V
- Status
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Except you still need to verify the rest of the Baha’i Faith with the Bible. It’s coincidental,
at best, but even if the math (if correct) corresponds well enough to fit, Baha’u’llah is still
at odds with the rest of Scripture. Remember: Ishmael vs Isaac.
Nope, the world is still under the Devil’s dominion, there is still sickness and death,
people still sinning, all of which shall be no more when Christ returns for real. Your
Baha’u’llah is a false prophet, one of the many Jesus and his Apostles warned us
about. He preaches a different Gospel.I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and
are turning to a different gospel ― which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you
into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should
preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
– (Galatians 1:6-8)
S
Servant19
Guest
MR. VOUTHON!!!
God bless your existence!
THIS, what you posted, is something that 99% of the Christian world is either not aware of, or have not grasped in their entirety…
Warmest blessings…
.
S
Servant19
Guest
Judas, might I humbly ask you to study the post above from our dear Catholic learned one, Vouthon?
.
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Okay, so here we are, the Bible says one things, and you’re telling me that it does matter.
Jesus was born, begotten, but NOT made. I do consider the Ascension as liter-
al unless I have reason not to from the Bible. Jesus will come back in the same
way he ascended into Heaven. Your Baha’u’llah was the product of sexual inter-
course, just like everybody else, so we cannot even say his coming was mirac-
ulous. You are misapplying John 3:8.
Look, it’s simple. The Bible says that Jesus went UP into Heaven, and disappeared in
a cloud, that’s what the Apostles saw. Again you are misapplying Scripture, stop that.
John 3:12 does not address the Ascension.
Yes, Jesus in spirit came from Heaven I believe and into Mary’s virgin womb. He did
come FROM Heaven invisibly, BUT he returned in a body of flesh, and so it shall be
that he will come back that way.
Now you ask what the “spiritual meaning” is? How about the “meaning” itself, hmm?Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him,
and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land
shall wail because of him. Yea. Amen.
– (Revelation 1:7)
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Fascinating, I’ll check that out.Judas, might I humbly ask you to study the post above from our dear Catholic learned one, Vouthon?
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
I think that is fascinating, but how then are we to expect Christ’s return?
I don’t believe Jesus ascended into the stars to some particular location,
but I do believe he ascended, was covered in a cloud, then he vanished
into Heaven (not in an area of time and space).
I believe that is in accordance to the Pope Emeritus’ words. Guide me in
this interpretation of Scripture you provided. What did the Apostles SEE?
V
Vouthon
Guest
Dear Judas
Thank you, brother, for your question!
When the pope spoke of the “cloud” being “theological language”, he was suggesting that the sacred author was employing the usage of a stylistic metaphor common throughout the Jewish Tanakh rather than recounting some kind of more physical event, when he related this experience. In the Hebrew Bible, a cloud often expresses two things:
As to what the disciples “saw”, I would say that the Bible is telling us that they beheld Jesus in the fullness of His Glory as the Lord of all creation, exalted above the heavens. It is possible that to demonstrate this, Jesus might have “physically” lifted up off the ground, however this is not the primary significance of the event and would be a secondary or concomitant element of this experience for the Apostles. Other interpretations are possible and the use of that “cloud” in the story practically invites a less literal interpretation of what they “saw” happen to Jesus.
We don’t know how Jesus will “return” and appear to all human beings, just as we do not really know how he “ascended”. The accounts of Jesus’ ascension describe a miracle that is beyond human words to describe, and the attempts at describing it use literal, physical happenings such as “clouds” and Jesus ascending into the sky. We cannot comprehend what truly happened, what the Apostles truly saw/felt/experienced. It was a profoundly spiritual event which the Apostles witnessed: seeing their Lord departing from the physical universe and residing in his pre-existent Glory beside God the Father, in his full glorified Body, yet still being present to them because He is at “the right hand” of the Father beyond place and time; God being the ground from which all existence comes and depends on.
Christ ascending into the sky and hidden behind a cloud, this is biblical lingo for saying that the apostles beheld Jesus in all the fullness of his Glory, exalted above all creation, as the very “tabernacle” of God, in whom all the fullness of Divinity was pleased to dwell.
