Why do you think Catholics don't attend mass?

[MrS]

Tell me where the unity is? A quick “peace be with you” without any eye contact is not fellowship or unity.

If there isn’t any element of bonding or fellowshiping in the mass it isn’t going to happen.

Do you say that Communion has not implications of fellowship? It is purely a individual event?

The union we have is because of the Eucharist, and in the Eucharist.

Your implication is that if there are more people at a Mass, there is more unity ???

Yes, Communion has the “implication”, the reality of fellowship… but it is in Christ… and that is a reason why those outside the Church can not partake of the Eucharist.

We go to Mass to partake of Christ, not of each other. If fellowship was the reason… why not just be Baptist??

The Source and Summit of the Faith… the Eucharist.

No Catholic priests, … no Eucharist…
No Eucharist… no Church.

No way should we ever compromise to an idea that if there are none in the pews, there is no Church.

 

[4HisChurch]

This is crazy. i have been a member of Many parishes due to my moving alot. I have been to the one I currently attend for a year. I can tell you now that if I died tommorrow, nobody would even notice that I wasn’t in Mass. The mass there is beautiful but there is NO fellowship. not even coffee donuts…nothing.

Tell me where the unity is? A quick “peace be with you” without any eye contact is not fellowship or unity.

If there isn’t any element of bonding or fellowshiping in the mass it isn’t going to happen.

Do you say that Communion has not implications of fellowship? It is purely a individual event?

As PuzzleAnnie said, the Mass is a “participation in the sacrifice of Calvary”. It is not about “fellowship.” Fellowship should be obtained in the everyday ins and outs of the Christian walk.

Are you involved in the parishes you attend? Do you cantor, usher, serve on any committees, go to daily Mass? If so, I bet there would be people in those parishes who would miss you if you were to suddenly pass away.

The idea that we come together merely for “fellowship” is a very Protestant one. The unity in “communion” is the unity of one Faith. Shaking hands and eating donuts does not unity make.

 

[santaro75]

As PuzzleAnnie said, the Mass is a “participation in the sacrifice of Calvary”. It is not about “fellowship.” Fellowship should be obtained in the everyday ins and outs of the Christian walk.

Are you involved in the parishes you attend? Do you cantor, usher, serve on any committees, go to daily Mass? If so, I bet there would be people in those parishes who would miss you if you were to suddenly pass away.

The idea that we come together merely for “fellowship” is a very Protestant one. The unity in “communion” is the unity of one Faith. Shaking hands and eating donuts does not unity make.

I am pounding my head against a brick wall here.:banghead:

We are supposed to offer up the Mass as one. We are to be in friendship with eachother as with Christ. I go to daily mass with my parents when i am home and they have it in a small chapel. they all know eachother well and the sense of community is strong. the mass is proper and they all pray for eachother. That is how it is supposed to be.

At my church i go to daily mass about 2-3 times per week. people sit as far away from eachother as possible and avoid looking at eachother at all cost. When i say hi, they look at me as if i am an alien. Then when it comes time for “peace be with you” you are lucky to even get any eye contact. People all there for their own personal experience. there isn’t anything “group” about it. That is NOT how it is supposed to be.

I agree the liturgy isn’t supposed to be a social fest. It is a prayer. But the prayer is supposed to be done as a group in unity and friendship and in one voice, one heart to our one lord. Not a room full of strangers who could care less about the person sitting next to them.

 

[Tom317]

I wonder, if Catholics who do not attend Mass were personally invited by Christ to a meal, would they attend the meal, or would they stay home and watch television?

 

[Tom317]

I am pounding my head against a brick wall here.:banghead:

We are supposed to offer up the Mass as one. We are to be in friendship with eachother as with Christ. I go to daily mass with my parents when i am home and they have it in a small chapel. they all know eachother well and the sense of community is strong. the mass is proper and they all pray for eachother. That is how it is supposed to be.

At my church i go to daily mass about 2-3 times per week. people sit as far away from eachother as possible and avoid looking at eachother at all cost. When i say hi, they look at me as if i am an alien. Then when it comes time for “peace be with you” you are lucky to even get any eye contact. People all there for their own personal experience. there isn’t anything “group” about it. That is NOT how it is supposed to be.

I agree the liturgy isn’t supposed to be a social fest. It is a prayer. But the prayer is supposed to be done as a group in unity and friendship and in one voice, one heart to our one lord. Not a room full of strangers who could care less about the person sitting next to them.

