Why do you hate Islam?

[sedonaman]

i have not researched Islam or Mohamed so i am ignorant. but i find it hard to believe such a violent person could set up one of the biggest religions on earth. i am Going to Wikipedia on this one:thumbsup:

HickmanJosh

Here’s an academic critique: biblestudying.net/islam1.html

 

[HickmanJosh]

so the Qur’an was made in a similar manor to that of the Christian New testament, Divinely inspired people write down scriptures and are later organized into a single text?

HickmanJosh

 

[sedonaman]

“If Islam is so evil , God would not allow it to continue”

So why does God allow any evil at all?

therefore, it must have some truth in it …

This is a non-sequitur. How do you know what Allah wills and why?

Explaining the success of Islam, Part 1 .
Explaining the success of Islam, Part 2 .
Explaining the success of Islam, Part 3 .

Mohammed did not win every battle he fought. He won some and lost some. Therefore, “…we conclude from this intensive study that we must reject Islam’s claims… There are two main reasons for this rejection. First, though Islam has historically identifiable origins, these origins do not provide any reason for concluding that Mohammed’s teachings are an accurate view of God, the universe, and mankind. Instead, the circumstances surrounding the origin and rise of Islam can clearly be understood simply as a product of normal human affairs and ambitions.” Islam Conclusions

 

[sedonaman]

i am just trying to get some common ground that both Islam and Catholicism can agree on.

A thousand years ago you would be on a quest for the Holy Grail.

 

[sedonaman]

Worship one God , respect the parents, respect the neighbors and love the orphans, don’t steal, pay charity to the needy , be modest , be kind toward others, forgive others…etc-Hadi

These are all values at the heart of the Christian Church especially forgiveness, are you taking these from Islam?

HickmanJosh

…
Simply ignoring all other religion wont make this world a better place.

Did you know that religion is the smallest part of Islamic foundational texts?

 

[pjk123]

dear ,it is a known thing that Islam is a violent religion due to their religion’s holy book to be precise.it supports violence,slavery,oppression,slaughter ,world under islam and many more ideas.I think ,you need to study more before posting BS here.

faithfreedom.org

 

[sedonaman]

Ok you are taking the actions of a minority and claiming them as the Majority.
…
sorry but it has to be said, far-right wingers are a bad influence.

…

I’m sorry I have to say that you, sir, are advocating that we play with dynamite. You have said,

i have not researched Islam or Mohamed so i am ignorant …

You might start by reading what their leaders are telling us:

Those Muslims who say that Islam counsels against war are deceivers, for deception is mandatory if it advances Islam. Those unbelievers who pretend Islam is peaceful are [to Islam] useful fools. Islam says: “Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!” Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the unbelievers? Islam says: “Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.” Does this mean sitting back until the unbelievers overcome you? Islam says: “Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you!” Does it mean that you should surrender? Islam says: “Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors!” Does this mean that you should turn the other cheek? – Ayatollah Khomeini

“We are not fighting so that you will offer us something; we are fighting to eliminate you.” – Hussein Massawi, former leader of Hezb’allah.

Your whole idea is based on the assumption that men of good will can sit down at a table and talk out their differences. Are you willing to tell the other side, “Here, have half of my assets; let’s have peace.” ? You don’t know what you are dealing with. We didn’t listen when a “Bohemian corporal” wrote his book in which he told us what he was going to do. He was dismissed as a “crackpot” … even after he got into power. The above quotes are not from some crackpot Muslims on the street; they’re from their leaders! When are we going to start listening to what they’re telling us? Because, quite frankly, the world cannot afford to ignore that kind of folly any more.

 

[sedonaman]

** … Not all muslims are jihadis. **

The question we are all struggling with is why all jihadis are Muslim.

 

[Agabriel]

Oh no!. You just hear about someone blowing themselves up every other day and taking a few innocent people with them. Real peaceful religion!.
Where in the Quran does it say that suicide is justified?

