Why do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

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Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God because
  1. God the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to you personally.
  2. The Roman Catholic Church taught you that the Bible is the Word of God.
First of all, there is an ambiguity with “because.” Are you asking how I came to believe it, or why I believe it now?

I came to believe it because my family taught it to me.

I believe it now because in my 34 years of life I have found no alternative to the Catholic Faith as delivered to me (with what I would now regard as some admixture of error) by my Wesleyan-Holiness parents and grandparents, and central to that Faith is the divine inspiration of at least the 66-book canon of Scripture.

I think it astounding that you have received personal revelation with regard to every single book of the Protestant Bible. God told you personally that the book of Esther was inspired?

Edwin
 
You guys really don’t care to understand what God reveals in the Scriptures. Don’t you think the Catholic Church gave us the Bible agrument to be similar to the robot and puppet argument used in a free will debate? Also, the arguement of where the Bible teach scripture alone is ignoring the actual contents of the Bible. If you want the real debate why the Reformers left the Catholic Church, continue to join me on our bible study.
Case in point - thank you. Seems when the Holy Spirit is about to work, you move toward obstinance.
If you cannot produce Biblical evidence for the canon you believe and accept, just say so. No need to move to attacking the man, just address the issue.
For one who presents such a persona of spirituality, your actions reveal something different.
Oddly, I truly believe you can actually participate in this discussion, that you can actually address the issues as they are presented!
 
Case in point - thank you. Seems when the Holy Spirit is about to work, you move toward obstinance.
If you cannot produce Biblical evidence for the canon you believe and accept, just say so. No need to move to attacking the man, just address the issue.
For one who presents such a persona of spirituality, your actions reveal something different.
Oddly, I truly believe you can actually participate in this discussion, that you can actually address the issues as they are presented!
Get beyond it my friend. Something isn’t true simply because the catholic church claims it to be true. Just go through the Scriptures with us in our bible study.
 
Get beyond it my friend. Something isn’t true simply because the catholic church claims it to be true. Just go through the Scriptures with us in our bible study.
Do you read what you post, or are your responses simply emotional responses?
By the logic underlying your statement above, we cannot believe the canon of Scripture, as it is not stated in Scripture.
You do believe that if a matter of faith isn’t stated in the Bible, it isn’t true, right?
 
First of all, there is an ambiguity with “because.” Are you asking how I came to believe it, or why I believe it now?

I came to believe it because my family taught it to me.

I believe it now because in my 34 years of life I have found no alternative to the Catholic Faith as delivered to me (with what I would now regard as some admixture of error) by my Wesleyan-Holiness parents and grandparents, and central to that Faith is the divine inspiration of at least the 66-book canon of Scripture.

I think it astounding that you have received personal revelation with regard to every single book of the Protestant Bible. God told you personally that the book of Esther was inspired?

Edwin
I like this answer.
 
First of all, there is an ambiguity with “because.” Are you asking how I came to believe it, or why I believe it now?

I came to believe it because my family taught it to me.

I believe it now because in my 34 years of life I have found no alternative to the Catholic Faith as delivered to me (with what I would now regard as some admixture of error) by my Wesleyan-Holiness parents and grandparents, and central to that Faith is the divine inspiration of at least the 66-book canon of Scripture.

I think it astounding that you have received personal revelation with regard to every single book of the Protestant Bible. God told you personally that the book of Esther was inspired?

Edwin
I did not have the privilege to be raised Christian. Therefore, our stories are quite different. As a pagan partying surfer who first heard of the gospel of God at Calvary Chapel Costa Meas as wild teenager, you really don’t get into these issues regarding the canon of Scripture. There was a point in my life that I really believed, maybe in my later twenties, after spending several days with Mormon missionaries. God the Holy Spirit brought to my mind relevant scriptures to refute the Mormon gospel, even though I was quite ignorant of the Bible and Christian doctrine at the time. Why do you personally believe that the Bible is the Word of God, because of your church upbringing? That’s a tough way to go in regards to deep conviction. I have three teenage sons, one is a sophomore at a secular university. So, I can understand the difficulties that Christian children have in regards making their parent’s faith as their own faith. If God the Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal to evangelical children that the Bible is the Word of God, then later in life they will drift away into a secular life and a non-Christian worldview. It seems you struggle some when I read your postings in what to believe.
 