Can you tell me where the document is that tells us “what the Mass is supposed to be?” You seem to know what we all should be doing at Mass, so there must be books and documents you can point to.

 

[Genesis315]

Here are some recent popes on the Mass if anyone is interested:

John Paul II, Ecclesia De Eucharistia
Paul VI, Mysterium Fidei
Pius XII, Mediator Dei
Leo XIII, Mirae Caritatis

 

[Pug]

We are supposed to offer up the Mass as one. We are to be in friendship with eachother as with Christ.

There is a true chord of unity at mass. However, the participants need not know eachother personally. Here is a description of the unity of the body by John Chrysostom

For what is the bread? It is the body of Christ. And what do those who receive it become? The Body of Christ – not many bodies but one body. For as bread is completely one, though made of up many grains of wheat, and these, albeit unseen, remain nonetheless present, in such a way that their difference is not apparent since they have been made a perfect whole, so too are we mutually joined to one another and together united with Christ

Also, we are united to all those in heaven who are praising God. As we are built up by receiving, the Church is built up. Here is a quote from John Paul 2

1. The gift of Christ and his Spirit which we receive in Eucharistic communion superabundantly fulfils the yearning for fraternal unity deeply rooted in the human heart; at the same time it elevates the experience of fraternity already present in our common sharing at the same Eucharistic table to a degree which far surpasses that of the simple human experience of sharing a meal. Through her communion with the body of Christ the Church comes to be ever more profoundly “in Christ in the nature of a sacrament, that is, a sign and instrument of intimate unity with God and of the unity of the whole human race”.44
   The seeds of disunity, which daily experience shows to be so deeply rooted in humanity as a result of sin, are countered by* the unifying power* of the body of Christ. The Eucharist, precisely by building up the Church, creates human community.

With the increase of charity received during mass, I’d hope that after mass, someone could offer you a smile.

 

[prv]

There is a true chord of unity at mass. However, the participants need not know eachother personally. Here is a description of the unity of the body by John Chrysostom

Also, we are united to all those in heaven who are praising God. As we are built up by receiving, the Church is built up. Here is a quote from John Paul 2

With the increase of charity received during mass, I’d hope that after mass, someone could offer you a smile.

As noted in no.24, as quoted above, the Eucharist makes the community, not the reverse.

 

[santaro75]

Can you tell me where the document is that tells us “what the Mass is supposed to be?” You seem to know what we all should be doing at Mass, so there must be books and documents you can point to.

yeah read the gospels and the epistles. what the church is and what we are supposed to be for eachother is pretty clear.

what isn’t clear to me is why our leadership doesn’t put any value on it.

there should be no such thing as a lonely Catholic that belongs to a parish. But there are many. myself included.

 

[Pug]

As noted in no.24, as quoted above, the Eucharist makes the community, not the reverse.

Yes. My mind goes on a tangent as I read your comment. I recall that the one of the kinds of fruit of the mass goes to the whole Militant and Suffering Church, even though they are not at that particular mass. Maybe this isn’t quite a tangent.

Note: it is more in my mind that baptism incorporates, and communion reinforces that incorporation. or something like.

 

[Tom317]

yeah read the gospels and the epistles. what the church is and what we are supposed to be for eachother is pretty clear.

what isn’t clear to me is why our leadership doesn’t put any value on it.

there should be no such thing as a lonely Catholic that belongs to a parish. But there are many. myself included.

I do not think anyone would argue that Christians are to love and support each other…that is without question. However, the Mass is NOT the place for that.

 

[Genesis315]

You can’t just show up to Mass and hope to make friends–it’s not a social hour. Pick up a bulletin and look at the various apostolates, clubs, and other groups. Join the Legion of Mary, go to a Bible Study, volunteer at the soup kitchen, help out with the youth group, join the men’s or women’s guild, go to a pancake breakfast or picnic, etc., etc.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Loss of the sense of the Sacred at Mass.

Lack of reverence. (For example, the high noise level before Mass owing to all the loud talking either in the church building or in the vestibule.)

[Have they universally stopped the procedure of having ushers act as traffic cops during Holy Communion, virtually forcing people to receive … ?]

Focus on “ceremony”; dilution of the essentials.

In my personal opinion, the Holy Father has started the process of returning the Sacred and reverence in small ways, gradually increasing with time… for example, the priest-celebrant now performs the purification ritual.

A little while ago, a change was made to require the wine be poured into individual cups BEFORE the Consecration, rather than pouring the Precious Blood into the individual cups after the Consecration.

