Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

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Purgatory is a place that one goes to after death. It’s like arguing that you are here in the same room with me. No, you are not, no matter how wishfully you may think you are. Wishing does not make it so.
gee, nice to meet someone who knows all about me - and everything else…
Certain things are or are not - they aren’t dependant on anyone’s state of mind. Purgatory is one of them. I don’t have to “know everything” or “know all about you” to know that a living person is not in Purgatory. Purgatory is one of the realms of the dead.
 
Purgatory is a place that one goes to after death. It’s like arguing that you are here in the same room with me. No, you are not, no matter how wishfully you may think you are. Wishing does not make it so.
i am in Purgatory and if you are not, you are possibly on your way to Hell… meaning tht if you don’t suffer in this life and offer up those sufferings… you are etiher on your way to hell (because to “do right” involves suffering)… or you are on your way to a very long stay in Purg which i’ve heard is excrutiating… The saints say to begin your Purgatory NOW, in this life…
Certain things are or are not - they aren’t dependant on anyone’s state of mind.
no disagreement there…

certain things …

Like taxes… and death…

There are many things we ALL experience… but every soul has a unique relationship with God… and a unique journey to undertake in getting to Heaven…
 
God allowed Protestantism to occur for two reasons:

A) To punish the Catholics of that time, both laity and clergy, for not living up to the Church’s morals.

B) Because He allows free will of men like Luther and Calvin to let them invent their own doctrines, sects, etc.
 
i am in Purgatory and if you are not, you are possibly on your way to Hell… meaning tht if you don’t suffer in this life and offer up those sufferings… you are etiher on your way to hell (because to “do right” involves suffering)… or you are on your way to a very long stay in Purg which i’ve heard is excrutiating… The saints say to begin your Purgatory NOW, in this life…
You have demonstrated that what you understand to be “purgatory” in this life is actually just purification. The saints were speaking of undergoing purification in this life so that one does not have to suffer in Purgatory in the next. Purification of the soul from sin is a type of purgatory in the sense that both involve suffering and the removal of the temporal punishment due to sin; however, purification from sin is not the theological place that souls go to after death after departing from the body known as Purgatory. I can’t believe we’re still on this point… I thought we settled this one weeks ago.🤷
 
If your body doesn’t cease to function completely, to the point where someone calls an ambulance and has you taken away to the morgue pending notification of next of kin, then you are not in Purgatory. You are just deep in prayer. (And maybe having an asthma attack … 🤷 )

There is not such a thing as “my reality” and “your reality.” We all live in the same one.

The reality is that Purgatory is one of the states of the afterlife (the other two are Heaven and Hell). It does not occur during this life at all.
The reality is there is no purgatory. 🙂
 
Purgatory is a place that one goes to after death. It’s like arguing that you are here in the same room with me. No, you are not, no matter how wishfully you may think you are. Wishing does not make it so.

Certain things are or are not - they aren’t dependant on anyone’s state of mind. Purgatory is one of them. I don’t have to “know everything” or “know all about you” to know that a living person is not in Purgatory. Purgatory is one of the realms of the dead.
Like Peter Pan, Santa, the Easter Bunny the tooth fairy Purgatory is fantasy.
 
Hisalone,
Are you of the opinion that the only two states to ever exist in the afterlife are heaven and hell?
 
The reality is there is no purgatory. 🙂
According to protestants who rejected the true Church, correct. There is no purgatory in your eyes because that is not part of the tradition you have received. However, there is most certainly a purgatory, and believe it or not, I’m willing to bet it’s likely you believe in a form of purgatory of sorts.

You should read the early Church fathers, the first bishops appointed to take the place of the apostles. They clearly taught and believed in a place of final purification before entry into heaven. holysoulscrusade.org/early-fathers.html
Also in the book of Macabees, which you likely don’t have in your Bible but was part of the apostles Bibles and was part of the original canon of Scripture, they clearly taught that it was a good and pious thing to pray for the dead. I don’t think anyone has a right to take books out of the Bible after it had been canonized. Also, the Bible you may likely read (since your profile says “Christian”) came from the Catholic Church, and the individual books were not even put into a canon until the end of the 4th Century. Before that point, they were just books circulating around churches, and the early Church fathers decided which books were and were not part of the canon that you now read from (or at least part of it that you read from since your Bible likely lacks 7 OT books ;)). Lastly, the Church came before and existed before the Bible, and the early Church relied on apostolic Tradition. The books of the Bible were not written until decades after Christ formed his Church. Just some things to think and pray about.
 
