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peary1
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Because that was not His purpose. Besides, if he had a family, they would have murdered them as they did Him.
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peary1
Guest
How many Old Testament prophets were married?
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Cristian_B
Guest
@DEXTRA DOMINI, can be something sinful born from something not sinful?
Jesus had to be like us in every way in order to be our high priest. Nothing clean can come from something unclean. Nothing unclean can come from something clean. Jesus had to be unclean, in order to be like us in every way. Clean comes only from clean and unclean only from unclean. Nothing clean gives birth to something unclean and nothing unclean gives birth to something clean. Jesus had a sinner nature. Temptation comes from our sinner nature, and the Bible says He was tempted. As I stated, nothing unclean comes from something clean… if she was clean, how could Jesus be born if he had to be unclean in order to be like us in every way and be our high priest? If she was without original sin, how could she give birth to someone with original sin? If you read my post, Jesus had to be unclean (like us) in order to be our high priest, and nothing unclean comes from something clean. Therefore, Mary had to be unclean (with a sinner nature) as well.
By the way, Revelation 12:1 speaks of the Church of Christ, His bride not His mother.
Jesus had to be like us in every way in order to be our high priest. Nothing clean can come from something unclean. Nothing unclean can come from something clean. Jesus had to be unclean, in order to be like us in every way. Clean comes only from clean and unclean only from unclean. Nothing clean gives birth to something unclean and nothing unclean gives birth to something clean. Jesus had a sinner nature. Temptation comes from our sinner nature, and the Bible says He was tempted. As I stated, nothing unclean comes from something clean… if she was clean, how could Jesus be born if he had to be unclean in order to be like us in every way and be our high priest? If she was without original sin, how could she give birth to someone with original sin? If you read my post, Jesus had to be unclean (like us) in order to be our high priest, and nothing unclean comes from something clean. Therefore, Mary had to be unclean (with a sinner nature) as well.
By the way, Revelation 12:1 speaks of the Church of Christ, His bride not His mother.
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HeWillProvide
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DEXTRA DOMINI, can be something sinful born from something not sinful?
Jesus had to be like us in every way in order to be our high priest. Nothing clean can come from something unclean. Nothing unclean can come from something clean. Jesus had to be unclean, in order to be like us in every way. Clean comes only from clean and unclean only from unclean. Nothing clean gives birth to something unclean and nothing unclean gives birth to something clean. Jesus had a sinner nature. Temptation comes from our sinner nature, and the Bible says He was tempted. As I stated, nothing unclean comes from something clean… if she was clean, how could Jesus be born if he had to be unclean in order to be like us in every way and be our high priest? If she was without original sin, how could she give birth to someone with original sin? If you read my post, Jesus had to be unclean (like us) in order to be our high priest, and nothing unclean comes from something clean. Therefore, Mary had to be unclean (with a sinner nature) as well.
We sin, and Jesus never did, so, no, Jesus is not like us in every single way.
Jesus had to be like us in every way in order to be our high priest. Nothing clean can come from something unclean. Nothing unclean can come from something clean. Jesus had to be unclean, in order to be like us in every way. Clean comes only from clean and unclean only from unclean. Nothing clean gives birth to something unclean and nothing unclean gives birth to something clean. Jesus had a sinner nature. Temptation comes from our sinner nature, and the Bible says He was tempted. As I stated, nothing unclean comes from something clean… if she was clean, how could Jesus be born if he had to be unclean in order to be like us in every way and be our high priest? If she was without original sin, how could she give birth to someone with original sin? If you read my post, Jesus had to be unclean (like us) in order to be our high priest, and nothing unclean comes from something clean. Therefore, Mary had to be unclean (with a sinner nature) as well.
We sin, and Jesus never did, so, no, Jesus is not like us in every single way.
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HeWillProvide
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Not sure but wasn’t Moses married in the movie Moses?
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StCsDavid
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Now hold on there my friend…I fear you speak in error. Christ was not like us in every way. He was a divine human being. I’ve heard him called the Divine face of man and the human face of God. If he was like us in every way then he could not have been part of a triune God. I also think a little ole heresy called Arianism kind of went down that same path. While Mary was full of grace…Christ was grace and then some. Grace is pretty darned clean stuff. Don’t know where you get your theology of cleanliness. I would be interested in its source.