The words “caught up in the clouds” are used to illustrate how quickly things will transform at the Second Coming of Christ: “We shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verse 17 says, “Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
When Jesus comes again we will be “caught up into the clouds” like he was at his Ascension into Heaven, not so much “literal clouds” but rather in the Manifest Presence of God in Heaven, in the New Creation. That is, we will all - by an immanent, immediate, sudden, drastic change - be surrounded by the Divine Presence and enter into the World to Come and the New Heavens and the New Earth. The human mind cannot right now comprehend how Jesus will return at his Second Coming and how our physical universe, the reality we know, will be utterly transformed in what Saint Paul calls “the twinkling of an eye”.
What the Apostles would have seen is incomprehensible to human imagination. The biblical account is trying to put it in intelligible language using symbols that we would understand.
Jesus being lifted up from the earth and being “caught up in the clouds” means to tell us that Jesus is the link between heaven and earth. He is God made flesh and through him we, the human race, can ascend to God. He has repaired in his broken body on the cross, the gulf that existed between the physical universe corrupted by sin and heaven, that is the spiritual universe.
In him, in his Human-Divine Body, Heaven and Earth are brought together and the relationship between God and Mankind which was broken by the Fall, has now been repaired in Jesus Christ, the Only Son of God.
“God became man, so that men might become God” said St Athanasius.
The Ascension of Jesus is the moment when this truth was divinely revealed to the Apostles. The disciples received the divine knowledge straight from Christ that he was the link between God and man, that he had departed from the physical universe and was now in glory with God the Father.
(continued…)
Thank you, brother, for your question!
When the pope spoke of the “cloud” being “theological language”, he was suggesting that the sacred author was employing the usage of a stylistic metaphor common throughout the Jewish Tanakh rather than recounting some kind of more physical event, when he related this experience. In the Hebrew Bible, a cloud often expresses two things:
- God’s Glory (ie the “Pillar of Cloud” in Exodus 13:21)
- The Shekhinah (“manifest presence”) of God (ie Hebrews 1:2-3)
As to what the disciples “saw”, I would say that the Bible is telling us that they beheld Jesus in the fullness of His Glory as the Lord of all creation, exalted above the heavens. It is possible that to demonstrate this, Jesus might have “physically” lifted up off the ground, however this is not the primary significance of the event and would be a secondary or concomitant element of this experience for the Apostles. Other interpretations are possible and the use of that “cloud” in the story practically invites a less literal interpretation of what they “saw” happen to Jesus.
We don’t know how Jesus will “return” and appear to all human beings, just as we do not really know how he “ascended”. The accounts of Jesus’ ascension describe a miracle that is beyond human words to describe, and the attempts at describing it use literal, physical happenings such as “clouds” and Jesus ascending into the sky. We cannot comprehend what truly happened, what the Apostles truly saw/felt/experienced. It was a profoundly spiritual event which the Apostles witnessed: seeing their Lord departing from the physical universe and residing in his pre-existent Glory beside God the Father, in his full glorified Body, yet still being present to them because He is at “the right hand” of the Father beyond place and time; God being the ground from which all existence comes and depends on.
Christ ascending into the sky and hidden behind a cloud, this is biblical lingo for saying that the apostles beheld Jesus in all the fullness of his Glory, exalted above all creation, as the very “tabernacle” of God, in whom all the fullness of Divinity was pleased to dwell.
The words “caught up in the clouds” are used to illustrate how quickly things will transform at the Second Coming of Christ: “We shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verse 17 says, “Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
When Jesus comes again we will be “caught up into the clouds” like he was at his Ascension into Heaven, not so much “literal clouds” but rather in the Manifest Presence of God in Heaven, in the New Creation. That is, we will all - by an immanent, immediate, sudden, drastic change - be surrounded by the Divine Presence and enter into the World to Come and the New Heavens and the New Earth. The human mind cannot right now comprehend how Jesus will return at his Second Coming and how our physical universe, the reality we know, will be utterly transformed in what Saint Paul calls “the twinkling of an eye”.
