. The state of hell is nothing but this self-imposed eternal rejection of God. In fact, God neither imposes eternal torment, nor torture. God loves. Period. It is them who impose the sufferings on themselves, against God’s will.

It is an infallible teaching that nobody goes to hell without knowing they are headed there. Not one person. Therefore if they would leave, they’d do it before it’s too late. The way out is here, and it’s contrition, repentance, reparation, and following God’s will to the best of one’s knowledge. Whoever willfully and knowingly consents to go against this and do evil will have to pay the price. People who do evil deeds are mostly aware of their doing and choose not to stop. They chose to walk away from righteousness, to offend justice, to ignore mercy. Well, guess what: God is righteousness. God is justice. God is mercy. You reject those, you reject God. Remember the example made by Christ? “Lord, we walked with you and ate with you!”. “No. I was hungry but you did not feed me. I was sick and you did not cure me.” “When?” “Every time you did it to the least of my brothers, you have done it to me!”

If it is surprising to you that the damned souls would not leave hell, what of the fact that nobody goes to hell unless he chooses to?

If you love someone who is damned, you will not shed even one single tear about it.

 

[R_C]

If you love someone who is damned, you will not shed even one single tear about it.

I don’t understand your point. Certainly neither God nor any saved soul is pleased or rejoices over the damnation of any single soul.

However, there are passions that are disordered and arise from our current imperfections - including imperfect use of reason. Suffering is often among these, but not always.

The other point being that since nobody in this life can tell for sure who is in the state of hell and who isn’t, we always pray for souls of loved ones regardless of the kind of life they have led. It is in fact improper Christian behavior to judge people (as in to determine beforehand or even after death whether or not someone was saved).

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t understand your point. Certainly neither God nor any saved soul is pleased or rejoices over the damnation of any single soul.

However, there are passions that are disordered and arise from our current imperfections - including imperfect use of reason. Suffering is often among these, but not always.

The other point being that since nobody in this life can tell for sure who is in the state of hell and who isn’t, we always pray for souls of loved ones regardless of the kind of life they have led. It is in fact improper Christian behavior to judge people (as in to determine beforehand or even after death whether or not someone was saved).

Do you even know what the OP’s topic was?

Suffering after judgement.

You have totally missed the point here.

 

[Pugsly]

The pinnacle of Christian virtue is to accept the suffering God permits us to experience with joy. Why shouldn’t we think that God’s presence is tortuous to all souls, and saints are just those who have become sufficiently masochistic to feel ecstasy from it?

“I am no longer capable of suffering, for all suffering is sweet to me.” -St. Therese of Lisieux

Here’s a curious verse from Scripture “the Tree of Life will bear fruit on both sides of the River…and its leaves shall be for the healing of the nations…”…???

Healing what?

A second thought to consider…pain is not intrinsically evil (atleast not on biological level)

 

[Paddy_Walker]

You may suffer in heaven, but somehow your tears will be wiped away from your eyes.
You will still feel the pain, but at the very least you will not have to suffer tears running all the way down your face as you realize your loved ones are never going to be with you again. Because they did not want to be with your God for an eternity and you did want to be with your God for eternity.
You won! That should be a comfort to you then.

God is love. when those people at the door tried to enter but the door was locked against them, He said I know you not, whence you are. love does not know those people or from where they came. they are strangers to love. so your loved ones are those you know by love [christians love one another], those who are strangers are those whom love does not know.

the two most important commandments we were given are to love God and to love our neighbour as ourselves. entry to heaven is dependent on love. if love itself does not recognize or know a person who is locked out of heaven then a person in heaven equally cannot recognize or know that person outside. the people outside have no love to recognize.

 

[Paddy_Walker]

Apocalypse 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away.

 

[tonyrey]

Pascal believed Jesus is in agony until the end of the world because of His compassion for all those who suffer…