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archangel04
Guest
Whoa man that is really odd theology you have there. Christ is perfect without sin becuase He is God the Son. Born of the Virgin Mary she is the one who brought us the Lord. Has the one who brings us the Lord she could not have been in state of Sin (only the best for God) so what you say totally contradicts Church teaching and scripture.
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thistle
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What strange cult do you belong to? You certainly can’t be Christian if you think Jesus was unclean.
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DEXTRA_DOMINI
Guest
Cristian B, **Revelation 12:1 **means exactly what I stated, apparently you do not know the scripture. I will be praying for you.
I recommend you continue to read Revelation and you’ll see it even talks of Mary fleeing to Egypt, it also talks about the **falling of Satan **and when he and his angels fell down to earth Revelation 12:9.
We know this already happened so it ties right in to Mary and the birth of Christ.
See **Luke 10:18 **Jesus said, “I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky.”
See Revelation 11:6 this is talking about Moses and Elijah, where Moses turned water into blood and Elijah who closed up the sky for 3 yrs (see Exodus and 1 Kings)
Apparently you have a typical protestant view of the Book of Revelations, I know because I am a former Protestant, well schooled in the scripture, I use 5 different bibles and the **word of God **is what brought me to the Caholic Church.
I recommend you read **Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, and Daniel **then try reading **Revelations again **including Prayer and you will start to better understand the Word. You could also see your local Priest and talk to him about what the scripture says and he can help you find the Truth. You are in my prayers. May God be Merciful with us all at all times, Amen.
I recommend you continue to read Revelation and you’ll see it even talks of Mary fleeing to Egypt, it also talks about the **falling of Satan **and when he and his angels fell down to earth Revelation 12:9.
We know this already happened so it ties right in to Mary and the birth of Christ.
See **Luke 10:18 **Jesus said, “I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky.”
See Revelation 11:6 this is talking about Moses and Elijah, where Moses turned water into blood and Elijah who closed up the sky for 3 yrs (see Exodus and 1 Kings)
Apparently you have a typical protestant view of the Book of Revelations, I know because I am a former Protestant, well schooled in the scripture, I use 5 different bibles and the **word of God **is what brought me to the Caholic Church.
I recommend you read **Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, and Daniel **then try reading **Revelations again **including Prayer and you will start to better understand the Word. You could also see your local Priest and talk to him about what the scripture says and he can help you find the Truth. You are in my prayers. May God be Merciful with us all at all times, Amen.
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Cristian_B
Guest
By “unclean” I mean with a sinner nature. That means that He still had human body, or a sinner/sinning/sinful/etc. nature, like us. If He wouldn’t, He couldn’t be tempted. If He didn’t sin, well…that’s another story. By sinner nature I mean that He had that “law of sin” (which Paul speaks about in Romans) in His human body. We all have two laws: the sinful law, which is a consequence of Adam & Eve’s sin and that law of sin is in our flesh; you cannot be in human flesh and blood and not have this law. And another Law, which is God’s Law, and we have that in our minds and perhaps hearts. You can only disobey one law as you can only follow one law, because these laws hate each other. You cannot follow the nature of you own body and the Holy Spirit. Everything from this world is against the Holy Ghost.
By saying Jesus was without the consequences of original sin (or without original sin, call it as you want) you are saying that He didn’t have that law of sin in His flesh, which means that He wasn’t like us and the consequences of not being like us would be that He couldn’t be our high priest. In the context of my post, “unclean” meant in human flesh and blood, which means that He had that law in His body. Flesh is not clean because it has that sinful law, thus flesh is from this world. “unclean”, in my post, did not mean that He sinned, but that He had a sinful law in His human body. “clean” is the flesh without the consequences of the original sin of Adam & Eve; if He wouldn’t have had the “original sin” He wouldn’t be human, thus He couldn’t be called our brother. He passed throw our experiences, sufferings, temptations, etc. and that is why He is our Brother. So, “unclean” did not mean a sinner, but with a sinner nature.
The truth is that Jesus followed His Father’s Law. He was against the law of His own body, so He wasn’t a sinner. The sinful law which He had inside Him still existed before the resurrection (because at the cross, He killed His sinner nature, or the law of His human body) but He didn’t follow it. He was tempted to follow His own body’s law but His will was stronger and followed God’s Law which is holy, just and perfect. Because His will was greater than the temptation, He enslaved slavery. If our will is not as powerful as the temptation, we sin and become slaves of sin and are forced to follow the sinful law of our body. But thanks to Jesus Christ, now that He went trough the same temptations as ours, and didn’t sin, He can help us overcome them and, following His example, to enslave slavery.
