Why do you believe what you believe?

[Judas_Thaddeus]

…I’m not myself Native American, by the way.

My bad, sorry, you gave me a different
impression or perhaps I missed some-
thing in the reading.

From reading your comments, you still make the judgement call that I quit following Christ, but you’re not following what I’m saying. Christ led me to Baha’u’llah, and after all that I had been through and seen of the world, the pieces of the jig-saw puzzle which were scattered on the ground all started coming together, and I was seeing a whole image of human history, social and religious, making complete sense from a new perspective.

I would better suggest that it’s the Devil, sorry. The Christ who is the Creator
of All Things, who was before all things, who was present with and one with
the Father and the Holy Spirit, who died on a cross for our salvation would
simply have NOT lead you to Baha’u’llah.
Something I’m not sure you are aware of (perhaps you are, but): Hinduism/Buddhism
and Judaism/Christianity/even-Islam are two entirely different and irreconcilable world-
views. In H/B, All is Eternal and only Spirit is real. In J/C/I, only Some is Eternal, the
only thing Eternal being God, and both spiritual and material exist. The Baha’i Faith
contends that both worldviews are correct, but again they are irreconcilable.

Only a few accepted Him as such in the beginning, you know. Now we have had 2000 years to examine the great spiritual growth of the tree of Christianity, as well as that of Moses, and Muhammad, for that matter. The Tree of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation has not reached full bloom, for it is only 150 years old, yet it encompasses the world, even as Christ’s Message did so over time.

First, the Baha’i Faith has the convenience of the Modern Age to thank for
it’s growth, just as Mormonism does, just as the Jehovah’s Witness does.
Christianity has grown quite a bit. Judaism too, yes, but Judaism today is
so not like Judaism was in ancient times, as the modern version was es–
tablished in answer against Christianity. Islam and Muhammad are not of
God, believe it or not, and neither is Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i Faith. We
have a Bible inspired by God to test these things.

That you cannot see that this Tree is from God is not because it is not so, but from own your perspective. My own perspective, is formed from over 30 years of tasting its fruit, and coming from another 30 years of a Christian perspective prior to that. It is not for me to tell you what this fruit tastes like. You have your own tongue. All I can say is that it is not bitter fruit, nor is it inconsistent with the teachings of Abraham, Moses, and Christ.

You keep leaving out Krishna, the Buddha, Zoroaster, (Muhammad has come up
a few times), but you keep leaving them out. Why? They are the great disqualif–
iers of the Baha’i Faith.

How does one who still fully believes in Christ tell another Christian something like this? How did Paul tell his fellow Jews who Jesus was? Its the same challenge. The same rejection occurs, similar arguments arise: “Because, because, because, etc…” and thats all part of the process. It is a normal occurrence throughout human history whenever a Prophet of God appears. Every single one of them has been rejected, scorned, often killed, and their followers are all put through the same tests, face the same denials and accusations as you are presenting here. It seems to be how it all works, and its working as it should be, testing and separating, sifting and purifying…
.

I’m not quite understanding. “How does one who still fully believes in Christ tell another Christian something like this?” Are you saying that you’re a Christian? There are a few
fundamental traits that differentiate a Christian and everyone else. If any of the fundam-
ental traits are missing, whatever it’s fundamental to, ain’t there. Jesus came to bring a
Gospel, Good News, and the Apostles preached it, we have their words, and if God had
at all any support for the Christian Faith, he would have supported it through the centur-
ies, without having some other religion pop up and say it’s been wrong all this time.

