WHY do you [if you do?] think the RCC is not the One true Church founded by Christ?

[PJM]

Oh shoot! I’ve done that, it is frustrating. Sorry man. Hey, if you get the time and there is something that you really want to say, I’m around. If you want to move on, I understand. I’m sure you have a pretty sound perspective from the other point of view.

To tell you the truth, I could probably offer a pretty compelling counter argument myself… I do have a decent sense of the counter points.

OK, I accept your challange

PLEASE READ my POST #577

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Cardinal Kasper is one of the greatest theologians of his generation. He is to be universally praised and lauded for all that he has done in a lifetime. His point in this instance was an ecclesiological one between our various churches.

You’re KIDDING RIGHT?

If NOT, PLEASE send me a private message to PJM

Thankfully, through the enlightenment of the College of Bishops by the Holy Spirit and through the work of the theological community, we have a profoundly different vision of ecclesiology than what we had in decades or centuries past. Just as today we have a radically different understanding of history.

Those who have actually worked over the years since 1964 with the dialogue, as opposed to some that one can read in this post or that, are quite aware of just where we are arrived to, which is quite far, and also where we are going relative to Catholic and Orthodox relations.

The level of PCPCU is important…in distinction to the insignificance of anonymous internet fora.

It is rather just as the Catholic Church around the world is commemorating the 5th centenary of the Reformation in a joint commemoration…without any regard for whether or not this individual or that consents, does not consent, or is even angry or completely ignorant.

My friend. do yourselves a favor and send me a private message. You are so very incorrect here I have information you ought to be aware of

GBY

Patrick [the OP]

 

[rcwitness]

OK, I accept your challange

PLEASE READ my POST #577

GBY

Patrick

I think I’d give you a run for your money! I remember, in my Non-denominational Christian school, we had an exercise for debate. We were assigned which side we were to argue for. The topic was abortion. Luckily for everyone there, I was assigned the pro-life side.

 

[steve_b]

You’re KIDDING RIGHT?

**If NOT, PLEASE send me a private message to PJM
**
Don Ruggero:

Thankfully, through the enlightenment of the College of Bishops by the Holy Spirit and through the work of the theological community, we have a profoundly different vision of ecclesiology than what we had in decades or centuries past. Just as today we have a radically different understanding of history.

Those who have actually worked over the years since 1964 with the dialogue, as opposed to some that one can read in this post or that, are quite aware of just where we are arrived to, which is quite far, and also where we are going relative to Catholic and Orthodox relations.

The level of PCPCU is important…in distinction to the insignificance of anonymous internet fora.

It is rather just as the Catholic Church around the world is commemorating the 5th centenary of the Reformation in a joint commemoration…without any regard for whether or not this individual or that consents, does not consent, or is even angry or completely ignorant.

My friend. do yourselves a favor and send me a private message. You are so very incorrect here I have information you ought to be aware of

GBY

Patrick [the OP]

Patrick,

Whatever that info is, I’d like to see that as well.

Thanks in advance

 

[Peter_J]

Who would you say is the ultimate determiner of what the CCC is saying, when, as it seems to me it appears nebulous and can be taken different ways. Even priests have different understandings of some such in my experience.

Example: recent posts concerning in persona Christi…some say the priest becomes Christ at certain times, others say, no, he doesn’t. The CCC says the priest acts in the Person of Christ at those times. Whatever does that mean? Both sides use the CCC to validate their position.

Well, I think if you look at early church history, you’ll see a dynamic very much like what you’re seeing in Catholicism (apart from the phenomenon of internet discussion forums) rather than a that text obviously means this dynamic that fundamentalist Protestants assume (in which case, why would there have been any need for councils?).

 

[Don_Ruggero]

You’re KIDDING RIGHT?

If NOT, PLEASE send me a private message to PJM

I am not kidding at all. Quite the contrary, in fact. The moderator of this forum is aware of the fact that I am a retired professor of theology.

What the moderator is not aware of, however, is the extent to which, in addition to being ordained, I am actually a friend of Cardinal Kasper, a friend who worked with him across years preceding my retirement, not only in the academy in Europe but specifically on the issue of ecumenism.

How dare you think that you are in any position whatsoever to critique His Eminence, the Cardinal…one of the greatest theologians of the past 50 years.

On the other hand, you have demonstrated repeatedly, in this thread but in others as well, an utter illiteracy when it comes even to the most basic principles and concepts of theology.

It is beyond absurd to assert that the RCC [the Roman Catholic Church] is alone the Church founded by Christ, since that would be in exclusion to the 23 sui juris Churches of the East that are in koinonia with the Church of Rome. You have made an error so basic and so fundamental – as you have done in other threads – that is utterly inexcusable in even a first year student of theology in the first cycle.

My friend. do yourselves a favor and send me a private message. You are so very incorrect here I have information you ought to be aware of

GBY

Patrick [the OP]

Do yourselves a favor? You are addressing one person…I am not a multiplicity of people.

Given my decades in ecclesiology, that you think you have any information whatsoever to offer me is nothing short of absurd.

You are reported to the moderator of this subforum for the attitude you have evidenced against Cardinal Kasper and you are most assuredly blocked from any possibility of ever contacting me via this forum’s personal messaging system.

You have asserted in other threads to be a student of Father Hardon. As a theologian, I knew Father Hardon across years and cherish both the memory of our interactions and of his work – particularly in the fields of catechetics and social communication – and you reflect nothing of the theological profundity that was so evident in him, as both a priest and as a scholar.