Why do you need God/religion?

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Ah, you could be telling my story from a few years ago. I didn’t have it all, but I sure had enough! And there was no need and no room in my life for God.

You might start by telling us what you think is the purpose of your life. Where did you come from, why are you here, where are you going? What’s the point of your life? What’s the point of human existence at all?

You might also tell us why you’ve posted your question. Are you feeling some sort of tug, or are you just goofing off? In other words, are you sincerely looking for answers to your question?
 
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FreeThinker:
I’m just more concerned with doing good here on earth rather than worrying about an afterlife.
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Why bother doing good on earth? because it makes you feel good? or takes away some of the guilt? What is the basis for caring for others?
You may feel the need because you parents planted something inside you that makes you feel guilty if you don’t but will your kids feel the same way?
 
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Poisson:
Or maybe the very reason he’s here is because the Holy Spirit has stired up inside of him. Maybe he’s being drawn home and is looking for a reason to make it happen.
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Maybe. Maybe not.

The combination of the user name he chose (atheists are free from the yoke of religion AND they think, rather than have a priest or church think for them) and the smarmy nature of his posts make me think not.

He needs to look to his own motivation for being here.
 
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FreeThinker:
Scanner, great reply

My question is truly genuine. I will put this another way that some of you may not like. I look at religion as a sort of “club”. Now I’m searching for which “club” to join. I was raised Catholic so that’s the “club” I usually see and when I see how the other members act and treat each other, even though God has plainly laid out the framework for us, I would rather want nothing to do with those people. I have a real problem with the “do as I say not as I do” crowd, and judging by the amount of mean, rude and inconsiderate acts in this world there must be plenty of religious people that fall into this catagory. If this is how the “good and rightous” people act, you can count me out!

My first 17 years were full of mass, Catholic school, and good parents which is where my value system came from. It just seems that you can instill and follow good morality, and how to treat one another, without belonging to a religious organization.

For me those other commandments don’t seem that hard.

Thanks for all your points of view.
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Freethinker, seems you just can’t abide sinners. People always seem to go on and on about the Church being full of hypocrites and I won’t argue that. However, I think, like Peter, who proclaimed he’d follow Christ anywhere even unto death, we just don’t know how ill equipped we are to live our words. We just don’t recognize the Tempter or we don’t see our faults and failings as clearly as God does (or you do.) The difference in your attitude and God’s, may come down to Jesus coming down to earth to join “the club” then mounting the Cross to save “the club”, the whole dirty lot of us ( Mary Magdalens, Thomases, Peters, Pauls, Matthews, Zaccheuses, etc.), not when we are perfect but now while we still “stinketh”.
 
Free Thinker,

In a word, it’s “wholeness.” I have to assume you’re here because of something other than idle time. After all, there are plenty of other websites that you could visit to stave off boredom.

I mostly argue with Protestants, and I have almost no idea how to talk to non-believers about the Church. Suffice it to say, though, if you’re not exploring the universe through this great Church, then you’re missing out on something. Why should you be “religious?” Again, “wholeness.” Moreover, “truth, goodness, and beauty.” The things of this world simply aren’t enough.

Read Chesterton. He’ll rock your world.
 
The Barrister:
Maybe. Maybe not.

The combination of the user name he chose (atheists are free from the yoke of religion AND they think, rather than have a priest or church think for them) and the smarmy nature of his post makes me think not.

He needs to look to his own motivation for being here.
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“Smarmy”; I like the sound of that. I just had to look it up.
 
Freethinker,

Whether you know it or not, the Holy Spirit is working in you!:yup:

The simple answer to your original question is that ALL happiness is fleeting without God. Material goods, sexual satisfaction, physical attributes, money and other earthly pleasures may provide a feeling of happiness, but it is ever so fleeting. Can you think of anyone who has great earthly wealth that is satisfied and doesn’t seek more? Just look to those in the secular world that we deem “successful”. Celebrities, sports figures, politicians, wealthy executives…ALL riddled with divorce, drug-addiction, depression, and on and on.

Why? They CAN’T (and we CAN’T) find happiness in secular society. Only GOD can provide true happiness and satisfaction. The other is a trick of the devil.

You are seeking happiness, my friend. And He is waiting with open arms.

As to which “club” you join to get there? The only one started, guided and protected by Him…the Catholic Church!

:blessyou:
 
Freethinker,

Your question seems to be: Why believe that God exists?

Well … why believe the Earth exists? Because it truly does. Same with God. If you do not believe God exists, can I ask why?

If, on the other hand, you do believe God is your creator, why would you want to ignore that fact even if life is pretty good? We all want to believe what is actually true versus some kind of false version of reality.

