Why do you hate Islam?

[sedonaman]

…
I’d be very interested in knowing exactly what countries actually execute people for becoming Christian. I don’t mean a reference to a book somewhere, but actual behavior. Real deaths…

Why are books verboten if they are based on honest research of facts? Muslims quote the Qur’an, etc. all the time, books that are not based on any researched facts, only their personal beliefs. planten references even his own imagination!

But executing people for changing religions is an interesting issue. If it was wrong for Muslims to execute people for converting to Chistianity, was it wong for Christians to execute people for following non-Christian beliefs? Aquinas said it was OK to execute heretics.

Wait a minute. How convenient for Muslims to have Christianity to bring down to Islam’s level. This thread is about Islam. The question is whether or not Islam prescribes the death penalty for apostasy. Since apostasy is not the same as heresy, the question of what Aquinas said about heretics is doubly irrelevant.

 

[antinwo]

Most pakistanis(and Muslims) are unaware of the Media Censoring by the government which spreads lies about India,Israel and USA.Most of the Pakistanis believe 9/11 and 26/11 are dramas pre planned by “zionists”.they are living in denial.I dedicate below article for them

jihadwatch.org/archives/011956.php
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/002680.php
sheikyermami.com/2009/04/04/india-media-censors-jihad-outbreak-in-mysore/

brusselsjournal.com/node/1145

mailatimes.com/2009/06/15/zaid-hamid-declares-end-of-conspiracy-theories/

911 was a inside job

 

[bobzills]

Was it OK in the past? If so, might it be OK at some future time? Under what conditions?

This is something I am not sure about. I have read the apologies for it, and it looks to me like the Catholic Church has changed its teaching on this point.

 

[bobzills]

911 was a inside job

In what sense? Inside New York? Or inside where?

 

[sedonaman]

911 was a inside job

Therefore we should love Islam? Not only is this a non-sequitur, but it could not be much more off-topic. Gimme a break.

 

[WillieWonka]

“By that statement I would say you agree we have a very huge problem.”

No. What’s the problem?

“Why are books verboten if they are based on honest research of facts? Muslims quote the Qur’an, etc. all the time, books that are not based on any researched facts, only their personal beliefs. planten references even his own imagination!”

I asked what country actually executed apostates, and you answered with books? OK. Everybody quotes a bunch of drivel all the time, much of it not based on facts. Muslims do it because it appears to be a universal human condition. American Christians do it, too. Indian Hindus do it. British athiests do it. Al Gore even thinks the oceans will rise twenty-two feet in fifty years.

“Wait a minute. How convenient for Muslims to have Christianity to bring down to Islam’s level. This thread is about Islam. The question is whether or not Islam prescribes the death penalty for apostasy. Since apostasy is not the same as heresy, the question of what Aquinas said about heretics is doubly irrelevant.”

Of course it’s convenient. And easy. If a Christian joins a movement considered heretical, he is leaving the Roman Church and taking up another religion. In fact, I think they help him along with excommunication. That’s apostasy. Apparently Christianity prescribed the death penalty for apostasy for many years.

It’s always good to look at the context of historical development. Islam emerged in a Christian, pagan, and Jewish environment. Looking at how other people treated apostasy is just doing good history.

“If he wrote it was okay that heretics are killed and the clergy listened to this anti-christian teaching then thats their problem.”

Does that mean the Church was anti-Christian, and it was wrong to kill heretics?

 

[jakasaki]

“By that statement I would say you agree we have a very huge problem.”

No. What’s the problem?

“Why are books verboten if they are based on honest research of facts? Muslims quote the Qur’an, etc. all the time, books that are not based on any researched facts, only their personal beliefs. planten references even his own imagination!”

I asked what country actually executed apostates, and you answered with books? OK. Everybody quotes a bunch of drivel all the time, much of it not based on facts. Muslims do it because it appears to be a universal human condition. American Christians do it, too. Indian Hindus do it. British athiests do it. Al Gore even thinks the oceans will rise twenty-two feet in fifty years.

“Wait a minute. How convenient for Muslims to have Christianity to bring down to Islam’s level. This thread is about Islam. The question is whether or not Islam prescribes the death penalty for apostasy. Since apostasy is not the same as heresy, the question of what Aquinas said about heretics is doubly irrelevant.”

Of course it’s convenient. And easy. If a Christian joins a movement considered heretical, he is leaving the Roman Church and taking up another religion. In fact, I think they help him along with excommunication. That’s apostasy. Apparently Christianity prescribed the death penalty for apostasy for many years.

It’s always good to look at the context of historical development. Islam emerged in a Christian, pagan, and Jewish environment. Looking at how other people treated apostasy is just doing good history.

“If he wrote it was okay that heretics are killed and the clergy listened to this anti-christian teaching then thats their problem.”

Does that mean the Church was anti-Christian, and it was wrong to kill heretics?