God allowed Protestantism to occur for two reasons:

A) To punish the Catholics of that time, both laity and clergy, for not living up to the Church’s morals.

B) Because He allows free will of men like Luther and Calvin to let them invent their own doctrines, sects, etc.
Good points. I hadn’t given much thought to the fact that it was punishment for sins, but wouldn’t that fit in perfectly with how God deals with his people. If we look at the Old Testament, divisions were caused by sins, so it would make sense that during a time when many in the Church were committing sins and the Church was lacking in strict discipline and in need of moral reform that God would punish the people by sending divisions and sending people to break away from her and then go to war against her. Let’s remember that protestants killed many Catholics, burned many churches, and executed many many priests. There were sins on both sides, and God punished the Church for her lack of discipline. I pray that the Church today gets her discipline in order so that she will not again come under chastisement. :byzsoc:
 
Also, because they spread Christianity, that is, they spread the bible and they perform valid baptism.

Luke 9:xx "49 And John, answering, said: Master, we saw a certain man casting out devils in thy name: and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said to him: Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you."

Take it this way… Forbid them (protestants) not: for they (protestants) that are not against you (the Church) are for you (Christianity). In no way that protestant baptism is against Christianity! That’s also casting out devils in his name, isn’t it?

It was very clear in the statement that Jesus did not forbid the man using his name although the man was not one of his followers. He knew very well what happiness it would bring a person to be dispossesed of the devil. To validly baptize anyone is more important. But the man, being not a follower, will be damned! (see Matthew 7:21-23)

(What is wrong, though, is if the person who is exorcised starts glorifying the exorciser for his ‘borrowed’ powers - not Jesus! In other words, the person is giving credit to the wrong guy! On the other hand, protestant leaders tend to demonstrate they have those powers, too, (being able to christianize people) but not seeing the fact that they, still, are not followers of the authentic Church!):confused:
 
Please demonstrate this in scripture, lest it appear to be a speculation on your part.>>>guanophore
Let me address your whole post.

Some questions first.

Purpose for Christ’s coming? Mankind’s salvation?
Ref: Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

To annul the agreement with death and hell?
Ref: Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

The “overflowing scourge” passed through and Jesus was trodden down by it.
Ref: Mat 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

How was that to be accomplished? And who was involved?

Were the High priests and Judas not following the Mosaic law?
Ref: Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
Mar 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

**And where they not forgiven for following the mosaic law concerning blasphemy? **

A clear picture is painted and seen when the whole mission of Christ is understood in light of: 1st creation
  1. Creation of Adam
  2. Fall + gaining of knowledge
  3. The Judgment
  4. Death.
You can see the same picture the day Jesus died on the cross.2nd creation:
  1. Jesus is introduced as the Messiah
  2. Jesus is burdened with the sins of the world and arrested
  3. Jesus is judged
  4. Jesus is put to death.
All the events leading to the crucifixion is the culmination of both the first and second creations.

Keep that in mind when you are studying your bible and you will begin to see the same pictures.
 
Sounds like Gnosticism to me. Have you been reading from the heretical gospel of Thomas lately or something? Perhaps you should read the Scriptures more often and also do so within the context of the Tradition with which they were handed down. The early Church fathers understandings on Scripture will help a lot too. Here’s what Jesus said about Judas:
Matt. 26:24, Mark 14:21, Luke 22:22: “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed. It were better for him, if that man had not been born.”
Three gospels report this woe on Judas. Jesus also proscribed many woes to the Pharisees as well and called them hypocrites and said they have SATAN as their father not God! (But then again, you think Jesus and satan are the same probably don’t you?)
Jesus perfectly carried out the Father’s will and said that he and his Father are one. So if Jesus, the Son, was of the same mind as the Father, then how could he be condemning Judas and the Pharisees yet at the same time they be doing his will? Do you not see the contradiction?

Do you believe that Jesus is the true God from true God, eternally begotten and consubstantial (meaning of the same substance or essence) as God the Father?

The views your are promoting reek of heresy to me. I’m curious, where did you get these views or did you come up with them yourself?
First, yes I am familiar with Gnostic writings.

Could you for a moment place yourself at the time of Christ when He was still walking the earth, and not know what you now know?

If you can, would that verse (about Judas being born)still mean the same as you see it?
If yes, then you are still on that side of the cross.
Because on this side, Jesus forgives them all.

