Why do you hate Islam?

[planten]

If Islam is true, why does it have trouble accepting that one of their prophets died on a cross? If Islam is true, what difference does it make?

**sedonoman, any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person away from the Mercy of God (See bibleOT). A cursed person has no love of God. Jesus knew that, That is why he prayed earnestly in the garden to avoid the cup.
Your religion teachs you that Jesus became a cursed person. Our religion Islam tells us that Jesus was a true man of God. Allah accepted his prayer and miraculously saved Jesus from the ignominous (cursed) death on the cross.

Jews of that time wanted to kill Jesus on the cross to prove that he was a cursed and false person who had no nearness to God. Jesus did not want that. So you people are now siding with the enemies of Jesus i.e. Jews that indeed Jesus was a false person who died on the cross and became a cursed man.

I hope you understand why Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. Because that is a bad death. Quran has told us that Jesus did not die on the cross. He appeared to be dead. But you are anxious to kill Jesus on the cross. that is bad for Jesus according to Deut 18:20 too. Thar verse says that a false prophet will be killed. You are killing Jesus. We are not killing him at all.

I see that you are wrong, doing some damage to Jesus.
**

 

[Agabriel]

I should add that I like both your posts, and I am not favoring one over the other. I just agree that the truth needs to be told - no matter how much it might seem cruel. I don’t think it is as cruel as what Islam is all about and what it has done, and is doing, to people. The problem is that the truth often seems incredulous when talking about Islam because so many people cannot believe it is as bad as all that.

But, both of you guys are really good - please hug and make up!:hug1:

 

[Agabriel]

**sedonoman, any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person away from the Mercy of God (See bibleOT). A cursed person has no love of God. Jesus knew that, That is why he prayed earnestly in the garden to avoid the cup.
Your religion teachs you that Jesus became a cursed person. Our religion Islam tells us that Jesus was a true man of God. Allah accepted his prayer and miraculously saved Jesus from the ignominous (cursed) death on the cross.

Jews of that time wanted to kill Jesus on the cross to prove that he was a cursed and false person who had no nearness to God. Jesus did not want that. So you people are now siding with the enemies of Jesus i.e. Jews that indeed Jesus was a false person who died on the cross and became a cursed man.

I hope you understand why Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. Because that is a bad death. Quran has told us that Jesus did not die on the cross. He appeared to be dead. But you are anxious to kill Jesus on the cross. that is bad for Jesus according to Deut 18:20 too. Thar verse says that a false prophet will be killed. You are killing Jesus. We are not killing him at all.

I see that you are wrong, doing some damage to Jesus.
**

I will write this again - Apostles, plus his Mother, Mary Magdelene and another Mary - all saw him die on the cross. Many who had no interest in being a follower of Jesus verified that He died on the cross (I won’t write it again because it is apparent that planten doesn’t read them) VS one man, who couldn’t read or write, was born centuries after Jesus lived, and was a pagan for the first 40 years of his life who said He didn’t die on the cross, or Resurrect.

Let me see who I will believe, or who is more believable! (I vote for the ones who were there at the time of Jesus’ death, and not some wannabee Prophet.)

 

[planten]

Hate? That word is difficult. But I believe Islam to be wrong. And it is right to hate wrongness.
When Islam accepts the Apostle Creed as the truth about God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Christ’s Blessed Mother, and all that the Creed entails then I will no longer have to hate Islam.
That being said, I do not hate those who practice this wrong hearted faith. They are children of the Lord God as am I. They are sinners to be redeemed by Christ as am I. And we are all working out our salvation minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

**slyboots, thanks for your hatred. We believe in Noah, Abraham and Moses (and Jesus too). If Abraham and Moses were believing in Trinity and in Jesus as a son of God, if they were believing that there is a Jesus who is god himself, then you can blame us for diverging in our faith.

But if Abraham did not know that Jesus is son of God. Moses did not know it and did not preach or inform any one that there will be a man, Jesus, who will be son of God and who also be the God. If Moses also did not say any such thing nor did he prech it regoriously as the foremost truth then why do you blame the Muslims for not believing such an unusual idea??

I see that you are adrift in these matters.Jesus himself never said any such thing explicitly that he was god. He never told any one to worship him. Nobody prayed to him. he himself used to pray to some one else higher than him. He told his disciples in the garden before arrest to pray, i.e. to pray to God, not to Jesus who himslef was busy praying earnestly to God Almighty… Please copsider all these things of the bibleOt and bibleNT. Then come again.
**

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

**But you are anxious to kill Jesus on the cross. that is bad for Jesus according to Deut 18:20 too. Thar verse says that a false prophet will be killed. You are killing Jesus. We are not killing him at all.
**

Oh come on. The verse is a command to put false prophets to death. It does not in any way say that “any false prophet will be put to death, and that’s how you’ll know he’s a false prophet.” That is an absurdly roundabout interpretation. If I studied the Qur’an in the way that you appear to study the Hebrew Scriptures, I would come to some fairly stereotypical negative conclusions about Islam, if you know what I mean. As long as we’re citing scripture, I say let’s be fair - include the text of scripture you’re quoting and commentary on how you come to the conclusion that you do.