Can you please use the **proper “quote” icon **when writting a reply to someone’s posts or if you are repling to multiple posts.

It hard to follow who’s who and what’s what. What’s yours and what’s been posted…

Thanks

 

[jakasaki]

911 was a inside job

Duh… you know you are right… a bunch of Catholic monks with Arabic names got together and flew the planes at the towers (et al)…because they were bored… oh wait… no… it was the Jews…ohhhh… better yet… it was a bunch of chefs who had restaurants on the towers and wanted insurance money… no… it was a bunch of Christians…

Oh man… what was I thinking!!!

I lost 37 friends and associates that day and this number does not include our neighbors sons and daughters - I was there dude/dudette - …don’t get me started poster…

Inside job and hey, you know what, Lincoln wasn’t shot in the theater… he really wanted out of the White House, so there was a “double” who looked like Lincoln.

And guess what, Lincoln, traveled to India where he lived to be 120 years old and is buried there.

 

[sedonaman]

…
I asked what country actually executed apostates, and you answered with books? …

I didn’t answer with books. I merely asked why they are disqualified as references. Can’t you read and comprehend? [Perhaps that’s why books are unacceptable?]

So, anyway, if books are no good, what kind of references are acceptable to you? The latest CAIR-approved TV “documentary”?

… If a Christian joins a movement considered heretical, he is leaving the Roman Church and taking up another religion. In fact, I think they help him along with excommunication. That’s apostasy.

Pure, utter bean dip. By using the terms interchangeably, you are confusing heresy with apostasy. In fact, this last statement equates the two. Apostasy is simply leaving the faith. Individuals are not excommunicated for apostasy. In fact, the Church teaches that if one is convinced Catholicism does not teach the truth, he has an obligation to seek the truth elsewhere. Heresy is “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas.” These are excommunicated, and rightfully so. [Note: **Both types may be reconciled with the Church by repenting.]

Better go back to your chocolate factory.

 

[jakasaki]

I didn’t answer with books. I merely asked why they are disqualified as references. Can’t you read and comprehend? [Perhaps that’s why books are unacceptable?]

So, anyway, if books are no good, what kind of references are acceptable to you? The latest CAIR-approved TV “documentary”?

Pure, utter bean dip. By using the terms interchangeably, you are confusing heresy with apostasy. In fact, this last statement equates the two. Apostasy is simply leaving the faith. Individuals are not excommunicated for apostasy. In fact, the Church teaches that if one is convinced Catholicism does not teach the truth, he has an obligation to seek the truth elsewhere. Heresy is “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas.” These are excommunicated, and rightfully so. [Note: **Both

types may be reconciled with the Church by repenting.]

Better go back to your chocolate factory.

 

[sedonaman]

Duh… you know you are right… a bunch of Catholic monks with Arabic names got together and flew the planes at the towers (et al)…because they were bored… oh wait… no… it was the Jews…ohhhh… better yet… it was a bunch of chefs who had restaurants on the towers and wanted insurance money… no… it was a bunch of Christians…

Oh man… what was I thinking!!!

I lost 37 friends and associates that day and this number does not include our neighbors sons and daughters - I was there dude/dudette - …don’t get me started poster…

Inside job and hey, you know what, Lincoln wasn’t shot in the theater… he really wanted out of the White House, so there was a “double” who looked like Lincoln.

And guess what, Lincoln, traveled to India where he lived to be 120 years old and is buried there.

Here all along, I thought it was Cheney acting on orders from George Bush. The Lincoln “double” story sounds a lot like the one about Jesus’ double on the cross. I suppose Lincoln is buried somewhere near where Jesus was, too!.

I know this is way off-topic that I keep harping others about, but this is way too much to resist.

 

[jakasaki]

Here all along, I thought it was Cheney acting on orders from George Bush. The Lincoln “double” story sounds a lot like the one about Jesus’ double on the cross. I suppose Lincoln is buried somewhere near where Jesus was, too!.

I know this is way off-topic that I keep harping others about, but this is way too much to resist.

This thread has reached 1025+ posts so I’m sure it will be locked soon.

Yes, Lincoln is buried next to Jesus and Mother Mary in India…

And yes SedonaMan - my post was OT but that line about “911 being an inside job” got to me.

Happy 4th America and May God continue to you in His Hands!

 

[antinwo]

I don’t hate Islam; I hate radical Islam that calls America the “Greak Satan” and flies 747’s into buildings. Regular Muslims are by and large good folks just like the rest of us.

911 was a inside job

 

[antinwo]

Duh… you know you are right… a bunch of Catholic monks with Arabic names got together and flew the planes at the towers (et al)…because they were bored… oh wait… no… it was the Jews…ohhhh… better yet… it was a bunch of chefs who had restaurants on the towers and wanted insurance money… no… it was a bunch of Christians…

Oh man… what was I thinking!!!