Oh and you wanna talk about men called prophets who were rejected, scorned,
and often killed? Can you then honestly tell me that Joseph Smith was a True
Prophet? (Why not, you believe Baha’u’llah). The Devil (uh-oh he’s back) does
a great job when it comes to imitation. “Oh you see that guy talking about God
and being a prophet? He’s getting persecuted and so are his followers, he must
be a true messenger of God!’” “Contradicts the Bible? Fo-get about it, we have
a new prophet!” I can assure you that it was not Christ Jesus who lead you to
Baha’u’llah, for Baha’u’llah has a different Gospel contrary from the true Gospel.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I first came to believe when I read about the sacrifice of Christ, strangely enough reading the catholic catechism. It was out of the pure love I saw in Christ and what I believe and would like to consider the Holy spirit. I continue to believe because God has demonstrated to me he is true via his ressurection and him being the fulfillment of all hope and expectation.

 

[daler]

My bad, sorry, you gave me a different
impression or perhaps I missed some-
thing in the reading.

I would better suggest that it’s the Devil, sorry. The Christ who is the Creator
of All Things, who was before all things, who was present with and one with
the Father and the Holy Spirit, who died on a cross for our salvation would
simply have NOT lead you to Baha’u’llah.
Something I’m not sure you are aware of (perhaps you are, but): Hinduism/Buddhism
and Judaism/Christianity/even-Islam are two entirely different and irreconcilable world-
views. In H/B, All is Eternal and only Spirit is real. In J/C/I, only Some is Eternal, the
only thing Eternal being God, and both spiritual and material exist. The Baha’i Faith
contends that both worldviews are correct, but again they are irreconcilable.

First, the Baha’i Faith has the convenience of the Modern Age to thank for
it’s growth, just as Mormonism does, just as the Jehovah’s Witness does.
Christianity has grown quite a bit. Judaism too, yes, but Judaism today is
so not like Judaism was in ancient times, as the modern version was es–
tablished in answer against Christianity. Islam and Muhammad are not of
God, believe it or not, and neither is Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i Faith. We
have a Bible inspired by God to test these things.

You keep leaving out Krishna, the Buddha, Zoroaster, (Muhammad has come up
a few times), but you keep leaving them out. Why? They are the great disqualif–
iers of the Baha’i Faith.

I’m not quite understanding. “How does one who still fully believes in Christ tell another Christian something like this?” Are you saying that you’re a Christian? There are a few
fundamental traits that differentiate a Christian and everyone else. If any of the fundam-
ental traits are missing, whatever it’s fundamental to, ain’t there. Jesus came to bring a
Gospel, Good News, and the Apostles preached it, we have their words, and if God had
at all any support for the Christian Faith, he would have supported it through the centur-
ies, without having some other religion pop up and say it’s been wrong all this time.

Oh and you wanna talk about men called prophets who were rejected, scorned,
and often killed? Can you then honestly tell me that Joseph Smith was a True
Prophet? (Why not, you believe Baha’u’llah). The Devil (uh-oh he’s back) does
a great job when it comes to imitation. “Oh you see that guy talking about God
and being a prophet? He’s getting persecuted and so are his followers, he must
be a true messenger of God!’” “Contradicts the Bible? Fo-get about it, we have
a new prophet!” I can assure you that it was not Christ Jesus who lead you to
Baha’u’llah, for Baha’u’llah has a different Gospel contrary from the true Gospel.

Judas,
. The same argument was used against Jesus being the devil. This is not a good technique to demonstrate a difference of opinion theologically. It doesn’t work, and there is no evidence to support it. There is no “bad fruit” coming from this Tree of Divine Revelation.

. To go back to mentioning Joseph Smith is like picking some local Joe Smith from Biblical times to compare Jesus to as some kind of argument a desperate Pharisee might make when confronted with the clear evidences which he can only dodge and which becomes a game which cannot be taken seriously.

. As you have never studied the substantial evidence from prophetic sources, you cannot speak to that, but I have, and they present an unanswerable argument from any position. Yet such things are secondary to the Word of God, whether uttered by in the day of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha’u’llah. There is something sobering and challenging to the mind, to read the verses of God, and to the heart and soul.

. “Out of His Mouth shall proceed a two-edged sword” What on earth do you suppose this to mean, other than that by His Word He shall separate believer from non-believer, father from son.

