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Agabriel
Guest
Basically koranist is taking the word, ‘unbelievers’, and changing it to ‘pagans’. It is a ‘crock’. (do we all have the same meaning for ‘crock’?)
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koranist
Guest
It does say pagans when it talks in chapter 9. Many websites are neocons websites or Israel firsters websites. They fudge a lot of verses. Anyways that is not the issue, the issue is what were those wars for. And why they occurred. But many people here rely on ideological websites that fudge or distort for their own ideological reasons.
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koranist
Guest
The abrogation of Quranic verses, arguably the greatest lie against the Quran, was originally invented during the fourth century A.H. (late 10th century A.D.) by some Muslim scholars notably Ahmed Bin Ishaq Al-Dinary (died 318 A.H.), Mohamad Bin Bahr Al-Asbahany (died 322 A.H.), Hebat Allah Bin Salamah (died 410 A.H.) and Mohamad Bin Mousa Al-Hazmy (died 548 A.H.), whose book about Al-Nasekh and Al-Mansoukh is regarded as one of the leading references in the subject.
According to this concept, it is claimed that some verses in the Quran are abrogated and invalidated by other verses!
The verse that is the abrogator they call (Al-Nasekh) while the abrogated verse they call (Al-Mansoukh).
These scholars have come up with hundreds of cases of abrogated verses to the extent that they have formulated a whole science of the subject filling lengthy books and references.
quran-islam.org/89.html
This is a Koranist website
According to this concept, it is claimed that some verses in the Quran are abrogated and invalidated by other verses!
The verse that is the abrogator they call (Al-Nasekh) while the abrogated verse they call (Al-Mansoukh).
These scholars have come up with hundreds of cases of abrogated verses to the extent that they have formulated a whole science of the subject filling lengthy books and references.
quran-islam.org/89.html
This is a Koranist website
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Agabriel
Guest
OOOOH, now blame it on the ‘neocons’ and Jews. Earth to… :takeoff:
Tell me out of these guys who is the ‘neocon’ and who is the Jew so we got this straight:
Pickthall
Ahmed Ali
Shakir
Yusuf Ali
Actually, it refers to pagans, disbelievers, polytheists (who the Muslims claim that we Christians are).
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sedonaman
Guest
So are these:
AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3.htm
The Qur’an on Naskh web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s1.htm
How it came about web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s3.htm
Why it is important web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s4.htm
What is abrogated web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s5.htm
Three Kinds of Naskh in the Qur’an web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s6.htm
The Abrogated Verses web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s7.htm
Abrogation and Specification web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_quran/Ch5S3s8.htm
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Agabriel
Guest
It sounds like even some Muslims couldn’t handle the contradictions within the Quran.
Then this is just more proof the Quran is not the word of any god, it has been corrupted. Because in the Quran it has this sentence (shown are the 5 translations):
So, are you saying that someone added that?
I have to go back to someone saying this: I wouldn’t leave the salvation of my soul to such a muddled book as the Quran. I want a God that knows of our human abilities and to tell me exactly what it is I need for the salvation of my soul. The Quran is not only muddled, but filled with too much hatred for people I live with on this earth. And it even has a god that doesn’t like half of its human creations, and some of the animals it has created (pigs, dogs). That god doesn’t even sound like a god to me, but something that spreads ‘hate and discontent’ among us.
And last but not least, it has a god that is deceptive, likes to create things just to throw them in hell and was way too concerned with Muhammed’s sexual life (or perversions
).
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koranist
Guest
Then go to the GospelIt sounds like even some Muslims couldn’t handle the contradictions within the Quran.
Then this is just more proof the Quran is not the word of any god, it has been corrupted. Because in the Quran it has this sentence (shown are the 5 translations):
So, are you saying that someone added that?
I have to go back to someone saying this: I wouldn’t leave the salvation of my soul to such a muddled book as the Quran. I want a God that knows of our human abilities and to tell me exactly what it is I need for the salvation of my soul. The Quran is not only muddled, but filled with too much hatred for people I live with on this earth. And it even has a god that doesn’t like half of its human creations, and some of the animals it has created (pigs, dogs). That god doesn’t even sound like a god to me, but something that spreads ‘hate and discontent’ among us.
