Why Do Women Even Want To Be Priests?

[AngryAtheist8]

People recognize God-given truth when they see it

Do you have ANY idea how many different (and competing) religions there are Ed?

Each with competing versions of absolute truth, each utterly convinced that theirs is the only way. Each with followers who think that the accuracy of their truth is obvious.

There are hundreds of different Christian denominations alone.

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Uh - so what? These Protestant denominations want a variation on a theme. That is why some Protestants, Anglicans, Evangelicals and others are coming over to the Catholic Church, which is the one, holy, Catholic (Universal) and apostalic Church.

I went over a two volume set that contained all the religions out there - what’s your point?

Yes, there are other religions out there but the truth will stand even if thousands more appear. You can say Why? But that is the way it’s always been. In the Bible, we’re told of this god or that goddess but the truth is finally revealed. You are not being forced to accept any of it.

Peace,
Ed

The point is:
You act as though the Truth of your Faith is obvious, but if it was obvious most people would see it on their own (once exposed to the Truth in any significant way anyway).

That is not the case.

The Truth only seems obvious to you Ed because you are already convinced of it.

 

[edwest2]

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Uh - so what? These Protestant denominations want a variation on a theme. That is why some Protestants, Anglicans, Evangelicals and others are coming over to the Catholic Church, which is the one, holy, Catholic (Universal) and apostalic Church.

I went over a two volume set that contained all the religions out there - what’s your point?

Yes, there are other religions out there but the truth will stand even if thousands more appear. You can say Why? But that is the way it’s always been. In the Bible, we’re told of this god or that goddess but the truth is finally revealed. You are not being forced to accept any of it.

Peace,
Ed

The point is:
You act as though the Truth of your Faith is obvious, but if it was obvious most people would see it on their own (once exposed to the Truth in any significant way anyway).

That is not the case.

The Truth only seems obvious to you Ed because you are already convinced of it.

---

On the contrary, this is not just about me. I suggest you pick up a copy of Storm Warning by Billy Graham. As a Christian, he does have part of the truth and has done much to lead people to Christ. His work is commendable.

You seem to believe either in a great number of answers or that religion is simply not valid. I’ll just put it this way: If someone offered you an answer, any answer to a question regarding living your life, how would you recognize it as a true answer? An answer you’d be willing to put into practice?

Peace,
Ed

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The point is:
You act as though the Truth of your Faith is obvious, but if it was obvious most people would see it on their own (once exposed to the Truth in any significant way anyway).

That is not the case.

The Truth only seems obvious to you Ed because you are already convinced of it.

---

On the contrary, this is not just about me. I suggest you pick up a copy of Storm Warning by Billy Graham. As a Christian, he does have part of the truth and has done much to lead people to Christ. His work is commendable.

You seem to believe either in a great number of answers or that religion is simply not valid. I’ll just put it this way: If someone offered you an answer, any answer to a question regarding living your life, how would you recognize it as a true answer? An answer you’d be willing to put into practice?

Peace,
Ed

The second option.

The more I have been exposed to the various religions of the world (including Catholicism) the more I have become convinced that most if not all religious people have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[Impertinens]

I accept the Pope’s word about the fact that there are valid theological reasons why women should not be ordained - I am not entirely sure if I understand them myself, but he obviously knows better.

But on the other hand, I think that one flaw of the current framework is that it does not provide any standard way for religious women to obtain theologically or organisationally prominent positions in the hierarchy of the Church. And this, I think, is a serious loss, since women can be every bit as good as men in these matters: Saint Catherine of Siena, for example, was a brilliant theologian and was also instrumental in bringing the Papacy back to Rome.

However, even today, the vast majority of theologians are male, and no woman that I know of holds an official position in the Church whose level of responsibility may the comparable to that, let’s say, of a Cardinal.

It is not up to me to decide that, of course, I think that the Church could do with finding ways to encourage women to take more positions of responsibility and to get more involved in theological matters: they obviously have the capacity of giving important contributions in these areas, after all…

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Impertinens

*It is not up to me to decide that, of course, I think that the Church could do with finding ways to encourage women to take more positions of responsibility and to get more involved in theological matters: they obviously have the capacity of giving important contributions in these areas, after all… *

There is nothing to prevent women from taking more positions of responsibility or get more involved in theological matters in the Church. Look at St. Therese Lisieux (Doctor of Theology) or Mother Teresa (founder and administrator of a vast missionary order).

