Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

[distracted]

**The Fathers at Trent admitted it - why can’t Catholics today ? Why be so defensive ? **​

**** i wasn’t being defensive… i just get tired of all the worn-out criticisms and exaggerations about the Church… why don’t Protestants look into their own backyards???​

More child molestation happens in Protestant “churches” than in the Catholic… (twice as much)… That is a statistic i have heard not from just one reliable source but TWO… or more…

the reason no one focuses on that fact is because Protestantism is the accepted religion of the media (since with Protestantism, you can virtually believe whatever you want…)… The media despises the RCC because it is unyielding in its defense of the sanctity & inviolability of human life, the sinfulness of homosexuality, etc… the RCC is always attacked & the Protestant churches aren’t…

of course, that’s been happening since Day One of Christianity… The devil hates the Catholic Church and attacks catholics more than anyone… (devout ones, that is)

 

[distracted]

##** “Myth 7” is no reply. It is a fact, & not a myth, that indulgences were sold. It is no good to dodge the problem by describing what in principle the practice should be, & the doctrine underlying it,** as though these were the problem. They were not. The abuse lay, **not **there, but in how the doctrine all too often found expression in practice.

To describe what the practice ought to be, & in a healthier Church would be, as though this were a sufficient reply, is a useless way of dealing with the actual facts of the indulgence traffic. Worse still, it is either confused, or ignorant, or deceitful.

frankly, i don’t care…

I love the Roman Catholic Church… imperfect humans and all…

 

[distracted]

Hi, you brought up alot of good reasoning, but God gave us free will, and people get killed,raped,robbed,die of dreaded diseases,every day.God dosn’t stop that nor will he until he returns.He allows all of us to pick and choose,like we can pick him or the devil. If there wasn’t a choice we would not have needed Christ,think about it love of Christ Nancy.Adam and Eve had a choice.

i guess i should have mentioned in OP that i know this…

i think God allowed Protestantism and may evne have wanted it… I suppose no one will know till one is Up There… but i think that a lot of good has come from Protestantism… for one thing, it is so illogical (osas, etc) that it leads the true seeker of Christ (truth) to the Catholic faith… if one chooses to be so led and is willing to sacrifice… (the world particularly hates us Catholics )

i kinda think God wanted something to compare His true Church to… (?)

 

[sambos671]

you seem to want to continue to refute the validity of Catholicism… regardless of anything that is said…

You are very very very wrong. I believe Catholicism is valid. Doesn’t mean I agree with decisions of clergy members who did not act in accordance with their faith. I’m not going to say "oh the priest are very nice and misunderstood when they particpated in executions. There are very good priest who did not. But I guess I want people just to be honest about errors of some of the church leadership to include Popes that may never have taught against the morals of the church but sure lived against the morals of the Church. To say these things never occured is irresponsible and disingenuous. I’m saying they are just as culpable as those who left the church. I’m not saying those leaving the church don’t have their culpability but they are not alone in the blame. You seem to want to think everything was rosey and peachy. I assure you it was not.

 

[distracted]

You are very very very wrong. I believe Catholicism is valid. Doesn’t mean I agree with decisions of clergy members who did not act in accordance with their faith. I’m not going to say "oh the priest are very nice and misunderstood when they particpated in executions. There are very good priest who did not. But I guess I want people just to be honest about errors of some of the church leadership to include Popes that may never have taught against the morals of the church but sure lived against the morals of the Church. To say these things never occured is irresponsible and disingenuous. I’m saying they are just as culpable as those who left the church. I’m not saying those leaving the church don’t have their culpability but they are not alone in the blame. You seem to want to think everything was rosey and peachy. t.

and now it is my turn to say that you are “very very very wrong” …
I know there was wrongdoing in the Church… and i don’t excuse sin… i just dont’ see the point in hashing/ re-hashing what happened in the past. It is not good to live in the past… very unproductive… I don’t see why you focus on the wrong behavior of people… anyone, much less those who lived long ago & have since gone to their 'reward"…

I think that is one thing very wrong with the way some Christians apply (neglect to apply) their faith to their lives… We cannot clean up anyone’s “back yard” but our own… for one thing, we don’t know what our neighbor’s bakc yard looks like… Only God can see over that high fence…

 