We have to distinguish between what is said to be before the cross and what is said to be after the cross, because there was a change.

Hence the cross between two administrations, the Fathers, which the high priests were loyal too and the Sons where its believers are loyal to.

Both administrations are the same, but for the sake of mankind, they are different.

If it were not so, then a house divided could not stand.

The fathers house are the nation of Israel, the Sons house are all the believers.

Both houses are united into one house.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
So, how could Judas and the high priests accomplish the Fathers will?
By obeying the Mosaic law!

They became blind by it that they could see Jesus only as a blasphemer, and not as God the deliver.
Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

The bible is one big picture of the works of God with many little objects within the picture that go to make up its beauty.

If we focus only on the objects we will miss the whole picture.

Peace>>>AJ
 
You have demonstrated that what you understand to be “purgatory” in this life is actually just purification. The saints were speaking of undergoing purification in this life so that one does not have to suffer in Purgatory in the next. Purification of the soul from sin is a type of purgatory in the sense that both involve suffering and the removal of the temporal punishment due to sin; however, purification from sin is not the theological place that souls go to after death after departing from the body known as Purgatory. I can’t believe we’re still on this point… I thought we settled this one weeks ago.🤷
Purgatory is purgatory…
 
The reality is there is no purgatory. 🙂
you’ll find out when you die…

Protestants spend more time in Purg than Catholics… because they believe things like this… (& therefore don’t expiate their sins while on Earth)…
 
Like Peter Pan, Santa, the Easter Bunny the tooth fairy Purgatory is fantasy.
your’e saying scripture is a fairy tale because Purg is supported there…
1 Cor 3:13, etc…
for one thing, Jesus said it was difficult to get into Heaven (St. Mt 7:13, 21, St. Luke 13:24… etc)… He said that many would try to get in but wouldn’t be “strong enough”…

You’d better hope there is a Purgatory…
 
you’ll find out when you die…

Protestants spend more time in Purg than Catholics… because they believe things like this… (& therefore don’t expiate their sins while on Earth)…
That is if they actually make it to purgatory at all. I’ve found many protestants are guilty of pride concerning matters of religion and for this reason they do not see the truth concerning God. We know that if they are open to God’s grace and overcome the sin of pride enough to the point that they cry out to Him and humbly beg him to lead them to the truth, then they will enter the Catholic Church.

Pope Pius XII, Mortalium Animos
"13. You, Venerable Brethren, understand how much this question is in Our mind, and We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity.
" papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM

Furthermore, due to their ignorance, which is their fault for not investigating sufficiently into matters of faith, many of them do not even make it to purgatory or eventually heaven either because they do not know of the need to seek forgiveness of their sins and make use of of the sacraments readily available to them to do so.

Pope St. Pius X. Acerbo Nimis. 1905: “Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: “We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.” vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_15041905_acerbo-nimis_en.html

We, as Catholics, know from Scripture, Tradition, and the infallible Magisterium that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. The only way a protestant could be saved is if he is invincibly ignorant that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, and even then, he must have supernatural faith, perfect charity, and not be guilty of mortal sin, which apart from the abundance of grace we receive in the sacraments can never be presumed. Because of God’s mercy, these conditions, which seem nearly impossible to us, could occur with frequency, but due to God’s justice, we cannot presume upon his mercy. God cannot allow sin into heaven and mortal sin so dramatically severs us from him that we become children of the devil and enemies of God. The Father sent his Son so that we can gain eternal life. We are his friends if we do what he commands us, and he tells us that if we love him, we will keep his commandments.

There is a hell, and there is a Devil. If you don’t believe the Devil exists, be sure that he believes in you and knows you more than you think. He is the roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and wishes to take all souls to hell with him. God permits evil for the greater good: the purification and love of the saints.
 
Like Peter Pan, Santa, the Easter Bunny the tooth fairy Purgatory is fantasy.
So Purgatory is as real as Santa? That’s true, 'cause Santa is a real person. His real name was St. Nicolas, he lived in Myra, Turkey and was bishop there during the Arian controversy.

So if you say it’s as real as Santa you’re saying it’s real. 🙂
 
That is if they actually make it to purgatory at all. I’ve found many protestants are guilty of pride concerning matters of religion and for this reason they do not see the truth concerning God.
True, but not all Catholics go to Heaven either-- some are not even practicing the Faith.
 
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