Why Do Women Even Want To Be Priests?

[PRmerger]

Then I guess thats what the ignore button is for. good bye!

:bighanky: :sad_bye:

 

[PbloPicasso]

There are snakes in every religion. These days its hard to know who to trust.

Some christians are good, some are bad. Some doctors are good, some are bad. Some business men are good, some are bad.

There will always be snakes in the system.

Exactly the kind of thing I say.

I’m not sure what is being discussed about priests owning homes. I’m sure some do. I knew a newly ordained deacon that had one. I’m certain others bought them too if they had the resources. Some of these men are from well off families and priest do in fact retire. One of my best friends is about to transition from a diocese to the religious life. He does not own a home. Many priests also inherit wealth and are not obligated to give it to the poor or the diocese. A religious on the other hand must live up to his vow of poverty. Another religious priest I know was given a large amount of cash and he insisted that he be allowed to give it to Rachel’s Viniard, a ministry that he loves dearly so much he went back to school to finish his Masters in Counseling and got licensed.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Exactly the kind of thing I say.

I’m not sure what is being discussed about priests owning homes. I’m sure some do. I knew a newly ordained deacon that had one. I’m certain others bought them too if they had the resources. Some of these men are from well off families and priest do in fact retire. One of my best friends is about to transition from a diocese to the religious life. He does not own a home. Many priests also inherit wealth and are not obligated to give it to the poor or the diocese. A religious on the other hand must live up to his vow of poverty. Another religious priest I know was given a large amount of cash and he insisted that he be allowed to give it to Rachel’s Viniard, a ministry that he loves dearly so much he went back to school to finish his Masters in Counseling and got licensed.

Yep! I agree.

 

[larkin31]

Women want to be priests for the same reasons that men do: some self-serving, some God-serving, some people-serving.

 

[larkin31]

They’re being attention-seekers.

Do you mean that this is their primary motivation?

 

[PbloPicasso]

Yep! I agree.

This is funny because you as a non-Catholic Christian seem to know more than the Catholic giving you a hard time. Is my perception spot on or have i missed something? Our DRE said that 90% Catholics don’t know their own faith and all too often defend things with the wrong information. LOL. We not only found that hilarious but disturbing as well. He also said that he believes the converts to the Catholic Church would end up saving us from ourselves, meaning better catechesis or religious education. I never knew what the word “catechism” meant or came from until we went through RCIA. If you want to learn where a lot of our modern terms come from today, go through RCIA. Very cool.

 

[PRmerger]

This is funny because you as a non-Catholic Christian seem to know more than the Catholic giving you a hard time.

As the Catholic giving her “a hard time” I take exception to that!

Blueshadow has yet to show any evidence of how she knows “many priests” own their own homes.

(Unless you call “my dad’s family is Catholic” and “I have a lot of Catholic friends” evidence that the priest’s name is on the mortgage? )

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Women want to be priests for the same reasons that men do: some self-serving, some God-serving, some people-serving.

So does the ‘reason’ then justify their ‘ability’?

I mean, I 'm sure that most of us would feel that a person seeking to be a priest–a ‘role’ that is meant to be humble, self-sacrificing, all for God’s glory and not for his own --should not become a priest if they are doing so for a ‘wrong’ reason.

But suppose you have a person who truly ‘believes’ that he–or she–is being ‘called’ to this service. And this person truly ‘intends’ to do all the ‘good’ he–or she–possibly can.

Now here is the rub.

Suppose that the Faith you wish to serve says, “Only men may serve.” And you’re a woman.

If you want to serve God, do you say, "Yes, God, I understand, but even though you say “men only” I just know that either somebody ‘lied’ and you really said women are fine, or even if you said it I know you won’t **care that I don’t obey you, **because you would value what I DO as a priest over whether I obey your teaching."