You guys really don’t care to understand what God reveals in the Scriptures. Don’t you think the Catholic Church gave us the Bible agrument to be similar to the robot and puppet argument used in a free will debate? Also, the arguement of where the Bible teach scripture alone is ignoring the actual contents of the Bible. If you want the real debate why the Reformers left the Catholic Church, continue to join me on our bible study.
If you were taught and made you believe that the bible is the Word of God, why do you want us to debate or argue on it- to satisfy your personal beliefs and interpretations? Isn’t it like you’re inviting us to tear it apart into bits and pieces like what happened when Jesus was ‘scourged’ in the pillar? Do you have respect on it?
Do you honestly know why we have the bible and why the RC Church protected it from the time it was canonized? “Holy” is the simple word for it, my friend, for the good of her children. It will do you better if you don’t fight about it like what ‘angry dogs do when given their meat!’
 
I did not have the privilege to be raised Christian. Therefore, our stories are quite different. As a pagan partying surfer who first heard of the gospel of God at Calvary Chapel Costa Meas as wild teenager, you really don’t get into these issues regarding the canon of Scripture. There was a point in my life that I really believed, maybe in my later twenties, after spending several days with Mormon missionaries. God the Holy Spirit brought to my mind relevant scriptures to refute the Mormon gospel, even though I was quite ignorant of the Bible and Christian doctrine at the time. Why do you personally believe that the Bible is the Word of God, because of your church upbringing? That’s a tough way to go in regards to deep conviction. I have three teenage sons, one is a sophomore at a secular university. So, I can understand the difficulties that Christian children have in regards making their parent’s faith as their own faith. If God the Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal to evangelical children that the Bible is the Word of God, then later in life they will drift away into a secular life and a non-Christian worldview. It seems you struggle some when I read your postings in what to believe.
Your testimony is a clear case of the Holy Spirit working in your life.

However, as Thomas Howard discovered, Evangelical is not Enough.

Your children need the solid historical foundation of the beauty and awesome wonder that is the bible.

Jesus never wrote a word, but he did start a church. This Church then proceeded, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to document and protect the Word of God.
 
Your testimony is a clear case of the Holy Spirit working in your life.

However, as Thomas Howard discovered, Evangelical is not Enough.

Your children need the solid historical foundation of the beauty and awesome wonder that is the bible.

Jesus never wrote a word, but he did start a church. This Church then proceeded, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to document and protect the Word of God.
I think testimonies of men are quite flawed to vaildate truth. For every Evangelical convert who has become Roman Catholic, I can produce ex-Priest and nun converts to biblical Christianity. Remember, the basis of the Protestant Reformation is leaving the Catholic Church by the light of Scripture alone. I find it very interesting that the defense of Roman Catholicism for many Roman Catholics is to produce testimonies of ex-Protestants. That always seems to be the basis of Catholic Forum materials that have been given to me over the years. Christianity is not based on our personal intelligence and skill to debate. We are all born spirituality dead and blind. God tends to choose the foolish things of the world (1 Cor 1) to shame the wise and to humble the pride of men. Bibilical revelation and truth received by an individual is always by the grace of God through the work of God the Holy Spirit. We can debate for the next 10 years, but we are at the mercy of the Holy Spirit for each one of us to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Human history and church history will show the depravity and brokeness of the human race. The only trustworthy light is by the Spirit illuminating truth through the Scriptures. Sacred Tradition is flawed because it is dependent upon mere men. I agree that the Spirit has protected the Word of God, but we Protestants have a different understanding of what consists of the Word of God. The Protestant Reformation is grounded in the light of Scripture over the light of the magestrium and sacred tradition. Our differences are not secondary, but are essential differences because they are gospel issues.
 
Reformed, why should I believe what you have to say about scripture instead of what the Church has to say about scripture?
 
Reformed, why should I believe what you have to say about scripture instead of what the Church has to say about scripture?
I think you have to pray and wrestle with all of the Scriptures with a humble attitude before God. If you come to the Scriptures thinking that God teaches you through the Catholic Church as compared to the Scriptures as being authorative, you will be hardened to the truth which glorifies God and humbles mankind. If Scripture is received as authorative truth, then what is written would not allow you to live out your life as a Roman Catholic Christian. It is not a battle of private interpertation because there is only one Spirit. The testimonies of biblical Christians are uniformed in the Christian Faith because of the work of the Spirit. If we focus on the person and work of Christ, and the gospel of God’s grace…we will be focusing on the essentials that divide us. We want to glorify God in our lives, and God enables us to grow progressively to glorify Him based on truth. I really believe most Roman Catholics rather trust in what the Catholic Church teaches as compared to trusting in the Spirit to guide them in all truth through the Holy Scriptures. Do you personally believe that Sacred Tradition is infallible revelation just like the Holy Scriptures?
 
