Why do you need God/religion?

[Scapular]

Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”. I was raised strictly Catholic for my first 17 years. I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free. Sunday comes and Sunday goes. My question is “Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” …

So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

Great question!!!

I too have everything and yet have not arrived. House, cars, dogs, new baby, great wife, high paying job, vacation time, health, friends, golf, books, wine, food, expensive toys, anything I want. By all measures I am among the wealthiest and most educated people in the world.

Of late however (I’m 40), having achieved all my material goals, I am finding myself asking my wife, “Why don’t we sell it all and give the money to the poor?”.

I am beginning to find my life shallow and meaningless. I want more meaning and this can only be found in helping the poor, attending to the sick, sheltering the homeless, adopting children, caring for the elderly. This is where the meaning is.

I believe that I will also find God and His Son and the Spirit in these new activities.

My suggestion to you is to find a charity that you like, and give significantly to its cause for the care of your soul.:clapping:

Take care,

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

FreeThinker:

Hi everyone,
So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

God is love. Becoming a Christian is an interior disposition first and foremost. You make a conscious decision to turn outward instead of inward. You turn toward God who is the finest expression of love and turn away from desires that are less than the most perfect desire, love.

This love is for everyone around you. Your happiness will permeate their happiness. And when the rain falls God’s love will shelter you.

Essentially, you make a choice for the finest thing there is: the love of God and this will lead you, according to your strengths, to glorify Him and spread love to everyone.

It gets more complicated I think but that’s the most important first step in my opinion.

 

[maggiec]

FreeThinker:

Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”.

Is there ever a time in your life that deep within yourself you feel your missing something? When you look around and see that this is your future for the next 50 years. You’ll wake up every morning and go through your day with nothing to look forward to because it will all be the same? Do you ever feel with everything you have you’re empty inside, disatisfied for no reason?
Thats why you need Jesus and his Father and the church He started.
maggiec

 

[squirt]

FreeThinker:

Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”. I was raised strictly Catholic for my first 17 years. I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free. Sunday comes and Sunday goes. My question is “Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” If you answer “to be thankful for what I have” then I believe I should continue on my current path because this is what God-free has led to. I guess everything could be bigger and better but I’m happy with what I have, which is more than plenty. I won’t buy an answer based on scare tactics - “you’ll burn in hell!”, and I’m not looking for an answer full of “bible babble”. I’ve heard plenty of that the last 16 years and it really doesn’t change my outlook because life is looking fine.

So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

I guess the answer depends on whether or not you believe in God. If you don’t, there’s not an awful lot of point in going to Church. When I was an atheist, I’d go whenever somebody dragged me along, I wouldn’t sense anything ‘Godlike’ there, and I saw less and less point in going to Church.

If you think there might be a God, church is a good place to try to find out more about Him. And Catholic churches are good because there’s usually no pressure to really participate. You can go, sit back, and watch if you want.

If you believe in God, and you’re interested in knowing Him more, church is a great place to be on Sunday.

 

[CatholicGeek]

“Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” … Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

FT,
I think that the answer to your question, is YES, you are missing out.

You have to ask yourself the question → “Does God exist?” I think most people feel that He does exist, in some form or another, then ask yourself “If God created me, what did He create me for?” Is it only to enjoy life and be happy?

I think much of the answer is that God created us to love. To love one another and to love God. But love demanded and not freely given is not love at all. Love must be given away freely. That is what God did for us, in creating us, and in what Jesus did to redeem us from our failures.

So how do we love? Can we look to others for examples of love? Sure. But we can look to a better example of love, the source of love, God himself. To make it more practical, God became human in Jesus, to show us how to love. Jesus’ love was a sacrificial love.

1 John 4:19 “We love because (God) first loved us.”

The other thing to think about is, “If God loves us, and created us, should not we look to Him to learn how to truely live and love?” God, the source of all love and life, has the roadmap/guidelines for how to live. Not just to be happy, but how to live in order to love others and God to the fullest extent possible.

Jesus said in John 10:10 “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.”

God does not promise a “happy” life, but a complete live. A life worthy of the gift of love/life that he gave us. Living for God is not just a command of God, but it is our loving gift back to God. Sometimes people don’t “stop to smell the roses” until they are gone. It is harder to turn to God when everything is going great. Who needs God then? But it is “in (God) all things hold together” Colossians 1:17. Even when we do not see or acknoledge God, he is still there holding us together.

God is Love. God created us in Love. God created us to Love. Following God and His ways is the only way for us to truely Love.

 

[Scanner]

So what am I missing out on in THIS life?

