Why do you love God?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Could you please make a biblical case that God the Son gave us the church.

**Mat 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Mat 18:18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
**

**Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Mar 16:15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Luk 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,

Joh 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Could you please make a biblical case that God the Son gave us the church.

**Col 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.

1Co 12:20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
1Co 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
1Co 12:22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,
1Co 12:23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,
1Co 12:24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
1Co 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Could you please make a biblical case that God the Son gave us the church.

Apostolic Church

**Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Joh 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”

Luk 22:29 and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,
Luk 22:30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have that are not of this fold: them also I must bring. And they shall hear my voice: And there shall be one fold and one shepherd.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors:

1Ti 3:1 A faithful saying: If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth good work.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons in like manner: chaste, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre:
1Ti 5:17 Let the priests that rule well be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Tit 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee:**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Could you please make a biblical case that God the Son gave us the church.

Authoritative Church

**Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Joh 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread,
1Co 11:24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me.

Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.**

 

[underdog]

Whoa, wait a minute. Off topic, number one. Number two, we have repeatedly asked you to make a Biblical case for sola scriptura. Fair is fair, you were asked first.

There is one body of Christ (universal church) which consists of indviduals that the Father gave to the Son to redeem. The universal body of Christ comes from the various churches around the world. In those various churches, there are individuals that are united to Christ through faith.

who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks but all the churches of the Gentiles give thanks as well.

Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches.

If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God

33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

18 With him we are sending [1] the brother who is famous among all the churches for his preaching of the gospel.

We want you to know, brothers,[1] about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia,

With him we are sending[1] the brother who is famous among all the churches for his preaching of the gospel.

And not only that, but he has been appointed by the churches to travel with us as we carry out this act of grace that is being ministered by us, for the glory of the Lord himself and to show our good will.

As for Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker for your benefit. And as for our brothers, they are messengers[1] of the churches, the glory of Christ.
[1]Greek apostles

So give proof before the churches of your love and of our boasting about you to these men.

I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you.

And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.

For in what were you less favored than the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not burden you? Forgive me this wrong!
and all the brothers[1] who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

[1]Or brothers and sisters. The plural Greek word adelphoi (translated “brothers”) refers to siblings in a family. In New Testament usage, depending on the context, adelphoi may refer either to men or to both men and women who are siblings (brothers and sisters) in God’s family, the church; also verse 11
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ.

14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,

Greeting to the Seven Churches
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,

saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Could you please make a biblical case that God the Son gave us the church.

Infallible Church

**Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Joh 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Luk 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1Jn 2:27 And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you: but as his unction teacheth you of all things and is truth and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him.

Act 15:28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.**

 

[KephasAugustine]

Infallible Church

lmao. what he said.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

There is one body of Christ (universal church) which consists of indviduals that the Father gave to the Son to redeem. The universl body of Christ come from the various churches around the world.

So you’re telling us each individual has the authority to bind and loose on earth and it will be made so in Heaven as promised by Christ? Each individual holds the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Each individual has the authority to forgive sins and they will be forgiven and the sins not forgiven by each individual will not be forgiven?

Avoid sola scriptura all you want. It speaks volumes.

Why didn’t God inspire it be written that scriptures were the pillar and ground of truth and not the Church?

Why didn’t God inspire it be written to take disputes to scriptures and not the Church?

I reject private interpretations.

 

[underdog]

Let’s get back to the thread topic of “why do you love God”?

I love God because He added me to His Church through faith in His Son… to the praise of His glorious grace.

Gifts of Grace - Romans 12

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, [5] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, [6] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let’s get back to the thread topic of “why do you love God”?

I love God because He added me to His Church through faith in His Son… to the praise of His glorious grace.

NO, you wanted to take the topic in another direction and we’re here.

Show us a Biblical case for sola scriptura.

 

[underdog]

NO, you wanted to take the topic in another direction and we’re here.

Show us a Biblical case for sola scriptura.

Off the thread topic my friend. Why did you post that the church is “my church”?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let’s get back to the thread topic of “why do you love God”?

I love God because He added me to His Church through faith in His Son… to the praise of His glorious grace.

Gifts of Grace - Romans 12

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, [5] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, [6] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

Editing after the fact. You’d think you’d quit that since it clearly shows a characteristic of Reformed.

You wanted a Biblical case and I’m ready to give you one. But seeing that, you want to go back to the topic of thread.

Now show us the Biblical case for sola scriptura that says each and every individual can receive a different message from the Bible and it’s truth. Truth of God cannot be different.

Show everyone how much you know about scriptures. Make the case or stop pushing your private interpretations on us.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Off the thread topic my friend. Why did you post that the church is “my church”?

It’s my Church and every one who believe’s Church! We are members of His body and your insinuation is twisting for inflammatory purposes.

In the same post you ask to go back to the topic of the thread you bring up Church again. Seems very hypocritical to me.

Let’s see your sola scriptura case and like you say, let’s keep it Biblical. If you’re preaching truth, you can do it, if not, like I said it speaks volumes here.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Off the thread topic my friend. Why did you post that the church is “my church”?

You asked for a Biblical case for the Church and I replied. The very least you could do is address the points, I brought up specifically. Respond to the points below.

So you’re telling us each individual has the authority to bind and loose on earth and it will be made so in Heaven as promised by Christ? Each individual holds the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Each individual has the authority to forgive sins and they will be forgiven and the sins not forgiven by each individual will not be forgiven?

Why didn’t God inspire it be written that scriptures were the pillar and ground of truth and not the Church?