What the Apostles would have seen is incomprehensible to human imagination. The biblical account is trying to put it in intelligible language using symbols that we would understand.
Jesus being lifted up from the earth and being “caught up in the clouds” means to tell us that Jesus is the link between heaven and earth. He is God made flesh and through him we, the human race, can ascend to God. He has repaired in his broken body on the cross, the gulf that existed between the physical universe corrupted by sin and heaven, that is the spiritual universe.
In him, in his Human-Divine Body, Heaven and Earth are brought together and the relationship between God and Mankind which was broken by the Fall, has now been repaired in Jesus Christ, the Only Son of God.
“God became man, so that men might become God” said St Athanasius.
The Ascension of Jesus is the moment when this truth was divinely revealed to the Apostles. The disciples received the divine knowledge straight from Christ that he was the link between God and man, that he had departed from the physical universe and was now in glory with God the Father.
(continued…)
V
Vouthon
Guest
In terms of “clouds” being a metaphor for “Glory” I’m sure that many Baha’is on here will probably see in this respect further vindication for their belief that Baha’u’llah (The Glory of God) is the Second Coming of Christ.
I should make it clear that I would categorically reject this interpretation
The Bible tells us that as soon as Christ’s comes again, “everyone” will know instantly and the New Heavens and Earth will come into being. It is the traditional view of Catholics and Orthodox Christians that the second coming will be a sudden and unmistakable incident, like “a flash of lightning”.[Mt 24:27] They hold the general view that Jesus will not spend any time on the earth in ministry or preaching. He will appear to ALL in a single instant. He will not physically walk on the earth again and preach and talk. He will just appear, His Return will be known to all through a glorious miracle and in that instant everything will change. It will happen in an instant. In a blink of the eye.
To my mind, Baha’u’llah’s “coming” did not happen in this way. In this respect he cannot be the Jesus Christ we are expecting, despite all his many noble teachings. He declared himself to be a Manifestation of God in 1863 and this was not instantly known by every single human being alive. Even today, there are some people who have never heard of Baha’u’llah. The Baha’i Faith took many years to spread the message of Baha’u’llah’s advent. This is not consistent with how the Bible or Sacred Tradition describes the Second Coming of Jesus.
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:27)
And again:
*Matthew 24:30 *- “all the tribes of the earth … will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven”
*Revelation 1:*7 - “Behold, he is coming amid the clouds, and every eye will see him”
In the same way we do not know how he will “be revealed” when he returns. The Bible tells us that the “Sign of the Son of Man” will appear and he will come again. In that instant a New Universe will come into being.
This did not happen in 1863. Baha’u’llah’s Declaration was not immediately known from “East to West”. Every single human being did not suddenly declare, “The Messiah has returned! I see him!” I don’t see any evidence of ordinary life across the whole world being disrupted in 1863. It just doesn’t fit what the Bible teaches and how the Church, with Sacred Tradition, has always understood what the Second Coming of Christ would be like and mean.
Rather Baha’u’llah’s message took many years to spread, and still to this day there will be people who haven’t heard of him. Paul said that we will all “be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”.
Jesus, now that He is Risen, cannot and will not return to ordinary life and live among us. Catholics believe this and the Bible and Sacred Tradition attest too it.
As a result, Baha’u’llah does not fit the bill for us since he is not Christ in His glorified form but a mortal man leading a mortal life just like Jesus did before His resurrection. This is not the Second Coming, Jesus will not lead another human life among men. He is glorified above all time and place.
This is why Jesus warned people to ignore any reports that He had returned and was somewhere on the earth. People will appear and do miracles on the earth (Matt. 24:23-27), but Jesus will remain in the “clouds”, that is exalted above all creation, time and space in His glorified state, and when he comes again it will be for the purpose of a “New Heavens and a New Earth”, not to lead a mortal life and die again.