And last but not least, it has a god that is deceptive, likes to create things just to throw them in hell and was way too concerned with Muhammed’s sexual life (or perversions
5.46-47. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. **Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. **
So let the Gospel judge between us, or are you one of those Christians the Koran warns against?
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jakasaki
Guest
Geez - enough already - Oy Vey - we’ve been through this passage on soooooo manyyyyy threadssssssss.Then go to the Gospel
5.46-47. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. **Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. **
So let the Gospel judge between us, or are you one of those Christians the Koran warns against?
It’s hard when a newbie comes on CAF only to repeat and repeat and repeat posts and replies.
Good day and God Bless -
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Agabriel
Guest
Since Muhammed was a paranoid (besides other things), probably. I don’t find anything ‘light’, or ‘guiding’, in the Quran unless I wanted to just go out and hate everyone - terrorize them - and do other things to them that I won’t mention here.Then go to the Gospel
5.46-47. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. **Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. **
So let the Gospel judge between us, or are you one of those Christians the Koran warns against?
The other stuff that was plagiarized from the Bible isn’t even that particularly ‘light’ or ‘guiding’ - it is just a bunch of stories that were all messed up in the retelling of them. With the ‘oral word’ being so depended on in the Middle East, especially if one couldn’t read or write - Muhammed couldn’t even do that correctly and retell those stories correctly!
Instead he just said what is in surah 2:106.It is just sloppy. Oh, and BTW - that wasn’t a gospel that you quoted - it was a surah. If you want to quote a gospel then tell me the Chapter and verse - not a Quranic surah.
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MDK
Guest
This is a popular phrase among Mohammadeans, as is “We love Jesus more than Christians.”
In truth, it is among the most ignorant of statements. It is first of all ignorant of Who Christ claimed Himself to be. He claimed that He was and is God. We believe Him, and so believe this as well. So, to say Jesus was simply a prophet and nothing more is to blaspheme.
One must ask, how is blaspheming Jesus as the Mohammadeans do, showing more love for God? It is simply part of the how out of touch with reality adherents to Islam find themselves. Jesus as part of the Holy Trinity didn’t create you to be like this. If you love Jesus truly, you will worship Him. Anything less is blasphemy.
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planten
Guest
Why do you hate Islam?
So you are inventing a new religion. You are to be blamed. Ask any Learned Jew of today if they were expecting a god on the earth. They will deny it. Jesus was a Jew. he was all for the Jews. It is nothing to do with any christian. It is a matter for the Jews and they will give their decision about Jesus. Thanks**.
Whether it was the true blame or false case they put upon Jesus, that is beside the point. But the act of making a god out of a man is blasphemy even according to the bibleOT. It is same in the Quran. If you consider Jesus as a God, you are committing a sin of the highest order, according to Islam (And I hope according to the Jewish law too.) So please see. Where do you stand?**
** MDK, At least we do not abuse Jesus and his mother like the christians do to Muhammad.**
**There is no blasphmy if we call a man as a prophet. Nobody knew Jesus as a god. Abraham did not know him as a god. Moses did not know Jesus as a god. All the prophets of the Jews did not know that jesus was coming as a god. Jesus mother did not know that she gave birth to a god. Jesus was not genearlly worshipped as god. Most of his people knew Jesus as a prophet. this is written in the bibleNT.
So you are inventing a new religion. You are to be blamed. Ask any Learned Jew of today if they were expecting a god on the earth. They will deny it. Jesus was a Jew. he was all for the Jews. It is nothing to do with any christian. It is a matter for the Jews and they will give their decision about Jesus. Thanks**.