. “His eyes are a blazing fire”. Is this honestly how you perceive the Lord to appear in your literal interpretation? Or does it suggest that He burns away every veil of human limitation, dogma, and false doctrine.

. “Brass-like were His feet” Again, He shall be so steadfast in the Cause of God that no power on earth shall shake Him.

. If you want to speak with knowledge, dear sir, examine the evidence. If I may suggest something, when you have time, and if you wish to pursue dialogue with credit to understanding what it is that you wish to deny, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts contains His letters to the Kings, Whom He withstood:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SLH/

. Peace and blessings upon you

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Judas,
. The same argument was used against Jesus being the devil. This is not a good technique to demonstrate a difference of opinion theologically. It doesn’t work, and there is no evidence to support it. There is no “bad fruit” coming from this Tree of Divine Revelation.

But the difference is this: We can verify through Scripture that Jesus is the Christ.
We begin with the Old Testament, which doesn’t claim succession from Krishna,
the Buddha. or the like, prophet after prophet all the way up to John the Baptist,
then comes Jesus. Jesus comes to fulfill what the prophets had told about him.
Now today, we can look back, test Jesus, and verify Jesus. Such can’t be done
for Muhammad, the Bab, or even Baha’u’llah.

To go back to mentioning Joseph Smith is like picking some local Joe Smith from Biblical times to compare Jesus to as some kind of argument a desperate Pharisee might make when confronted with the clear evidences which he can only dodge and which becomes a game which cannot be taken seriously.

But the difference is that Jesus is supported
by the Scriptures, which Joseph Smith is not,
neither is Baha’u’llah.

As you have never studied the substantial evidence from prophetic sources, you cannot speak to that, but I have, and they present an unanswerable argument from any position. Yet such things are secondary to the Word of God, whether uttered by in the day of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha’u’llah. There is something sobering and challenging to the mind, to read the verses of God, and to the heart and soul.

I’m actually majoring in religious studies (already have my Associates Degree),
You say that “such things are secondary to the Word of God, whether uttered
by in the day of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, or Baha’u’llah,” but the Word of
God uttered by by Moses and Jesus (who is the Word, btw) is contrary to
the Word of God uttered by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah.

“Out of His Mouth shall proceed a two-edged sword” What on earth do you suppose this to mean, other than that by His Word He shall separate believer from non-believer, father from son.

I found some commentary on that, assum-
ing you’re talking about Revelation 19:15:
http://m.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-19/revelation-19-15.html

“His eyes are a blazing fire”. Is this honestly how you perceive the Lord to appear in your literal interpretation? Or does it suggest that He burns away every veil of human limitation, dogma, and false doctrine.

Okay, now I know you’re focusing on Revelation. “Literal Interpretation”?! MINE?!
I don’t go for literal interpretation in Revelation! That’s not how the Book is to be
read, I know that. More commentary on that verse (Rev 19:12):
http://m.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-19/revelation-19-12.html

“Brass-like were His feet” Again, He shall be so steadfast in the Cause of God that no power on earth shall shake Him.

Revelation 1:15, huh? For the sake of space again in
this reply, I’ll post a link to the commentary on 1:15:
http://m.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-1/revelation-1-15.html

You keep bringing Revelation up as though it isn’t talking about the end of days, which
is the among the main themes of Revelation, how Christ will return, defeat the Beast,
the Devil, and all who have rejected him, cleanse the Earth, bring all things to their
resolution, and restore creation back to its original Good. It is not applicable to
the Baha’i Faith in any way.

 

[Servant19]

… but the Word of
God uttered by by Moses and Jesus (who is the Word, btw) is contrary to
the Word of God uttered by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah.

Can you point out which of the Words of Moses and Jesus are contrary to the Words of Baha’u’llah please?

