Why do you hate Islam?

[Agabriel]

The left wing liberals have for about 6 years bashed Bush for taking out Saddam and trying to bring peace to Iraq.

I don’t know when this article was written, but it shows many things that us Americans have done - against the continual rants of the left around the world - those very same left wing liberals who would have had no problem just leaving Iraq for the next thug to take over (Iran).

Update in Iraq: Good the Americans have accomplished:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
An interim constitution has been signed.
Girls are allowed to attend school.
Textbooks that don’t mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

 

[bobzills]

The left wing liberals have for about 6 years bashed Bush for taking out Saddam and trying to bring peace to Iraq.

I don’t know when this article was written, but it shows many things that us Americans have done - against the continual rants of the left around the world - those very same left wing liberals who would have had no problem just leaving Iraq for the next thug to take over (Iran).

Update in Iraq: Good the Americans have accomplished:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations. .

These vaccines come from cell lines from aborted fetuses I don;t think it is an accomplishment to go around murdering innocent unborn children and using them to create vaccines.

 

[Agabriel]

These vaccines come from cell lines from aborted fetuses I don;t think it is an accomplishment to go around murdering innocent unborn children and using them to create vaccines.

Let me type this slowly… This… is… a… thread… about… why… you… hate… Islam?

If you want to discuss abortion - start a different thread. I am not going any further with it. You are talking to the ‘choir’ here - I agree with you - but not concerning Islam. That is what I am discussing… Islam.

 

[bobzills]

Let me type this slowly… This… is… a… thread… about… why… you… hate… Islam?

If you want to discuss abortion - start a different thread. I am not going any further with it. .

If that is the issue then why did you bring up the question of immunizations? These immunizations are the result of murdering innocent children. Are we just supposed to belive what you have said here that this is a great good that America has accomplished? The murder of innocent children? We are supposed to say nothing concerning what you have written here and just let it pass? I don;t think I can accept your statement that this is a good that America has accomplished.

Update in Iraq: Good the Americans have accomplished:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations. .

 

[planten]

**HickmanJosh is right, whatever is in the mind of H J is being told. But other Catholic friends are not satisfied with H J. I believe “Love for All, Hatred for None.” Whatever was done in the past centuries ago is bygone. We need not blame the Muslims not blame the christians. We need not abuse Jesus and need not abuse Muhammad.

Whatever is going on now may be discussed gently and peacefully. I can assure you that there are people (Ahmadis) who are being punished for speaking out against Jihaad, for the last 120 years. What they get in return from the Christians?? When the moderate Muslims (Ahmadis included) say that Mullas are wrong about their Jihad (religious war) with weapons, the christians say “No, that is the teaching of Islam.” So the christians support the belief of Jihaad and mislead the poor Muslims all the more…

Islam is all for peace. I have been pointing out that any one may show me any verse of the Quran which exhorts Muslims to kill any peaceful innocent person except those who are enemies on warpath, except those who are killers. They have to be dealt with.

As for as the innocence is concerned, the christians believe that all men and women are sinners by birth and guilty due to inherited sin from Adam and Eve. The christians blame the lady (Eve) for the original sin. Islam does not do that. Islam blames both Adam and Eve. But tells that they both repented and were forgiven. So there is no sin left. After forgiveness by God, no sin remains.

So according to the Quran, no one is a born sinner.

We do not blame the christians about their beliefs. But we Muslims cannot agree (endorse) those beliefs. And we do not abuse Jesus or his mother. But the christians take delight to hate and defame Muhammad in one way or the other. Still they are the pious people.**

 

[slyboots]

These vaccines come from cell lines from aborted fetuses I don;t think it is an accomplishment to go around murdering innocent unborn children and using them to create vaccines.

Good grief Bob. We all agree abortion is wrong.
This thread is “why do you hate Islam?”. Not “why is America is immoral”. Get your own thread please if that’s all you want to talk about.

And Planten,

Planten:

Islam is all for peace. I have been pointing out that any one may show me any verse of the Quran which exhorts Muslims to kill any peaceful innocent person except those who are enemies on warpath, except those who are killers. They have to be dealt with."

Many verses of the Quran have been shown to you here inciting Mohammed’s followers to murder those who are non-Muslim. Please stop acting as if you never saw them. Everyone else who has followed the thread has read them here.

Planten, Bob, Elwill I will pray for you tonight before I sleep. I will pray that you are able to see that Jesus Christ died for you. That he redeemed your sinful souls. And that He is God.