Recruitment of suicide bombers surah 4: ‘Those who barter their life in this world for the next should fight in the way of Allah; whether he is killed or victorious, a glorious reward awaits.’ ‘Urge the believers to fight… to keep back the might of the infidels.’ ‘Seize them and kill them wherever they are.’ ‘Muslims who sit idle are not equal to those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives Allah has exalted those who fight for Islam.’

More in surah 4 - ‘Muslims who sit idle are not equal to those who fight in Allah’s cause with their wealth and lives, Allah has exalted those who fight for Islam.’

Why not listen to a former Muslim who was in the PLO? Walid Shoebat explains the mentality of a suicide bomber. Learn what children are taught about dying for Allah’s cause, and how their own parents and community celebrates when they die. They hope they are named as one of the saved along with the one who commits suicide so they can get to Allah’s heaven. This is the only sure way to get to their heaven.

Walid Shoebat Shoebat’s experiences with what he was taught in islam..
Select the program that says, Talking It Over, PART 1 December 13, 2008.

 

[Agabriel]

Did you know that religion is the smallest part of Islamic foundational texts?

sharia law article

Sharia: Islam’s Warden

Some quotes from this article since we are dealing with at least one guy who won’t go to the references - sounds like what I have heard from other Muslims over time on these threads. They don’t go to ‘non-Muslim’ references. (makes me think that maybe we are dealing with a Muslim)

The basic tenets of Sharia emanate with the assumption that Allah has chosen the believers (i.e., the Muslims) to rule the world. It might sound fascistic, but make no mistake: the Qur’an is absolutely determined to hand over the rule of the world to the followers of Islam: more specifically, to the Bedouin Arabs. Because Islam = Arabism. In the Qur’an (3:104, 3:110) Allah says that Arabs are the best of people ever created.

…

FP: So this is why Sharia is the backbone of Islam, right?

Kasem: Yes, it is the heart and soul of Islam. Without Sharia Islam is a toothless tiger or a poisonless snake. Sharia empowers Islam with the legal power to enforce its draconian, barbaric, uncivilized, and cruel provisions. Sharia gives Islam the arms and legs to force the world to submit to Islam.

In many verses of the Koran Allah steadfastly announces that whoever deviates from Sharia is a kafir and he/they must be fought upon (i.e., killed) by the Muslims.

According to ibn Kathir, in verse 2:151, Allah declares that He had sent Muhammad (as a favor) to preach the Qur’an and to teach Sharia laws which the pagans of Mecca did not know

According to verse 4:64 Allah had sent Muhammad to invite people to obey Allah’s orders, that is, Sharia laws.

To provide more fire power, ibn Kathir say that in verse 5:44, Allah declares that whoever does not want to abide by Allah’s law, Sharia, is a kafir. This includes the Christians ( 5:47 ). Mind you, in Islam, a kafir must be fought upon (killed) or forced to submit to Sharia laws.

In verse 9:73 Allah urges the believers (i.e., the Muslims) to make war on unbelievers and hypocrites and show firmness (be harsh) against them. The eminent exegete of the Qur’an, ibn Kathir writes that Allah has commanded the Muslims to fight with sword the disbelievers, to strive against the hypocrites with tongue and has annulled lenient treatment of them. According to ibn Kathir perform with sword jihad against the disbelievers and be harsh with the hypocrites with words; this means establishing Islamic penal laws, i.e. Sharia laws against them. Ibn Kathir further says that verse 9:73 cancels verse 2:256, the so-called verse on ‘no compulsion’ on religion.

Here are few more Qur’anic verses which unambiguously declare the supremacy of Sharia.

Allah will decide by His law (judgment, Sharia) between various sects (between the Jews and the Christians—ibn Abbas)…27:78

Allah is the Law-giver; He has appointed Muhammad to implement the only correct laws (Sharia laws)…45:18

Allah created the heavens and the earth to implement justice to all (Sharia law)…45:22

Muhammad is to strike hard against the unbelievers (fight them with weapons and armaments—ibn Kathir. Fight them with swords—Jalalyn), hypocrites (punish them according to Sharia laws—ibn Kathir) and to be firm (harsh) against them; the abode for the unbelievers and the hypocrites is hell…66:9

The absolute supremacy of Sharia is upheld in the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam (1990). Article 22 of this declaration concludes that all rights and freedoms mentioned are subject to the Islamic Sharia, which is the declaration’s sole source.