I think you have to do a prayfully wresting with all of the Scriptures. If Scripture is received as authorative truth, then what is written would not allow you to live out your life as a Roman Catholic Christian. It is not a battle of private interpertation because there is only one Spirit.
Then why are there so many different Protestant denominations? Shouldn’t the Spirit be telling each one the same thing?
The testimony of biblical Christians are uniformed in the Christian Faith because of the work of the Spirit. If we focus on the person and work of Christ, and the gospel of God’s grace…we will be focusing on the essentials that divide us. We want to glorify God in our lives, and God enables us to grow progressively to glorify Him based on truth.
What is a Biblical Christian? More specifically, which denomination is right?
I really believe most Roman Catholics rather trust in what the Catholic Church teaches as compared to trusting in the Spirit to guide you in all truth through the Holy Scriptures. Do you personally believe that Sacred Tradition is infallible revelation just like the Holy Scriptures?
Here’s what you don’t get, Reformed. It’s not “either/or,” as in we **either **believe in the Church **or **believe in the Holy Spirit. It’s both/and. I believe **both **in the Church **and **in the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Church.

And yes, I do believe in Sacred Tradition, as the Bible tells us to.
 
Then why are there so many different Protestant denominations? Shouldn’t the Spirit be telling each one the same thing?

What is a Biblical Christian? More specifically, which denomination is right?

Here’s what you don’t get, Reformed. It’s not “either/or,” as in we **either **believe in the Church **or **believe in the Holy Spirit. It’s both/and. I believe **both **in the Church **and **in the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Church.

And yes, I do believe in Sacred Tradition, as the Bible tells us to.
Do you at least agree that the split that occured at the Protestant Reformation is based on Scripture alone or what the Catholic Church teaches as being authorative? The reason why you see so many denominations is the same central issue that plagues Roman Catholicism. Many of the church splits you see today are caused by churches leaving Scripture as being authorative for the Christian Faith and christian life. The Protestant Churches that continue to have a very high view of the Scriptures are very uniformed in the Christian Faith. Are you familar with the “Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals” consisting of many different denominations? There is a body of faith proclaimed, embraced, and defended by the various evangelical denominations. It is the same body of faith embraced by the Protestant Reformers and can be summarized in the 5 solas of the Reformation.

alliancenet.org/

If a Christian believes that Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture consist of the Word of God, then that person will be Roman Catholic. If a Christian believes that the Holy Scirptures consists of the Word of God, then that person cannot be Roman Catholic, because the contents of the Scriptures alone does not support the Roman Catholic Faith. The Roman Catholic Faith is dependent on Sacred Tradition and apostolic succession to support what she teaches. Sacred Tradition will (IMO) always dim the light of Scripture. In really comes down to having either a very high view of Scripture or not. It may appear that you both, Sacred tradition and Scripture. But that is the illusion since Sacred tradition always trumps Scripture because Sacred Tradition tells you what to believe as truth. I have heard on tape and read testimonies of ex-protestants turned Roman Catholic. They all have the common theme of rejecting the sufficiency of Scripture and replaced it with a different source of authority (magestrium). Remember, our personal intelligence, background and personal testimonies are flawed when trying to determine the truth.
 
Actually, the split in the Reformation did not start with Scripture alone.

The earliest instances were based on something very different.

Martin Luther did not (at first) have any problems with Scripture. (In fact to his dying day he maintained the Perpetual Virginity and the Sinlessness of Mary–neither of which is ‘Scripturally’ explicit but are implicit in Scripture and affirmed by Sacred Tradition–which Martin Luther upheld even then.)

Henry VIII had no problem with Scripture either. He had a problem, as did Luther, with papal authority. He also benefitted enormously when he sacked the monasteries and gave their lands to his noblemen, who ipso facto then embraced the ‘new religion’ which had given them temporal wealth.

Henry not only kept the Scripture (and the books) of the Catholic bible, he kept all the ‘popish’ practices as well, all the beautiful traditions, the incense, etc. etc.

It was the second wave of reformers who (seeing that many people were still Catholic in faith) tried to turn protestantism into being ‘about freedom to read Scripture’ (something which was a non issue but sounded ‘noble’. Catholics have always read (and heard) Scripture, even when most of them were illiterate.

People who scream, KJV bible brought the Word to the world are unaware that the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible was actually brought out a couple of years BEFORE the KJV. Why, I wonder, if the Catholics were not ‘reading the Bible’ as much as the Protestants supposedly were?

No, the reformation was not about ‘Scripture’. It was about pride, wealth, power, and greed. All those led to a need for ‘justification’ and so the false charges implicit in claiming that Protestants were all about ‘bringing Scripture to the world’ became the byword. And since even in the U.S. (which is heavily Protestant) the majority of the history texts and books etc. are written from the Protestant point of view, this absurd and disingenuous ‘history’ is still given as truth. . .which it emphatically is NOT.
 
