Why do you care?

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G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…

Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?

I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
 
Well, I cannot speak for others, but in 1998 I moved to an area of California where anti-Catholic sentiment runs rampant. I believe that, like JPII told us and like we say at the end of the Mass, it is my duty as a Catholic to defend my faith. I cannot do that without knowledge and without a heart full of love for Jesus Christ and the Church He founded.

Now, I understand what you are saying. I think there will always be arguments - shoot, people who call themselves Catholics argue about what should and should not be ok in the Church - but that does not absolve me of the obligation to lovingly defend my faith and evangelize (excuse my spelling…a degree from Berkeley and I cannot spell worth a darn…can you believe that?) the Word.

When I started to learn more so as to answers those in the Central Valley of California who have such hatred for Catholics, I did it because I was tired of being pushed around and having my faith improperly represented in the local media and by the local government. Then, because of my study, I found myself falling in love with my Church all over again. Today I defend it from a position of knowing the Truth and feeling the Love. It precludes any insecurity. Trust me. Or better yet, Trust Jesus. I do. 😉
 
Why do I care…
Well my reason for arguing my faith is simple. I believe that Catholicism is the Church which Jesus promised to us in the bible. I believe that many people do not know what the Catholic Church is or stands for. I don’t try to convert people to Catholicism, instead I wish to educate people as to the truth’s of Catholicism so that they may make their own decisions regarding faith.

For instance if someone is an anti-catholic and they can accurately state the Catholic positions then I leave them alone. For that is a person who has studied the options and made a choice. However, most people who dislike Catholicism do not know what Catholicism is or why we believe what we believe. It is right to spread the faith and educate others as to what we believe. We are called by our religion to spread the word, so that is what we do.

Basically we should try to educate everyone as to what Catholicism is in order that they may accept it or reject it on their own. We should not try to make the decision for them, but instead let them have all the facts so that they may make an informed decision.

I believe Bishop Fulton Sheen said something about most people don’t hate the Catholic Church for what it is, but instead hate the Church for what the incorrectly believe it to be.
 
Let’s say you are a rocket scientist–no, really: an actual scientist who is part of a team that is responsible for launching manned rockets into space. One minor mistake can cause failure to the mission and get someone–possibly several someones–killed.

Imagine further you are going over the calculations right before “go for launch” and you see a glaring mathematical error–one that, if not corrected, will cause the engines to explode within minutes.

Would you feel you have the responsibility to point out this error? (say “yes”). Why? (“Because it is true, and because people could get kilt if no one says anything. Lives are at stake, for goodness sakes!”)

I care about the Faith and defend it because it is true; because lives –eternal lives–are at stake. It isn’t accurate to say that we have no way to really know the things you specifically mention. These things have been revealed to us through the Church which has the whole Gospel: Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Teaching Office (Magisterium). If it isn’t possible to recognize, follow and defend what God has so providentially and plainly revealed against those who would misunderstand and misrepresent it, we are all living in a fantasy world of our own making. We would be, as St. Paul said, the most pitied of men.
 
Thanx for your reply - but you and I have different definitions of what opinion, and what truth are.
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Fidelis:
Let’s say you are a rocket scientist–no, really: an actual scientist who is part of a team that is responsible for launching manned rockets into space. One minor mistake can cause failure to the mission and get someone–possibly several someones–killed.

Imagine further you are going over the calculations right before “go for launch” and you see a glaring mathematical error–one that, if not corrected, will cause the engines to explode within minutes.

Would you feel you have the responsibility to point out this error? (say “yes”). Why? (“Because it is true, and because people could get kilt if no one says anything. Lives are at stake, for goodness sakes!”)

I care about the Faith and defend it because it is true; because lives –eternal lives–are at stake. It isn’t accurate to say that we have no way to really know the things you specifically mention. These things have been revealed to us through the Church which has the whole Gospel: Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Teaching Office (Magisterium). If it isn’t possible to recognize, follow and defend what God has so providentially and plainly revealed against those who would misunderstand and misrepresent it, we are all living in a fantasy world of our own making. We would be, as St. Paul said, the most pitied of men.
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Strength:
G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…

Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?

I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
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Dear Strength,

Excellent question! It reminds me of Mark 10:35-45 The ambition of James and John. Maybe your answer lies here, in part?

Maybe it’s because we all want, to know truth and to be pleasing in God’s sight, so we set out to prove we do and we are?