You keep bringing Revelation up as though it isn’t talking about the end of days, which
is the among the main themes of Revelation, how Christ will return, defeat the Beast,
the Devil, and all who have rejected him, cleanse the Earth, bring all things to their
resolution, and restore creation back to its original Good. It is not applicable to
the Baha’i Faith in any way.

At what point will the Christian world say, “Ok Jesus is not coming back the way we expected. What do we do now?”

For centuries (actually 1900+ years) the return of Jesus has been anticipated, and human contrived attempt after attempt has been tried to solve the problems of the world, to “cleanse the Earth”, to “bring all things to their resolution”, and “restore creation back to its original good”

For nearly 200 of those 1900+ years a resolution has been given to mankind by God, a handbook if you like, and all people can do is reject it, without even giving it a chance. For what? For the fact that they are expecting something else contrived of their own man-made interpretations and imaginations, clinging to it as if “their” understanding is more true than “Gods” understanding, as if “their” ways are more valid than “Gods” ways…

Moses knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Jesus knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Baha’u’llah knew the ways of God and again He is being rejected.

When will man finally say “enough!”
Its time to TEST this Message by putting it into acton and SEEING what fruits it brings.

Weren’t you advised to “test the spirits”?
Why would you be asked to “test the spirits” if Jesus was the very last “Spirit”?

.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Can you point out which of the Words of Moses and Jesus are contrary to the Words of Baha’u’llah please?

At what point will the Christian world say, “Ok Jesus is not coming back the way we expected. What do we do now?”

For centuries (actually 1900+ years) the return of Jesus has been anticipated, and human contrived attempt after attempt has been tried to solve the problems of the world, to “cleanse the Earth”, to “bring all things to their resolution”, and “restore creation back to its original good”

For nearly 200 of those 1900+ years a resolution has been given to mankind by God, a handbook if you like, and all people can do is reject it, without even giving it a chance. For what? For the fact that they are expecting something else contrived of their own man-made interpretations and imaginations, clinging to it as if “their” understanding is more true than “Gods” understanding, as if “their” ways are more valid than “Gods” ways…

Moses knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Jesus knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Baha’u’llah knew the ways of God and again He is being rejected.

When will man finally say “enough!”
Its time to TEST this Message by putting it into acton and SEEING what fruits it brings.

Relativism constantly comes to mind to me, no disrespect intended, But here; “Can you point out which of the Words of Moses and Jesus are contrary to the Words of Baha’u’llah please?”

I was showing you on the other thread how much becomes relative by using Baha’u’llah writing by my further elaborating on the Christological theology.

When you say; "At what point will the Christian world say, “Ok Jesus is not coming back the way we expected. What do we do now?”

You have to elaborate on what you mean by coming back. He never left, so you mean when he is going complete His plan? To which He himself stated no one but He knows the time? Of course, God alone would first have access to this information in order thus time.

When you say;

“For centuries (actually 1900+ years) the return of Jesus has been anticipated, and human contrived attempt after attempt has been tried to solve the problems of the world, to “cleanse the Earth”, to “bring all things to their resolution”, and “restore creation back to its original good””

Yet you don’t argue the morality point I bought up in regards to Jesus Christ on the other thread. I take it you conceded their is no “other” to compare Jesus Christ to and you concede He lived and died on the Cross. Which only confirms my point of the “real presence” He is here.

He never left to return. So to this; “restore creation back to its original good”"

Would you like me to use Baha’l in relative terms here to compare the concept of evil? Frankly it dawns on me Baha’l seems to hint of total depravity. But hey, I won’t belabor the point I think it resolves in the fact of who has the authority to interpret sacred scripture. I concede this point to the CC.

As to the idea that Christ ever left, I would argue the real presence of Jesus Christ in his Church and His communion of Saints to start. “Real Presence”. Which through He and His Saints will continue to guide “His” Church, and though whatever concocted positions that arrive, thus the word, prevail in regards to Church.

