Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

[sambos671]

gee, that’s big of him…

I’m glad you are sticking it out… I would be uncomfortable in a mostly Protestant group… but since when did Jesus tell us to be comfortable???

anyway… this whole “God is everywhere” nonsense is… well, never mind… i was about to lapse into judgmentalism because i get impatient with Protestants ideas but i know t hey can’t help it … weren’t raised 'right"

anywya, God IS everywhere, but Jesus Christ is NOT… He is in His Church… (Yes, i know that Jesus is God…).

The Ark ofthe Covenant had a “house” . True, God told David He didn’t need to have a house built for Him (being He is God and all… ) but He had him build one anywya… Did God change in His desire that we should have all of HIm??? No… so God established the Catholic Church and that is where He abides NOW… where His Son is (“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Mt 28:20)… Everyone “has God”, not everyone has Jesus… but we must go through Him to get to t he Father… Isaiah says the will of God will be accomplished through HIM.
If it weren’t for the Real Presence, i may not be Christian at all right now… God knows…

I would have to say most likely thats true. Fortunately God is more patient with us than we are with each other.

 

[jmcrae]

He’s ok with me having those views. He doesn’t hold to them. His explenation is well God is present everywhere so during communion service we acknowledge his presence. And I told him thats not what the Church Fathers meant nor Jesus as indicated in scripture but that the Eucharist itself is this same Jesus his flesh, his blood. However, it means I can still participate in small groups and discuss scripture. Which I do.

If you have returned to the practice of the Catholic faith, it seems odd to keep hanging around the Baptist church. What is your motive, for this? Are you trying to keep one foot in each camp, in case you change your mind?

 

[Phillipos]

Why did God allow Adam and Eve to eat the fruit?

Why did God allow Israel to follow after foreign Gods?

God has given us all the wonderful gift of free-will. God gave the reformers the gift of free will to choose as they would, and they chose to break away from the church.

Also…

Back in History of Christianity I think I remember my professor talking about St. Augustine saying that he was a neoplatonist before he was a Christian. Augustine said himself that his neoplatonism acted like a stepping stone into Christianity (Funny enough he also said that if he was a Christian first he probably would have ended up as a neoplatonist).

Perhaps God allows protestanism to act as a stepping stone to help people come into the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I know my 7 years as a protestant helped to prepare my heart and mind for my journey home.

thebereanlife.com

 

[look3467]

Good conversation!

All I would like to add is that God is the same to a Catholic, a Baptist or to any other religious individual.

What is at the heart of the matter, is he spirit.

If the Spirit of God tugs at the strings of your heart and you respond by whatever way you know to do, God is in it, for He is calling you.

God touches us by His spirit and there are no walls to contain it.

If you found that the Catholic church brings you to a closer relationship (walk) with God, then that is where you belong.

An unequally yoked marriage can survive if one or both have understandings about God’s love.

I know what Baptists believe as well as Catholics, for I were one before, and now I am just a believe.

I can speak to and with any religious belief with the greatest of understanding simply because I have been given to understand the concept of free will.

I wouldn’t let the differences in religious beliefs destroy my marriage, but rather let the love of God prevail in the Marianne.

The one with the greatest understanding in a mixed marriage is, the… pillar of strenght.

Allow the spirit of God to inhabit the praises of mankind for whatever they be and may we jion on with another in worship ping Him in spirit.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[sambos671]

If you have returned to the practice of the Catholic faith, it seems odd to keep hanging around the Baptist church. What is your motive, for this? Are you trying to keep one foot in each camp, in case you change your mind?

Dude, I don’t know where you missed it but I’m married and my wife hasn’t become Catholic my children are involved with my old churches ministries and they are not Catholic as yet. I have to tred carefully with my family. You suggest that I should blow them off? Say hey you guys go there I go over there? Its a case of baby steps and patience with my family.

