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Tom317
Guest
Yes of course, yet the Mass is NOT the place.
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santaro75
Guest
I think i am being misunderstood.
What i am trying trying to say is that the Mass should be offered up with all of us as a christian family. The fellowship of the Mass should be a fellowship of Worship and prayer. then the community should commune with Christ and through The Eucharist(1cor12:12) we commune with eachother becoming one body. That is what the Mass is for. A true family that is in fellowship with eachother. The Mass is where that fellowship should be kindled through the Eucharist and the liturgy of the word. We should be a family not as the world knows it but as God demands.
Right now, I go to church and i am a stranger amongst my “supposed family” of God.
I really think there is room for reform here. And as soon as i have a stable living situation I am going to make it happen because this is what i see is one of the biggest problems in the catholic church today. there is zero excuse for Christians to be cold and aloof to eachother.
When is the last time you went to a family reunion and nobody said hi to eachother.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
If someone wants other people to recognize them, then it is just a matter of finding a committee (most parishes have at least 50) and, literally, just showing up.
Just show up.
In no time at all, you and the other parishioners will get to know one another.
I know this sounds simplistic.
Just show up. Or, when there is some very small event, get there early and ask what you can do to help. Someone will give you a task. Or lingering around after an event, and asking what you can do to help; there is always clean-up to do. You will quickly be appreciated.
It takes very little and soon at Mass, people will give you nods, and smiles, and you will feel the warmth of recognition and they will know you and you will know them.
In our parish, someone complained about the very thing, at a parish meeting, and a large number of volunteers called out at the same time: “Just show up”.
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Lance
Guest
Poor catechesis. We need the good sisters in habits who understood and taught the true catechism, not the 1960’s versions who began to talk about women priests, birth control and other Cafeteria Catholic beliefs. The 1960’s nuns morphed into the lay CCD teachers we have today who were not properly catechized so how can we expect them to do a good and proper job when they are not trained?
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Tom317
Guest
Respectfully, I think you do not understand the Mass. Yes, fellowship is a wonderful and needed thing, yet in the Mass we are in union with each other and Christ. We become–ever so briefly–united with Christ. The important element is not us, it is Christ, who is at the very center of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
You can have plans to change the Mass all you want, yet it will not and cannot happen.
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4HisChurch
Guest
Lance, you have an excellent point. Prior to the 60’s, nuns taught generations of children what actually goes on at Mass and that attending Mass was an obligation for us to fulfill as Catholics. Now, its anything goes for a good number of Catholics.
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Nohome
Guest
The “good sisters” are gone, virtually extinct. Their numbers dwindled in an even more dramatic fashion than priests. Frankly, they are not a viable solution to the problem. What is Plan B?
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Tom317
Guest
There is no plan B, we must return to the true faith–period.
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Lance
Guest
Plan ‘A’ and ‘B’ are the same. Pray for more people to enter the vocations. Support your parish with your time, talent and money. Pray for good seminaries to teach our priests the true faith.
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4HisChurch
Guest
Many of the orders that became liberalized after Vatican II *are *almost extinct. But many orders that are more traditional are growing in number. There is hope.
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santaro75
Guest
respectfully i think you are mistaken. answer me this, what did Jesus want for us? More than anything else?
its not about changing the mass. it is about setting it free and unleashing its greatness
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santaro75
Guest
Not change it. unleash it and set it free.
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Jennifer_G
Guest
They forgot another, which my dad always says - “I did my duties. I was an altar boy!”. He’s now a Lutheran (in name only now, since he doesn’t even go to church anymore. He’d rather get up at 5:30am and buy coffee/bagels).
Those reasons could apply to any denominations, too. I go to church for Holy Communion myself.
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MrS
Guest
…once again… it is not ours to “set free”. Your understanding seems to be centered on the mistake that the laity really are in charge or in possesion of the Mass.
What does Jesus want for us??? Himself!! But we need to change ourselves to be able to love with the will, as He does. Changing Him (the Mass) to fit our “needs” is backwards and fruitless,… and self defeating.
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Lance
Guest
Here is an interesting thread on the increase of vocations among the ‘Good Sisters’.
More Young Women Entering…
More Young Women Entering…
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OriginalJS
Guest
I grew up in the 1950s. Those were in some Catholics’ opinions the “salad years.” Masses were packed. Since then Mass attendance in much of Europe and in most English speaking countries has declined. The sermons - we used to call them “homilies” - are much better today than they were in the 50’s. In fact, many of them at that time were miserable. I didn’t find out priests could really preach until years later!