 

[GraceDK]

Ouch that hurts. I’m sorry if my statement offended you. I was trying to state the fact that people are embracing the culture of perversion, treachery, imperviousness all in the name of a religion is unacceptable. They call it fast growth. We are losing people through the teachings of a devilish religion.

Yes you are right it is a bit harsh to say those words but I would point out that I am fed up, fed up with one particular islamic attitude that is sweeping the earth.

The entitlement mentality seems encrypted in their brains that they twist everything to their advantage. You give them a cookie, they bite your arm. You give them a piece of land they never toil it, instead they steal from Christian lands and they say those lands are theirs as well. If Christian don’t gave in, they wage war.

Yes you are right those statement are bigoted. But what about them, can we say they are not? I have come to realize that no one will ever stand against the evil tyranny that their religion promotes. I tell you not the moderate muslim will. Not even the justice system of any country will.

How come no muslim condemns their cohort’s treachery, extortions, beheadings, kidnappings, bombings, terrorist actions, barbaric rule of law all in the name of their god?

Are we so afraid of this tyrants, and their treachery that we readily fall prey to their exploitation and abuses? I tell you I would readily give the other cheek if justice and mercy is serve as prescribed by our Lord Jesus Christ. But having to give your whole head for decapitation is outwardly cowardice. God gave us the faculty to interpret abuses. It is a great disservice if we succumb to bullies who undermine our very importance.

Stop the bully lest he takes everything from you.

If you use Nazi rhetorics like the Nazis did against the Jews (talking about them breeding and being like animals) then you are no better than the Quran.
So tell me. Muhammed and Jesus stands next to each other and you follow one… you follow the one who is Good, Holy, Mercyful, Pure.
You cannot fight stupidity with stupidity or evil with evil. You become like your enemy and he has won over you, its that simple. If you are no better in your rhetorics than Muhammad then people might as well choose Muhammed.
What you did was to dehumanise a group of human beings… thats the first step towards the religious violence seen in Nazism and Islam…
Jesus said… let your righteousness far exceed that of the pharisees…
What you have written here is also worse than any pharisee… but the worst thing is that you cause scandal to the case of Christ.
Ask his forgiveness and dont do it again.
The righteousness of a man heaps burning coal on the head of the unjust… I am sure you have read that in the Bible. It means… a Muslim who continuously sees the good of Christians will start to ask himself: what is it about these people that give them the energy to be nice and peaceful, even when I am emotional and irrational? Many a Muslim has become Christian because of the kindness of Christians. A kindness that you do not possess with your sweeping generalisations.
I have seen some sick stuff at the hands of some - not all - Muslims… But if I write in a moment of indignation with my mind clouded by anger and bigotry then I have harmed the Gospel and it benefits no one.
Start with empathy. And I give you this small video as encouragement: youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=fvsr This woman grew up Muslim. See where she got through civilised examination of her own religion.

Peace

 

[GraceDK]

I will write this again - .)

… you are wasting your time…

 

[koranist]

2:89-”Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”
Jesus never taught us to curse unbelievers

2:97-”Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”
Jesus told us to love our enemies.

2:191-”Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek.

3:28-”The believers should not take the unbelievers as friends or helpers in preference to the believers. He who does this does not belong to Allah in anything, unless you have a fear of them.”
Again Catholics are taught to love everyone.

3:110-”You are the best nation ever to be brought forth for people. You order honor and forbid dishonor, and you believe in Allah. Had the people of the book believed, it would have surely been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are evildoers.”
Most Jews and Christians are wrongdoers.
How are most Christians wrong doers when all we do is love and be kind to our fellow neighbour?

and of course my fave verse
5:51-”O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them in friendship is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.”

Now planten, im only warming up, shall i quote more hateful quotes out of the quran?

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick verses from the Koran without providing the full context of the verses. The verses are often fudged verses that they get from Christian right wing sites or neocon Israel firster sites. The Koran never said do not take them as your friends, its said patrons and guardians BESIDES God. The Koran said the same to Muhammad and said the same to Moses. All believers should not take besides God any guardian or patron. the same chapter(5) said the Gospel should be obeyed and followed. The Koran seperates between the Gospel and Christians as I seperate between Muslims and the Koran.