Here is the danger of elevating ex-protestant pastors turning Roman Catholics as a source of truth. The testimony of Christian men like Scott Hahn is not valid in discerning truth because how God works…

Luke 10:21

Jesus Rejoices in the Father’s Will

In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
 
Actually, the split in the Reformation did not start with Scripture alone.

The earliest instances were based on something very different.

Martin Luther did not (at first) have any problems with Scripture. (In fact to his dying day he maintained the Perpetual Virginity and the Sinlessness of Mary–neither of which is ‘Scripturally’ explicit but are implicit in Scripture and affirmed by Sacred Tradition–which Martin Luther upheld even then.)

Henry VIII had no problem with Scripture either. He had a problem, as did Luther, with papal authority. He also benefitted enormously when he sacked the monasteries and gave their lands to his noblemen, who ipso facto then embraced the ‘new religion’ which had given them temporal wealth.

Henry not only kept the Scripture (and the books) of the Catholic bible, he kept all the ‘popish’ practices as well, all the beautiful traditions, the incense, etc. etc.

It was the second wave of reformers who (seeing that many people were still Catholic in faith) tried to turn protestantism into being ‘about freedom to read Scripture’ (something which was a non issue but sounded ‘noble’. Catholics have always read (and heard) Scripture, even when most of them were illiterate.

People who scream, KJV bible brought the Word to the world are unaware that the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible was actually brought out a couple of years BEFORE the KJV. Why, I wonder, if the Catholics were not ‘reading the Bible’ as much as the Protestants supposedly were?

No, the reformation was not about ‘Scripture’. It was about pride, wealth, power, and greed. All those led to a need for ‘justification’ and so the false charges implicit in claiming that Protestants were all about ‘bringing Scripture to the world’ became the byword. And since even in the U.S. (which is heavily Protestant) the majority of the history texts and books etc. are written from the Protestant point of view, this absurd and disingenuous ‘history’ is still given as truth. . .which it emphatically is NOT.
“As soon as a coin in the coffer rings / the soul from purgatory springs.”

Do you see how ridiculous church history can be to determine truth? I can give you church history from a Protestant perspective. And you can give me church history from a Roman Catholic perspective. Both are mutually exclusive and nullify each other. In finding and determining truth together, we have to find a common source as our measuring rod of truth. I really notice that Roman Catholics are more into side issues as compared to the actual discussions about the contents of the Bible. The threads that are not about the actual contents of Scripture are flooded with participants. But once a thread is started about studying the Scriptures together as fellow Christians, seeking humbly before God to learn from the Scriptures… the participation on those threads are very small. I think Roman Catholics as a whole are very scared and frighten to read the Scriptures for themselves…maybe afraid what they might find in God’s Holy Scriptures?

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God [2] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account. - Hebrews

Church history cannot be infallible truth:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Tetzel

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Scripture must remain the authorative light to determine truth. For we all have our own source of church history.
 
Sorry, I don’t accept Wikipedia articles as primary sources for argument. By definition, ‘anybody’ can edit Wikipedia.

Further, your attempt to present Catholic and Protestant ‘views’ of history is flawed by its purpose of making them appear to be ‘opinion’ or ‘perspective’ only, or to be ‘equivalent’ and equally acceptable. That is not correct.

Where there is outright contradiction when it comes to the Faith, one ‘view’ (in your terminology) is absolutely true. The other must be false. There is no room for 'This is YOUR view and this is MINE and of course we are both working from interpretation alone". There is truth and there is falsehood --no relativity allowed.

Scripture is not self-interpreting. Neither does Scripture announce itself as the pillar and foundation of truth. Would you care to tell me what Scripture says IS that pillar and foundation of truth?
 
I find it very interesting that Reformed uses the term “Biblical Christianity” to refer to a form of Christianity that history shows did not exist prior to the 16th century, and even then is was not in the same form it is today.

When was the last book of the Bible written?
 
Sorry, I don’t accept Wikipedia articles as primary sources for argument. By definition, ‘anybody’ can edit Wikipedia.

Further, your attempt to present Catholic and Protestant ‘views’ of history is flawed by its purpose of making them appear to be ‘opinion’ or ‘perspective’ only, or to be ‘equivalent’ and equally acceptable. That is not correct.

Where there is outright contradiction when it comes to the Faith, one ‘view’ (in your terminology) is absolutely true. The other must be false. There is no room for 'This is YOUR view and this is MINE and of course we are both working from interpretation alone". There is truth and there is falsehood --no relativity allowed.

Scripture is not self-interpreting. Neither does Scripture announce itself as the pillar and foundation of truth. Would you care to tell me what Scripture says IS that pillar and foundation of truth?
That’s why you are Roman Catholic and I am not. I do not believe in history exegesis, nor do I believe in newspaper exegesis. Please join us in a Bible Study.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=273731&page=10
 
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