I commend the Baha’is for correctly seeing that the “clouds” in the ascension accounts do not refer so much to physical clouds as they are linguistic indicators of the “Manifest Presence” and “Glory” of God. However it is after this that I must part ways with them as a Catholic.
I hope that my understanding in this respect has been sufficiently described by me.
I should make it clear that I would categorically reject this interpretation
The Bible tells us that as soon as Christ’s comes again, “everyone” will know instantly and the New Heavens and Earth will come into being. It is the traditional view of Catholics and Orthodox Christians that the second coming will be a sudden and unmistakable incident, like “a flash of lightning”.[Mt 24:27] They hold the general view that Jesus will not spend any time on the earth in ministry or preaching. He will appear to ALL in a single instant. He will not physically walk on the earth again and preach and talk. He will just appear, His Return will be known to all through a glorious miracle and in that instant everything will change. It will happen in an instant. In a blink of the eye.
To my mind, Baha’u’llah’s “coming” did not happen in this way. In this respect he cannot be the Jesus Christ we are expecting, despite all his many noble teachings. He declared himself to be a Manifestation of God in 1863 and this was not instantly known by every single human being alive. Even today, there are some people who have never heard of Baha’u’llah. The Baha’i Faith took many years to spread the message of Baha’u’llah’s advent. This is not consistent with how the Bible or Sacred Tradition describes the Second Coming of Jesus.
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:27)
And again:
*Matthew 24:30 *- “all the tribes of the earth … will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven”
*Revelation 1:*7 - “Behold, he is coming amid the clouds, and every eye will see him”
In the same way we do not know how he will “be revealed” when he returns. The Bible tells us that the “Sign of the Son of Man” will appear and he will come again. In that instant a New Universe will come into being.
This did not happen in 1863. Baha’u’llah’s Declaration was not immediately known from “East to West”. Every single human being did not suddenly declare, “The Messiah has returned! I see him!” I don’t see any evidence of ordinary life across the whole world being disrupted in 1863. It just doesn’t fit what the Bible teaches and how the Church, with Sacred Tradition, has always understood what the Second Coming of Christ would be like and mean.
Rather Baha’u’llah’s message took many years to spread, and still to this day there will be people who haven’t heard of him. Paul said that we will all “be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”.
Jesus, now that He is Risen, cannot and will not return to ordinary life and live among us. Catholics believe this and the Bible and Sacred Tradition attest too it.
As a result, Baha’u’llah does not fit the bill for us since he is not Christ in His glorified form but a mortal man leading a mortal life just like Jesus did before His resurrection. This is not the Second Coming, Jesus will not lead another human life among men. He is glorified above all time and place.
This is why Jesus warned people to ignore any reports that He had returned and was somewhere on the earth. People will appear and do miracles on the earth (Matt. 24:23-27), but Jesus will remain in the “clouds”, that is exalted above all creation, time and space in His glorified state, and when he comes again it will be for the purpose of a “New Heavens and a New Earth”, not to lead a mortal life and die again.
I commend the Baha’is for correctly seeing that the “clouds” in the ascension accounts do not refer so much to physical clouds as they are linguistic indicators of the “Manifest Presence” and “Glory” of God. However it is after this that I must part ways with them as a Catholic.
I hope that my understanding in this respect has been sufficiently described by me.
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Dear Judas
Thank you, brother, for your question!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(continued…)
Yes, you explained well.In terms of “clouds” being a metaphor for “Glory” I’m sure that many Baha’is on here will probably see in this respect further vindication for their belief that Baha’u’llah (The Glory of God) is the Second Coming of Christ.
I should make it clear that I would categorically reject this interpretation
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I hope that my understanding in this respect has been sufficiently described by me.
I worried for a moment before, as I thought the Pope Emeritus’ words,
if used out of context, could give the Baha’i some theological “wiggle
room”, if you will. Thank you!
R
roselily
Guest
I do not know it, but since I do not know it is that everything is possible, possible, and that.
[/quote]
P
Protestor
Guest
I believe what I believe because of the experiences that I have experienced and the truth that I would say I know is because my experiences pointed me to those truths.