I tend to argue when I percieve justice is not being served, like when others are being oppressed or preferred because of race, religion, gender etc…

Happy pondering,

Elizabeth
 
why do I care?

Because Satan has so divided us that we are losing the objectiveness of truth in this country and throughout the world.

Because Jesus said we were all to be one in Him, one faith, one church, one body in our Lord.

But mostly because I was never really taught about the church as a child. I attended Catholic school, daily mass, went to confession every week etc… but was never taught the whys of what I was doing, the history of what I was doing and the absolute necessity of receiving the grace available through the sacraments. I was easy pickings for being drawn away and lost twenty years of my life floundering around until the Holy Spirit had mercy on me and called me home. Now I use this forum, read everything I can to learn all I can about Jesus and His church so that I am able to pass the knowledge on to my children. It is my hope that with knowledge and understanding, they will not be such easy pickings. I pray that what I impart to them will keep them in the church so that every aspect of their lives will be blessed and they will never forsake Jesus and His loving embrace.
 
HMMMMMMMMM. So there is no such thing as an absolute truth? If there are two contradictory teachings, neither one is “right” or “wrong”, but can only be considered more or less “right” or “wrong” according to any given individual perception?

Sounds like the “thinking” of a moral relativist, an indifferentist, a secular humanist, ideologically speaking.

No worries for such Somebody claims that the sky is blue? But somebody else says it is not? Well, scientific studies show that, though the sky “appears” blue because of the way that color of the spectrum is reflected or refracted (please, I’m no scientist, LOL), it is not really blue. And at night it looks black. Some polluted or foggy places have gray skies, some yellow. And of course, some people are color blind.

Blah, blah, blah. Because one individual doesn’t “see” the color blue. . .or somebody quibbles over what “blue” is (are we using the SCIENTIFIC definition, the literary definition, what SHADE are we using, have we given sufficient consideration to our differently sighted friends, blah blah), we can’t even make a simple statement that “the sky is blue”.

Well, I DO believe in moral absolutes. I believe that some things are morally wrong, always. . .abortion, euthanasia, murder. They aren’t just “wrong only if I think they’re wrong”, they aren’t just wrong depending on CIRCUMSTANCES.

So I care about people making not just “wrong” choices, but “damnable” ones, ones that kill the soul. And I care about people being led astray, given the comforting lies of “it doesn’t really matter how you believe or act” or “a loving God doesn’t care if you sin”, or “nobody will ever go to hell”, or “it’s all the same God whether you call him buddha, allah, christ or mother goddess”.
 
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Strength:
G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…

Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?

I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
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I don’t think that Protestants and Catholics on this site are bitter toward each other. There are some very heated debates, but I have a feeling that both sides enjoy the intellictual give and take. I have been on other sites that are much nastier.

Because you are on a Catholic Apologetics website there are many posters that are very knowledgable about their faith and willing to defend thier faith. Of course there are Protestants-I happen to think they are not in the majority-who have strong, but incorrect beliefs on Catholics. This site is a wonderful vehicle to educate people about what Catholics really believe. I’m not certain what the alternative is. SHould we not-with charity-defend our own faith?
 
Is this an answer to my post?..I think you locked on to a different thread or something.
Tantum ergo:
HMMMMMMMMM. So there is no such thing as an absolute truth? If there are two contradictory teachings, neither one is “right” or “wrong”, but can only be considered more or less “right” or “wrong” according to any given individual perception?

Sounds like the “thinking” of a moral relativist, an indifferentist, a secular humanist, ideologically speaking.

No worries for such Somebody claims that the sky is blue? But somebody else says it is not? Well, scientific studies show that, though the sky “appears” blue because of the way that color of the spectrum is reflected or refracted (please, I’m no scientist, LOL), it is not really blue. And at night it looks black. Some polluted or foggy places have gray skies, some yellow. And of course, some people are color blind.

Blah, blah, blah. Because one individual doesn’t “see” the color blue. . .or somebody quibbles over what “blue” is (are we using the SCIENTIFIC definition, the literary definition, what SHADE are we using, have we given sufficient consideration to our differently sighted friends, blah blah), we can’t even make a simple statement that “the sky is blue”.