In other words I don’t know how anyone expected Jesus to be coming back but as through Scripture/Tradition clearly indicates and is Himself body and blood through the tabernacles around the world, and confirmed by His Saints throughout 2000 years… present.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Can you point out which of the Words of Moses and Jesus are contrary to the Words of Baha’u’llah please?

Well first we have Moses bringing us the Torah, Genesis being
the first book, which tells us something God said to Abraham:He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest,
and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a hol-
ocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee.

• (Genesis 22:2)
  This is attested to also in the New Testament, through the
  words of Paul, who was instructed by Jesus. Paul writes to us:By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered Isaac: and he that had
  received the promises, offered up his only begotten son;
• (Hebrew 11:17)
  Words of Baha’u’llah : “That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-
  -Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God
  commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His stead-
  fastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him
  may be demonstrated unto men…"
• (Bahá’u’lláh: “Gleanings”, pp.75-76)
  Oh, but that’s okay, because the Baha’i teach:“As to the question raised by…in connection with Bahá’u’lláh’s statement in the ‘Gleanings’ concerning the sacrifice of Ishmael; although this statement does not agree with that made in the Bible, Genesis 22:9, the friends should unhesitatingly, and for reasons that are only too obvious, give precedence to the saying of Bahá’u’lláh, which, it should be pointed out, is fully corroborated by the Qur’an which book is far more authentic than the Bible, including both the New and Old Testaments. The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur’an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá’u’lláh.”
  
  (From a letter dated July 28, 1936 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada)

At what point will the Christian world say, “Ok Jesus is not coming back the way we expected. What do we do now?”

For centuries (actually 1900+ years) the return of Jesus has been anticipated, and human contrived attempt after attempt has been tried to solve the problems of the world, to “cleanse the Earth”, to “bring all things to their resolution”, and “restore creation back to its original good”

Okay, so you’re bored of waiting for the return of Jesus, who said that he would come
back the same way he left, i.e. be seen coming from the clouds of Heaven with holes
in his hands and feet? “Okay, tired of waiting, forget Christianity,” is what I’m hearing
from you. The Jews waited in anticipation for the Messiah for a long time too, and he
came, died, rose, and ascended into Heaven. We are told that the Messiah will re-
turn, so we will wait just as the Jews of old did. Sorry you’re so impatient.

Moses knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Jesus knew the ways of God, and got rejected
Baha’u’llah knew the ways of God and again He is being rejected.

When will man finally say “enough!”
Its time to TEST this Message by putting it into acton and SEEING what fruits it brings.

Weren’t you advised to “test the spirits”?
Why would you be asked to “test the spirits” if Jesus was the very last “Spirit”?
.

"Baha’u’llah says “God”, people pick on him, the people who follow him
are picked on, HE MUST BE A PROPHET!"is the logic you’re giving me
there. And to answer your question on the “testing spirits,” it might help
if we look at the ENTIRE verse, not just isolate that little phrase the way
you didearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (test)* the spirits *if
they be of God: because many false prophets
are gone out into the world.

• (1 John 4:1)
  
  (Shame on you for not
  providing the appropri-
  ate full context.) :tsktsk:
  ​

Jesus is not the last spirit in this context. There will be many spirits and self-professed
prophets after Jesus, coming to preach another Gospel, contrary to the True Gospel of
Jesus Christ, so John warns of this maneuver of the Devil, and commands us to test all
spirits, prophets, writings, for there’ll be many who are not of God, such as Baha’u’llah.

​

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Actually, bringing the subject back a moment (“Why do you believe what you believe?”),
Servent19 asked me about how I was advised to “test the spirits” and then why I would
if Jesus is “the last spirit” (whatever that means), discussion went as so:

Weren’t you advised to “test the spirits”?
Why would you be asked to “test the spirits” if Jesus was the very last “Spirit”?.

To which I responded:

…And to answer your question on the “testing spirits,” it might help
if we look at the ENTIRE verse, not just isolate that little phrase the way
you didearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (test)* the spirits *if
they be of God: because many false prophets
are gone out into the world.