[sambos671]

and now it is my turn to say that you are “very very very wrong” …
I know there was wrongdoing in the Church… and i don’t excuse sin… i just dont’ see the point in hashing/ re-hashing what happened in the past. It is not good to live in the past… very unproductive… I don’t see why you focus on the wrong behavior of people… anyone, much less those who lived long ago & have since gone to their 'reward"…

I think that is one thing very wrong with the way some Christians apply (neglect to apply) their faith to their lives… We cannot clean up anyone’s “back yard” but our own… for one thing, we don’t know what our neighbor’s bakc yard looks like… Only God can see over that high fence…

I am talking about our own backyards. I left the Catholic church because of my own family and parishoners I knew. I didn’t know enough about the faith to know any better and I was too young to be complicated enough to find out. Many Catholics leave for similar reasons. All I’m talking about is accountability. It was laking for me and others. As it was lacking for people at the time of the reformation.

 

[distracted]

I am talking about our own backyards. I left the Catholic church because of my own family and parishoners I knew. I didn’t know enough about the faith to know any better and I was too young to be complicated enough to find out. Many Catholics leave for similar reasons. All I’m talking about is accountability. It was laking for me and others. As it was lacking for people at the time of the reformation.

well, i am wondering if it was “lacking” for reasons other than the misbehavior of others. We are ALL sinners. What are your sins??? I mean, aren’t those the only ones you can do anything about??

I felt like leaving the Church myself over the mis-deeds of others… I understand… to a point… but i am not going to give up the good the Chruch has over THAT or anything else… roses have thorns… cherries have pits… That’s life…

So… are you still outside the Church completely or what??

If i don’t like a particular Catholic Church i just go to a different one… they are all different…

 

[sambos671]

well, i am wondering if it was “lacking” for reasons other than the misbehavior of others. We are ALL sinners. What are your sins??? I mean, aren’t those the only ones you can do anything about??

I felt like leaving the Church myself over the mis-deeds of others… I understand… to a point… but i am not going to give up the good the Chruch has over THAT or anything else… roses have thorns… cherries have pits… That’s life…

So… are you still outside the Church completely or what??

If i don’t like a particular Catholic Church i just go to a different one… they are all different…

The difference is that you are an adult who had the ability and possibly the guidance to learn about things better. I was not as are others. But there is a difference from sinning with things like the occasional lie, difficulty with lustful thoughts, occasionally using swear words and adultery, murder, embezzeling, etc… If all you know is the later from practitioners you tend to say what’s true about it? Especially if your family or parish never taught the bible and gave only cursory lip service to the faith. Especially with a church that is reliant on Oral Tradition then for unknowng persons (especially the youth) all they rely on is what they are told. And usually its by people who don’t know and don’t really practice their catholic faith. So, many Catholics don’t feel the need to search things out in scriptures because they are told such and such by the priest or some person they find authoritative. How many Catholics that are marginal that you know pick up a bible and study it or a Catachism? I would submit few. Your experiences aren’t mine so what people teach each other by life styles and words are important which is why the Book of James is in the Bible. You seem to think no catholic is culpable for anything.

 

[sambos671]

I’ve just recently returned to the faith after many years of study.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve just recently returned to the faith after many years of study.

Welcome back!!

 

[distracted]

. So, many Catholics don’t feel the need to search things out in scriptures because they are told such and such by the priest or some person they find authoritative.

I know the scriptures better tahn most Protestant OR catholics I know… and that is NOT bragging, it just happens to be a fact. True, i don’t know all that many people… but whatever…

One reason Catholics don’t tend to “search out” things in script is because they have an infallible Church to rely on. Protestants don’t… so they search and search and study and study ad nauseum… I guess that sounds judgmental and/or impatient and it is … I know that if i didn’t know what i know i would probably be doing the same thing… so scratch that…

Anyway… where was i??

How many Catholics that are marginal that you know pick up a bible and study it or a Catachism? I would submit few.

again, they have a Church they can trust. If you study history and theology and all that… you begin to see that the RCC was the 1st Church… and if it is the church Christ established on Earth, we can trust it about everything… (everything it officially teaches…) and also, what God wants more than studying the Word is living it… which i frankly think most catholics do better than most Protestants (that i know of)…

I’m not saying Catholics are always so great… because i have been victimized by a few Catholics (so called) in my life & they can be worse than any non-Catholic… (long story… storIES)…

Anyway…

. You seem to think no catholic is culpable for anything.