 

[jmcrae]

Dude, I don’t know where you missed it but I’m married and my wife hasn’t become Catholic my children are involved with my old churches ministries and they are not Catholic as yet. I have to tred carefully with my family. You suggest that I should blow them off? Say hey you guys go there I go over there? Its a case of baby steps and patience with my family.

AH - makes sense, now.

 

[una_fides]

Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.

Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…

God permits the lies and divisions in protestantism just as he permits false religions to spread their lies and deceits and just as he permits people to sin. Just because something is permitted by God does not mean that it’s approved or pleasing to him. Look at all the evil in the world that God permits. He certainly would not approve of such actions. In the same way, God permits people to leave the one true Church, which he founded with the shedding of his own blood and in which he is perpetually offered in sacrifice and which contains the fullness of the truth. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation, and only those who are invincibly ignorant of the true Church and who live lives of grace can be incorporated into the Church through their implicit desire for baptism, meaning that if the true faith were presented to he or she then that person would be open to God’s grace and would accept it rather than pridefully assume that what he or she already thought was correct. God’s grace leads all souls to the fullness of the truth, and thus, leads all souls to the holy Catholic Church. No protestant was ever lead by God to continue in their errors or to break away from the one true faith. Let us continue to pray for the conversion of protestants to the fullness of the truth.

I will leave you with a quote from Pope Pius XI from his encyclical Mortalium Animos:

“We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity.”

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

God permits the lies and divisions in protestantism just as he permits false religions to spread their lies and deceits and just as he permits people to sin. Just because something is permitted by God does not mean that it’s approved or pleasing to him. Look at all the evil in the world that God permits. He certainly would not approve of such actions. In the same way, God permits people to leave the one true Church, which he founded with the shedding of his own blood and in which he is perpetually offered in sacrifice and which contains the fullness of the truth. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation, and only those who are invincibly ignorant of the true Church and who live lives of grace can be incorporated into the Church through their implicit desire for baptism, meaning that if the true faith were presented to he or she then that person would be open to God’s grace and would accept it rather than pridefully assume that what he or she already thought was correct. God’s grace leads all souls to the fullness of the truth, and thus, leads all souls to the holy Catholic Church. No protestant was ever lead by God to continue in their errors or to break away from the one true faith. Let us continue to pray for the conversion of protestants to the fullness of the truth.

I will leave you with a quote from Pope Pius XI from his encyclical Mortalium Animos:

Mathew:18:1-4 Mathew 23-1-12. 1stJohn:4:4:thumbsup:

 

[distracted]

God permits the lies and divisions in protestantism just as he permits false religions to spread their lies and deceits and just as he permits people to sin. Just because something is permitted by God does not mean that it’s approved or pleasing to him. Look at all the evil in the world that God permits. He certainly would not approve of such actions. In the same way, God permits people to leave the one true Church, which he founded with the shedding of his own blood and in which he is perpetually offered in sacrifice and which contains the fullness of the truth. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation, and only those who are invincibly ignorant of the true Church and who live lives of grace can be incorporated into the Church through their implicit desire for baptism, meaning that if the true faith were presented to he or she then that person would be open to God’s grace and would accept it rather than pridefully assume that what he or she already thought was correct. God’s grace leads all souls to the fullness of the truth, and thus, leads all souls to the holy Catholic Church. No protestant was ever lead by God to continue in their errors or to break away from the one true faith. Let us continue to pray for the conversion of protestants to the fullness of the truth.