Freethinker,

I don’t like to answer a question with a question (well okay, I do sometimes ), but I think it is proper for you to give us a more detailed frame of reference than what you gave us. The tone of your writing, the writing between the lines, seems to indicate a question of “What’s in it for me right now?” or as Madonna wrote:

“What has God done for me lately?” Maybe I am misreading the tone, sometimes something is lost in the internet medium.

So, I have to challenge you as well, what is your purpose on this earth other than taking up air space and consumable goods like cars? What is your “mission statement.”?

Is it to accumulate as much wealth as possible? What now, that you are on your way to accomplishing this mission?

Why are we here?

(See, no bible babble here )

 

[STJOMO]

You’re 32. You have it all. You’ve reached a peak.

Jesus was 33, at the prime of life, as well, and could very well have made the same claims, as He entered Jerusalem in triumph, the the chants of “Hosannah!” of the people along His route into the city.

But He had a different vision, one that many on Earth could not – and, still, don not – comprehend. His vision was to save mankind from evil and from its own weaknesses.

The Romans couldn’t understand this, and they had an empire that stretched across the “civilized” world; the Jewish leadership could not understand this; they thoght that the Messiah was coming to establish a Jewish kingdom on Earth.

Our Lord, instead, stressed that his kingdom was not of this world and that He needed to show man the way to eternal life in His kingdom.

Yes, He had it all; he could have still saved Himself numerous times; he even pled with his Father, just before being arrested that “if it is your will, please take this cup from me, but your will be done, not mine.” He could have saved himself when send to Herod and the Sannhedrin. He could have taken the advice of the “bad thief” who challenged him to “save yourself and us” as they hung on their crosses.

But, He had bigger plans. Plans to save humanity, by offering himself up as payment for the sins of humanity – sins that you note are continually being committed today.

I want to meet Christ in person. I want to give Him reverence. I want to spend eternal life with The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit in Paradise.

Christ showed that suffering in this world is worth the wait. I believe it.

I, too, have a wonderful wife, two great kids, a nice house and three cars.

But, we’re all eventually going to die. The house will crumble and the cars will wear out.

None of that matters, just as none of Herod’s riches, or the earthly possessions of any of the richest people in history, mattered when death came for them.

God must be allowed to walk with you through life, for who is better-qualified to show you the way to Heaven?

May the Lord be with you and your family.

 

[petra]

Freethinker, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are derived from God’s revelation, but a question more fundamental is whether God exists. If you don’t believe that He does, then discussion of Heaven and Hell is meaningless. The existence of God cannot be proved scientifically, as the scientific method requires the ability to repeat a specific process. But there is ample proof of his existence through the use of logic. I would recommend reading Fundamentals of the Faith, by Peter Kreeft. The beginning of the book presents several compelling logical arguments for the existence of God.

I think the issue of goodness would be relevant to consider. You have good things in your life. You have a good wife and family, a good job, a good income, and good things. What is good? Faithfulness in relationships and reward for hard work are good, but they also happen to be issues of morality and justice. Where does morality and justice come from? Some say these things evolved as pragmatic results of survival of community in a godless universe. But our conscience tells us they are more than just pragmatic—they are good.

The flip side of the coin is the issue of evil. Some say the existence of evil is the greatest proof there is no God because “how could a ‘good God’ allow bad things to happen?” I say it is the strongest proof that there is a good God. Consider the following: if there is no God, then evil is an illusion. When something “bad” happens to us, there is no basis for outrage and there is no consolation that our suffering and hurt is real or that it even matters. If there is anything humanity can agree on, it is that evil exists and that it is very bad. Our conscience tells us this is true. God validates that this is true from his revealed Word to us. God gives an answer to evil: It is bad, very bad. He says that when we are hurt by evil, it matters very much and He is filled with compassion for us.

You have, fortunately, not been touched by much evil, FreeThinker. But this could be for a variety of reasons. This world is a strange place. Humans have free will and have the ability to reject God. Yet God works in parallel with our free will. It is a fallen world, but God is still present and at work here. I’ve heard it said that this life is the only Heaven that non-Christians will ever see, and the only Hell that Christians will see. With regard to the former, we all, whether Christian or not, receive benefits of God’s grace because we live in a world in which He exists and works. It is possible that the good things in your life are a result of God’s graces—even though you don’t follow Him. An analogy might be: suppose someone visits another country that has effective highway safety laws. Suppose that, because of this, this country has fewer automobile accidents than any other country in the world. A visitor driving through that country would be a beneficiary of those laws. He or she would be safer. This may be due to the fact that he or she willingly complies with such laws, or even if not, others’ compliance may be enough to result in the added safety. But simply following road safety laws does not make that person a citizen of that country. Nevertheless, he or she derives certain benefits.