That’s a joke… this shows how little you know me…

i have no patience with evil whether it comes from Catholics or elsewhere… In fact, i probably need to develop some semblance of patience in that area… After all, we are ALL sinners… even when we try so hard not to be… (maybe ESPECIALLY when we are trying… ) I mostly don’t have patience with people who don’t even TRY to do right… and there are more and more of those in the world every day… As the Word says “in the last days, because of iniquity, the love of many will grow cold.”

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

QUOTE=distracted;4632870]I know the scriptures better tahn most Protestant OR catholics I know… and that is NOT bragging, it just happens to be a fact. True, i don’t know all that many people… but whatever…

One reason Catholics don’t tend to “search out” things in script is because they have an infallible Church to rely on. Protestants don’t… so they search and search and study and study ad nauseum… I guess that sounds judgmental and/or impatient and it is … I know that if i didn’t know what i know i would probably be doing the same thing… so scratch that…

Anyway… where was i??

again, they have a Church they can trust. If you study history and theology and all that… you begin to see that the RCC was the 1st Church… and if it is the church Christ established on Earth, we can trust it about everything… (everything it officially teaches…) and also, what God wants more than studying the Word is living it… which i frankly think most catholics do better than most Protestants (that i know of)…

I’m not saying Catholics are always so great… because i have been victimized by a few Catholics (so called) in my life & they can be worse than any non-Catholic… (long story… storIES)…

Anyway…

That’s a joke… this shows how little you know me…

i have no patience with evil whether it comes from Catholics or elsewhere… In fact, i probably need to develop some semblance of patience in that area… After all, we are ALL sinners… even when we try so hard not to be… (maybe ESPECIALLY when we are trying… ) I mostly don’t have patience with people who don’t even TRY to do right… and there are more and more of those in the world every day… As the Word says “in the last days, because of iniquity, the love of many will grow cold.” Your right,but dont give up things will get worst Just kidding,sit back listen to some Christain music:harp:and pray for all who wont listen,God knows their hearts and in due season if you faint not you will reap your reward. Love of Christ Nancy

 

[sambos671]

Ah, you’re probably right. I will teach my kids right and hopefully my wife will join me. Your are right about history showing the Catholic Faith to be true. Even though I returned due to my studies and guidance by the Holy Spirit I still believe there is a reason why people leave and its up to Catholics to do the best they can. I for one will. Even now when I go my wifes church and questions of Catholicism comes up I can give them good answers that make them say oh its not what I thought. Also I can fight the accusations like “my uncle studied for a few years to be a priest but said that they didn’t really study scriptures because they had to accept all the papal bulls as equal as scriptures.” I then had the opportunity to explain Excahedra and the difference between that and papal bulls. I even got to explain the catholic view of purgatory. Its interesting seeing people look at the faith in a new light. And they listen because they trust my knowledge of scripture. I don’t claim to have all the answers either and so I still work on studing the faith.

 

[distracted]

I then had the opportunity to explain Excahedra and the difference between that and papal bulls. I even got to explain the catholic view of purgatory. Its interesting seeing people look at the faith in a new light. And they listen because they trust my knowledge of scripture. I don’t claim to have all the answers either and so I still work on studing the faith.

so let me get this straight - you aren’t Catholic, don’t go to a Catholic church but you are studying Catholicism? Just trying to understand…

(If it makes you feel any better, i sometimes still feel like … distancing myself from… not from the Church but the people in it… Again, its kinda one of those long stories… but you know the story anyway… People sinning right and left… doesn’t do much for your faith…)

Do you spend much time at the Blessed Sacrament? Usually the 1st hour doesn’t do much for me… but after that… it gets very interesting… I think it takes Jesus an hour to get all the cobwebs out of my head…

 

[sambos671]

so let me get this straight - you aren’t Catholic, don’t go to a Catholic church but you are studying Catholicism? Just trying to understand…

(If it makes you feel any better, i sometimes still feel like … distancing myself from… not from the Church but the people in it… Again, its kinda one of those long stories… but you know the story anyway… People sinning right and left… doesn’t do much for your faith…)