So by “unclean” I did not mean that Jesus was a sinner, but that He had the law of sin in His body. “clean” would be without that law. But in order to be like us, He had to share all our happiness, temptations, joy, sadness, suffering, pain, anger (rather the need of expressing anger), etc. but now, that He did, He is indeed our Brother. Since He was like us, and since He didn’t sin, He is the prefect high priest. So I did not mean what you thought I meant.
By saying Jesus was without the consequences of original sin (or without original sin, call it as you want) you are saying that He didn’t have that law of sin in His flesh, which means that He wasn’t like us and the consequences of not being like us would be that He couldn’t be our high priest. In the context of my post, “unclean” meant in human flesh and blood, which means that He had that law in His body. Flesh is not clean because it has that sinful law, thus flesh is from this world. “unclean”, in my post, did not mean that He sinned, but that He had a sinful law in His human body. “clean” is the flesh without the consequences of the original sin of Adam & Eve; if He wouldn’t have had the “original sin” He wouldn’t be human, thus He couldn’t be called our brother. He passed throw our experiences, sufferings, temptations, etc. and that is why He is our Brother. So, “unclean” did not mean a sinner, but with a sinner nature.
The truth is that Jesus followed His Father’s Law. He was against the law of His own body, so He wasn’t a sinner. The sinful law which He had inside Him still existed before the resurrection (because at the cross, He killed His sinner nature, or the law of His human body) but He didn’t follow it. He was tempted to follow His own body’s law but His will was stronger and followed God’s Law which is holy, just and perfect. Because His will was greater than the temptation, He enslaved slavery. If our will is not as powerful as the temptation, we sin and become slaves of sin and are forced to follow the sinful law of our body. But thanks to Jesus Christ, now that He went trough the same temptations as ours, and didn’t sin, He can help us overcome them and, following His example, to enslave slavery.
So by “unclean” I did not mean that Jesus was a sinner, but that He had the law of sin in His body. “clean” would be without that law. But in order to be like us, He had to share all our happiness, temptations, joy, sadness, suffering, pain, anger (rather the need of expressing anger), etc. but now, that He did, He is indeed our Brother. Since He was like us, and since He didn’t sin, He is the prefect high priest. So I did not mean what you thought I meant.
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DEXTRA_DOMINI
Guest
We are **born with original sin and through Baptism it is washed away. However because of our human state **we are still drawn to wants of the flesh and **still prone to sin **but with original sin removed from us we are better able to resist.
So Christ and Mary both had no original sin but still had free will to sin if they so chose to. But they did not. Mary did not sin, no scripture shows she did, it shows the opposite showing that she was always obedient and willing to do God’s will.
Christ also was tempted but resisted sin, Christ never sinned but always did the will of the Father because he Chose to.
Being born without original sin doesn’t mean anyone is incapable of sinning, just go back to Genesis and see **Adam and Eve **were made without original sin, yet they still defied the Father by eating the fruit from the forbidden tree.
So Cristian B, I am now curious because of your lack of knowledge of Church teaching and your view of Scripture - what denomination are you?
So Christ and Mary both had no original sin but still had free will to sin if they so chose to. But they did not. Mary did not sin, no scripture shows she did, it shows the opposite showing that she was always obedient and willing to do God’s will.
Christ also was tempted but resisted sin, Christ never sinned but always did the will of the Father because he Chose to.
Being born without original sin doesn’t mean anyone is incapable of sinning, just go back to Genesis and see **Adam and Eve **were made without original sin, yet they still defied the Father by eating the fruit from the forbidden tree.
So Cristian B, I am now curious because of your lack of knowledge of Church teaching and your view of Scripture - what denomination are you?
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Cristian_B
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I was wrong. There is no such thing as an original sin that passes down from father to son and so on. Mary and Joseph had no original sin. Me and you neither. Did you ever read Ezequiel 18:20?
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezequiel 18:20)
The sin (guilt) will not pass from father to son, and neither from son to father. The sin which Adam & Eve did does not pass from my father to me. Instead of all having an original sin, we all have a sinner nature. The sinner nature is the consequence of the original sin. After eating of the forbidden fruit, our nature “changed”… when we had our eyes “opened” we became sinful. It was not according to God’s plan. Anyway, we all have a sinful nature, but there is no such thing as an original sin that my father will pass onto me genetically. Rather he will give me his sinful nature. Even with the spiritual baptism, we do not kill completely our sinful nature, but get the power to overcome it. We will kill our sinful nature completely when we die. When we’ll be reborn we’ll have a different nature.