I expect that as time goes on, there will be more small gradual changes that will re-instill procedural reverence into the rubrics of the Mass.

 

[Chickamauga]

there should be no such thing as a lonely Catholic that belongs to a parish. But there are many. myself included

I am also a “lonely Catholic;” a cross I bear patiently. Had I wanted instant companionship gratification I would have joined a club. I did not convert to Catholicism for social reasons, expect to find companionship with Christ. One of the things that attrachted me to Catholicism is that I could go into a Catholic church to pray without being desended upon by total strangers trying to get me to join their church. I the type of person that needs my space.

Besides most protestant churches are locked in the middle of the day but not the Catholic. That seemed pretty welcoming. Of course, in a Catholic church you’re never alone. Christ is there in the Eucharist.

 

[santaro75]

I do not think anyone would argue that Christians are to love and support each other…that is without question. However, the Mass is NOT the place for that.

Mass is not the place to develop that. However our unity and love for one another as God’s family and elect should should be expressed in our worship.

 

[Tom317]

Mass is not the place to develop that. However our unity and love for one another as God’s family and elect should should be expressed in our worship.

I agree and during the sign of peace we do exactly that. The rest of the liturgy is not meant for fellowship, that comes outside of the Mass.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I agree and during the sign of peace we do exactly that. The rest of the liturgy is not meant for fellowship, that comes outside of the Mass.

I recall a discussion some years ago (decades ago?) when the “sign of peace” was being discussed. Seems to me that clergy-person declared there was vertical prayer and also “horizontal prayer”. And the sign of peace was part of the horizontal prayer.

Sorry, but with all due respect, it made no sense to me … horizontal prayer … I was curious about cubic prayer or orthogonal prayer. Seems to me that someone just went about creating a buzzword just for the heck of it.

One priest said he was at a seminar for priests and religious and the person leading one of the prayer sessions led everyone, including bishops, in prayer to the east wind and so on… He later tracked that prayer to a manual on witchcraft. Pure 100% paganism.

A lot of this strange “stuff” has leaked its way into the Mass.

I’m thinking that the priest who recalled the event was Father Mitch Pacwa, now at EWTN and he wrote a book that addressed some of this: “Catholics and the New Age”.

 

[Tom317]

I recall a discussion some years ago (decades ago?) when the “sign of peace” was being discussed. Seems to me that clergy-person declared there was vertical prayer and also “horizontal prayer”. And the sign of peace was part of the horizontal prayer.

Sorry, but with all due respect, it made no sense to me … horizontal prayer … I was curious about cubic prayer or orthogonal prayer. Seems to me that someone just went about creating a buzzword just for the heck of it.

One priest said he was at a seminar for priests and religious and the person leading one of the prayer sessions led everyone, including bishops, in prayer to the east wind and so on… He later tracked that prayer to a manual on witchcraft. Pure 100% paganism.

A lot of this strange “stuff” has leaked its way into the Mass.

I’m thinking that the priest who recalled the event was Father Mitch Pacwa, now at EWTN and he wrote a book that addressed some of this: “Catholics and the New Age”.

Either way, that is the only place when fellowship caan take place.

 

[4HisChurch]

IWe are supposed to offer up the Mass as one. We are to be in friendship with eachother as with Christ. I go to daily mass with my parents when i am home and they have it in a small chapel. they all know eachother well and the sense of community is strong. the mass is proper and they all pray for eachother. That is how it is supposed to be.

At my church i go to daily mass about 2-3 times per week. people sit as far away from eachother as possible and avoid looking at eachother at all cost. When i say hi, they look at me as if i am an alien. Then when it comes time for “peace be with you” you are lucky to even get any eye contact. People all there for their own personal experience. there isn’t anything “group” about it. That is NOT how it is supposed to be.

I agree the liturgy isn’t supposed to be a social fest. It is a prayer. But the prayer is supposed to be done as a group in unity and friendship and in one voice, one heart to our one lord. Not a room full of strangers who could care less about the person sitting next to them.

Oh, I see now. I can understand and sympathize with your experience at your church. Its really hard, sometimes, to break through the “shell” some people put around themselves, and its very difficult when you have the majority of a parish doing that.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Either way, that is the only place when fellowship caan take place.

Actually, some Catholic parishes have coffee and doughnuts after Mass in a meeting room. In addition, there are other social events on a frequent basis. The handshake of peace is a recent addition; it wasn’t there for the first 40 years that I went to Mass and everyone seemed to know or get to know everyone else.

True fellowship is much more than a very brief handshake.