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ethelzguy
Guest
I find these comments fascinating. I can pray anytime. Why do I need to detach myself from the Mass to pray then? Why would I not want to be totally immersed in the sacrifice of the Mass?
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MikeDunphy
Guest
We immerse ourselves in the Mass through prayer. You can offer your own silent prayers in union with those of the priest even if you are using words that no one else is.I find these comments fascinating. I can pray anytime. Why do I need to detach myself from the Mass to pray then? Why would I not want to be totally immersed in the sacrifice of the Mass?
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ethelzguy
Guest
This whole mindset just baffles me. If I go to Mass, it’s to be a part of Mass. Even the TLM crowd refers to it as “assisting at Mass”. So, why would I go to Mass, and then tune out the Mass as background “noise” while I pray something else?We immerse ourselves in the Mass through prayer. You can offer your own silent prayers in union with those of the priest even if you are using words that no one else is.
It would be like going to a ball game and listening to music on my transistor radio while I was there.
It is illogical at best, and irrational at worst.
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catharina
Guest
I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years. I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life.
I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.
I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.
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AlexV
Guest
Yeah, obedience indeed. I guess all the priests involved in the pedophilia crimes,the priests who abandoned their vocations to seek laicization en masse after the Council, the laity who stopped going to Mass altogether after the Council…I guess they’re all part of that great generation of “obedient” Catholics.
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muffinmojo
Guest
I love the EF because it focuses me on God, not on myself or on the priest. The sacred feel of it is exactly what brought me to the Catholic Church, after floundering around in every protestant denomination I could find, eternally dissatisfied and unfulfilled by meaningless songs, pointless worship services, and pandering to my youth. The EF is an encounter with what we SHOULD be, not what we are, and it provides an identity, a fullness, that is lacking in modern-style Masses. I have also found it a great tool for evangelizing. Aside from myself, it brought 2 others I know to the Church, reinvigorated a family of 4, piqued the interest of an agnostic who didn’t like the modern-style protestant services, and earned the respect of many others.
The EF is home, to me. I longed for it even before I knew it existed(when I was a protestant and didn’t know what ‘Mass’ meant and still thought Catholics worhsipped Mary). The only thing bad about it is that it is not universal, and one must seek one out, which in my location means failing, because there is only one Low Mass in the entire Archdiocese(actually there might be two, but the point is they are both Low Masses and both hard to get to).
The EF is home, to me. I longed for it even before I knew it existed(when I was a protestant and didn’t know what ‘Mass’ meant and still thought Catholics worhsipped Mary). The only thing bad about it is that it is not universal, and one must seek one out, which in my location means failing, because there is only one Low Mass in the entire Archdiocese(actually there might be two, but the point is they are both Low Masses and both hard to get to).
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catharina
Guest
Do your efforts to communicate always rest in sarcasm? If so, too bad for you.Yeah, obedience indeed. I guess all the priests involved in the pedophilia crimes,the priests who abandoned their vocations to seek laicization en masse after the Council, the laity who stopped going to Mass altogether after the Council…I guess they’re all part of that great generation of “obedient” Catholics.
The pedophilia scandal reached around the world and began long before Vatican II.
It was discovered and disclosed AFTER Vatican II - remember?
Laity who stopped attending Mass were DISobedient - remember?
If men were granted laicization by the VATICAN, then who are you to comment about it?
This thread invites us to share our reasons fo loving the Latin Mass.
REMEMBER?
I hope you can overcome the bitterness afflicting you -
and the sooner the better.
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AlexV
Guest
No bitterness here. Just no willingness to countenance the thinly veiled arrogance of those whose main contribution to this forum is to let us know how, wink wink, the people who dropped the Tridentine Mass or never remained attached to it are the “obedient” ones, with the not so thinly veiled accusation that at some level the Tridentinists are somehow “disobedient.”
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catharina
Guest
You are a judge by appointment? Or infusion? Or grandiosity? Please do something to overcome your suspicious and negative imaginings.No bitterness here. Just no willingness to countenance the thinly veiled arrogance of those whose main contribution to this forum is to let us know how, wink wink, the people who dropped the Tridentine Mass or never remained attached to it are the “obedient” ones, with the not so thinly veiled accusation that at some level the Tridentinists are somehow “disobedient.”
Or don’t - just refrain from aiming it at me.
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AlexV
Guest
Did I accuse you of anything? No. Read my posts carefully. No “aiming” of any accusations at you.
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catharina
Guest
Alex.Did I accuse you of anything? No. Read my posts carefully. No “aiming” of any accusations at you.
Dear.
Your posts were responses to my posts. Get a grip.
Now moving on from your stance of planting/feeding discord and dissension:
Why do YOU love the TLM?
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AlexV
Guest
Making a response is hardly tantamount to aiming accusations. And refrain from patronizing words like “dear”.
And by the way, Catharina, YOU altered this thread. You made a remark about why you love the TLM…and then you segued to the OF and made a provocative remark about alleged “obedience” as a thinly veiled swipe at Tridentine Mass lovers.