But if you are talking about women as priests and bishops (who else could rank along with the influence of a Cardinal?), we have only to look at the recent examples set by the Church of England. Not exactly inspiring.

 

[karbear]

I accept the Pope’s word about the fact that there are valid theological reasons why women should not be ordained - I am not entirely sure if I understand them myself, but he obviously knows better.

But on the other hand, I think that one flaw of the current framework is that it does not provide any standard way for religious women to obtain theologically or organisationally prominent positions in the hierarchy of the Church. And this, I think, is a serious loss, since women can be every bit as good as men in these matters: Saint Catherine of Siena, for example, was a brilliant theologian and was also instrumental in bringing the Papacy back to Rome.

l…

 

[karbear]

Look at the influence Mother Angelica has. She never set out to be a Father, but she did become a mother. Just because or roles are different, they are not less powerful.

We are a creation of God, we are beautiful.

Father is simply a masculine role, it is one that distorts our beauty. We are most beautiful in being who we were made to be.

 

[Impertinens]

I agree that there have been women who have had plenty of influence in the Church and who gave important contributions to Catholic theology.

However, as far as I can see, they tend to be the exception rather than the rule, as there are no standard career “paths” for women willing and able to do such things: a truly exceptional individual will still find a way, of course, but the fact remains that - for example - the vast majority of modern-day theologians are male. And, I think, this is a loss for the Church.

It is not up to me to give suggestions about how this could be remedied; but, in my opinion, this needs to be remedied in some way.

 

[karbear]

The women who have had the most influence did so because they were following God, not a career path. I doubt that any of them had any idea of the path they were on, they just stepped out in faith. You can bet that none of them were seeking power and influence.

Similarly, priests are seeking to serve as well. They take on the role of father, not to get on the path towards bishop, but because they are chosen by God and well suited to this role of service. They don’t know where providence will lead them.

Discernment, education, and preparation are good things, but it is providence that leads us to the role where we will have the most dignity and effectiveness.

To be relly useful to the Lord, means to trust Him and be joyful wherever providence leads us.

The thing about career paths, is that they are never as wonderful as the path of providence. Sometimes we get to see this in our life, and sometimes just trust that it is and that there is a plan.

There are uneducated women doctors of the church who left a treasure of wisdom that monastic academics never did. The christian life is about service and trust.

I bet there are people out there now, who are poor, and marginalized, who are having a bigger positive impact on the church through their prayer and witness than some bishops.

Anyway, you are beautifully made. And you don’t have to worry about your legacy and impact. I garantee that providence will lead you to the right situations that a career path never could.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Impertinens

It is not up to me to decide that, of course, I think that the Church could do with finding ways to encourage women to take more positions of responsibility and to get more involved in theological matters: they obviously have the capacity of giving important contributions in these areas, after all…

There is nothing to prevent women from taking more positions of responsibility or get more involved in theological matters in the Church. Look at St. Therese Lisieux (Doctor of Theology) or Mother Teresa (founder and administrator of a vast missionary order).

But if you are talking about women as priests and bishops (who else could rank along with the influence of a Cardinal?), we have only to look at the recent examples set by the Church of England. Not exactly inspiring.

I think the loss of the British Empire has as much to do with the Anglican Church’s current troubles as anything else. Even the Catholic Church itself was not exactly unaffected by the loss of its State partner (the Roman Empire).

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think the loss of the British Empire has as much to do with the Anglican Church’s current troubles as anything else. Even the Catholic Church itself was not exactly unaffected by the loss of its State partner (the Roman Empire).

But “Rome” wasn’t the only ‘partner’, was it? Everybody always seems to forget about the Eastern Church which was as “Catholic” as the Western Church until AD 1054 (or 250 years after the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne in the West).

 

[vsedriver]

Regardless of whether it was instituted or inspired by God the Catholic priesthood remains a human institution, managed and regulated by humans (who all happen to be male).

Here is where you have gone wrong. The priesthood is a God made institution, not a human made one. Humans only participate but the priesthood was consecrated by Jesus Christ. He ordained men to the priesthood. He could have ordained women but he chose not to. So basically what you are really saying is that Jesus was sexist and that the Church should ignore God’s institution of Holy Orders and do what pleases the people instead of what pleases God.

Christianity has fractured in an attempt to please people instead of pleasing God.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

But “Rome” wasn’t the only ‘partner’, was it? Everybody always seems to forget about the Eastern Church which was as “Catholic” as the Western Church until AD 1054 (or 250 years after the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne in the West).