:

many posters here have brought up that thing about free will… and that God allows us to do evil if we choose… I’m wondering why that poiint is being driven into the ground??? as if an old Christian like me wouldn’t know that… or even a not so old a one…

anyway… When Mary appeared in of the most recent (approved) apparitions (can’t recall which one…) she said that “these days more people go to Purgatory [than Helll]”… (very few go directly to Heaven) so i am wondering… What happened in the last couple hundred yrs that changed that… Well… unless she meant to say that most people used to go to Heaven (when there was just one Church??) but I am confused about all this because some saint said he had a vision in which nearly evreyone went to Hell… that was back in the 1100s…

Why do i mention this? Because i am wondering if Protestantism, false as a lot of its various tenets are, had some good impact on the spiritual lives of Earth’s inhabitants… and i have also made the point that maybe one of those good things was that it gave people a “church” (churches) to compare the One True Church with… When you get tired of the false, you begin to look for the true…

I don’t know… I am just trying to figure things out (as usual)…

 

[jmcrae]

many posters here have brought up that thing about free will… and that God allows us to do evil if we choose… I’m wondering why that poiint is being driven into the ground??? as if an old Christian like me wouldn’t know that… or even a not so old a one.

In order to show that God has no mysterious “reason” for letting Protestantism exist. He allows it to exist for the same reason He allows diseases, accidents, and every kind of stupidity - to purify the just, and to destroy the unjust.

anyway… When Mary appeared in of the most recent (approved) apparitions (can’t recall which one…) she said that “these days more people go to Purgatory [than Helll]”… (very few go directly to Heaven)

Which Apparition would that be? (At Fatima, she said that souls are falling into Hell like snowflakes in a November blizzard. Fatima was from May 13 to October 13 of 1917, which is less than 100 years ago.)

 

[distracted]

In order to show that God has no mysterious “reason” for letting Protestantism exist. He allows it to exist for the same reason He allows diseases, accidents, and every kind of stupidity - to purify the just, and to destroy the unjust.

Which Apparition would that be? (At Fatima, she said that souls are falling into Hell like snowflakes in a November blizzard. Fatima was from May 13 to October 13 of 1917, which is less than 100 years ago.)

Like i said, i am not sure which one it was. There have been many apparitions since Fatima…

it was one that took place in the last 50 yrs… that’s all i recall…

 

[una_fides]

Like i said, i am not sure which one it was. There have been many apparitions since Fatima…

it was one that took place in the last 50 yrs… that’s all i recall…

I believe it’s from an unapproved apparition perhaps medugorje and I also recall that it was worded differently in the actual text. I recommend doing more research and knowing the exact quote from the exact apparition first before considering it as a possibly valid line of argumentation.

 

[jmcrae]

Like i said, i am not sure which one it was. There have been many apparitions since Fatima.

I am not an expert, by far, but I am under the impression that the last approved Apparition was the one at Fatima in 1917. I don’t know of any that are more recent than that. For Catechism, we teach about three of them: Guadalupe, Lourdes, and Fatima.

 

[distracted]

I am not an expert, by far, but I am under the impression that the last approved Apparition was the one at Fatima in 1917. I don’t know of any that are more recent than that. For Catechism, we teach about three of them: Guadalupe, Lourdes, and Fatima.

i was pretty sure it was an approved apparition but i could be wrong…

I can’t, for one thing, see why more people would “now” go to Purgatory rather than Hell when things have never been worse in this sinful world…

Or maybe people get so sick of all the sin, they eventually see the need to turn to God… In a way, maybe a sin-saturated society is the best way to drive people to God… Who knows? Only God Himself… I dont’ hang around serious sinners anymore… (its bad enough I have to live with one )

 

[jmcrae]

i was pretty sure it was an approved apparition but i could be wrong…

I can’t, for one thing, see why more people would “now” go to Purgatory rather than Hell when things have never been worse in this sinful world.

I can’t, either. I am thinking that if souls were falling into Hell like snowflakes in a November blizzard in the relatively innocent days of 1917, then what must it be like, now?

If you find the source of the quotation, please share. I’d be interested in knowing the context. It seems odd that Our Mother would seem to contradict herself like that.

 

[una_fides]

Mathew:18:1-4 Mathew 23-1-12. 1stJohn:4:4

I would extend 1 John 4:4 to verse 6:
“We are of God. He that knows God hears us. He that is not of God hears us not. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”

The “we” in this verse is in reference to the apostles and by extension their successors who have over the past 2000 years continued to spread the truth about God and his Christ.