 

[bobzills]

Good grief Bob. We all agree abortion is wrong.
This thread is “why do you hate Islam?”. Not “why is America is immoral”. Get your own thread please if that’s all you want to talk about…

Immunisations in Iraq was brought up by someone else. Why should I answer that person in another thread, if it was brought up here?

 

[koranist]

Even if they reject Mohammed’s teaching entirely?

I believe the poster was repeating their previous point
Thanks

Its not the messenger thats important but the message. The question is why you won’t accept a messenger? Is it because of something about him? We of course have never met any of the prophets so we don’t know them well enough. Or is it because of something about his message? Then you should ask what is it about the message you don’t agrre with.

Mind you the Koran says the Torah and Gospel and Koran are one faith but three communities. Each community and its individuals will be judged according to their adherence with the teachings of the scriptures God gave them.

Chapter 5

43.** But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah**. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.

1. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
2. We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
3. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

47.** Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel**.

1. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute

Thats how I understand it. I accept all the scriptures but most people would consider themselves among a community and follow the teachings of one of them. Its all one faith. The Koran would not order the Jews to follow the Ot and the Christians the Gospel if it did not see them as one. Its obvious that the Koran sees the scriptures as one faith BUT three different communities. Thats God’s plan.

4.13. O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

 

[ZAKI]

Now. Please tell me one person who kills raped or made porn movies in the name of Jesus? I heard of no one for centuries… and the ones who did commit immoral things we are not afraid to say they did so, because they did not imitate Jesus.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Steele#Religion
gossiprocks.com/forum/faith-religion/136-interview-christian-porn-star.html

wasalam

 

[planten]

.

And Planten,

Many verses of the Quran have been shown to you here inciting Mohammed’s followers to murder those who are non-Muslim. Please stop acting as if you never saw them. Everyone else who has followed the thread has read them here.

Planten, Bob, Elwill I will pray for you tonight before I sleep. I will pray that you are able to see that Jesus Christ died for you. That he redeemed your sinful souls. And that He is God.

**slyboots, there is no verse in the Quran to kill any innocent peaceful person of any faith. The case of a Kaafir is different. Kaafir is a manifest enemy of all faiths. There were kaafirs in the time of Moses. That was the King Pharoah and his hosts.

There were kaafirs in the time of Jesus too. They were the enemies of Jesus who got Jesus arrested and put on the cross. That was a bad treatment of a one who was sent by God, for the welfare of his own people.

I am sure you cannot show me any verse of the Quran without the word Kaafir who may be fought and killed. Any peaceful person of any faith is not to be disturbed by the Muslims. Even though they do not believe in Muhammad, and if they remain peaceful in their own faith , and they do not take up arms against Islam, there is no harm to them.

So your theory of “Many verses of the Quran have been shown to you here inciting Mohammed’s followers to murder those who are non-Muslim” is all wrong. I would request you not to go on that track unless you have personally checked the verses of the Quran in Arabic.**

 

[planten]

**Post #686 of the Koranist is very good. It proves that Quran acceptes the Gospel and the Torah. The Prophet wished that the Jews and the christians follow their own revealed book. We also respect the BibleOT and NT as useful as much as they can be. We do not mind if christians believe:

1. Every one is a born sinner, including Mary.
2. Only Jesus is not a sinner.
3. Abraham and Moses and david and all prophets were sinners.
4. Jesus is son of God.
5. Jesus is God.
   ( More: Jesus is a man. Jesus is a son of man. Jesus is a prophet of God.)
6. Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind.
7. Jesus took away the sins of the sinners.
8. There are three gods in One God.
9. There is One God composed of three different entities.
10. Jesus ws born without a human father.
11. Mary was sinless (?)
12. Mary was virgin forever even afte rgiving birth to Jesus.
13. Mary did not have any other child except Jesus.

List could be quite long. We do not mind about any of the above beliefs of the christians. They have their beliefs and Muslims have their own beliefs. Each one of us can move in our own circles without discreditting the others, without abusing the seniors of each faith.**

 

[HickmanJosh]

**slyboots, there is no verse in the Quran to kill any innocent peaceful person of any faith. The case of a Kaafir is different. Kaafir is a manifest enemy of all faiths. There were kaafirs in the time of Moses. That was the King Pharoah and his hosts.

There were kaafirs in the time of Jesus too. They were the enemies of Jesus who got Jesus arrested and put on the cross. That was a bad treatment of a one who was sent by God, for the welfare of his own people.

I am sure you cannot show me any verse of the Quran without the word Kaafir who may be fought and killed. Any peaceful person of any faith is not to be disturbed by the Muslims. Even though they do not believe in Muhammad, and if they remain peaceful in their own faith , and they do not take up arms against Islam, there is no harm to them.