I have to admit many Christians have a pre-conceived notion of the Koran and then cherry pick verses and hide other verses that does not suit their notions. Most of them haven’t even read the Koran. They are almost the same as Sunnis who talk about Christianity and don’t know a thing about the Gospel. Many Christians throw red herrings and force you to try to explain verse by verse. Anybody can take things out of context. The Koran has over 6,000 verses and its always the sword verses they quote. And even that they quote a verse but not after it or a verse and not before it and sometimes they quote half a verse.

They rely on ignorance of the reader or readers who like what they hear. You quoted half of verse 2-191 and thats not ethical and its dishonest:

190.** Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors**

2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; **but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. **

1. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
2. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression

Very dishonest.

 

[MDK]

I do not hate those who are Islam. The problem with Islam is that there is nothing in its religion that is compatible with Christianity. It like Catholicsm are works oriented religions in which their follows try to make themselves acceptable to God through a system of human works.

Yours is a typical propagandist’s statement against Catholicism, which is skewed and born of no truth, but fear of truth. Why are you guys not embarrassed to keep lying about God’s Church?

Faith alone will not do it for us. Works without faith will not do it for us.

Must we forgive our brethren, in order to be forgiven by the Father? And, if not forgiven ourselves, how can we make it to Heaven?

Jesus told us unless we eat His Body and drink His Blood, we have no life in us. How do we get to Heaven when we have no life in us?

These are just two things we must do. These are born of love for Christ.

Another, if love is greater than faith, and spending eternity in Heaven with God is the greatest thing for us…, then why would faith alone without love be the way to get to Heaven?

God’s grace alone, yes… as our faith alone won’t do it.

**The truth is just as God’s Catholic Church teaches. We are saved by God’s grace, through faith working in love. **

 

[MDK]

**sedonoman, any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person away from the Mercy of God (See bibleOT). A cursed person has no love of God. Jesus knew that, That is why he prayed earnestly in the garden to avoid the cup.
Your religion teachs you that Jesus became a cursed person. Our religion Islam tells us that Jesus was a true man of God. Allah accepted his prayer and miraculously saved Jesus from the ignominous (cursed) death on the cross.
**

Disclaimer: The Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the creation of this person’s post, or any of them.

Here is another example of why I hate Islam… teaches fairy tales instead of truth. Unfortunately, people believe in this, and so never really come to know the beauty and absolute love and mercy of God which He has revealed to us, intended for all mankind.

 

[sedonaman]

**sedonoman, any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person away from the Mercy of God (See bibleOT). A cursed person has no love of God.
…

**

Simon Peter was one of Jesus’ Apostles whom Islam affirms as a messenger of God. He was crucified. Was he also accursed?

 

[MDK]

Simon Peter was one of Jesus’ Apostles that Islam affirms as a messenger of God. He was crucified. Was he also accursed?

Speaking of messengers, it’s some kind of messenger Islam has in Mohammad… what kind of a messenger edits God’s mail to mankind?

 

[sedonaman]

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick verses from the Koran without providing the full context of the verses.
…

We’ve heard this argument a million times before, and it’s been shot down:

But “historical context” cuts both ways. If any verse is a product of history, then they all are. Indeed, there is not a verse in the Qur’an that was not given at a particular time to address a particular situation in Muhammad’s life, whether he wanted to conquer the tribe next door and needed a “revelation” from Allah spurring his people to war, or if needed the same type of “revelation” to satisfy his lust for more women (free of complaint from his other wives).

Here is the irony of the “cherry-picking” argument: Those who use “historical context” against their detractors nearly always engage in cherry-picking of their own by choosing which verses they apply “historical context” to and which they prefer to hold above such tactics of mitigation.

Islamic purists do not engage in such games. Not only do they know that the verses of jihad are more numerous and authoritative (abrogating the earlier ones), they also hold the entire Qur’an to be the eternal and literal word of Allah… and this is what often makes them so dangerous.

From “Games Muslims Play”

 

[MDK]

Oh come on. The verse is a command to put false prophets to death. It does not in any way say that “any false prophet will be put to death, and that’s how you’ll know he’s a false prophet.” That is an absurdly roundabout interpretation. If I studied the Qur’an in the way that you appear to study the Hebrew Scriptures, I would come to some fairly stereotypical negative conclusions about Islam, if you know what I mean. As long as we’re citing scripture, I say let’s be fair - include the text of scripture you’re quoting and commentary on how you come to the conclusion that you do.

It’s only by misinterpreting the Koran and taking out of context that we could get any truth at all “from it”. This is not possible when taken as a whole and interpreting as it was meant.

The opposite is the case with the Bible. When one misinterprets and takes out of context, as Muslims and Protestants do, then any interpretation is possible, and it leads one away from knowing God. The Holy Bible must be taken as a whole, and interpreted as it was meant.

 

[GraceDK]

Yours is a typical propagandist’s statement against Catholicism, which is skewed and born of no truth, but fear of truth. Why are you guys not embarrassed to keep lying about God’s Church?

