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una_fides
Guest
I definitely agree. To whom much is given much will be required. I truly believe the words of Christ when he said that narrow is the way that leads to life and there will be few who find it.
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jmcrae
Guest
BZZZT!! Sorry, this is incorrect. Please try again!The reality is there is no purgatory.
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
BZZZT!! Sorry, this is incorrect. Please try again!
Yes to be absent from the body and present with the Lord!
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Matariel
Guest
Yep, whether it’s in Purgatory or Heaven.
Wow, you’re really starting to go Catholic aren’t you? Or maybe Jewish-- Jews believe in a fiery purgation after death also.
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jmcrae
Guest
Not everyone who is absent from the body, is present with the Lord, even in your belief system. Some people go to Hell, after all, do they not?
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
Excuse you,but what beleif system do I have? And if you know how come I wasn’t told??? inquireing minds want to know.Thank You Nancy:thumbsup:
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guanophore
Guest
This is quite true. Protestants do believe in purgatory, they just don’t call it that. They beleive it happens “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, we shall all be changed”.
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guanophore
Guest
I am not even sure you know what this means…
No. Moses told them to receive the One who would be sent to them from among their own.
Jesus made it clear that they did not follow the Law.
**
No. They did not recognize Him. They condemned Him unjustly. Jesus was NOT a blasphemer.
- Creation of Adam
- Fall + gaining of knowledge
- The Judgment
- Death.
NO! They were forgiven because THEY KNEW NOT WHAT THEY DID! And because doing it was part of His plan.**
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guanophore
Guest
Why doesn’t that surprise me?
This is truly some of the kookiest stuff I have ever read. It is so far out from Apostolic Teaching and the Scripture as to fall within the boundaries of New Age Fiction!
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look3467
Guest
Unless you know what it means you won’t see it as I do.
And did they? Hello?
If Jesus had agreed with them, would He have been offered?
Of course not, they accused Him of blasphemy, not that He was.
God blinded them can’t you see why?
Clue: The Jews were the only ones who knew about God from the rest of the world.
The rest of the world knew within themselves that there was something greater than themselves but knew nothing about it.
This placed the Jews in total advantage or sy in firs place.
Example would be Esau and Jacob, where Esau (Jews) was the first born with inheritance rights and Jacob (Rest of the world) had none.
Well, Jesus a type of Jacob stole the birth right from Esau (Jews) and of both Esau and Jacob made one body, and that one body is the body of believers, the church.
So, by necessity, Jesus had to go contrary to what they believed otherwise, they would have never crucified Jesus and we all would be without salvation.
Please understand, that under the current teachings of the church, or churches, you will not find to see it the way I told you.
All churches are structured to keep people in line by limiting knowledge.
So, to argue consistently from the stand point of a religious organizations point of view can only lead to divisions.
But to see Jesus clear and plainly as the Savior of the world, divisions matter nothing.
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look3467
Guest
Why am I, not surprised that you are not surprised?
Because I understand your position!
Because you are limited in spiritual knowledge and I say that kindly.
Peace>>>AJ
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sambos671
Guest
Is the firery bush that Moses saw fantasy? Or how about the Pillar of Fire that lead the Israelites through the wilderness? How about the firery brand that Abraham saw go between the split animal instituting the covenant? How about the tounges of fire at pentecost are they fantasy? For many Catholics that what purgatory is the fire of Gods presence cleansing us from those things we never let go of so we may go into heaven with out any ties to sin. We are forgiven already but there is an aspect of sanctification which is what purgatory for catholics is. A renewing a sanctifying experience. Did the fire consume the bush? No. And how does a sinner respond to the presence of God? In anguish over their sinful state even the apostles at the Mt. of Transfiguration fell on their faces. This is purgatory for Many Catholics.
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look3467
Guest
To many, that is not the case, for until now of all my years knowing about Catholics, purgatory was a place where sinners were sent after death so that the survivors would pray them out of there into heaven.
Nothing about the current state of struggling as a state of purgatory.
Masses, church services were bought with a price to be done in favor of the supposed imprisoned individual.
One thing you are correct is that the fire of God burns away the chaff, the wood and the stubble of our deeds if they are not made of Gold or Silver.
The prison where all souls prior to Christs coming was called, labeled and or designated as, is hell.
Purpose for it was that mankind had no salvation for the separation. (death of the soul)
Had not Jesus come and paid the price for all of us and ransom us out of that predicament, we’d still be there.
The good news is that there no longer a need for that prison, for Jesus consumed it all up in love.
One can not see or understand this fact until a study into Jesus’ vist into hell that can this view be understood.
Peace>>>AJ
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sambos671
Guest
I can’t respond to what other catholics believe. The thing with sin is that though we’ve been redeemed and forgiven and are put in a right relationship with God there are still consequences of Sin. Just because a fornicator is forgiven doesn’t mean that they won’t have the consequence of broken relationships or a child they need to take care of or the psychological hurt resulting from that decision.
Historically in Greek and Judaic tradition Hell and Sheol means the place of the dead (or valley of the dead). Hell in the modern context wasn’t as developed a consept as it is now. Both the Greek and the Jews looked at hell as the place were everyone went. As scriptures became more revealing about it we understood more. I think purgatory falls into this senario.
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look3467
Guest
sambos671,
I would like to say that you have a better understanding about these things that many on this board.