The article eventually goes into some of the laws in Sharia.

A Muslim must not be killed for killing an infidel (Hadis and ibn Kathir’s interpretation of verse 5:45 ).

Believers and non-believers are not equal…6:50, 28:61, 32:19, 35:19-22, 38:28, 39:9, 40:58, 45:21, 59:20, 67:22, 68:35

…

Prohibition on polygamy is a violation of Sharia provision. Court does not understand biological need. Follow Muhammad (59:7) (Doi, p.153).

A drop of semen is the greatest sin (Doi, p.236).

Adoption is not allowed in Sharia (Doi, p.463).

…

Kasem: Visiting lavatory—cover head, cover feet, carry stones (odd number, minimum three), and say prayer (e9.1, p.76).

Entering toilet—left foot first; exiting toilet right foot first, offer prayer (e9.1, p.76).

After urinating men squeeze the penis with the left hand from base to head (of penis); women squeeze the front (vulva) between thumb and forefinger; in both cases three times (e9.1(11), p.76).

Do not defecate with front facing the sun, the moon or the sacred in Jerusalem , Kaba (e9.0(16), p.77).

When no water available do wudu, ghusl using dirt (e12.0, p.84).

 

[HickmanJosh]

Ayatollah Khomeini was the leader of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, correct?
That revolution gave birth to a government that Riggs elections, censors media and uses paramilitary forces to suppress dissent. The Position of Supreme Leader was made for a cleric to oversee the nation and make sure all goes with the teachings of Islam. He is elected not by the people but by advisers to the president and other radical clerics, not by the people, how can these be true leaders if they ignore and suppress any opposition. Isent there a big group of Iranians defying the government right now?

As for your Hezbollah guy, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization made to annihilate Israel, oh and you forgot to mention how they recently lost an election in Lebanon to a pro-western party. Obviously the people of Lebanon didn’t like there former leaders.

HickmanJosh

 

[sedonaman]

Ayatollah Khomeini was the leader of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, correct?

a·ya·tol·lah – n. A high-ranking Shiite religious authority regarded as worthy of imitation in matters of religious law and interpretation. – dictionary.com

As for your Hezbollah guy, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization made to annihilate Israel, oh and you forgot to mention how they recently lost an election in Lebanon to a pro-western party. Obviously the people of Lebanon didn’t like there former leaders.

And so Hezbollah magically went away.

For someone who said,

i have not researched Islam or Mohamed so i am ignorant …

you sure are smart.

 

[Agabriel]

Ayatollah Khomeini was the leader of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, correct?
That revolution gave birth to a government that Riggs elections, censors media and uses paramilitary forces to suppress dissent. The Position of Supreme Leader was made for a cleric to oversee the nation and make sure all goes with the teachings of Islam. He is elected not by the people but by advisers to the president and other radical clerics, not by the people, how can these be true leaders if they ignore and suppress any opposition. Isent there a big group of Iranians defying the government right now?

As for your Hezbollah guy, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization made to annihilate Israel, oh and you forgot to mention how they recently lost an election in Lebanon to a pro-western party. Obviously the people of Lebanon didn’t like there former leaders.

HickmanJosh

What is your point?

That due to the upheavel in Iran that Islam is good? That Muhammed didn’t do the atrocities that he did? That violent Jihad against non-Muslims wasn’t waged for centuries?

Lebanon was overrun by Muslims in the 20th Century. They took a Democratic nation and a free people and started a systematic persecution of the Christians there. The lady who organized my group is a Lebonese Maronite Christian who lived through it all. Who saw not only what Hezbollah did to her people and her country, but also what the Palestinians (who were kicked out of Jordan because of their poor behavior) did to her people and country.