It is the reverse of what you have said above. We consider you as blasphmers when you make a god out of the mere man- Jesus. It is exactly like the Jews of the time of Jesus. They considered Jesus a blasphemer. We feel same about the christians. The proof is written in the bibleNT. Jesus was accused of blasphemy by the high ranking Jews. **
Whether it was the true blame or false case they put upon Jesus, that is beside the point. But the act of making a god out of a man is blasphemy even according to the bibleOT. It is same in the Quran. If you consider Jesus as a God, you are committing a sin of the highest order, according to Islam (And I hope according to the Jewish law too.) So please see. Where do you stand?**
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Agabriel
Guest
You, planten, have tried to denigrate Jesus quite often when you are not happy about something someone has said.
We use your own texts when we talk about Muhammed. Where do you think we get this stuff from? Unfortunately for you, your texts are full of what we say. The things you don’t like are usually repeated quite often in the Quran, hadith and Sira.
Here is something that you might find novel… let everyone practice what religion they want to practice. If they want to change - let them. If they worship a black stone because they believe it has a conscious and will speak for them at the day of Judgement - then let them.
We do that to you and Muslims.
unfortunately, when you start calling us names such as pigs, apes, polytheists, blasphemers - because your texts/Prophet has directed its adherents to do such a thing- Muslims think it is their ‘good deed’ to kill or subjugate us.
We can’t sit back and let Muslims tell untruths, (taqiyya/kithman about Islam to others. We have to tell the truth so anyone who isn’t familiar with islam and their taqiyya/kithman knows that it is common for them to not tell us the full truth, and sometimes just outright lead us astray.
It is called mutual respect, but when a religion says to its adherents not only to deceive us, but to not tolerate us, then there is a problem with that. And the proof is in the behavior when the Muslims gain a majority in a land. The persecution of Christians, and Jews, usually start well before that though.
Muslims are not used to having their religion questioned and quite frankly, you will have to get over it. We are learning about Islam and realizing that it is filled with things you don’t want to hear from us. You will have to get over that too. It is all in your Quran and other texts.
Here is a glaring example of the differences in the Islamic world and the Jewish culture. Jewish child and a Muslim child
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bengland
Guest
I have been contacted by Muslims on Youtube that have abused Jesus and Mary by describing in vivid detail their bodily functions in an attempt to impose their own subjective idea of filthiness upon them. It’s utterly repulsive. If a Christian diplomat were to use the same sort of language with Mohammad Muslims in some parts of the world would riot.
Whether you have done this or not, I do not know, but it happens all too frequently.
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planten
Guest
**bengland, if any Muslim says even a bad word against Jesus or his mother, he is not a Muslim. That is a fact. i do not deny what you said. there may be such foolish Muslim persons who disrespet jesus. But surely they become a kaafir the moment they say a word of disrespect.
Muhammad never taught such bad things. Just a short remark for the other christian posters, there is mention of Monkeys and apes and swines for some very bad people (of the book) in the Quran. But please do not forget that jesus also abused with bad words the Pharisees and other Jews of his time. He called them sons of vipers etc.
**
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pjk123
Guest
reply to the original post and I will rather say the things frankly 
:
A Letter To Mankind
I Hate Islam.but not Muslims.I felt Muslims as those poor souls who are sadly brainwashed for the pagan moon god called allah.
I hate Islam for ,it is NOT a religion ,but a cult.Islam is all about a prophet who conducts Hypocrisies and the so called god allah who pardens this prophet.I felt Islam is the same as Nazism.
Islam brainwashes that infidels are waging war on them ,while the truth is Islam and its jehad which is the cost of what today’s world faces as Terrorism.Islam survives on HATE of Other Religions.Islam’s Holy Book Koran Promotes Terror and Dictates Personal Life of Every Muslim to follow sharia and other laws Moslems living in paranoia and resulting OCD.
I will go with faithfreedom.org 's appeal.I have learned that Apostate from Islam is a tough nut to crack.I think Catholic Church Should Device a system where by Moslems can leave their cult and join Catholic Church and Practice the faith secretly.I hope Our Lord Will save this world from this cult.pray for not a World War III is not needed to eliminate Islam from this world.
Please Save the World from World Domination Ideas of Wrong Cults:
faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm
faithfreedom.org/oped/sina70723.htm
:A Letter To Mankind
I Hate Islam.but not Muslims.I felt Muslims as those poor souls who are sadly brainwashed for the pagan moon god called allah.