BTW, you realize that things being pretty good for you right now are likely to change. Trajedy is part of life. How you deal with it may be quite disfunctional without God’s help. If you believe that man is the power that actually dominates, then you will likely have trouble dealing with future trajedies, as your sense of reality will hamper you. However, when you become conscious of your helplessness, then you will seek to unite yourself with the powers that actually do dominate.

If you get a chance, I recommend this lectures from the Harvard Classics (1909-1814) bartleby.com/60/221.html

Here’s an excerpt:
… the root of religion: the attempt of man, conscious of his helplessness, to unite himself with the powers which do actually dominate.

… religion is universal in two senses. On the one hand it springs from a universal need. On the other hand, it possesses a universal value, and cannot fail, however much of error or blindness there may be in it, to elevate and dignify life.** True religion is better than false, but it is not less certain that religion is better than irreligion.**
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I used to have deistic tendencies. That is, I used to be one of those guys who believed in a Creator, but was not as convinced that the Creator interacts with his creation (doubts about supernatural revelation, yet certain of the natural revelation of God).

Then, I began to doubt so much, that I began to even doubt my doubt. 😉 I asked myself: Would I create something just to simply ignore it? I don’t think so. That would be absurd. If I were a Creator, I would interact with my creation. Thus, the supernatural Creator must have, in my opinion, interacted with his creation at certain times in history. Does history suggest this? I think so. I don’t really believe Abraham would have come up with the idea to circumcise himself and his tribe all by himself. If there was ever a proof of some supernatural interaction by God, it is circumcision. 🙂

There are other arguments for believing in God here:

Arguments for God’s Existence
God bless,

Dave
 
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FreeThinker:
Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”. I was raised strictly Catholic for my first 17 years. I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free. Sunday comes and Sunday goes. My question is “Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” If you answer “to be thankful for what I have” then I believe I should continue on my current path because this is what God-free has led to. I guess everything could be bigger and better but I’m happy with what I have, which is more than plenty. I won’t buy an answer based on scare tactics - “you’ll burn in hell!”, and I’m not looking for an answer full of “bible babble”. I’ve heard plenty of that the last 16 years and it really doesn’t change my outlook because life is looking fine.

So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?
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I’m going to answer without looking at what other people have written first. Then I’ll look at what they say and see if I have more to add or want to amend what I said. The answer is you don’t. You don’t need a belief in God. You don’t need a religion. You can live your life entirely as it is without it. God doesn’t need you to believe in Him to exist, and your lack of belief in Him doesn’t invalidate His existence. So my question to you is this… Why are you asking? What are you missing? Believing in God certainly isn’t going to get you a bigger house, a better car, a more stable life. Burning in hell doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in God… how can an eternity spent without God matter if you don’t have Him in your life now? You wouldn’t notice the difference. So the only person who can answer the question of what you are missing by not believing in God is you. And I’m guessing that you know the answer to the question but either don’t want to acknowledge it or simply don’t realize you know it.
 
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FreeThinker:
Honestly, I don’t think have a “statement of purpose”, which may be a partial motive for this thread. I think most people would say that “to get to heaven” is their purpose. But it also seems that everyone has their own opinion on what heaven is, reading these forums kind of proves that. People have all sorts of ideas and the truth is that no one really knows so I guess I’m just more concerned with doing good here on earth rather than worrying about an afterlife.

I guess that last part could be my purpose.
Thanks again to all.
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Hi, FreeThinker!

Here’s my rather simplistic view toward your question…

Throughout my 50-some years, I (like MANY here, I’ll bet!) have on occasion asked the same questions (although, sadly for me, my “path” to this point in my life appears to have been a bit “rockier” than yours appears to have been - good for you, my friend! 🙂 ). Recently, very recently in fact, a simple, seven-word phrase managed to bring everything into focus for me. Here is that phrase:

*Man was created as an eternal being. *

Let me say that again, and this time really think about it…

Man was created as an eternal being.

This, my friend, is what it all comes down to. If you accept your own eternal nature, you cannot deny that the word “eternal” simply does not apply to anything you’ve accumulated to this point, or will yet accumulate until the day you die… your material goods, your personal philosophies, your earthly relationships, none of it! It all stays here - you go on.

Looking at things in the context of that seven-word phrase, it becomes really quite a simple matter: If you “buy into” the phrase, no further explanation should be necessary… if you do not “buy into” it, no further explanation will suffice.

The rest is just details…

a pilgrim
 
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FreeThinker:
Hi everyone,
I am what my father calls a “lapsed Catholic”. I was raised strictly Catholic for my first 17 years. I am now 32, married to the perfect woman, excellent stable job, perfect health, stress free lifestyle, great house, cars, etc… and completely Godless and religion-free. Sunday comes and Sunday goes. My question is “Why do I need a belief in God and a religion to follow?” If you answer “to be thankful for what I have” then I believe I should continue on my current path because this is what God-free has led to. I guess everything could be bigger and better but I’m happy with what I have, which is more than plenty. I won’t buy an answer based on scare tactics - “you’ll burn in hell!”, and I’m not looking for an answer full of “bible babble”. I’ve heard plenty of that the last 16 years and it really doesn’t change my outlook because life is looking fine.