• (1 John 4:1)
  
  (Shame on you for not
  providing the appropri-
  ate full context.) :tsktsk:
  ​

Jesus is not the last spirit in this context. There will be many spirits and self-professed
prophets after Jesus, coming to preach another Gospel, contrary to the True Gospel of
Jesus Christ, so John warns of this maneuver of the Devil, and commands us to test all
spirits, prophets, writings, for there’ll be many who are not of God, such as Baha’u’llah.

​

So we are to test ALL THINGS, and that’s another reason for why I
believe what I believe and why I do not believe what I do not believe.

 

[Servant19]

Thank you Judas,

You stated, there will be NO OTHER after Jesus Christ.

If that was the case, it would say in 1 John:

“Believe not any spirit, for they are ALL false prophets”

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Thank you Judas,
You stated, there will be NO OTHER after Jesus Christ.
If that was the case, it would say in 1 John:
“Believe not any spirit, for they are ALL false prophets”

Of course, John didn’t say “Believe not any spirit,” but "“Believe not every spirit,”
such as the Maid of Heaven seen by Baha’u’llah, IF he did anyway. I could believe
that Bahá’u’lláh might have seen something, maybe even something real, however
it cannot be of God.

Catholics will believe in spirits who come professing the same Gospel as given by
the Apostles. We’ll believe in Marian apparitions that mean to bring us sinners clo-
ser to her son Jesus Christ. We WON’T believe an apparition that would tell us to
worship Mary as a goddess, as that would be contrary to Scripture.

We will even believe in private revelations, but none that would tell us that Krishna,
Buddha, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, etc. were all sent by the
same God, which brings us back to what ***you ***were talking about: Testing the Spirits.

 

[Servant19]

You believe in Mr. ABC who tells you that he had a vision that Jesus told me, to love the Church and everything it’s done throughout history is forgiven.

Yet you will not believe in the real Prophets?

On what basis have you “tested” all these Prophets?

This is not about visions and apparitions, it’s about PROPHETS…

 

[Servant19]

We need to first acknowledge that this is CLEARLY saying that there WILL be true Prophets after Jesus…

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

You believe in Mr. ABC WHI TELLS YOU THAT HE HAD A VISION AND THIS IS WHAT Jesus told me, to love the Church and everything it’s done throughout history is forgiven.

??????
I assume you’re talking about some of the bad things that have
gone on in the history of Christianity? No one is perfect, many
people make all kinds of mistakes, but that doesn’t disqualify
what Truth it has stood for. The Church has made many sec-
ular mistakes, but her doctrines have never been untrue.

And who is this “Mr. ABC”?

Yet you will not believe in the real Prophets?

Oh I will believe the real Prophets,
but are we talking about the same
prophets?

On what basis have you “tested” all these Prophets?

Well we’re told to “test” the prophets, spirits, etc, so there must be an obvious means to
test a so-called prophet. For Christians, it’s the Bible. As we discussed before, the Bible
says that God told Abraham to offer up his son ISAAC; however, Muhammad claims that
it was ISHMAEL, Abraham’s illegitimate son of Hagar. From there, Baha’u’llah claimed it
was Ishmael also, admitting that the Bible disagreed. He fails that test, then the Baha’i
pull a “Joseph Smith” in saying that the Bible is not reliable, but instead that it “should
be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá’u’lláh.”

Thus brings us back to a familiar phrase: The voice of one, saying: Cry. And I said: What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the glory thereof as the flower of the held.

The grass is withered, and the dower is fallen, because the spirit of the Lord hath blown upon it. Indeed the people is grass:
​

The grass is withered, and the flower is fallen:

But the word of our God endureth forever.
​

– (Isaiah 40:6-8)

 

[Servant19]

??????
I assume you’re talking about some of the bad things that have
gone on in the history of Christianity? No one is perfect, many
people make all kinds of mistakes, but that doesn’t disqualify
what Truth it has stood for. The Church has made many sec-
ular mistakes, but her doctrines have never been untrue.