Really, when it comes to women desiring to be priests, you have the following:

You have women --some of them no doubt very ‘good’ people–who are basically saying,

1. I don’t believe God really MEANT for women NOT to be priests.
2. I believe what I think I feel ‘called by God’ to do is more important that actually obeying what He has said. . .especially when I don’t believe he ‘really’ said it.
3. Because being a priest is more important to me than obeying what is taught–especially when I don’t ‘trust’ the teaching --I feel that I can justify the disobedience.
4. I feel that disobedience is less important–if it is important at all–than following my ‘conscience’. I feel that it is more important for me to do what I feel ‘entitled to’ than it is to comply with the faith that I am insisting I must be a ‘priest’ in, in order to be ‘equal’ or to have the kind of ‘fairness’ that I feel entitled to.

So it comes down to lack of trust, lack of obedience, and insistence that one’s ‘feelings’ are more important than actual teachings.

NOT exactly the best reasons to be a priest, you know?

“Hi, I’m Susie. I’m a real good Catholic who believes all the Catholic teachings, and I feel called to be a priest.”

“Um, Susie. Catholic teaching is that only men may be priests.”

“I know THAT, silly. But I feel CALLED to be a priest. And I’m a nice person. I’d make a good priest.”

"Um, Susie. You are a nice person, I’m sure. But you say that you believe all the Catholic teachings?

“Absolutely! That’s why I’d make a good priest! I know all about the sacraments, and I’ve read the Bible, and I pray a lot, and I love people.”

“Um, Susie. The Catholic Church teaches that only men may be priests.”

“I know THAT! I’ve read the Catechism. But He didn’t REALLY say that. I’ve read the Bible. Jesus never said, “men only.” Since He didn’t say that, then it’s all right for me to be a priest.”

“Um, Susie. Jesus didn’t say, “Porn is bad” either. But it is bad, and the Church teaches it’s bad.”

“I know THAT! everybody knows porn is bad. But that’s different.”

“How?”

“Um, it just is. Besides it isn’t just that Jesus didn’t say it. The Catholic Church never made an INFALLIBLE STATEMENT that women can’t be priests. So they can.”

“Um, Susie, what about Pope John Paul II and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis? He said that the Church had no authority to ordain women.”

“It wasn’t ex cathedra! It doesn’t count! Besides, the Church COULD SO have the authority if it wanted to, and it will! I want to be a PRIEST and you HAVE TO LET ME or you’re a big MEANIE and I will LEAVE and then it will be YOUR FAULT and you’ll go to HELL because you’re a nasty bigot.”

“Yes Susie, what a priest you would have made. . .”

 

[BlueShadow123]

As the Catholic giving her “a hard time” I take exception to that!

Blueshadow has yet to show any evidence of how she knows “many priests” own their own homes.

(Unless you call “my dad’s family is Catholic” and “I have a lot of Catholic friends” evidence that the priest’s name is on the mortgage? )

I’m not getting into this with you again. You have yet to read my posts apparently if that is how you respond.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not getting into this with you again. You have yet to read my posts apparently if that is how you respond.

I’ve read every single one of your posts on this thread, Blueshadow from the moment I joined.

You have made an assumption that was wrong.

 

[larkin31]

So does the ‘reason’ then justify their ‘ability’?

I mean, I 'm sure that most of us would feel that a person seeking to be a priest–a ‘role’ that is meant to be humble, self-sacrificing, all for God’s glory and not for his own --should not become a priest if they are doing so for a ‘wrong’ reason.

But suppose you have a person who truly ‘believes’ that he–or she–is being ‘called’ to this service. And this person truly ‘intends’ to do all the ‘good’ he–or she–possibly can.

Now here is the rub.

Suppose that the Faith you wish to serve says, “Only men may serve.” And you’re a woman.

If you want to serve God, do you say, "Yes, God, I understand, but even though you say “men only” I just know that either somebody ‘lied’ and you really said women are fine, or even if you said it I know you won’t **care that I don’t obey you, **because you would value what I DO as a priest over whether I obey your teaching."

There is no record of God or Jesus “saying” anything about the gender requirement of “priests” or any other religious positions of authority.

Other Christian sects gladly accept female priests who feel the calling and who satisfy all the other requirements that men do without having to pass the XY chromosome test.

 

[larkin31]

I’m not getting into this with you again. You have yet to read my posts apparently if that is how you respond.