J
JoelleWyserPrat
Guest
Believe what you believe is right for as long it won’t hurt other, it will work.
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Not if it leads you away from God forever.
J
JoelleWyserPrat
Guest
Of course, GOD should always be the center of everything.
S
Servant19
Guest
Thank you brother VouthonIn terms of “clouds” being a metaphor for “Glory” I’m sure that many Baha’is on here will probably see in this respect further vindication for their belief that Baha’u’llah (The Glory of God) is the Second Coming of Christ.
I should make it clear that I would categorically reject this interpretation
…
In the same way we do not know how he will “be revealed” when he returns. The Bible tells us that the “Sign of the Son of Man” will appear and he will come again. In that instant a New Universe will come into being.
This did not happen in 1863. Baha’u’llah’s Declaration was not immediately known from “East to West”. Every single human being did not suddenly declare, “The Messiah has returned! I see him!” I don’t see any evidence of ordinary life across the whole world being disrupted in 1863. It just doesn’t fit what the Bible teaches and how the Church, with Sacred Tradition, has always understood what the Second Coming of Christ would be like and mean.
Rather Baha’u’llah’s message took many years to spread, and still to this day there will be people who haven’t heard of him. Paul said that we will all “be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”.
Jesus, now that He is Risen, cannot and will not return to ordinary life and live among us. Catholics believe this and the Bible and Sacred Tradition attest too it.
As a result, Baha’u’llah does not fit the bill for us since he is not Christ in His glorified form but a mortal man leading a mortal life just like Jesus did before His resurrection. This is not the Second Coming, Jesus will not lead another human life among men. He is glorified above all time and place.
This is why Jesus warned people to ignore any reports that He had returned and was somewhere on the earth. People will appear and do miracles on the earth (Matt. 24:23-27), but Jesus will remain in the “clouds”, that is exalted above all creation, time and space in His glorified state, and when he comes again it will be for the purpose of a “New Heavens and a New Earth”, not to lead a mortal life and die again.
I commend the Baha’is for correctly seeing that the “clouds” in the ascension accounts do not refer so much to physical clouds as they are linguistic indicators of the “Manifest Presence” and “Glory” of God. However it is after this that I must part ways with them as a Catholic.
I hope that my understanding in this respect has been sufficiently described by me.
It seems clearly obvious that it has taken 2011 years for the TRUE and SYMBOLIC meanings of these terms to be revealed to the Catholic community.
Why did it take so long?
Bahaullah revealed a Mighty Book to explain these verses of symbolic language.
Please, friends, study this book, (Kitab-i-Iqan reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/) for the billions of people who died “prior” to the Popes explanations died with false understanding of Christs Ascension.
How would one know if ALL the words used to describe Christs return are not symbolic also?
Brother Vouthon, you accepted the Popes explanation of symbolism for the term clouds yet you went on to ascribe to a “literal” meaning to everything else describing His Return.
Why??
“They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” (2 Tim 4:4)
“…they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear” (2 Tim 4:3)
A myth of literal clouds has been removed by the Pope, why cling onto other myths??
Indeed these are the end times.
Why do you wait for the Pope to remove the myths from your understandings? We must OVERCOME these myths on our own, for in this Day, this wondrous Day of knowledge, these is no excuse in the sight of God for anyone’s inability to grasp these truths…
Revelation 3:
“11 Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.”
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!Thank you brother Vouthon
It seems clearly obvious that it has taken 2011 years for the TRUE and SYMBOLIC meanings of these terms to be revealed to the Catholic community.
Why did it take so long?
Before you were showing off all that (what you call) mathematical justification
for the Baha’i Faith, but you forgot to take into account that Jesus was thirty-
-three about when his Church was founded, taking into account also the six
year margin around the year of his birth (around 6 BCE to 6 CE)? Oy Vey.
CONTEXT.Bahaullah revealed a Mighty Book to explain these verses of symbolic language.
Please, friends, study this book, (Kitab-i-Iqan reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/) for the billions of people who died “prior” to the Popes explanations died with false understanding of Christs Ascension.
