Why do women have abortions?

[elts1956]

Shame I wasn’t engaging in a normative discussion where you reply would apply. I was pointing out a fact that murder is a legal concept, thus calling abortion murder in a country that allows it is deceptive.

Depends upon one’s morals wouldn’t you say? Because a law is legal doesn’t make it moral. Oh, I said that before, didn’t I.

The MORAL law is above the LEGAL law.

 

[elts1956]

I see you’ve conveniantly forgot this dimension of the definition of murder.

Then repeat please and remind me. What dimension? I thought it was a pretty liberal post if I do say so myself and I do say it.

 

[elts1956]

No its not. The label of murder implies illegality by definition.

That would only hold true if murder used to mean one concrete thing across all cultures that didn’t involve a sort of legal system. Thats a fantasy. Its always been tethered to illegality. Just check the OT, or pull out a Torah to see how even in the Ten Commandmants, it was a legal decree.

Now stop trying to botch the english language by using terms improperly.

What does the fifth commandment mean to you? You know, one of those ten rules God gave to Moses to straighten out the Hebrews? Aren’t these ten laws the basis of all moral law to this day?
You spout relativism.

 

[elts1956]

No its not. The label of murder implies illegality by definition.

That would only hold true if murder used to mean one concrete thing across all cultures that didn’t involve a sort of legal system. Thats a fantasy. Its always been tethered to illegality. Just check the OT, or pull out a Torah to see how even in the Ten Commandmants, it was a legal decree.

Now stop trying to botch the english language by using terms improperly.

Murder is the unlawful killing of human beings.

So it wouldn’t be murder in England. It might be deemed murder by the human rights branch of the U.N, but thats delving into a political debate between national and supranational governing bodies (which would be off-topic).

What would be your “term” for this killing?

 

[mapleoak]

But if I said a woman who takes her child to the lake and drowns her is a murderess, I don’t think the first instinct would be to say “depends on whether the facts of the case warrant it”. Otherwise we could never engage in a conversation about murderers.

On a similar note: If a 18 year old woman gets pregnant from an ex boyfriend and decides she does not want the baby. She goes to a doctor and has an abortion. Should she be charged with murder?

What happens when someone gets stabbed in an apparent bar fight and the victim dies? An investigation is done to gather appropiate facts regarding the matter and appropriate charges are brought according to the relevent circumstances. Obviously being charged with stealing would make little sense in this situation. A charge of murder may be deemed appropriate, or wreckless homicide, or possibly charges may not be brought at all. The facts surrounding the case must always be examined for relevance to the charges. But they are not a conviction of guilt.

 

[elts1956]

Ok.

But if I said a woman who takes her child to the lake and drowns her is a murderess, I don’t think the first instinct would be to say “depends on whether the facts of the case warrant it”. Otherwise we could never engage in a conversation about murderers.

On a similar note: If a 18 year old woman gets pregnant from an ex boyfriend and decides she does not want the baby. She goes to a doctor and has an abortion. Should she be charged with murder?

"But if I said a woman who takes her child to the lake and drowns her is a murderess, I don’t think the first instinct would be to say “depends on whether the facts of the case warrant it”. Otherwise we could never engage in a conversation about murderers.

Do you think she should be charged with murder without all the facts? ie. mental stability etc.?

"

 

[elts1956]

Ok.

But if I said a woman who takes her child to the lake and drowns her is a murderess, I don’t think the first instinct would be to say “depends on whether the facts of the case warrant it”. Otherwise we could never engage in a conversation about murderers.

On a similar note: If a 18 year old woman gets pregnant from an ex boyfriend and decides she does not want the baby. She goes to a doctor and has an abortion. Should she be charged with murder?

If it is murder, then they must serve time as murderers. Your belief that most women are coerced is pure speculation. If abortion is murder, than the woman who has an abortion is obviously guilty of murder. Certianly, her guilt is equal to the person who is performing it. How can she not then be required to serve time as a murderer?

And your belief that women are not coerced is also pure speculation.

 

[Chatty_Cathy]

Depends upon one’s morals wouldn’t you say? Because a law is legal doesn’t make it moral. Oh, I said that before, didn’t I.

The MORAL law is above the LEGAL law.

I can think of many things that were Legal at some point. Slavery, killing Christians, Concentration Camps and gas showers, Marrying your sister (mandatory for ancient kings in Egypt)

Illegal things? Spitting on the sidewalks, chewing gum in the Ft. Lauderdale airport, for women to drive a car in a bathrobe.

I think this is one of the reasons God gave us the 10 commandments. Some times things we do are really stupid. Unlimited legal abortions is one of them.

Check this out and think about it. First they came for the Communists: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came…

 

[Chatty_Cathy]

• Oh, and lets see who is the real talking parrot?

Quote:
b. Again, its a personal access to your body issue.