So your theory of “Many verses of the Quran have been shown to you here inciting Mohammed’s followers to murder those who are non-Muslim” is all wrong. I would request you not to go on that track unless you have personally checked the verses of the Quran in Arabic.**

Is there any universal definition of a kaafir?

Every one is a born sinner, including Mary.

Sorry but i must point out Christians believe Mary was conceived without sin, she was and is sinless.

( More: Jesus is a man. Jesus is a son of man. Jesus is a prophet of God.)

Jesus was fully human, his spirit was fully the son of God.

1. Jesus ws born without a human father.

Jesus was conceived in Mary by the power of the Holy spirit after Mary said yes to the angle Gabriel to bear and raise the son of God. She married Joseph. Who was a decedent of David.

Sorry but i just can’t let misconceptions of the church go unchallenged.

Back to Islam, so… the Qur’an Says thouse who are innocent can’t be touched, what is the definition of someone who is innocent?

HickmanJosh

 

[Booklover]

Sorry but i just can’t let misconceptions of the church go unchallenged.

Back to Islam, so… the Qur’an Says thouse who are innocent can’t be touched, what is the definition of someone who is innocent?

HickmanJosh

Very simple! The defininition of “innocent” in Islam applies to Muslims only. No unbeliever is considered “innocent”. That’s why it’s always open season on the rest of us.

Vickie

 

[GraceDK]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Steele#Religion
gossiprocks.com/forum/faith-religion/136-interview-christian-porn-star.html

wasalam

ZAKI:
Your level of links is lower than what I could care to debate with. There is no case. You could find nothing better than this?
I have also met socalled Muslim men who cheated and comitted fornication and adultery. They did not say they did it in the name of allah. So I dont bring them as examples here. However, the videos that i posted for you were serious, they were showing people murdering or preaching hatred etc etc etc… ALL IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. What does hamas call themselves? soldiers for allah and they say the ones who die while killing civilian jewish children go straight to muslim heaven.
I give you another two:
youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58&feature=PlayList&p=AD818FE0D764490C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6
youtube.com/watch?v=up3yuQDAWKQ This is Wafa Sultan again. She was in class one day at medical school. A bunch of soldiers came in and shoot her teacher while they shouted Allah Hu Ackbar. This is a video that makes you cry.

Thats the kind of examples that i asked you to show.
Not some porn star ( I wonder how you know this guy… please as I said. dont watch this stuff… you will loose your soul if you continue) whom according to Christianity is living in death sin and who made his own religion. Neither did he use the Bible to justify himself… rather he said he was aware he was living contrary to Christ.

You really have no case… do you.
You dont have to continue this. We both know the New Testament account of Jesus who was solely good and pure. and the contrast to Muhammad that was violent and impure. Its the blind immitation of him, that we condemn because of the human tragedies of it.
.

 

[sedonaman]

**
slyboots, there is no verse in the Quran to kill any innocent peaceful person of any faith. The case of a Kaafir is different. Kaafir is a manifest enemy of all faiths.
…
I am sure you cannot show me any verse of the Quran without the word Kaafir who may be fought and killed. Any peaceful person of any faith is not to be disturbed by the Muslims. Even though they do not believe in Muhammad, and if they remain peaceful in their own faith , and they do not take up arms against Islam, there is no harm to them.
**

In post # 563 of this thread, I listed some of the events that took place in the 463 years between the death of Mohammed and the calling of the first Crusade, among them,

…
921AD – English pilgrims to Rome crushed to death under rocks rolled down on them by Saracens in the passes of the Alps
…

and in #572 you in reply said,

**Sedonaman, you have created good history for the Muslims. Thanks. …
**

So, you agreed with that history, and in light of that agreement and the rest of what you have said since about “peaceful” non-Muslims are “not to be disturbed by the Muslims” but that “kaafirs” may be killed, please explain to us how English pilgrims in the Alps on their way to Rome fit the definition of “kaafir” as you have used the term. Alternatively, if there is some other non-Muslim category who may also be killed, please explain who they are and why they may be killed.

 

[sedonaman]

Is there any universal definition of a kaafir?

Probably not universal, but Warner says the term is defined by its usage:

The amount of the material in the Trilogy (Koran, Sira, and Hadith) about the kafir is considerable. About 67% of the Koran written in Mecca is about the kafir, 51% of the Koran written in Medina is about the kafir. About 75% of the text in Ishaq’s Sira is about the kafir and 20% of the Hadith (Bukhari) is about the kafir.