They tortured and/or killed her many of her people. And the ground the Muslims gained in her country were helped along by a same sort of thinking people as our left wing liberals in our country.

I say it is good that the Lebonese have finally had it - what took them so long?!?!?

source: Because They Hate (by Brigette Gabriel)
Video of Brigette Gabriel at the TMLC

And a couple of her websites: www.actforamerica.org
and www.americancongressfortruth.com/

I don’t know what you are trying to say in your post though. That even Muslims get sick and tired of their own clerics - what took them so long? The problem is though the basic teachings are still there and until they throw them away they will still be vulnerable.

 

[planten]

The topic is drifting away. It is sure that you all hate Islam. The reason seems to be some wars against the enemies. You have the bibleOT attached as an integral part of your faith. Would you all hate the Jews too for their ruthless killing of innocent men and women and children. Even animals were not spared. Please all look back and hate every fighter.

 

[GraceDK]

The topic is drifting away. It is sure that you all hate Islam. The reason seems to be some wars against the enemies. You have the bibleOT attached as an integral part of your faith. Would you all hate the Jews too for their ruthless killing of innocent men and women and children. Even animals were not spared. Please all look back and hate every fighter.

No Islam without Muhammad.
Was Muhammad a Muslim or an Islamist? This question was rightfully posed
by Wafa Sultan to a socalled moderate Muslim politician the other day at a conference about freedom of media in Copenhagen Denmark.
The fulfilment and true face of God was shown in Jesus Christ. He came with peace and love and an example of holy self giving. He would not even kill a fly.
In Islam Muhammad is the fulfillment and revelation of the will of god manifested in another and contrary example.
Never confuse the good and the bad. Islam has earlier been called Muhammedanism. This is correct because Islam is the interpretation of God made by Muhammad. Just like we trust Christ’s words about God, you trust Muhammad. Beware who you trust.
We critizise Muhammedanism because its full of error and violence. According to the Quran we are all cursed.
So don’t come to us and pretend we are bad, when its your own prophet who was bad. We critizise him like we do Hitler and Stalin and other founders of totalitarian ideologies. If Islam was merely a religion we would have no huge problem with it, although we would find it an error. But now its a supressive ideology which seeks to destroy its critics. So we have to call it what it is.

 

[HickmanJosh]

((you sure are smart. )) thanks, i like to keep tabs on international news. and by ignorant i was saying i haven’t studied Islam.

((And so Hezbollah magically went away.)) well, they didn’t just go away but the people of Lebanon have spoken.

((That violent Jihad against non-Muslims wasn’t waged for centuries?)) What about the crusades? The Spanish inquisition?

My point is every religion goes through rough times, Christianity and Islam included. But to keep on reminding them of the mistakes of there forefathers isent going to Help the problem.

What do our Muslim Friends think about Agabriel's comments on the All the violence in Islam?

HickmanJosh

 

[slyboots]

The topic is drifting away. It is sure that you all hate Islam. The reason seems to be some wars against the enemies. You have the bibleOT attached as an integral part of your faith. Would you all hate the Jews too for their ruthless killing of innocent men and women and children. Even animals were not spared. Please all look back and hate every fighter.

God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

As to a beating, the Holy Prophet [Muhammad] allowed it very reluctantly and even then did not like it. But the fact is that there are certain women who do not mend their ways without a beating. In such a case, the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face, or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body. (vol. 1, p. 333, note 59)

Jesus saves. Muhammad says to hit.Yes, there are things similar to these words in the OT. But we Christians are redeemed by Christ and follow the NT.

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
Christians will cry out to Allah’s “partners”, but they won’t hear them; Allah will send them to their doom. 18:52
Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in? 40:73

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0284:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah observed: By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire

 

[HickmanJosh]

Where does it say we have to hate that which is evil?

and the question still stands, What do our Muslim Friends think about Agabriel’s comments on the All the violence in Islam?