And when you gave yourself to somebody else in sex, you gave your body (and rights) away. You willing allowed the situation to happen that caused conception of a new human being. You allowed a new being access to your body because you set up the condition that permitted it to happen.
Same thing when someone complains about their loss to the right to freedom after being confined in jail for accidentally killing a by-stander during a bank robbery. But it was an accident ! Except you walked into a place with a gun to committ a crime and someone is still dead. He’s being denied his rights? Sure, but what about the right to life of the person he killed?

You set up the circumstances, you have play the hand you are dealt. Just because you didn’t think before hand… in some things there are no do overs. You willing gave up your rights.

Nobody said you had to rob a bank, kill a by-stander or have sex.

 

[chrisg93]

hi, I just saw this topic and haven’t read all the posts.

I do sidewalk council and I can tell you why most women have abortions. There are a few exceptions, very young girls, people emotionally or mentally ill and some special exceptions, but the vast majority fall into three catagories…

Spirtual… “if you do not put on the armor of God you will not be able to resist on the evil day”.

Societal…don’t want a change in their lifestyle, can’t afford, not ready for children, unable to care for a child and so forth.

What they actually tell me in front of the abortion clinic…I don’t want my personal parts damaged, I don’t want droopy breasts, I don’t want to buy Pampers, I don’t want this _ _ _ _ thing comming out of my body, It was a mistake and we just decieded we don’t want it.

Repentance after abortion follows a like pattern, MOST (not all) women feel nothing at all. Some show regret, but that is not repentance. Some show phony repentance, some show shame and guilt which is not repentance. Very few women truely repent after abortion.

 

[MsOKing]

Repentance after abortion follows a like pattern, MOST (not all) women feel nothing at all. Some show regret, but that is not repentance. Some show phony repentance, some show shame and guilt which is not repentance. Very few women truely repent after abortion.

What, may I ask, is your opinion of “true repentance” and how do you tell if it is genuine?

I’m curious chrisg93…please enlighten me…

hi, I just saw this topic and haven’t read all the posts

Maybe you should go back and read the testimonies of the women who have had abortions. Maybe you can gain something for your “sidewalk council”

 

[Valke2]

Out of all of the women who I have known to have abortions more than half of them were coerced. And of those I know, who weren’t coerced only one of them had no idea that it was an actual child that was being murdered.

There is no IF abortion is murder there is only YES abortion is murder.

In the Raping of Nanking, when the Japanese soldiers put guns in children’s hands and forced them to pull the triggers to kill their own parents, were those children murders? Just as in all murders not all suspects are arrested and carted off to jail. We look at all the circumstances and evaluate the situation. Most of these women have already been traumatized with the murder of their child.

I do however believe that the government should pay for counseling sessions for these women since it is the government who has let these horrible lies go on.

I think it is a gross exaggeration to imply or state that 1/2 the women who have abortions are coerced into doing it. And to say they were coerced the same way a child who is forced to pull the trigger of a gun was coerced is worse than gross exaggeration.

I don’t understand why people are ready to say abortion is murder but then bend over backwards to explain why most women who commit the murder shouldn’t be charged with murder.

 

[elts1956]

I think it is a gross exaggeration to imply or state that 1/2 the women who have abortions are coerced into doing it. And to say they were coerced the same way a child who is forced to pull the trigger of a gun was coerced is worse than gross exaggeration.

I don’t understand why people are ready to say abortion is murder but then bend over backwards to explain why most women who commit the murder shouldn’t be charged with murder.

Okay, I’m going to say it. They should be charged. BUT strict attention to extenuating circumstances should be observed. Or, if they have a lot of money, maybe they could just buy their way out, such as does happen at times in the good ole U.S.A. Can’t be perfect can we?

 

[teachermom]

The intention of this thread (I think) was to determine the reasons women have abortions in order to educate and prevent future abortions. Many reasons have been discussed and seem to cover the gambit - although some are more realistic than others (not fitting into your jeans may be a superficial or glib reason but usually not the the deep down) - most posted reasons ie. fear, lack of support, societal conditioning etc. are pretty right on. Also, the experiences of some of the posters who have had abortions are very clear as to an overwhelming sense of fear of the unknown and a true lack of trust in God’s plan for our life. Feminists For Life website has information on the research that organization has done into this very question - especially for college-age women - a high percentage of all of the women having abortions. Many, many, many women regret their abortion. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, often when they finally reaslize that they have been fed a lie. The lie that abortion “fixes” the “problem”. The lie that says " don’t worry, it will be like it never happened" Ridiculous lies as many of us have found out. But I am really disturbed by two things on this thread.

1. Allowing Isambard to hijack this thread to something different than the topic AND
   more importantly
2. when women like tonks40 and others give their testimony that no one mentions Project Rachel to them and the teaching of John Paul II (the Great!) of compassion and forgiveness and his support of Project Rachel. Got to their website - immediately! You will be so glad and feel true healing from your abortion or part in someone else’s abortion by attending their reatreat.