So don’t lecture me on thread topics or charity or anything of the sort. You felt the need to inject criticism into this thread…don’t act surprised that someone called you on it.
And by the way, Catharina, YOU altered this thread. You made a remark about why you love the TLM…and then you segued to the OF and made a provocative remark about alleged “obedience” as a thinly veiled swipe at Tridentine Mass lovers.
So don’t lecture me on thread topics or charity or anything of the sort. You felt the need to inject criticism into this thread…don’t act surprised that someone called you on it.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Making a response is hardly tantamount to aiming accusations. And refrain from patronizing words like “dear”.
And by the way, Catharina, YOU altered this thread. You made a remark about why you love the TLM…and then you segued to the OF and made a provocative remark about alleged “obedience” as a thinly veiled swipe at Tridentine Mass lovers.
So don’t lecture me on thread topics or charity or anything of the sort. You felt the need to inject criticism into this thread…don’t act surprised that someone called you on it.
Well — now I know I wasn’t the only one who noticed that.
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catharina
Guest
Making a response is hardly tantamount to aiming accusations. And refrain from patronizing words like “dear”.
And by the way, Catharina, YOU altered this thread. You made a remark about why you love the TLM…and then you segued to the OF and made a provocative remark about alleged “obedience” as a thinly veiled swipe at Tridentine Mass lovers.
So don’t lecture me on thread topics or charity or anything of the sort. You felt the need to inject criticism into this thread…don’t act surprised that someone called you on it.
- Ok. You did not attack me.
oops. revision: you did attack me but I PROVOKED you and therefore I deserved it. - Refraining from patronizing you? You lead the way , ok?
- You need very serious help if you imagine/conclude that I attacked the TLM.
- By the way, ALEX, obedience is obedience. It’s a VIRTUE.
Why get defensive about it??? - I don’t KNOW you. For starters, why do you love the TLM?
Can you possibly go there?
While supervising (ha!) the souls of others?
Fixation is a terrible burden.
I’ll keep you in my prayers.
Why do you love the TLM?
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AlexV
Guest
Others can determine what happened to this thread, Catharina. I made a blanket comment that clearly attracted your (guilty?) attention, and so I decided at that point to spell out for you what you did on this thread. In future, when the thread is out why someone loves the EF Mass, don’t inject gratuitous comments about why you love the OF Mass and make comments about “obedience” that clearly imply those attached to the EF Mass are associated with disobedience.
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catharina
Guest
Oh my. Since I had no intention of “swiping” might I think there’s some over-senstivity on the topic. YEP! I do believe that. Simply amazing.
Well — now I know I wasn’t the only one who noticed that.
I attempt to say why I LOVE both forms of the Mass and so I’m declared an “ENEMY?”
Wow.
Prayers for all.
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AlexV
Guest
Thread is about loving the EF (as you started lecturing me), in the traditional forum. Not about loving the OF. Not about how “obedient” the people who accepted the OF in the 1960s and 1970s were.
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AlexV
Guest
Parsing Catharina’s prose:
"I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years.
[So far, so good] I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life. [Hmm…where did this come from? Off-topic? But okay content-wise.]
I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. [Whoa…way off-topic…and nice caps…I mean, you couldn’t be implying something here about those who remained attached to the old Mass? Nah…that would be uncharitable, eh, Catharina?] Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. [Notice we’re now way off-topic…it’s all about the OF now, and obedience thereto.] My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. [Self-praise, and generational praise, again off-topic…way off-topic.] I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.
"I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years.
[So far, so good] I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life. [Hmm…where did this come from? Off-topic? But okay content-wise.]
I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. [Whoa…way off-topic…and nice caps…I mean, you couldn’t be implying something here about those who remained attached to the old Mass? Nah…that would be uncharitable, eh, Catharina?] Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. [Notice we’re now way off-topic…it’s all about the OF now, and obedience thereto.] My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. [Self-praise, and generational praise, again off-topic…way off-topic.] I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.
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catharina
Guest
Alex (dear), you addfressed ME about obedience.Others can determine what happened to this thread, Catharina. I made a blanket comment that clearly attracted your (guilty?) attention, and so I decided at that point to spell out for you what you did on this thread. In future, when the thread is out why someone loves the EF Mass, don’t inject gratuitous comments about why you love the OF Mass and make comments about “obedience” that clearly imply those attached to the EF Mass are associated with disobedience.
Without using a quote, you addressed me.
I can’t imagine that any day will come when I’m obedient to YOU
so refrain from your attempt to give me orders. Okey dokey?
Dreadfully sorry that your inferences led you to such an ugly place, but I implied nothing that led to those inferences.
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AlexV
Guest
The thread is about loving the EF. Refrain, then, from comments about why you love the OF and especially about how those who accepted the OF 40 years ago were “obedient” (in obvious contrast to those who remained attached to the EF…you know, their “rightful aspiration”, to quote John Paul II).
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