Mary did, at a certain point in her life, sin. I believe that she will resurrect and have eternal life, but saying that she never sinned is not good. Yes, Scripture tells us in Romans 3:23 that all mankind sinned except Jesus, and that includes Mary. I am going to ask you a question: why, between all men, Jesus had to die? One of the answers is because He was the only completely innocent human (physically; He was God in His character) that ever lived. If He wouldn’t be the only one, don’t you think that it would be better to sacrifice a woman rather than God’s Son? That is why He was the only one that could bear such an important task. He was the only innocent human (God in His character) that ever lived. So, I believe that she tried not to sin, to live a perfect life, but, as Paul says: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) That includes Mary, Joseph, the saints, and the rest of humanity. I’m not saying she was a complete sinner, pagan, practiced idolatry, etc. but that she could never be as innocent and perfect as Jesus Christ. I’m sure they tried, but at a certain point in their lives, they failed (Mary, saints, mankind) except Jesus. Again, thanks to Jesus, we do not have to bear this impossible task because He died for us, so if we fail, we’ll find forgiveness and support in Him.
“but with original sin removed from us we are better able to resist.” This is wrong. When we’re baptized we’re filled with Holy spirit and the holy Ghost gives us power to overcome our sinful law that we have in our bodies. Saying that if you have the original sin (which you don’t have) removed your resistance increases it’s not true. You cannot do anything on your own, and since you do not have an original sin, but a sinful nature, you can overcome it only with the help of God, not on your own. When you’re baptized God comes to live in your heart and He gives you power to overcome that sinful law which is in your body; He gives you power to enslave slavery.
You’re right: Christ, Mary, Joseph, the saints, mankind, etc. do not have an original sin, but they have a sinful law in their bodies which always tempts them to sin: which is disobeying God’s Law which is in their minds an hearts.
You’re right. Adam and Eve didn’t have an original sin, such as you don’t have one and me neither. But they didn’t have a sinful nature as ours. When they ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, there was a dramatic change in their nature and their descendants’ nature. “descendants” include you, me, Mary, the saints, the sinners and even Jesus. He was like us in every way. But if He had a sinful nature like ours, it doesn’t mean He sinned, but it means that He was open to temptations.
My church? I believe it is irrelevant what sect I belong to. I can’t say that I belong only to a church; but, at the moment, I follow Paul’s advice which is to investigate everything (all teachings) and keep what is good. Good is what is according to God’s Word. No, I’m not completely Sola Scriptura. There may be other sources of spiritual help outside the Bible, but the Bible is the only book that I know for sure that it’s His Word. Using the Bible, I decide if the teaching is according to It (the Bible) and if it is useful, important, etc. I pray for wisdom from God so I will judge the teachings that are outside the Bible correctly.
EDIT: In the New Testament, the apostles always speak of a sinner nature, not an original sin.
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DEXTRA_DOMINI
Guest
There you go again picking verses out of context and distorting the truth. Here are some I would kindly ask you to review.
John 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
**2 Thessalonians 2:15 **Therefore, brothers, **stand firm **and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught either by and oral statement or by a letter of ours.
**1 Corinthians 11:2 ** I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.
**1 Timothy 3:15 **But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the **Pillar and Foundation **of Truth. Undeniably great is the myster of devotion.
Titus 3:1 Remind them to be under the **control of magistrates **and authorities, to be obedient, to be open to every good enterprise.
Jesus passed on to the apostles what to do and gave them authority to continue teaching and not only by what was written but what was spoken. Our church knows these things and the authority was passed on through apostolic succession see (Acts), and many of Pauls letters attest to them.
So if Paul calls the Church the Pillar and foundation of Truth then why do you deny it’s teaching, or is it inconvenient for you to believe in the Church that Christ created through his sacrifice and the influence of the Holy Spirit working in the Apostles.
You believe in parts of the Bible, I believe in the entire Bible and the Church that he created as commanded by Christ and the Apostles.
John 17:20 I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word.
Last but not least
**Romans 16:17-20 **I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissentions and obstacles, in oppostion to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent. For while your obedience is kown to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise as to what is good, and simple as to what is evil; then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
I know what your purpose is Cristian B and you will not fool my brothers and sisters here, they know the truth and you cannot take that away with your distorted view of the scripture. May God open your eyes and bring you to the fullness of faith so that you have peace in your heart and your soul be at ease, amen. You will be in my prayers and I hope you will be so kind as to have me in yours.