Please do not judge those women who have had abortions, they truly are your sisters, your mothers, your daughters, your best friend. They are suffering or will be. They need your strength, your prayers and your guidance to get them to a Project Rachel retreat. Do not be an impediment to them on their journey back to reconciliation.
Prayers for all our unborn babies and all our suffering women.

Gov. Palin is a great example of integrity in action!

 

[elts1956]

And when you gave yourself to somebody else in sex, you gave your body (and rights) away. You willing allowed the situation to happen that caused conception of a new human being. You allowed a new being access to your body because you set up the condition that permitted it to happen.
Same thing when someone complains about their loss to the right to freedom after being confined in jail for accidentally killing a by-stander during a bank robbery. But it was an accident ! Except you walked into a place with a gun to committ a crime and someone is still dead. He’s being denied his rights? Sure, but what about the right to life of the person he killed?

You set up the circumstances, you have play the hand you are dealt. Just because you didn’t think before hand… in some things there are no do overs. You willing gave up your rights.

Nobody said you had to rob a bank, kill a by-stander or have sex.

It is a source of amazement to me that those who are proponents of abortion and the woman’s right to THEIR BODY talk while building on sand . After all, when an abortion is done, is the woman aborting her own body? I don’t think soooooooo…

 

[NTOT]

And when you gave yourself to somebody else in sex, you gave your body (and rights) away. You willing allowed the situation to happen that caused conception of a new human being. You allowed a new being access to your body because you set up the condition that permitted it to happen.

One has to remember that this is not a reason which will hold up in all cases. There are too many loopholes here that will allow the pro-abortionists to claim justification for murdering the unborn, such as when the woman’s body was violated. Abortion is still wrong, and why? Because the only thing that will stand in all cases is the truth of the sanctity of human life.

 

[NTOT]

And when you gave yourself to somebody else in sex, you gave your body (and rights) away.

Just because I don’t wish take credit for something I didn’t say, lets give credit where it is due:

b. Again, its a personal access to your body issue.

 

[st_lucy]

I think it is a gross exaggeration to imply or state that 1/2 the women who have abortions are coerced into doing it. And to say they were coerced the same way a child who is forced to pull the trigger of a gun was coerced is worse than gross exaggeration.

I don’t understand why people are ready to say abortion is murder but then bend over backwards to explain why most women who commit the murder shouldn’t be charged with murder.

Most of the girls who were coerced where in high school or early college. Their parents dragged them into the abortion mill to have their child killed. I had a best friend in hs who would cry herself to sleep every night I stayed over, and I have the feeling that she did this every single night. She is now married to her hs boyfriend the one she had the child from and they have four children, but my heart breaks for her every time I think of how much pain she was in before.

This is pretty common maybe you should try volunteering at crises center and see just how many women are coerced into this horrifying “right”. Not just by parents but by husbands, boyfriends, etc. And yes I am well aware that there are those who go willingly but that does not discount the many who don’t. This is what woman’s rights brings along, forced abortions.

 

[fix]

I don’t understand why people are ready to say abortion is murder but then bend over backwards to explain why most women who commit the murder shouldn’t be charged with murder.

I think people are saying it should be treated like other crimes in the same category. Yes, murder but not every murder is treated exactly the same.

 

[Carjack1]

The intention of this thread (I think) was to determine the reasons women have abortions in order to educate and prevent future abortions. Many reasons have been discussed and seem to cover the gambit - although some are more realistic than others (not fitting into your jeans may be a superficial or glib reason but usually not the the deep down) - most posted reasons ie. fear, lack of support, societal conditioning etc. are pretty right on. Also, the experiences of some of the posters who have had abortions are very clear as to an overwhelming sense of fear of the unknown and a true lack of trust in God’s plan for our life. Feminists For Life website has information on the research that organization has done into this very question - especially for college-age women - a high percentage of all of the women having abortions. Many, many, many women regret their abortion. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, often when they finally reaslize that they have been fed a lie. The lie that abortion “fixes” the “problem”. The lie that says " don’t worry, it will be like it never happened" Ridiculous lies as many of us have found out. But I am really disturbed by two things on this thread.

1. Allowing Isambard to hijack this thread to something different than the topic AND
   more importantly
2. when women like tonks40 and others give their testimony that no one mentions Project Rachel to them and the teaching of John Paul II (the Great!) of compassion and forgiveness and his support of Project Rachel. Got to their website - immediately! You will be so glad and feel true healing from your abortion or part in someone else’s abortion by attending their reatreat.

Please do not judge those women who have had abortions, they truly are your sisters, your mothers, your daughters, your best friend. They are suffering or will be. They need your strength, your prayers and your guidance to get them to a Project Rachel retreat. Do not be an impediment to them on their journey back to reconciliation.
Prayers for all our unborn babies and all our suffering women.

Gov. Palin is a great example of integrity in action!

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Well said!. Get rid of the reasons and you will get rid of the problem