Your right about still having consequences for our sins though forgiven.
The price of eternal separation (death) has been paid for as part of Gods responsibility.
Now, the price for our own actions, we are responsible for.
Hence, the need for repentance, meaning that are minds must change from the old measure of good works to resting on Jesus’ works.
If we rest in Jesus’ works for righteousness, we cease from ours.
Don’t miss understand the definition of Jesus’ works to our works, for His works were to save the human soul from eternal death, while ours is to save us from needless suffering due to vexation of spirit.
When a soul is depressed, and without hope, than God is being kept from giving that soul victory for either lack of knowledge or willfully wanting not to abide by Gods desires.
The thing that God has done for us was to give us the ability to be like Him without the condemnation of eternal death due to the fact that there can but be only one God in existence.
Therefore, Jesus is that one God in which we all are members of and still retain life everlasting.
Making both Jesus and the Father and His Holy Spirit one, as we are also one with Him.
God has provided it all for us, alls we just need to make the best of it and enjoy the salvation He has granted us.
Peace>>>AJ
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Thorwald
Guest
Protestantism is the beginning of the grafting back in of the Israelites. The scripture tells us, “All Israel shall be saved.” It is also written, that there are those that say they are jews, and are not.The Vikings and Germanic tribes, are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel. The British throne, is actually an Israelite throne. It is from this throne, that Protestantism spread throughout the world. It is also from this throne, that the negroid slave trade began (descendants of Canaan). Protestantism eliminated all additions to the Word of God, that had taken place since the death of Christ. All pagan beliefs and rituals were deleted. Unfortunately, the Word seems to have been defiled by various ‘cults’ since the inception of the KJV Bible (which on its own, also contains errors).
It may very well be, that the holocaust was a case of the real Israelites eliminating non-jews (non-Israelites). Only God knows the truth. I have corresponded with some jewish rabbis, and they say that most jews have lost their status of being ‘the chosen people of God’ through improper marriages.
We tend to get bogged down to a point that we cannot see the trees for the forest. We develop ‘tunnel vision’, and refuse to analyze the whole picture. The events occurring in this world, are all pressing forward towards fulfilling biblical prophesy, but more times than not, it seems to be ignored by us, or is ‘above our heads’. This is God’s kingdom. He is in control, and He is not simply ‘sitting by the sidelines’.
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sambos671
Guest
Thank you. I’m sure I don’t deserve the complement. I would also say that the Catholic consept of purgatory helps us achieve that goal of becoming more christ like.
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sambos671
Guest
This post is just scary. :bigyikes:
The Vikings and Germanic tribes, are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel. The British throne, is actually an Israelite throne. It is from this throne, that Protestantism spread throughout the world. It is also from this throne, that the negroid slave trade began (descendants of Canaan). Protestantism eliminated all additions to the Word of God, that had taken place since the death of Christ. All pagan beliefs and rituals were deleted. Unfortunately, the Word seems to have been defiled by various ‘cults’ since the inception of the KJV Bible (which on its own, also contains errors).
It may very well be, that the holocaust was a case of the real Israelites eliminating non-jews (non-Israelites). Only God knows the truth. I have corresponded with some jewish rabbis, and they say that most jews have lost their status of being ‘the chosen people of God’ through improper marriages.
We tend to get bogged down to a point that we cannot see the trees for the forest. We develop ‘tunnel vision’, and refuse to analyze the whole picture. The events occurring in this world, are all pressing forward towards fulfilling biblical prophesy, but more times than not, it seems to be ignored by us, or is ‘above our heads’. This is God’s kingdom. He is in control, and He is not simply ‘sitting by the sidelines’.
Just out of curiosity you don’t hang out with Richard Wagner do you?
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look3467
Guest
Good understanding and one which is in line with my views.
The Vikings and Germanic tribes, are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel. The British throne, is actually an Israelite throne. It is from this throne, that Protestantism spread throughout the world. It is also from this throne, that the negroid slave trade began (descendants of Canaan). Protestantism eliminated all additions to the Word of God, that had taken place since the death of Christ. All pagan beliefs and rituals were deleted. Unfortunately, the Word seems to have been defiled by various ‘cults’ since the inception of the KJV Bible (which on its own, also contains errors).
It may very well be, that the holocaust was a case of the real Israelites eliminating non-Jews (non-Israelites). Only God knows the truth. I have corresponded with some Jewish rabbis, and they say that most Jews have lost their status of being ‘the chosen people of God’ through improper marriages.
We tend to get bogged down to a point that we cannot see the trees for the forest. We develop ‘tunnel vision’, and refuse to analyze the whole picture. The events occurring in this world, are all pressing forward to wards fulfilling biblical prophesy, but more times than not, it seems to be ignored by us, or is ‘above our heads’. This is God’s kingdom. He is in control, and He is not simply ‘sitting by the sidelines’.
At a given point, all Jews will become Christians, for they will see who Christ really was and is.
Peace>>>AJ
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look3467
Guest
What that really does, is give the weaker in faith and knowledge
and incentive to strive to do good in fear.
When in reality, the motive should rather be, out of the will to want to do good, out of love rather than fear.
Assurance of ones salvation will free us up to engage in the fight to become victorious over the elements of this world.
Peace>>>AJ
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