HickmanJosh

 

[Agabriel]

Where does it say we have to hate that which is evil?

and the question still stands, What do our Muslim Friends think about Agabriel’s comments on the All the violence in Islam?

HickmanJosh

Why do you like evil? Or maybe you should explain your comment since it doesn’t make sense to me.

What they think about the violence vs what the facts are - are usually two different things.

We had a thread about ‘Are Muslims ok with Muhammeds actions’ (I paraphrase because I don’t exactly remember the title) and they basically did what they do here and give excuses for his behavior, deny it, deflect onto a different subject, or give tu quoque excuses. Some finally admitted that they were indeed ok with his poor behavior because they don’t look at anything that Muhammed did as being atrocious. They just accept it because they are basically told not to question it. Some of it also goes into their ‘scales being balanced’ for the day. To keep believing in their stuff no matter what. Maybe you should listen to Shoebat’s radio program I already posted.

Unfortunately for you, and them, we are using what are the facts and their own texts to show them what sort of a guy Muhammed was.

It is too bad that you keep wanting to discuss something you don’t have a clue about. Why do you keep doing that and then telling me that I am wrong? Why don’t you find out for yourself? Unless the answer is that you already know and are indeed a Muslim and just trying to bash me while pretending to be a Christian.

Never did Jesus tell us to just be stupid and accept evil. In fact, He faced evil several times and expelled it.

Matthew 7 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

And what did Muhammed offer to his followers: an orgy in heaven of little boys and virgins, wine, food; he told his followers they would get unlimited loot and slaves (that they stole), and what does Jesus do when Lucifer offered that to Him?

Luke 4: 5-8 - "and the devil, taking him [Jesus] up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment

of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them; for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine." And Jesus answered, and said unto him, 'Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written [Deuteronomy 6: 13 - thou shalt fear the LORD thy God - NB - ‘LORD’ in the King James translation usually renders the Divine Name, YHWH,
‘Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve’.

Matthew 4: 8-10, “Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, and saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, 'Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”

The Evil One offers Jesus absolute temporal power, imperium, IF he will ‘fall down and worship me [the Adversary]’. Jesus says No.

Mohammed, on the other hand, essentially says Yes! Right on! and Mohammedans have been grovelling before the Evil One, the Adversary, ever since, selling their souls as slaves of allah, in order to obtain worldly power.

And to that devil’s bargain (which in fact is itself based on a flat-out lie, for according to Hebrew theology, it is YHWH who has the last word, raising up and casting down kings and empires, as we see in the story of Babel, and of the Exodus), other words from the Gospels apply: “what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Matt 16: 26), or Mark 8: 37 - “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”, Luke 9: 23 - “for what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and
lose himself, or be cast away”?

 

[HickmanJosh]

Trust me i didn’t go to a catholic school for nothing, i am saying this because Jesus told us to love our enemies (not saying Islam is our enemy) and if evil is our enemy then …

((Mohammed, on the other hand, essentially says Yes! Right on! and Mohammedans have been grovelling before the Evil One, the Adversary, ever since, selling their souls as slaves of allah, in order to obtain worldly power. ))

This last quote baffles me, your saying Islam is a group of devil worshipers?

Sure Jesus could have been referring to Islam in those scriptures, he could just as easily be referring to Hitler or the Anti-Christ.

((It is too bad that you keep wanting to discuss something you don’t have a clue about. Why do you keep doing that and then telling me that I am wrong? Why don’t you find out for yourself? Unless the answer is that you already know and are indeed a Muslim and just trying to bash me while pretending to be a Christian.))

i know enough about Islam and the world to know that an entire religion can't be based on such a violent man and principles. Even so if Islam where as violent as you claim, would Israel still be in existence?

I have also heard moderate clerics say people of the book ie Judaism and Christianity can still get to heaven and not to harm them or interfere in there affairs, just look at the freedom of religion laws in Iran. i even think they quoted parts of the Quran.

Hickmanjosh