I lost 37 friends and associates that day and this number does not include our neighbors sons and daughters - I was there dude/dudette - …don’t get me started poster…

Inside job and hey, you know what, Lincoln wasn’t shot in the theater… he really wanted out of the White House, so there was a “double” who looked like Lincoln.

And guess what, Lincoln, traveled to India where he lived to be 120 years old and is buried there.

There were no hijacked planes on 911.

 

[antinwo]

Nobody denies that there are good and bad people in the North, East, West, and South.
And most bad people were originally good, but became bad due to external influences not completely of their making, and it is possible as well as necessary to try to make them good and save them from their misery.
But some people (like the Germans under the Nazis, Russians and Chinese under the Communists, and Muslims in Islamic countries, ) are trapped (like Satan traps evil souls in Hell).
The governments or authorities in these cases will not allow truth, or light to enter into their traps, or allow the trapped people to leave their traps and get saved.
In all these cases, we can notice that Satan (unlike GOD who gives us freedom) always reduces the freedom of their subjects. They believe that their subjects have no brains and that they should blindly obey their captors. In all these cases, they use lies, coersion, and punishments to keep the people from knowing or even thinking about the outside world.
I would have agreed with what you said, if the Islamic countries (who are advanced tecnologically, have modern roads, and buildings, even having computers, TV, automobiles, etc. and having more money than they could spend, ) had freedom of press, could chose their religion, could build places of worship like church or synagogue. Instead, their e-mails are screened, internet sites are blocked, books and newspapers are censored, or not allowed to be imported, they are not allowed to wear clothes of their choice etc. etc. In short, they are trapped. They are slaves to some evil power who believes that their subjects are imbeciles and do not know to choose right from wrong.
Even when God has given Man the right to CHOOSE Right or Wrong, why is it that a bunch of perverted Mullas are allowed to dictate to the rest of the people what clothes to wear, or which God to pray to?
Will you be allowed to make a posting (like the one we are making here) in Saudi Arabia? To me, driving big cars or having an LCD TV or a computer is less important than having my freedom to choose My GOD, my newspaper, or books to read.
The day (be it because of Islamic terrorists, or Nazis or Communists) these freedoms are denied in America, Europe or other free places, we can say that the forces of Satan has prevailed against those of GOD on this earth.
But we should try to save the trapped people from Satan, not only for them, but also for ourselves. If you have a poor neighbor who is infected with Swine Flu, it will be in your interest to give him money, and get him treated, because if you don’t you will become the next victim.
Let us pray to GOD, (maker of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Communists, Nazis etc) that good things like Life, Truth, Love, Forgiveness, etc, will overcome the Death, Destruction, Lies, Hatred, and Punishments that are being totted around in the world by some misguided people.

Listern to Alex Jones

 

[jakasaki]

There were no hijacked planes on 911.

Pater noster, qui es in caelis:
sanctificetur Nomen Tuum;
adveniat Regnum Tuum;
fiat voluntas Tua,
sicut in caelo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie;
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
Sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
sed libera nos a Malo.

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς·
ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου·
ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου·
γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου, ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς·
τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον·
καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν,
ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφίεμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν·
καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν,
ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ.
Ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν.]

:byzsoc: :knight1:

 

[WillieWonka]

“Can you please use the proper “quote” icon when writting a reply to someone’s posts or if you are repling to multiple posts.”

Sure. If there is a better way to do it that’s fine. I’m unfamiliar with this system, so can you elaborate a bit?

 

[WillieWonka]

*"I didn’t answer with books. I merely asked why they are disqualified as references. Can’t you read and comprehend? [Perhaps that’s why books are unacceptable?]

So, anyway, if books are no good, what kind of references are acceptable to you? The latest CAIR-approved TV “documentary”?"*

Let me elaborate. By books, I was referring to a law book or a religious text that mandated some policy. So, a nation may have a law mandating death for apostasy, but if it is never actually carried out, then I wouldn’t say that country executed apostates.

I’d look for references in news wires or newspapers. For example, each execution in Saudi Arabia is posted in the newspaper with a summary of the crime and the findings of the court. That would be a record of actual events. I think there is a tendency for people to look at law and religious text and presume they are really enforced.

I would trust neither a CAIR documentary nor a Catholic League documentary. Both groups are agenda driven and as such their assertions often lack any bass in fact.

So, I ask again. Where are apostates actually executed?

 

[WillieWonka]

“Heresy is “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas.” These are excommunicated, and rightfully so. [Note: Both types may be reconciled with the Church by repenting.]”

OK. Did Christians execute heretics? And if they did, was it proper to do so? If so, then we should apply the same standards to Muslims who execute apostates.

If it was wrong for Christians to execute hetretics, then we can ask why and again apply those same standards to Muslims. We should not ignore the wealth of knowledge we can discern from an examination of our own history.

 

[bobzills]

There were no hijacked planes on 911.

I read in the news that there were. How do you know definitively that the news reports were wrong?