Do you spend much time at the Blessed Sacrament? Usually the 1st hour doesn’t do much for me… but after that… it gets very interesting… I think it takes Jesus an hour to get all the cobwebs out of my head…

I was born Catholic. Raised as a Catholic until I was 15 when I left the Church. I traveled the world studied abroad. Came back to the US studied at protestant universities here. Got Married as a protestant. Spent time studying Bible and history got smacked in the face with the Eucharist (figurative here) then looked seriously at Catholicism. Had discussions with a Canon Priest at the Diocese in my home town for 6 months and last month went to confession proclaimed the Catholic Faith and became a member of a Parish that I participate in. My wife is still baptist and our kids are still involved in AWANA and other activities of my old Church. But all the Church members know me because I’ve been a member for some years. And they have questions. I even spoke with the pastor who is understanding but doesn’t hold the same views I have. Is that clear? Oh and I particpate in the liturgy of the Hours.

 

[distracted]

I was born Catholic. Raised as a Catholic until I was 15 when I left the Church. I traveled the world studied abroad. Came back to the US studied at protestant universities here. Got Married as a protestant. Spent time studying Bible and history got smacked in the face with the Eucharist (figurative here) then looked seriously at Catholicism. Had discussions with a Canon Priest at the Diocese in my home town for 6 months and last month went to confession proclaimed the Catholic Faith and became a member of a Parish that I participate in. My wife is still baptist and our kids are still involved in AWANA and other activities of my old Church. But all the Church members know me because I’ve been a member for some years. And they have questions. I even spoke with the pastor who is understanding but doesn’t hold the same views I have. Is that clear? Oh and I particpate in the liturgy of the Hours.

it’s all clear except that part about having differences with the pastor…

You didn’t think I’d let you get away with leaving that out, did you???

 

[sambos671]

it’s all clear except that part about having differences with the pastor…

You didn’t think I’d let you get away with leaving that out, did you???

The baptist pastor not he Parish Priest. When thinking about returning to the Catholic church I spoke with the Pastor about reasons why but primarily about the Eucharist. He and I disagree but he seems to be ok with my views about the Eucharist though the whole Transubstantiation thing is really problematic for him.

 

[distracted]

When thinking about returning to the Catholic church I spoke with the Pastor about reasons why but primarily about the Eucharist. He and I disagree but he seems to be ok with my views about the Eucharist though the whole Transubstantiation thing is really problematic for him.

so what do you disagree on? I mean, if he is OK with your views on the Eucharist, why is Transubstantiation a problem???

 

[sambos671]

so what do you disagree on? I mean, if he is OK with your views on the Eucharist, why is Transubstantiation a problem???

He’s ok with me having those views. He doesn’t hold to them. His explenation is well God is present everywhere so during communion service we acknowledge his presence. And I told him thats not what the Church Fathers meant nor Jesus as indicated in scripture but that the Eucharist itself is this same Jesus his flesh, his blood. However, it means I can still participate in small groups and discuss scripture. Which I do.

 

[distracted]

He’s ok with me having those views. He doesn’t hold to them. His explenation is well God is present everywhere so during communion service we acknowledge his presence. And I told him thats not what the Church Fathers meant nor Jesus as indicated in scripture but that the Eucharist itself is this same Jesus his flesh, his blood. However, it means I can still participate in small groups and discuss scripture. Which I do.

gee, that’s big of him…

I’m glad you are sticking it out… I would be uncomfortable in a mostly Protestant group… but since when did Jesus tell us to be comfortable???

anyway… this whole “God is everywhere” nonsense is… well, never mind… i was about to lapse into judgmentalism because i get impatient with Protestants ideas but i know t hey can’t help it … weren’t raised 'right"

anywya, God IS everywhere, but Jesus Christ is NOT… He is in His Church… (Yes, i know that Jesus is God…).

The Ark ofthe Covenant had a “house” . True, God told David He didn’t need to have a house built for Him (being He is God and all… ) but He had him build one anywya… Did God change in His desire that we should have all of HIm??? No… so God established the Catholic Church and that is where He abides NOW… where His Son is (“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Mt 28:20)… Everyone “has God”, not everyone has Jesus… but we must go through Him to get to t he Father… Isaiah says the will of God will be accomplished through HIM.
If it weren’t for the Real Presence, i may not be Christian at all right now… God knows…