They had the Byzantine Empire to prop them up.

 

[vsedriver]

Does anyone in Philosophy really want to discuss what motivates women who want to become Catholic priests?

Perhaps Philosophy is the wrong venue for this question. Sounds like it falls more in line with Psychology. That may be why you are not getting the answer you are looking for.

for myself, I can only say at one point I wished I could be a priest. Devoting my life to the service of others and to take part in the Eucharist were the main reasons. I prayed a great deal on this and was given another role to play. One I found fully rewarding and have no regrets and feel no loss at not having pursued the priesthood.

and if you need a little weight to add to my posts, I do have a minor in Philosophy and was able by special permission of the dean to take graduate courses in philosophy including the philosophy of religion.

 

[larkin31]

I am not asking about the theological/official reasons that women cannot be priests. I have already heard them and am frankly not that interested in discussing it anymore.

I am asking why some Catholic women WANT to be priests.

I would imagine, for the same reasons as the men.

 

[lynnareyno]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8 View Post
I am not asking about the theological/official reasons that women cannot be priests. I have already heard them and am frankly not that interested in discussing it anymore.

I am asking why some Catholic women WANT to be priests.

I think it is because some women see the priesthood as a position of power rather than of service.
I believe that women who want to be Catholic priests want the power not the service.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

*I think it is because some women see the priesthood as a position of power rather than of service.
I believe that women who want to be Catholic priests want the power not the service. *

Some Anglicans, at least the ones who are coming over to the Catholic Church (including 5 bishops recently) might concur with your reasoning. The women clergy in the Anglican Church seem very keyed on rooting the censure of homosexuality out of the Anglican Church. If this is because they are lesbians, then possibly their quest is for power more than for service.

 

[vsedriver]

no one has given a coherent argument in favor of the catholic view that all women are unfit to be priests, so i continue to see it as a nothing other than sexism.

women are unfit (your word, not mine I would have said unacceptable) as priests for the same reason that Beer can’t replace Wine in the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

If you can successfully argue that Beer can be used in a valid Sacrament of the Eucharist you will be able to convince the Bishops to ordain women.

 

[Geremia]

I am asking why some Catholic women WANT to be priests.

It is the same reason why some women in the liberal feminists movement want to be more like men: they think if they become equal to men they will have more freedom. The Church teaches, however, that God created the first women, Eve, from the first man, Adam (Gen. 1:27; Gen. 2:18-25). God created woman for man, but this does not mean man should abuse woman nor does it mean that woman will be less free submitting to man. This passage, read at Catholic wedding masses, beautifully sums up the Catholic Church’s attitude on the relationship between man and woman:[bibledrb]Ephesians 5:22-33[/bibledrb]

So what are the reasons and justifications for women’s ordination?

Original sin and pride are some reasons.

 

[PetersKeys]

And that kind of condescension is exactly why I would leave the Church if I were one of these women.

I am with you on this one Atheist.

I believe many women want to be priests because they feel that they could honestly serve the church for good. Now that women can be educated, many feel that they could contribute a lot to the church, and the fact that they are being told “no” because they don’t have the correct plumbing is hurtful.

I don’t think it has anything to do with being “spoiled brats” or the other hurtful things said directed at these women.

I DO think that ordination to the priesthood needs to be reserved for men, but there needs to be more and better opportunities for women (EDUCATED women) to be involved in the church, rather than pumping out babies and hoping one of them chooses to be a priest.

there are many ways to contribute to the Church without demanding to be in the priesthood priesthood. Priesthood however is an office of great authority, and thus women are not allowed. Just as Jesus only appointed men as his apostles. Just as the Levite priesthood was always men. Even ark carriers. Christ himself was a male. The female was never an authority figure. She was created as a helpmeet for Adam, and is under the authority of her husband(Gen 3:16, Ephes 5:22). The actions of wanting to grab on positions of spiritual authority, like the pulpit, shows the woman is rebellious and is not concerned with God’s precepts between man and woman. Rebellious immodest women don’t like being told ‘NO’ over something they have no control over. hence its a control and power issue for then, not a real concern with what God wants… That is the real reason behind it…

In all reality this is just a egalitarian feminist argument that is the exact same argument that they use for things like gay marriage. Throwing out the word “equality” like its a weapon for them.