I have had this poster on ignore for months now. I recommend your doing the same if you find that he/she does not honor your requests on this off-topic issue.

 

[BlueShadow123]

I have had this poster on ignore for months now. I recommend your doing the same if you find that he/she does not honor your requests on this off-topic issue.

I know, once I got your message, I ignored her.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

There is no record of God or Jesus “saying” anything about the gender requirement of “priests” or any other religious positions of authority.

Other Christian sects gladly accept female priests who feel the calling and who satisfy all the other requirements that men do without having to pass the XY chromosome test.

Ah, I see that you subscribe to the “Jesus never said” position.

So you don’t think that God’s ‘limitation’ of the Jewish priesthood to men (and this in a cultural era and area where women were actually the ‘preferred’ spiritual leaders) was ‘saying something’ about gender requirements? Why don’t you think that?

 

[larkin31]

Ah, I see that you subscribe to the “Jesus never said” position.

So you don’t think that God’s ‘limitation’ of the Jewish priesthood to men (and this in a cultural era and area where women were actually the ‘preferred’ spiritual leaders) was ‘saying something’ about gender requirements? Why don’t you think that?

When did God ever limit any leadership position to men?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

It’s not just the best way sometimes; sometimes it’s the only way, as I said. What is idiotic about that? Isn’t your claiming that it’s idiotic what is idiotic?

You argue with me…by insulting my phrasing?



How juvenile.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

When did God ever limit any leadership position to men?

If the priesthood of the Jewish people was not limited to men, why were there no female ‘priestesses’ when, among the societies and cultures of that time, such females were prevalent?

And if this was not a decision of God’s, where is your proof it was a decision of ‘men’?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

So what if you’ve considered them? Obviously you don’t understand them and my point stands: you’re not here to genuinely ask any questions about the truth of Catholicism, you think you already know all about it and are here just to encourage people to leave the Church. And I don’t think the Catholics who manage the board allow non-Catholics to join for the purpose of providing a forum for your kind of closed-minded anti-Catholic proselytizing. (Please refer to forum rules, Conduct rule #7.) Debate is fine, but you’re not even debating the issue; you’re just insisting that you think women who think women have a right to the priesthood just as much as men should leave the Church, without addressing the obvious reasons why they shouldn’t do this. You even seem to be pretending there are no such reasons, at least none worth seriously considering. That’s not a respectful or intelligent position to take.

Again here’s what you said:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
And I have NEVER advocated women becoming Catholic priests in this thread.

I have said repeatedly that I think they would be better off leaving and joining a more welcoming faith.

And what I said:
Or to put it more frankly: You aren’t interested in understanding the Catholic faith or considering the possible truth of its doctrines, you are just here to attack it and to encourage people to leave the Church?

You make me laugh Betterave, you truly do.
I thank you for the amusement you have provided.

On a more serious note: on what do you base the claim that I have no understanding of Catholic doctrine?
Because I don’t reach the Church-approved conclusions I am supposed to when presented with the evidence concerning Catholic history, doctrines, and practices?

It should also be noted that I am one of the few people on this board who consistently provides sources and evidence for my claims.

As for your own debating style Betterave, you are once again insulting people you are arguing with rather than the details of their arguments. If I recall correctly you ran into a bit of trouble in another thread because you were doing that.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Sure, you can look at it that way: religion is a big war. Atheism is just another party to that war though, so your comment doesn’t make sense (true, some atheists might see things that way, but only if they’re being irrational). “Do not think I have come to bring peace.” (Know who said that??)(QUOTE.)

If religion is a war atheists are conscientious objectors.

Here’s a definition of atheists to help you.

Atheists:
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

If someone wants to claim to know a lot about Catholicism and to be here for open-minded and respectful debate, there should be evidence of this in his/her posts. Don’t ya think?!

Yes, you should start providing evidence.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

That is just silly. If you’re not interested in intelligent discussion of an issue, you really shouldn’t post here. You don’t have to agree with Catholic beliefs, but blatant, stupid question-begging like this is just plain disrespectful and, I would say, is a violation of forum rules.

And here you are doing it again Betterave.

Insulting the messenger instead of making any real attempt to deal with the message.