So help me out here, Is the lifestyle I’m leading fine for me or am I missing out somewhere?
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If everything you have were taken away from you today as,dare I compare you w/ Job, who did believe in God, had it ALL as you say you do and as a test ALL was taken from him…where and to whom would you turn if the same happened to you?🙂
 
whoops, sorry about the empty post, new here. :o

FreeThinker said:

“Honestly, I don’t think have a “statement of purpose”, which may be a partial motive for this thread. I think most people would say that “to get to heaven” is their purpose. But it also seems that everyone has their own opinion on what heaven is, reading these forums kind of proves that. People have all sorts of ideas and the truth is that no one really knows so I guess I’m just more concerned with doing good here on earth rather than worrying about an afterlife”

FreeThinker, I’d have to ask about that last sentance, why? Why would you be concerned about doing good here on earth when all the good you could possibly do is temporal? Forgotten, lost, as if it never were. Without God, FreeThinker everything, your love of you wife; children if you have them, friends, loved ones…everyone, is temporal therefore I’d argue, rendered eventually without meaning.

I felt much the same as you did not very long ago at all. I’d like to make one suggestion if I may. Christ told us to knock at the door and He would open it. You have your doubts about Faith. Kneel before Him and express your doubts. If you want to believe (as it sounds like you may) express this too. Ask Him to help you believe.

I may get a backlashing for this statement but I will risk it. I think very few Christians live with zero doubt. It is not a requirement to have zero doubt. As the saying goes, that is why they call it Faith. Ask Him for assistance in this. Possibly pick up a good book (may I suggest “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis) and read it.

My prayers are with you FreeThinker.
 
FreeThinker,

Perhaps the first hurdle is to come to a conclusion about the existence of God. Some of the prior posts contain great suggestions for reading the arguments that logically prove the existence of God, and I would highly recommend that you refer to them.

Once you believe that God exists, you must then ponder what that means for you. God is infinite in power and love, and He created everything out of nothing, and He sustains all that He created. All that we are and all that we possess comes from God. Meditate on the creator and then turn your view toward yourself. You are the creature and He is the almighty. His love is a consuming fire that motivates His creative desires. He loves each of us beyond anything we can comprehend.

Continue to examine all that God has created. See in His creation a reflection of His power, glory, and majesty. Then, once again, turn your view back upon yourself. Compare that which you are with what you know of the creator. Doing this prayerfully will help you begin to know why it is important to have faith, hope, and love in your life. You are totally dependent on God for each breath you take. Consider what that means. Consider the implications. Consider how much you should love the creator.

We must never love the gifts more than the giver. You are comfortable and content with your belongings. Your belongings and relationships are gifts from God. You must see beyond the gifts and see the giver. Love the giver…love God.

This is a beginning point. If you truly love God and recognize the wondrous love that He has shown us by giving His Divine Son, Jesus, to atone for our sins, you will be on the first leg of a great adventure. This adventure will lead you to hunger for the Holy Eucharist and the truths revealed by the church which is the body of Christ. This journey of faith and love satisfies like nothing else. St. Augustine said it best when he pointed out that a man’s heart cannot rest until it rests in God.
 
FreeThinker,

You may be interested in the following passage from St. Faustina Kowalska – Her Life and Mission by Maria Tarnawska. As a little bit of background, Saint Faustina was a mystic who saw and heard Christ multiple times before the time in her life described below:

"How many times she went to Him, and gazing towards the tabernacle, asked, ‘Are You really Jesus? … Jesus, are You not an illusion?’. And Jesus reasured her patiently: “My love deceives no one.” (p 130)
I have one simple argument for the Catholic life for you, which is: you haven’t scratched your potential to love.

If you choose to accept the Holy Spirit’s power back into your life, then you can gain the ability to allow God to work extraordinary love through you. Indeed, this allowing God to work through you is the only way that a person can actually progress towards the meaning and perfection he desires and the only way he can come close to living up to the standards set by himself and others. Now, it will take much more writing to explain how all Christians fail to allow this to happen to any great level for an extended period of time, but the great saints have and some people whom I respect immensely seem to have done so pretty well. Although, the norm is that we allow Him to work through us to a great level from time to time and usually only when most needed. So, don’t judge a Christian based upon his “downtime” when the worthless, wicked person is not allowing God to work through him very much (or sadly, at all), but rather on his “ontimes” when he is allowing God’s love to flow nearly uninhibited.