 

[una_fides]

…
anyway… When Mary appeared in of the most recent (approved) apparitions (can’t recall which one…) she said that “these days more people go to Purgatory [than Helll]”… (very few go directly to Heaven) so i am wondering… What happened in the last couple hundred yrs that changed that… Well… unless she meant to say that most people used to go to Heaven (when there was just one Church??) but I am confused about all this because some saint said he had a vision in which nearly evreyone went to Hell… that was back in the 1100s…

Most people do go to hell. That’s a simple fact taught by Christ himself as he says that “few are chosen.” We could get into a whole discussion on this, and I was recently on a thread where I defended this universally understood teaching of the Church; however, the thread was deleted likely because of some out of control posters or someone going off on a tangent, so if you want the evidence on this, just send me a personal message.
Here are a few verses: Mat 20:16b; 22:11-14; 7:13-27; Luk 13:23-28. Also look at the story of Noah’s ark in which 8 souls were saved by water and the rest destroyed, and the ark as the fathers have universally taught is a figure of the Church, and those outside of which will perish in the flood.

Regarding the wording you attributed to the unknown apparition, “these days more people go to Purgatory” does not automatically imply that it there are more going to purgatory than hell. The context could have been comparing the number of souls that go to Purgatory with those who go directly into heaven. Hence, your alleged quote could have also been worded, “most go to Purgatory [than directly to heaven].”

 

[una_fides]

… i am wondering if Protestantism, false as a lot of its various tenets are, had some good impact on the spiritual lives of Earth’s inhabitants… and i have also made the point that maybe one of those good things was that it gave people a “church” (churches) to compare the One True Church with… When you get tired of the false, you begin to look for the true…

I don’t know… I am just trying to figure things out (as usual)…

I think you are correct that many converts to the Catholic faith from various protestant sects become Catholic after realizing the problems and divisions among those who consider themselves to be “Bible believers.” The fact that there are thousands of various protestant denominations all believing different things based on their individual interpretations of the same Scriptures provides protestants with a problem that their personal belief systems they formulate cannot answer since their chief assumption is that the Holy Spirit guides sincere individuals into the fullness of the truth, which they view as whatever someone believes that agrees with them. This reason was one of the many which drew me to convert to the Catholic faith.

However, I wouldn’t go as far as to say that somehow there are more people necessarily going to heaven as a result of protestantism. In fact, I would argue the opposite. How many more souls would have remained in the Catholic Church and had access to her saving sacraments and the fullness of her teachings had it not been for the many protestants who snatched them out of and drew them away from her? I certainly do see good that comes from protestant teachings as they help prepare the way for the fullness of the gospel of in the Catholic Church; however, protestants also still draw many Catholics away from the Church and thus further and further from being able to attain salvation. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a protestant to be saved, but it would at the very least be much much more difficult and such a person would also have to qualify as being invincibly ignorant that the Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Christ. And one who is prideful in assuming their way to be correct and is not willing to beg God for light from heaven can doubtfully be considered as invincibly ignorant. Possibly ignorant, but not invincibly.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

This is in reference to Una fides,and Distracted, First of all please dont hop all over my english,my grammer stinks but I try.If you had not got into this subject,and I had not found it so interesting,I proberly wouldn’t have gorn to look up some things like The Lady of Fatima said because of the behavior of man just a small part of the human race will be saved. Jacinta of Fatima said almost all men are going to Hell.ECC:1:15,Math:7:13-14 St Louis Marie de Monfort said"There is NO Middle Way" And St Mark:20:16 Many are called but few are chosen. St Teresa of Avila said I had the greatest sorrow for the many souls that condemned themselves to Hell,especially those Lutherans…) I saw souls falling into Hell like snowflakes. http-www.truecatholicfaith.org… Thank You Nancy

 

[Valke2]

Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think that once God resigned Himself to the fact that the Catholics weren’t coming back to Judaism, He figured “what’ s the difference?”