And who is this “Mr. ABC”?

Oh I will believe the real Prophets,
but are we talking about the same
prophets?

Well we’re told to “test” the prophets, spirits, etc, so there must be an obvious means to
test a so-called prophet. For Christians, it’s the Bible. As we discussed before, the Bible
says that God told Abraham to offer up his son ISAAC; however, Muhammad claims that
it was ISHMAEL, Abraham’s illegitimate son of Hagar. From there, Baha’u’llah claimed it
was Ishmael also, admitting that the Bible disagreed. He fails that test, then the Baha’i
pull a “Joseph Smith” in saying that the Bible is not reliable, but instead that it “should
be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá’u’lláh.”

Thus brings us back to a familiar phrase: The voice of one, saying: Cry. And I said: What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the glory thereof as the flower of the held.

The grass is withered, and the dower is fallen, because the spirit of the Lord hath blown upon it. Indeed the people is grass:
​

The grass is withered, and the flower is fallen:

But the word of our God endureth forever.
​

– (Isaiah 40:6-8)

No my friend, this is not talking about the Old Testament Prophets which Christianity and Judaism have ALREADY verified as being true.

This is talking about Prophets AFTER Jesus coming.

If you expect the Prophet to just regurgitate the Bible for you so it’s nice and easy, then what is there to test??? And what purpose does the Prophet serve??

Why would God send a Prophet just to say “Hey guys and gals, I have nothing to say, just keep reading the Bible!”

Pretty rejectionable right?

So HOW have you tested the Prophets AFTER Jesus, which this is clearly talking about?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

We need to first acknowledge that this is CLEARLY saying that there WILL be true Prophets after Jesus…

Okay, fine, I’ll let you have that one I guess, but there is still nothing
in there that confirms Baha’u’llah as a true Prophet, nothing at all.

BUT, what do the Scriptures say(?): . . . In these last days (God) has spoken to us by his Son ,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also
he made the worlds;

• (Hebrews 1:2)

(I brought that to you attention before, haven’t I?)

 

[Servant19]

Okay, fine, I’ll let you have that one I guess, but there is still nothing
in there that confirms Baha’u’llah as a true Prophet, nothing at all.

BUT, what do the Scriptures say(?): . . . In these last days (God) has spoken to us by his Son ,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also
he made the worlds;

• (Hebrews 1:2)

(I brought that to you attention before, haven’t I?)

As I have said before too, “last days” does not refer to LITERALLY the end of the world. It refers to the times of Gods latest Prophet/Messenger. Obviously not the literal end of the world because during the last days, Jesus has spoken to us, and the earth was not destroyed. So obviously Jesus also talked about a FUTURE “last days” when another Messenger will “have spoken to us”

Now there have only been 3 independent Prophets/Mesengers since Jesus’ coming that have withstood the test of time - Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah…

Go give them all a good thorough testing, and by that I mean OBJECTIVELY, not with “this is never gonna be true”-coloured glasses on.

It’s your duty to God to leave no stone unturned, joining them in their activities (this DOES NOT MEAN YOU BECOME A BAHAI) , just like daler has if you read his posts (his experiences hasn’t harmed him) and then the decision is between you and God

That’s what the Bible expects of you…

.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

No my friend, this is not talking about the Old Testament Prophets which Christianity and Judaism have ALREADY verified as being true.
This is talking about Prophets AFTER Jesus coming.
If you expect the Prophet to just regurgitate the Bible for you so it’s nice and easy, then what is there to test??? And what purpose does the Prophet serve??
Why would God send a Prophet just to say “Hey guys and gals, I have nothing to say, just keep reading the Bible!”
Pretty rejectionable right?
So HOW have you tested the Prophets AFTER Jesus, which this is clearly talking about?