Please Father, send us your Holy Spirit so that we may give holy example to Freethinker and provide him with knowledge of your power in all our lives and the great gift of your Holy Spirit that you wish to give him. I ask this in the name of Christ, Our Lord, via dear Mother Mary. Amen.

Freethinker, here’s what you have to gain: a deeper love for your family, friends, and others that you never even realized coud exist.

Please let us know if you want to know how to start.

Peace,
Chris
 
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FreeThinker:
My question is truly genuine. I will put this another way that some of you may not like. I look at religion as a sort of “club”. Now I’m searching for which “club” to join. I was raised Catholic so that’s the “club” I usually see and when I see how the other members act and treat each other, even though God has plainly laid out the framework for us, I would rather want nothing to do with those people. I have a real problem with the “do as I say not as I do” crowd, and judging by the amount of mean, rude and inconsiderate acts in this world there must be plenty of religious people that fall into this catagory. If this is how the “good and righteous” people act, you can count me out!

My first 17 years were full of mass, Catholic school, and good parents which is where my value system came from. It just seems that you can instill and follow good morality, and how to treat one another, without belonging to a religious organization.

For me those other commandments don’t seem that hard.

Thanks for all your points of view.
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I invariably find this to be an interesting argument. There probably are an equal number of people who violate the bounds of rudeness and immorality who believe in God as there are who don’t, so I can’t disagree with your statements about the club of “righteous”. But why would you deny God’s existence in order to belong to the “club” that doesn’t acknowledge Him yet still has members that behave badly rather than accept God’s existence and belong to the “club” that also has members that behave badly but nonetheless worships Him?

If in fact all of the commandments are that easy to follow, why choose the path of least resistance? Could it possibly be fear that the rules, if you actually felt obligated to follow them rather than “being a good person” by following them would be tougher than they appear, and you would join the ranks of so-called-hypocrites, who despite your chastisements, are actually trying to live moral lives whilst remaining fully human? Are you afraid of surrendering your personal glory (I am a good person for doing this on my own, I have good values because I do this with no help, I have accomplished this by myself) to God? I don’t know where God is leading you, but those are some of the thoughts that occur to me as I read your posts.
 
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Bigwill:
I’ve read Pascal’s Wager, and I don’t find it to be very convincing. Is that really faith? Believe, because what have you got to lose?
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It does seem a little bit too easy and not very deep at all. However, consider this story:

There was a woman who’s husband treated her poorly. He ridiculed her every chance he got and treated her like a maid but with less respect.

She went to her mother and asked her what she could do to hurt her husband as badly as he had hurt her. Her mother told her to spend the next 6 weeks being extremely kind to him and then he would fall in love with her again. Then when he professed his love to her she could tell him she was leaving him.

She thought that would be a great idea and ran home to fix her husband a wonderful meal. At first he was gruff to her but during the next 6 weeks she ignored his flaws and treated him with even more kindness.

After the 6 weeks were up her mother asked her how things were going. She said, “Just wonderful! Just last night he professed his love to me and told me he was so happy he doesn’t know how he could ever live without me.”

Her mother responded, “Now you can tell him you’re leaving him.”

"Oh, Mother, she replied, “how could I leave him? I love him so much!”

This is a good story for those in toubled marriages but it also works for Pascal’s Wager. Sometimes we do things for one reason but God points us in the right direction.

God Bless,
Denise
 
FreeThinker,

My question is, “How can there not be a God?”

Assuming the Big Bang Theory is true (very well could be), there was primordial molecules that caused the explosion which resulted in the creation of planets, stars, galaxies, etc.

But the thinking person would ask, “How did these very basic molecules get there in the first place?” Maybe from another explosion…or another series of explosions…but ultimately there has to be a Prime Mover or First Unmoved Mover (these are philosophical terms for God) to have created this original mixture of gas and chemical molecules. Something, can’t come from nothing.

A book’s contents cannot be written without a writer to type the words and create concepts.

A universe CANNOT exist (which is a fact) without a First Unmoved Mover or or Prime Mover who we know to be God. If there is no God, then you and I do not exist.

If one truly does not beleive an all-powerful God exists, then that person is probably mentally ill.
 
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but there is going to be a time (very soon might I add) when God will be known to all mankind no matter what your beliefs are! For more information on why this is, read up on this link ----------> garabandal.org

Throughout history, God has chastised the world when society veered too far off the tracks. If our society today is not chastised, then God will owe a personal apology to Saddam and Gomorrah and all the other areas of the world that He has punished (a cleansing period if you wish). The ending result of a purification period is always good though, at least for some period of time.

Right now there is a great spiritual battle going on between good and evil. Everyone is involved in it whether they choose to be or not. In the end, you can either be for God, or against God! Which side will you end up on?
 
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