Every mention about the kafir is negative. “Kafir” is usually translated as unbeliever, but this is wrong. The word “unbeliever” is neutral. The Koran defines the kafir by its usage and says that the kafir can be killed, hated, punished, raped, mocked, enslaved, plotted against, beheaded, tortured, insulted, condemned, stolen from, deceived, kidnapped, humiliated, and on and on. The Hadith and Sira follow in the same vein. There is no word in the English language that has the negativity of the word kafir.

As a measure of the negativity, it is interesting to observe the Jew hatred. The hatred of Jews accounts for 10.6% of the text written in Medina . As a comparison, 6.8% of the text in Mein Kampf is about Jew hatred.

Even Hell is political. Only 6% of the people in Hell are there for moral failings – theft, lying, and so on. The majority, 94%, of the people in Hell are tortured for the simple reason of not believing Mohammed. That is a political and intellectual disagreement, not a moral failing. Allah’s Hell is a political prison for kafirs.
Unquote.

 

[ZAKI]

ZAKI:
Your level of links is lower than what I could care to debate with. There is no case. You could find nothing better than this?
I have also met socalled Muslim men who cheated and comitted fornication and adultery. They did not say they did it in the name of allah. So I dont bring them as examples here. However, the videos that i posted for you were serious, they were showing people murdering or preaching hatred etc etc etc… ALL IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. What does hamas call themselves? soldiers for allah and they say the ones who die while killing civilian jewish children go straight to muslim heaven.
I give you another two:
youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58&feature=PlayList&p=AD818FE0D764490C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6
youtube.com/watch?v=up3yuQDAWKQ This is Wafa Sultan again. She was in class one day at medical school. A bunch of soldiers came in and shoot her teacher while they shouted Allah Hu Ackbar. This is a video that makes you cry.

Thats the kind of examples that i asked you to show.
Not some porn star ( I wonder how you know this guy… please as I said. dont watch this stuff… you will loose your soul if you continue) whom according to Christianity is living in death sin and who made his own religion. Neither did he use the Bible to justify himself… rather he said he was aware he was living contrary to Christ.

You really have no case… do you.
You dont have to continue this. We both know the New Testament account of Jesus who was solely good and pure. and the contrast to Muhammad that was violent and impure. Its the blind immitation of him, that we condemn because of the human tragedies of it.
.

wafa sultan, ali sina, ayaan hirsi, geert wilders…it seems as though that they are the only source of information that you want to use.
You asked me for a porn-star that did was a practising christian who did it for Jesus and that is what I gave you to answer your question.

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

Very simple! The defininition of “innocent” in Islam applies to Muslims only. No unbeliever is considered “innocent”. That’s why it’s always open season on the rest of us.

Vickie

So you know this, eh? Want to back it up?

wasalam

 

[GraceDK]

wafa sultan, ali sina, ayaan hirsi, geert wilders…it seems as though that they are the only source of information that you want to use.
You asked me for a porn-star that did was a practising christian who did it for Jesus and that is what I gave you to answer your question.

wasalam

however. this porn star made it clear that he knew he was in contradition to the bible and that accordingly he knew he was living in death sin.
( I still wonder how you even know his name… )
he said God had given him a big genital organ and so he was supposed to be a porn star By that you can see that this guy takes neither himself nor God seriously. He is making a joke of everything.

I asked you for a serious prof that there are many instances today of the same tendency that I have pointed out about Muslims, that they do violence and phedofilia in the name of allah and their prophet. Point any Christian who own slaves, sleeps with little girls, massacre jews etc… and says he does because Jesus did it.

I can show you numerous instances of this from all over the world when it comes to Islam. And th only thing you can give me is a single porn star who lives in dire sin according to any and every moral law ever made.
You must be joking.

I give you one last chance.

You have failed at this.

 

[slyboots]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Steele#Religion
gossiprocks.com/forum/faith-religion/136-interview-christian-porn-star.html

wasalam

Zaki,
That’s way out of the reality of what Christianity is. Porn and Christianity are adversaries not companions. If some porn celebs thinks he is Christian and still actsin, directs, or produces pornography then he certainly has another “think” coming. He is dead wrong.

And here are more reasons we cannot accept Islam.
5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
5:72-73: They do blaspheme who say: “God is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with God, - God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of
blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them
5:14: “And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection, and Allâh will inform them of what they used to do.”
9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Hadith 19:4294 “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war.”
Sahih Muslim 4366 Narrated by Umar ibn al-Khattab. Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims

Words of Muslim Leaders
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.” Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Iranian Shiite mullah)