AH, I see. Well I believe I brought up Hebrews 1:2 before, perhaps you didn’t
see it, maybe you have already, but it shows that there wouldn’t be any need
for a new prophet, as we live in the age of Grace. Christ has died, Christ has
risen, Christ will come again.

Logically, God has no more need to send prophets, because Christ has placed his
Church on the Earth which he claimed the Gates of Hell would not prevail. It would
certainly be met by sieges, no doubts there, but the it will never fall, we have been
given the last words in the Bible, there is no new revelation to top Christianity.

Look, it all started with the Israelites, God’s Chosen People. He sent prophet after prophet af-
ter prophet, promising the same thing, warning about dangers as usual, and professing Truth
that there is only One God, no other Savior, no one Greater, and he is to be worshiped. Never
was there from one religion to another, it was still Judaism. Finally, the prophecies of old had
come to pass, Jesus came, died, resurrected, ascended into Heaven, thence came the Holy
Spirit, as Jesus promised, thus Christianity born. The only thing left is for the world to come
to an end, the coming of the Kingdom of God, final defeat of evil, all things past forgotten…

Nothing on the contradicting prophets Muhammad, the Bab, or Baha’u’llah.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

As I have said before too, “last days” does not refer to LITERALLY the end of the world. It refers to the times of Gods latest Prophet/Messenger. Obviously not the literal end of the world because during the last days, Jesus has spoken to us, and the earth was not destroyed. So obviously Jesus also talked about a FUTURE “last days” when another Messenger will “have spoken to us”

I did not say that the “last days” referred to in Hebrews means the “end of the world,”
but rather this is the final time God is speaking to us. God sent his Son, THAT’S IT!!!
No More Prophets. However many # of days make up from the time of Jesus up until
the end of the world are the “last days.” And Jesus spoke not of another Messenger.

Now there have only been 3 independent Prophets/Mesengers since Jesus’ coming that have withstood the test of time - Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah…

Don’t give the Bab and Baha’u’llah too much credit for
longevity, remember Mormonism has been around lon-
ger, just a little longer. Muhammad, yeah, 1,400 years
about isn’t too shabby.

But what about Krishna, the Buddha, and Zarathustra?
Hinduism is still around, Buddhism is still around, why even Zoroastrianism still
stands and continues to this day burning fire which, so I’ve learned, hasn’t died
for hundreds, if not for thousands, of years.

Go give them all a good thorough testing, and by that I mean OBJECTIVELY, not with “this is never gonna be true”-coloured glasses on.

Where did those “coloured glasses” come from? I’m only
using credible Scriptures to test them. Remember about
that Isaac vs Ishmael problem?
And why do you keep leaving out Krishna, the Buddha, and
Zarathustra? They are just as much prophets in the Baha’i
Faith as Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah, aren’t they?

It’s your duty to God to leave no stone unturned, joining them in their activities (this DOES NOT MEAN YOU BECOME A BAHAI) , just like daler has if you read his posts (his experiences hasn’t harmed him) and then the decision is between you and God
That’s what the Bible expects of you…

If I turn but ONE stone up and find that there is
no good under there, JUST THAT ONE ROCK,
then the Prophet in question has failed. That is
how seriously God takes the Full Truth.

 

[Servant19]

…we have been
given the last words in the Bible, there is no new revelation to top Christianity.
.

You keep on saying this sort of thing after acknowledging that the Bible CLEARLY says that there will be Prophets after Jesus. Do you deny the Bible?

Or do you deny that true Prophets are sent by God to reveal His Word?

What would you expect from a Prophet who has come after Jesus, which you acknowledge MUST happen (unless the Bible speaks falsities)? What do you expect from this Prophet?

 

[Servant19]

No More Prophets.

There you go, are at it again???

Okay, fine, I’ll let you have that one I guess, I?..

Are you a man of your word Judas??
Do you deny the Bible?