Why didn’t God inspire it be written to take disputes to scriptures and not the Church?

This is not Reformed’s pet underdog’s forum to change topic at your leisure. You asked for it and I’m ready to give it to you.

Does anyone else in this thread mind if he answers my questions or makes a Biblical case for private interpretations of scriptures?

 

[KephasAugustine]

Does anyone else in this thread mind if he answers my questions or makes a Biblical case for private interpretations of scriptures?

Hardly. But I doubt that he will–it’s hard to argue a point you don’t really have.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

You asked for a Biblical case for the Church and I replied. The very least you could do is address the points, I brought up specifically. Respond to the points below.

This is not Reformed’s pet underdog’s forum to change topic at your leisure. You asked for it and I’m ready to give it to you.

Does anyone else in this thread mind if he answers my questions or makes a Biblical case for private interpretations of scriptures?

I would like to see him try. Of course, we know he can’t do it.

I’ve noticed that you are very conservative in your theology. How did you get so screwed up in your politics?

Here’s a good one from Chesterton, paraphrased, which I think you’ll appreciate:

The job of liberals is to keep on making new mistakes, while the job of conservatives is to keep old mistakes from being corrected.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I would like to see him try. Of course, we know he can’t do it.

I’ve noticed that you are very conservative in your theology. How did you get so screwed up in your politics?

Here’s a good one from Chesterton, paraphrased, which I think you’ll appreciate:

The job of liberals is to keep on making new mistakes, while the job of conservatives is to keep old mistakes from being corrected.

Politics, I have no love for. Christ and His Church, I love.

He shouldn’t ask for what he doesn’t want to discuss.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Politics, I have no love for. Christ and His Church, I love.

He shouldn’t ask for what he doesn’t want to discuss.

I may have you confused with someone else, then.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks but all the churches of the Gentiles give thanks as well.

Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches.

If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God

33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

18 With him we are sending [1] the brother who is famous among all the churches for his preaching of the gospel.

We want you to know, brothers,[1] about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia,

With him we are sending[1] the brother who is famous among all the churches for his preaching of the gospel.

And not only that, but he has been appointed by the churches to travel with us as we carry out this act of grace that is being ministered by us, for the glory of the Lord himself and to show our good will.

As for Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker for your benefit. And as for our brothers, they are messengers[1] of the churches, the glory of Christ.
[1]Greek apostles

So give proof before the churches of your love and of our boasting about you to these men.

I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you.

And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.

For in what were you less favored than the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not burden you? Forgive me this wrong!
and all the brothers[1] who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

[1]Or brothers and sisters. The plural Greek word adelphoi (translated “brothers”) refers to siblings in a family. In New Testament usage, depending on the context, adelphoi may refer either to men or to both men and women who are siblings (brothers and sisters) in God’s family, the church; also verse 11
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ.

14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,

Greeting to the Seven Churches
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,

saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Many Churches, with the same traditions and doctrine. There was only one Church, no matter how many different meeting places there was, with the same doctrines, until the 1500s. John Calvin’s Church came later than that.

All the individual Churches you attempt to “lump” together have different doctrines, different interpretations of scriptures, different sacraments, and different “TRUTHS”. I’m sorry, God does not have many truths.

The Church and the faith existed 400 years before the canon of the Bible was defined, by the CATHOLIC CHURCH. That Church existed through oral tradition, the same method Christ used to teach the Apostles.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let me give you a “few” examples of oral tradtion, starting with the Head of the Church.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

This passage shows several things. Number one, how did the people know what Christ was talking about when he spoke of the “chair of Moses”? It was not written anywhere else in the Bible, including the Old Testament. He did not have to explain what he was talking about, because they knew of the chair of Moses through oral tradition.

Number two, he was telling people to observe and do whatsoever they tell you, because He knew He was about to build His Church and it could be protected in matters of faith and morals through His Holy Spirit. He did not tell them to find themselves a Bible and that’s all they needed. He was teaching them about the authority of the Church, and it was clear authority not individual self-appointed authority.

**1Co 10:4 And all drank the same spiritual drink: (And they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.) **

How did St. Paul know about the rock that followed the Israelites through the desert? It was not written about anywhere else in scriptures, including the Old Testament! St. Paul could have only learned that through, oral tradition.

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Mambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith.

Remember the story of Pharoah’s magicians? You know they turned their staffs into snakes and Moses staff/snake ate them both. How did St. Paul know their names? They are not named anywhere else in the Bible! St. Paul could have only learned this through, oral tradtion.

Act 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring you ought to support the weak and to remember the word of the Lord Jesus, how he said: It is a more blessed thing to give, rather than to receive.

How did St. Paul know Christ said it was more blessed to give than to receive? It’s not written anywhere else in the Bible! St. Paul was not an eyewitness to Christ. St. Paul could only have known this through oral tradition.

**Mat 22:29 And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering, saith to them: Do ye not therefore err, because you know not the scriptures nor the power of God? **

Christ used examples of misinterpretations of scriptures against the Sadducees.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures: for you think in them to have life everlasting. And the same are they that give testimony of me.

He criticized people for thinking the scriptures to have everlasting life, when the scriptures pointed at Him and they still couldn’t recognize Him as the Messiah. Clearly, they didn’t understand what they read.

**2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. **

God inspired St. Peter to write about the dangers of misinterpreting scriptures! Yet sola scripturists don’t want to speak about this verse.

I’d really like to see you make your Biblical case for scriptures alone, or sola scriptura. The problem is, we both know it’s not scriptural.