How would one know if ALL the words used to describe Christs return are not symbolic also?
Brother Vouthon, you accepted the Popes explanation of symbolism for the term clouds yet you went on to ascribe to a “literal” meaning to everything else describing His Return.
Why??
Yes, myths like the one that holds Krishna, Zarathustra, Buddha, Moses, Jesus,
Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah all as prophets of the one and same God.
(Also: JOSEPH’S MYTH)!
Does that not describe the Baha’i?
Though this is recent news to me, I would not be so sur-
prised that this idea has been on the books a while now.
No, if Baha’u’llah is the Second Coming, then all would be over and we would be living
in a perfect world. Baha’u’llah lived in the 1800s, what happened within 100 yeas after
his death? WWI and WWII, etc.
Okay, that’s interesting, give me a moment . . . (flipping pages) . . .
Overcome? Overcome what? In Chapter 3, I read of the assembly of Satan coming
to deceive, I also read of keeping to endurance (in faith) against all odds in a pagan
world, clearly the passage you brought up is referring to Christians who hold fast to
faith in Jesus Christ, that HE is our GOD & SAVIOR. They who succeed in Christ,
who overcome all trials, the victors, will be made pillars in the Temple of God.
I fail to see how this helps your case at all, as Chapter 3 of Revelation is
on letters sent to seven Christian churches, telling them to “hold fast” to
the Faith, warning of evils that stalk Christians wishing to tempt and de-
ceive them away from God, nothing at all that defends the Baha’i Faith.
I urge you now:He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.
- (Revelation 3:13)
S
Servant19
Guest
I am not here to argue dear friendWHAT JUST HAPPENED?!
Before you were showing off all that (what you call) mathematical justification
for the Baha’i Faith, but you forgot to take into account that Jesus was thirty-
-three about when his Church was founded, taking into account also the six
year margin around the year of his birth (around 6 BCE to 6 CE)? Oy Vey.
CONTEXT.
Yes, myths like the one that holds Krishna, Zarathustra, Buddha, Moses, Jesus,
Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah all as prophets of the one and same God.
(Also: JOSEPH’S MYTH)!
Does that not describe the Baha’i?
Though this is recent news to me, I would not be so sur-
prised that this idea has been on the books a while now.
No, if Baha’u’llah is the Second Coming, then all would be over and we would be living
in a perfect world. Baha’u’llah lived in the 1800s, what happened within 100 yeas after
his death? WWI and WWII, etc.
Okay, that’s interesting, give me a moment . . . (flipping pages) . . .
Overcome? Overcome what? In Chapter 3, I read of the assembly of Satan coming
to deceive, I also read of keeping to endurance (in faith) against all odds in a pagan
world, clearly the passage you brought up is referring to Christians who hold fast to
faith in Jesus Christ, that HE is our GOD & SAVIOR. They who succeed in Christ,
who overcome all trials, the victors, will be made pillars in the Temple of God.
I fail to see how this helps your case at all, as Chapter 3 of Revelation is
on letters sent to seven Christian churches, telling them to “hold fast” to
the Faith, warning of evils that stalk Christians wishing to tempt and de-
ceive them away from God, nothing at all that defends the Baha’i Faith.
I urge you now:He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.
- (Revelation 3:13)
I will let the past 10-15 posts speak for themselves…
God bless you all in your search…
Ya Baha’ul-Abha!
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Sorry Servant, I’m just gravely concerned. :sad_yes:I am not here to argue dear friend
I will let the past 10-15 posts speak for themselves…
God bless you all in your search…
Ya Baha’ul-Abha!
In all fairness though, you must understand that when you use Christian Scripture in
your responses, whether it is to support the Baha’i Faith or diminish the Christian un-
derstanding of the Bible (which in turn is to support Baha’i), then I (being a Christian) have a right to defend my Faith and seek to correct your misapplying of God’s Word.
S
Servant19
Guest
Please tell me, dear Judas, does Pope Benedict’s exposition on the meaning of “Ascension” diminish or enhance the Christian understanding of Christs departure into so called “clouds”?
.
- Status