Faith alone will not do it for us. Works without faith will not do it for us.

Must we forgive our brethren, in order to be forgiven by the Father? And, if not forgiven ourselves, how can we make it to Heaven?

Jesus told us unless we eat His Body and drink His Blood, we have no life in us. How do we get to Heaven when we have no life in us?

These are just two things we must do. These are born of love for Christ.

Another, if love is greater than faith, and spending eternity in Heaven with God is the greatest thing for us…, then why would faith alone without love be the way to get to Heaven?

God’s grace alone, yes… as our faith alone won’t do it.

**The truth is just as God’s Catholic Church teaches. We are saved by God’s grace, through faith working in love. **

Please go and discuss apologetics and protestantism elsewhere okay.

 

[MDK]

Please go and discuss apologetics and protestantism elsewhere okay.

A little research would show this was a clarification where one had lumped Catholicism and Islam in the same bucket as works-based religions. It clouds this thread’s discussion to allow that kind of false understanding. So, the post was not done with the intent of discussing “apologetics and protestantism,” as it did not start something new about Protestantism, but rejected a false claim on this actual thread, which confused Catholicism with Islam.

Humility Grace, humility will serve you well.

 

[MDK]

A little research would show this was a clarification where one had lumped Catholicism and Islam in the same bucket as works-based religions. It clouds this thread’s discussion to allow that kind of false understanding. So, the post was not done with the intent of discussing “apologetics and protestantism,” as it did not start something new about Protestantism, but rejected a false claim on this actual thread, which confused Catholicism with Islam. Note also, that the word “Protestant” wasn’t even used in this post. It was aimed at false propaganda, which would apply to any false propaganda.

Humility Grace, humility will serve you well.

 

[Agabriel]

… you are wasting your time…

I fear you are correct.

 

[Agabriel]

The problem is that many Christians cherry pick verses from the Koran without providing the full context of the verses. The verses are often fudged verses that they get from Christian right wing sites or neocon Israel firster sites. The Koran never said do not take them as your friends, its said patrons and guardians BESIDES God. The Koran said the same to Muhammad and said the same to Moses. All believers should not take besides God any guardian or patron. the same chapter(5) said the Gospel should be obeyed and followed. The Koran seperates between the Gospel and Christians as I seperate between Muslims and the Koran.

I have to admit many Christians have a pre-conceived notion of the Koran and then cherry pick verses and hide other verses that does not suit their notions. Most of them haven’t even read the Koran. They are almost the same as Sunnis who talk about Christianity and don’t know a thing about the Gospel. Many Christians throw red herrings and force you to try to explain verse by verse. Anybody can take things out of context. The Koran has over 6,000 verses and its always the sword verses they quote. And even that they quote a verse but not after it or a verse and not before it and sometimes they quote half a verse.

They rely on ignorance of the reader or readers who like what they hear. You quoted half of verse 2-191 and thats not ethical and its dishonest:

190.** Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors**

2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; **but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. **

1. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
2. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression

Very dishonest.

The problem with your interpretation vs her interpretation is very little. And the reason due to you quoting more verses just show us that if one stops fighting and accepts subjugation - then that is ok too. In other words, just as long as one selects either death, conversion or subjugation - then all is ok in a Muslim’s mind/world.

So much for tolerance. So much for peace.

So, basically there has been nothing taken out of context.

We have read these types of excuses before to try to explain that we are misinterpreting some passage in the Quran. Sometimes the Muslim/apologist will tell us that it is a story of the time of Muhammed which means that the Quran is not for all people for all times.

Other times the Muslim/apologist will tell us we only take the ‘sword’ verses. Which is ironic since some Muslims will say there are no sword verses, then others will omit the part about abrogation, or deny it - even though it is very clearly stated by Muhammed that abrogation is a-ok.

And then the Muslims will forget that the sword verses are indeed applicable because they consider our lands the ‘lands of war’ and the sword verses - deception, killing, terrorizing, etc - do indeed apply.

Abrogation

Why would we want to discuss verses that are weak, abrogated, or that most Muslims do not use unless they are trying to fool us into thinking that Islam is peaceful? Since this dualism is in Islam we all need to look at the behavior of Muslims worldwide and either they are waging Jihad, supporting Jihad with their wealth and morale/celebrations, and doing nothing about their jihadists other than complaining when they attack fellow Muslims.

 

[MDK]

I fear you are correct.

I second, or now possibly “third” that. Some have been indoctrinated so heavily and with social as well as physical life-threatening pressures that they seem almost inoculated against the truth of the Gospel, but nevertheless may genuinely seek God, their Creator.

This is why the church discusses the possibility of salvation for the invincibly ignorant, as described in CCC 846-848.**846 ** How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

** 847 **This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

** 848 ** “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”