Well, I DO believe in moral absolutes. I believe that some things are morally wrong, always. . .abortion, euthanasia, murder. They aren’t just “wrong only if I think they’re wrong”, they aren’t just wrong depending on CIRCUMSTANCES.

So I care about people making not just “wrong” choices, but “damnable” ones, ones that kill the soul. And I care about people being led astray, given the comforting lies of “it doesn’t really matter how you believe or act” or “a loving God doesn’t care if you sin”, or “nobody will ever go to hell”, or “it’s all the same God whether you call him buddha, allah, christ or mother goddess”.
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Strength:
Is this an answer to my post?..I think you locked on to a different thread or something.
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I think that if you read tantum ergo’s post to the end then you will see his/her answer to your question.
 
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Strength:
Thanx for your reply - but you and I have different definitions of what opinion, and what truth are.
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So be it.

In that case, however, you are asking the wrong question to the wrong group of people. If those who frequent these forums believed that religious issues were merely opinion, then yes, these debates would be futile, ridiculous exercises. But unless you approach a question from the viewpoint or worldview of the questionee, you will never understand their answer.
 
I think he is replying, Strength…he’s saying he defends the faith to save souls…he is an admirable person.
 
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Strength:
Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?
I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
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Strength, if your question is sincere, it might be one of those, “If you don’t get it, you won’t get it,” kind of things.
Speaking for myself, I care because I not only believe Catholic teaching, I love it. I want everyone to have the fullness of faith that the Church gives me, and I don’t believe that faith cannot be expained.
Additionally, when someone, through ignorance or animus, misstates what I believe, I am required to correct him.
I care because Jesus told me to: Mt 28:18 - 20.
 
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Strength:
G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…

Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?

I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
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To whom are you asking this question? Are you presumming that we are all angry here? Your question is offensive in that it is an indictment on all Catholics; you replace our love and zeal for our faith with anger and insecurity!

If it bothers you so much that we care about our faith and the way it is presented to the world then I would like to ask you one simple question: why do you care that we care?

What would you think of us if we didn’t care?
 
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Strength:
G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…
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…But not as far as politics goes? I think religion is a far more worthy topic to discuss.
 
I thought I did a pretty good job with my post…Which in a nutshell could be summed up “Why do fellow Christians argue over specifics…or split hairs…i.e Purgatory?”…who cares? I’m fairly astute when it comes to philosophical ideas…and logical analysis…and I’ve read the bible, and read interpretations of the texts from the RC’s and the protestants among others…for every argument a protestant claims to make -an RC can find a passage to contradict it and vice versus…they are all fairly sound in that “religious/philosophical” sort of way, and they’ve been hashed out for centuries…so why bother - you’ll both probably end up in heaven.

And whether you want to believe that religous ideas are opinions is useless also I guess… but it is opinion…why have faith then? To have an opinion on something isn’t negative?..what’s the problem?

There aren’t a whole lot of objective facts outside of the material world my friend -if any. Show me a room full of people who are arguing over whether they are in a room arguing…and I’ll show you a room full of idiots…Hey do you guys want to argue over whether or not gravity exists?..hhhe
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Fidelis:
So be it.

In that case, however, you are asking the wrong question to the wrong group of people. If those who frequent these forums believed that religious issues were merely opinion, then yes, these debates would be futile, ridiculous exercises. But unless you approach a question from the viewpoint or worldview of the questionee, you will never understand their answer.
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Strength:
G.K. Chesterton stated that the only things worth arguing about were religion and politics…I’ve thought about this alot, and I think he is completely wrong as far as religion goes…

Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Tradition…over thinking biblical passages, etc…They just cannot nor will they ever be reconciled…but Catholics and Protestants fight to the bitter end on whether or not Peter was the first pope…or whether purgatory is an actuality etc…etc…Why do you care?

I’ve been reading a lot of posts…and I’m picking up on a severe vibe of insecurity regarding faith, and strength…Aren’t you happy with your lives? Why do the religious fight so bitterly over things that are impossible to know? Is faith that fragile? Are we bored?..What is it that angers you so…I’m just curious.
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It about Truth, dear chap! (said in an English accent)

Peace
 
Faith cannot be explained…it just can’t. Strength
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I can’t agree with this statement. It’s simply not true. Since you quoted Chesterton, I suggest you read his The Catholic Church and Conversion and come away making statements like this.

And yes, this is on topic since you make this argument a priori for discussing how and why people disagree about religion.
 
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