I hate Islam for ,it is NOT a religion ,but a cult.Islam is all about a prophet who conducts Hypocrisies and the so called god allah who pardens this prophet.I felt Islam is the same as Nazism.
Islam brainwashes that infidels are waging war on them ,while the truth is Islam and its jehad which is the cost of what today’s world faces as Terrorism.Islam survives on HATE of Other Religions.Islam’s Holy Book Koran Promotes Terror and Dictates Personal Life of Every Muslim to follow sharia and other laws Moslems living in paranoia and resulting OCD.
I will go with faithfreedom.org 's appeal.I have learned that Apostate from Islam is a tough nut to crack.I think Catholic Church Should Device a system where by Moslems can leave their cult and join Catholic Church and Practice the faith secretly.I hope Our Lord Will save this world from this cult.pray for not a World War III is not needed to eliminate Islam from this world.
Please Save the World from World Domination Ideas of Wrong Cults:
faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm
Read Here Complete article:
faithfreedom.org/oped/sina70723.htm
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Agabriel
Guest
VERY interesing article. When I got to the part of the young Musim girl hating - mostly herself - it reminded me that the true victims of Islam are the Muslims themselves. The fear is all within them. And the twisting of everything bad into good has made her a paranoid schizoid. And that is what Muhammed was along with being a narcissist.reply to the original post and I will rather say the things frankly
A Letter To Mankind
I Hate Islam.but not Muslims.I felt Muslims as those poor souls who are sadly brainwashed for the pagan moon god called allah.
I hate Islam for ,it is NOT a religion ,but a cult.Islam is all about a prophet who conducts Hypocrisies and the so called god allah who pardens this prophet.I felt Islam is the same as Nazism.
Islam brainwashes that infidels are waging war on them ,while the truth is Islam and its jehad which is the cost of what today’s world faces as Terrorism.Islam survives on HATE of Other Religions.Islam’s Holy Book Koran Promotes Terror and Dictates Personal Life of Every Muslim to follow sharia and other laws Moslems living in paranoia and resulting OCD.
I will go with faithfreedom.org 's appeal.I have learned that Apostate from Islam is a tough nut to crack.I think Catholic Church Should Device a system where by Moslems can leave their cult and join Catholic Church and Practice the faith secretly.I hope Our Lord Will save this world from this cult.pray for not a World War III is not needed to eliminate Islam from this world.
Please Save the World from World Domination Ideas of Wrong Cults:
faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm
Read Here Complete article:
faithfreedom.org/oped/sina70723.htm
They try to put that fear onto us with their terror, torture and murder - but that is only if we accept that fear.
The whole thing is pathetic - a whole religion with so many people trapped into it if they don’t have the will, or way, to leave it.
How often have we on these threads experienced this from the muslims:
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athair_siochain
Guest
The greatest evil , the greatest wrong was committed by the CHOSEN PEOPLE ,
Barabas was their CHOSEN ONE, and they deny CHRIST existed, the Muslims would have never chosen a murdering thief,
ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN ON JUDGEMENT DAY,
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a_priori
Guest
I don’t hate Islam per se. I just have a problem with Muslims beheading young girls because they were raped, chopping off body parts, throwing acid on girls who wish to merely go to school. If you’re a nice Muslim, or Hindu or milkman or bass player, I’m fine with you.
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pjk123
Guest
That behaviour was also “recorded” by experts.
We know about islamist’s logic- it goes in circles .**Games Muslims Play
**
thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm
–
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GraceDK
Guest
May I remind you that it was YOU who betrayed, mocked, spat on, whipped, nailed and crucified Yeshua the Messiah… You are the one who sinned and continue to do so. For your sake He died. How many times have you not chosen Barabas over Christ. You hypocrite. Salvation comes from the Jews. Do not boast if through the Mercy of God you, the wild branch, has been adopted onto the olive tree. If your Lord asked you from the Cross to forgive the Jews, then why do you speculate on their judgement…
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