In the same way, you live in a world in which God is active. Whether you know Him or love Him, to some extent you will be a beneficiary of His presence. In your quote above, you mention that missing out on an afterlife doesn’t bother you. Actually, you will have an afterlife, regardless of what you do. The question will be whether it will be a life with God or without Him. If you don’t want Him in your life now, it would be inappropriate for Him to be in your life on the other side. I don’t see Hell as being punishment as much as a consequence. Hell will be a place where bad things happen and it doesn’t matter. All the things you identify as good in your life—loving faithful wife, reward for hard work, laughter, joy—these are benefits of God’s presence in our world. Love, faithfulness, reward, joy . . . these are all things from God. These things will not be present in an eternal existence without Him. You are like the tourist driving through a foreign country. When you leave that country and go home, the blessings will not be there.

Some on this thread have mentioned that blessings in life can be fleeting. Just has good things happen to Christians and Atheists, so also bad things can happen to Christians and Atheists. I hope your life is always happy. But if you’re like most people, your life will have ups and downs. If you encounter hardships and losses, let this life be the only Hell you will ever know. Let Christ be your Lord and Savior.

 

[FreeThinker]

Scanner, great reply

My question is truly genuine. I will put this another way that some of you may not like. I look at religion as a sort of “club”. Now I’m searching for which “club” to join. I was raised Catholic so that’s the “club” I usually see and when I see how the other members act and treat each other, even though God has plainly laid out the framework for us, I would rather want nothing to do with those people. I have a real problem with the “do as I say not as I do” crowd, and judging by the amount of mean, rude and inconsiderate acts in this world there must be plenty of religious people that fall into this catagory. If this is how the “good and rightous” people act, you can count me out!

My first 17 years were full of mass, Catholic school, and good parents which is where my value system came from. It just seems that you can instill and follow good morality, and how to treat one another, without belonging to a religious organization.

For me those other commandments don’t seem that hard.

Thanks for all your points of view.

 

[Scanner]

Freethinker:

Scanner, great reply

Really? Thanks. I thought they were more genuine questions.

My question is truly genuine. I will put this another way that some of you may not like.

Okay, good, now we are getting to opinion vs. a question you have.

I look at religion as a sort of “club”. Now I’m searching for which “club” to join.

I think that is a very “fair” and “genuine” motive.

I was raised Catholic so that’s the “club” I usually see and when I see how the other members act and treat each other, even though God has plainly laid out the framework for us, I would rather want nothing to do with those people. I have a real problem with the “do as I say not as I do” crowd, and judging by the amount of mean, rude and inconsiderate acts in this world there must be plenty of religious people that fall into this catagory. If this is how the “good and rightous” people act, you can count me out!

Well, I think it comes down to what do you think the purpose of a church is for. Do you think it is supposed to be a “Club for Saints” or a “Haven for Sinners”?

My first 17 years were full of mass, Catholic school, and good parents which is where my value system came from. It just seems that you can instill and follow good morality, and how to treat one another, without belonging to a religious organization.
I definitely agree here. Ethics and religion are often not intertwinted, although certainly semi-related. Look at Islam right now - many radicals are committing horrible ethical breaches**. ** It is my personal beleif that religion is more about spirituality than ethics. But I will say that most here do seem concerned with ethics.

I would be interested to hear your “Statement of Purpose” or “Mission Statement” sometime.

 

[The_Barrister]

FreeThinker:

Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”. I was raised strictly Catholic for my first 17 years. I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free. Sunday comes and Sunday goes. My question is “Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” If you answer “to be thankful for what I have” then I believe I should continue on my current path because this is what God-free has led to. I guess everything could be bigger and better but I’m happy with what I have, which is more than plenty. I won’t buy an answer based on scare tactics - “you’ll burn in hell!”, and I’m not looking for an answer full of “bible babble”. I’ve heard plenty of that the last 16 years and it really doesn’t change my outlook because life is looking fine.

So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

Apparently, **you ** don’t need it at all. **You ** have everything **you ** need right here!

**You ** GO boy!

When I’m on my deathbed, I’ll think about this post. Maybe I’ll be moved to convert to atheism, thinking about all the good things it brought you.

 

[petra]

FreeThinker:

It just seems that you can instill and follow good morality, and how to treat one another, without belonging to a religious organization.