I think the main reason for the decline in the United States and Canada, at least, is that Catholics have become fully accepted into American society and don’t feel like they are walking on eggs anymore so that they have to look good for the protestants. When JFK ran for president in 1960 there was still a lot of serious debate whether Americans would ever elect a Catholic president.
I remember being assigned to a military training school in the late winter of 1960. One evening all the Catholics were asked to meet with our priest-chaplain. His message to us was that as Catholics our behavior had to be exemplary.
Now Catholics are a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court and it doesn’t bother anybody. This would have been unthinkable 100 years ago. The social pressure that forced a cohesiveness among Catholics is just gone, gone, gone.
Where it used to be something of a social burden to be Catholic, it has become fun to be Catholic. The Church is there when needed, the rituals are beautiful and the order of worship is easy to follow. Now that it is fun, Catholics can afford to criticize sermons - something they would never have done 60 years ago, at least not in front of protestants.
Believe this or not, but in the 50’s all the Catholics I knew could recite the holydays of obligation! Now we get reminders in the mail and one year we received a magnetic reminder card to fasten to the refrigerator. We didn’t eat meat on Fridays and fasted before going to Mass. That’s gone.
I think the main reason for the decline in the United States and Canada, at least, is that Catholics have become fully accepted into American society and don’t feel like they are walking on eggs anymore so that they have to look good for the protestants. When JFK ran for president in 1960 there was still a lot of serious debate whether Americans would ever elect a Catholic president.
I remember being assigned to a military training school in the late winter of 1960. One evening all the Catholics were asked to meet with our priest-chaplain. His message to us was that as Catholics our behavior had to be exemplary.
Now Catholics are a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court and it doesn’t bother anybody. This would have been unthinkable 100 years ago. The social pressure that forced a cohesiveness among Catholics is just gone, gone, gone.
Where it used to be something of a social burden to be Catholic, it has become fun to be Catholic. The Church is there when needed, the rituals are beautiful and the order of worship is easy to follow. Now that it is fun, Catholics can afford to criticize sermons - something they would never have done 60 years ago, at least not in front of protestants.
Believe this or not, but in the 50’s all the Catholics I knew could recite the holydays of obligation! Now we get reminders in the mail and one year we received a magnetic reminder card to fasten to the refrigerator. We didn’t eat meat on Fridays and fasted before going to Mass. That’s gone.
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santaro75
Guest
Jesus poured out his blood for us. he broke his body for us. He suffered and died for US. It was all for us. The Eucharist is for US to remember him. For us to experience him and to experience his love. Jesus does not need the Eucharist, We do.
I am not talking about any liturgical changes. I think the Mass is genius. So genius that it must be divine.
I am talking about us the recipients of the Mass. There is a breakdown. We don’t love eachother. We don’t care about eachother. We don’t act like a Family. (I am speaking about my general experience going to 12 churches regularly over the past 3 years, some longer some not as long but non of them really had any descent programs to create unity as a family. I know some parishes are probably much better) I believe that the Mass can be used to convert us to not love just Christ but to love eachother through Christ. Not in words but in reality.
I remember one Mass where I hugged the old lady next to me for no reason other than the Love of God was flowing in such a way that she looked like the cutest person on the planet and I had to hug her. Usually i restrain because unless the person is old, it is innappropriate to show such affection. That is the power of the Mass! That power can be set free to the average lay person with out much effort and I believe it is contagious. I know i am not alone here. there is at least one person reading that knows what i am talking about.
I’m rambling. Basically i think that the problem with the Mass is lack of Love.
"If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing."
I believe that when I brought my protestant friends to the mass and they were really turned off, that is why. there was no love or charity sensed in the congregation or the clergy.
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OriginalJS
Guest
Bingo! I have heard this before if not in exactly those words. Some have told me Mass looks like a large number of people going mindlessly through rehearsed motions and responses.
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MrS
Guest
I could probably understand this observation from a non or anti Catholic.
I feel the same way about watching NASCAR… smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_5_1.gif round and round we go, where we stop, nobody cares
I guess you have to be “connected” with your heart to really understand the unchanging beauty of the Mass.
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fix
Guest
I think the problem is not only do we not undestand the meaning of the mass but often we do not understand what love is. It is more than an emotion or a type of sentimentality.
If the way to gauge this experience is to see how folks look at each other or what physical actions are expressed or not expressed then we may conclude incorrectly that folks are unloving.
Let’s reverse it. If I look at some Protestant congregations I see all types stuff going on. Happy clappy music, gyrations, smiling, and laughing. Does that mean their faith is greater or they love God more? Is God more present there?
My point is we should use a proper reference if we want to understand these issues correctly.
The mass should not be about what we each get out of it.
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