John 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
**2 Thessalonians 2:15 **Therefore, brothers, **stand firm **and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught either by and oral statement or by a letter of ours.
**1 Corinthians 11:2 ** I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.
**1 Timothy 3:15 **But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the **Pillar and Foundation **of Truth. Undeniably great is the myster of devotion.
Titus 3:1 Remind them to be under the **control of magistrates **and authorities, to be obedient, to be open to every good enterprise.
Jesus passed on to the apostles what to do and gave them authority to continue teaching and not only by what was written but what was spoken. Our church knows these things and the authority was passed on through apostolic succession see (Acts), and many of Pauls letters attest to them.
So if Paul calls the Church the Pillar and foundation of Truth then why do you deny it’s teaching, or is it inconvenient for you to believe in the Church that Christ created through his sacrifice and the influence of the Holy Spirit working in the Apostles.
You believe in parts of the Bible, I believe in the entire Bible and the Church that he created as commanded by Christ and the Apostles.
John 17:20 I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word.
Last but not least
**Romans 16:17-20 **I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissentions and obstacles, in oppostion to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent. For while your obedience is kown to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise as to what is good, and simple as to what is evil; then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
I know what your purpose is Cristian B and you will not fool my brothers and sisters here, they know the truth and you cannot take that away with your distorted view of the scripture. May God open your eyes and bring you to the fullness of faith so that you have peace in your heart and your soul be at ease, amen. You will be in my prayers and I hope you will be so kind as to have me in yours.
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DEXTRA_DOMINI
Guest
Again in Ezekiel you have misinterpreted the meaning. In the Old Testament peoples children are born or recieve during their lifetime sickness and disease, etc due to the sin their Father’s commited, he was making clear this would no longer be the case. That from this time on everyone would be held accountable for his own sin, in other words their own trials would be brought on by their own actions. This has nothing to do with original sin. I would recommend you read up on what original sin actually is so that you can better understand how it relates to scripture.
If you will look into the Catholic Faith Deeper it would help you a lot with being able to better understand the scripture. I recommend purchasing a Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church book so you can better understand the Faith.
Original Sin exist whether you are willing to except the truth or not is up to you my brother.
Have a blessed day.
If you will look into the Catholic Faith Deeper it would help you a lot with being able to better understand the scripture. I recommend purchasing a Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church book so you can better understand the Faith.
Original Sin exist whether you are willing to except the truth or not is up to you my brother.
Have a blessed day.
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fisherman_carl
Guest
For the same reason priests don’t get married. It shows that there is something greater than marriage/sex, that something is to participate in the very life of God and to do his will. In heaven there will be no marriage. Marriage is only a taste of heaven. But it is not our fulfillment. Our fulfillment can only be found in God. The only thing that really matters in this life is to fulfill God’s purpose for us. God’s purpose in Jesus the Son of God necessitated Jesus’ complete focus on doing the Father’s work.
"Jesus answered and said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also.”
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Cristian_B
Guest
Traditions can also me translated as teachings. He tells us to hold fast to the teachings he gave them through word or letters. Could you tell me one thing that is not written in the apostles’ letters, gospels, the Old Testament and that without it, I can’t achieve eternal life? I’m actually curious. If there is I want to know. If there isn’t, the traditions aren’t as useful as they seem.
I do not deny all it’s teaching. I am not Catholic because there are some “traditions” I don’t agree with, but I do not deny them all. I do not understand why and how did they change the Sabbath day, since it is not in harmony with Scripture; I don’t like the idea of submission to Rome; etc.
So you finally found out my evil plan of controlling the whole world; soon I will raise up with my army of cats and conquer country by country and finally, force everyone to wear a barbie T-shirt for the rest of their lives.
Now, seriously… this is not a war for “sheep”. I’m simply saying my opinion; aren’t you doing that as well?
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Crumpy
Guest
There are too many non-Catholic ideas to refute here. This is a Catholic forum; you are welcome here, but people should know that your comments here are from a non-Catholic perspective.
for example, Jesus was not exactly like us, because he had a divine nature as well as a human one. It is because of his divine nature that his sacrifice not not useless. No mere man could atone for the sins of the world – in case you wanted to think about the Catholic point of view.
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