Absolutely true. My dad is the best example I know of. He is good, honest, hard-working, and relentlessly cheerful, yet he is atheist. He, too, believes in the value of morality. But if you are atheist, both you and my dad believe in something without logical basis [morality]. The existence of Good and Bad presumes the existence of God. So this is what I mean that you are a beneficiary of some of God’s graces. You are like the traveler in a a country with safe highway laws. Even if one disobeys some of the laws, the chances of safety are better than in another country in which there are no highway laws.

I concur with your disdain for the “club” mentality. And perhaps I have misunderstood you to be atheist, whereas you are actually a believer looking for a place to live out your faith in God. Is that correct? I am a recent convert to Catholicism, and was Protestant for 22 years before that. Although I have come to believe in the validity of a unfied, visible nature of God’s mystical body of believers, spirituality is not about membership on a list. It is about a relationship with God. That is especially important to remember as we see “Christians” behaving badly [which includes pride, hypocracy, etc.] People have a free will, so it isn’t reasonable to judge God based on the failings of people.

While even the Catholic Church recognizes spirituality [even saving spirituality] outside the Church, the Church provides certain special benefits to salvation and spiritual growth. It is the normative path to spirituality, excepted by true ignorance. Involvment in a Christian community, in general, provides support, encouragement, and resources for learning the Bible. The Catholic Church in particular provides this, as well as the sacraments, which are not hoops to jump through, but special graces to give us extra help and benefit in our spiritual journey. It is not God’s will that we exist outside the community of believers, however imperfect that community seems.

I appreciate your honest questions. Blessings to you as you sort this out.

 

[Bigwill]

It strikes me as strange that you would assume that you don’t need God because of all of your material goods. You frame the question in terms of the material and then ask what the point of the spiritual is. Without SOME appreciation for the spiritual, how could anyone ever convince you that your spirit needs to be fed?

 

[Poisson]

FreeThinker:

I won’t buy an answer based on scare tactics - “you’ll burn in hell!”, and I’m not looking for an answer full of “bible babble”. I’ve heard plenty of that the last 16 years and it really doesn’t change my outlook because life is looking fine.
So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?

Fact is one day you WILL die and if you are going to make a mistake would it not be better to err on the side of caution.
If you believe and are wrong, what have you lost?
If you do not believe and are wrong, eternity is a pretty long time.

 

[Hans_A]

FreeThinker, it is as easy as this. If you’re right then no harm no foul , but if the Catholic Church is right then you’re in trouble .

Just some food for thought.

I pray for your return.

In Christ,
Hans

 

[Bigwill]

Poisson:

Fact is one day you WILL die and if you are going to make a mistake would it not be better to err on the side of caution.
If you believe and are wrong, what have you lost?
If you do not believe and are wrong, eternity is a pretty long time.

I’ve read Pascal’s Wager, and I don’t find it to be very convincing. Is that really faith? Believe, because what have you got to lose?

 

[The_Barrister]

Bigwill:

It strikes me as strange that you would assume that you don’t need God because of all of your material goods. You frame the question in terms of the material and then ask what the point of the spiritual is. Without SOME appreciate for the spiritual, how could anyone ever convince you that your spirit needs to be fed?

Yes, my point as well.

This is one reason why some priests (and the Opus Dei prelature in particular) evangelize the wealthy and powerful. Someone needs to.

Somehow, I doubt that anything we say here will convince our good fellow to consider other options. Perhaps, like many of us, an event will take place that will make his rethink his progress on the road. I wish him the best.

 

[FreeThinker]

Honestly, I don’t think have a “statement of purpose”, which may be a partial motive for this thread. I think most people would say that “to get to heaven” is their purpose. But it also seems that everyone has their own opinion on what heaven is, reading these forums kind of proves that. People have all sorts of ideas and the truth is that no one really knows so I guess I’m just more concerned with doing good here on earth rather than worrying about an afterlife.

I guess that last part could be my purpose.
Thanks again to all.

 

[The_Barrister]

“I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free.”

I guess I’m just more concerned with doing good here on earth rather than worrying about an afterlife.

I guess that last part could be my purpose.
Thanks again to all.

Yep, you’re doing “good” here on earth! Feeding the poor, visiting the sick, driving nice cars.

You’re fulfilling someone’s purpose. I guess it could be your purpose.

You GO boy!

 

[Poisson]

The Barrister:

Somehow, I doubt that anything we say here will convince our good fellow to consider other options. Perhaps, like many of us, an event will take place that will make his rethink his progress on the road. I wish him the best.

Or maybe the very reason he’s here is because the Holy Spirit has stired up inside of him. Maybe he’s being drawn home and is looking for a reason to make it happen.